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Gayle in MD
03-01-2007, 09:23 AM
I don't want to see the shooters stance, the side view of his stroke, the pocket cam shot, I want to see what he/she sees when making the shot. Best point of view they offer presently, IMO, is the overhead shot, which when watching TV matches, they seem to switch away from just at the moment when I don't want them to. Why doesn't someone make an instructional video based strictly on aiming the shot, using a camera on the head of the shooter. I'd pay plenty to buy that! Shouldn't be too hard to figure out how to do it, they're not supposed to move anything but their lower arm, anyway. You'd see exactly what the CB and OB look like at the moment of impact, the top and bottom, and the side english being used. Hey, I get excited everytime I think about having a video like that. Am I nuts, or what? /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif Don't answer that, lol.

Gayle in Md. addicted, improving, determined but still not satisfied!

randyg
03-01-2007, 09:32 AM
Great idea....SPF=randyg

Jal
03-01-2007, 10:10 AM
Well, since they already have critter-cams, all they would need to do is train a penguin to shoot.

But all seriousness aside, I have a instructional DVD with Loree Jon Jones and Jim Rempe where they do just that...a little bit anyway. (I don't mean training a penguin.) You would probably want to see much more of it than presented there, but if you're curious, I believe this (http://auctions.yahoo.com/i:POOL%20SCHOOL%20Jim%20Rempe%20and%20Loree%20Jon% 20Jones%20VHS:111799008) is it in VHS format.

(I can't duplicate a DVD, sorry.)

Jim

Gayle in MD
03-01-2007, 10:58 AM
[ QUOTE ]
<hr /></blockquote> I have a instructional DVD with Loree Jon Jones and Jim Rempe where they do just that...a little bit anyway
[ QUOTE ]
<hr /></blockquote>

You mean they're shooting with a camera on their heads? Or just more overhead shots?

Thanks,
Gayle

Jal
03-01-2007, 11:24 AM
It's a view from the shooter's perspective, but I don't think the camera is actually mounted to them. I could be wrong. (It's been a while so I'll have to take another look tonight and get back to you.) It wouldn't be your dream video, but you might find it interesting. It is, which I'm sure you've gathered if you used the link, oriented toward the beginner.

Jim

Gayle in MD
03-01-2007, 11:54 AM
Thanks. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

wolfdancer
03-01-2007, 11:57 AM
Not sure if that is the same video...but my first video had Jim and Loree Jon as the instructors....
good video... wouldn't mind seeing it again....
As for Gayle's suggestion....I'd be more interested in a side view showing the complete stroking technique....
A "pocket cam" might m\be a better way to let her see what they are seeing (in reverse)and capture the stroke/aim as well?????

Deeman3
03-01-2007, 12:33 PM
I believe a camera mounted on a cue would be of very limited value. The processing of that info may not add much. However, a fixed camera slightly above the dominant eye would be much better, maybe like a pair of "spy" glasses. It seems to me, with no math formula involved, that the steady perspective of the shooter is much better than the travelling path of the actual cue. "Do you see what I see?" singing in my very best soprano...other than Tony.

DeeMan

Jal
03-01-2007, 12:53 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> Not sure if that is the same video...but my first video had Jim and Loree Jon as the instructors....
good video... wouldn't mind seeing it again....
As for Gayle's suggestion....I'd be more interested in a side view showing the complete stroking technique....
A "pocket cam" might m\be a better way to let her see what they are seeing (in reverse)and capture the stroke/aim as well????? <hr /></blockquote>Unfortunately for Gayle, a fair amount of the video (but not the bulk of it) is about stance and stroke. And I do remember a fairly longish portion where the camera is directly behind Jim, as well as several side views (hmmm...he recalls Mr. Rempe's posterior but not Ms. Jones..) It is a good video, but I'll have to see how much of it has what Gayle is looking for.

Jim

cushioncrawler
03-01-2007, 02:56 PM
I like to watch player'z butts, from directly behind. This can be an eye-opener. At the last snooker tournament, i watched the action of the butt-hand, for the top Ozzy players. U see lots of funny stuff going down. Every player looks different. And, u can see when a player iz loozing confidence, and starts snatching and mooving etc under pressure etc -- the butt-hand action givz a good picture of a players nerves. But, dont overdo it, Security might moov in on u. madMac.

Deeman3
03-01-2007, 02:58 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cushioncrawler:</font><hr> I like to watch player'z butts, from directly behind. This can be an eye-opener. At the last snooker tournament, i watched the action of the butt-hand, for the top Ozzy players. U see lots of funny stuff going down. Every player looks different. And, u can see when a player iz loozing confidence, and starts snatching and mooving etc under pressure etc -- the butt-hand action givz a good picture of a players nerves. But, dont overdo it, Security might moov in on u. madMac. <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue"> This was a female shooter, right? /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif</font color>

DeeMan
loves Crawler's science....

cushioncrawler
03-01-2007, 03:04 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman3:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote cushioncrawler:</font><hr> I like to watch player'z butts, from directly behind. This can be an eye-opener. At the last snooker tournament, i watched the action of the butt-hand, for the top Ozzy players. U see lots of funny stuff going down. Every player looks different. And, u can see when a player iz loozing confidence, and starts snatching and mooving etc under pressure etc -- the butt-hand action givz a good picture of a players nerves. But, dont overdo it, Security might moov in on u. madMac. <hr /></blockquote> <font color="blue"> This was a female shooter, right? /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif</font color> DeeMan loves Crawler's science.... <hr /></blockquote> Often there is at least one lady player competing, butt not last year. Butt, i allwayz say, nothing would outrate nude female snooker (or pool). The trouble would be that all of the spectators would be mooving around too much. madMac.

Deeman3
03-01-2007, 03:20 PM
/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

wolfdancer
03-01-2007, 04:04 PM
even I, who never passed on a pun....wouldn't have touched that line....

Stretch
03-01-2007, 06:57 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> even I, who never passed on a pun....wouldn't have touched that line.... <hr /></blockquote>

lol, Come on, confess. You *thought about it. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif St. &gt;guilty of jumping on a set up lol&lt;

Jal
03-02-2007, 12:55 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> I don't want to see the shooters stance, the side view of his stroke, the pocket cam shot, I want to see what he/she sees when making the shot. Best point of view they offer presently, IMO, is the overhead shot, which when watching TV matches, they seem to switch away from just at the moment when I don't want them to. Why doesn't someone make an instructional video based strictly on aiming the shot, using a camera on the head of the shooter. I'd pay plenty to buy that! Shouldn't be too hard to figure out how to do it, they're not supposed to move anything but their lower arm, anyway. You'd see exactly what the CB and OB look like at the moment of impact, the top and bottom, and the side english being used. Hey, I get excited everytime I think about having a video like that. Am I nuts, or what? /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif Don't answer that, lol.

Gayle in Md. addicted, improving, determined but still not satisfied! <hr /></blockquote>Hi Gayle,

I had a chance to look at the Jones/Rempe video again. There are only about six shots where the camera is at the shooter's eye position, and they're all nearly identical except for tip location (inside english, none, and outside). And they're essentially three shots repeated twice each.

Given the steadiness of the camera, it probably isn't attached to the shooter, but it certainly looks like it's providing the shooter's eye view (perhaps he was moving his head to the side.) If they had included a lot more of these, it would be just what you're looking for I think. As it is, it would probably be misleading to recommended it for your specific purposes. But it is a well-presented beginner's video, with the caveat that a couple of the "physics" explanations are, shall we say, questionable. Their coverage of stroke and stance is more thorough than in any other video from my (limited) collection.

Hope that helps you make a decision.

Jim

Rich R.
03-02-2007, 06:39 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Why doesn't someone make an instructional video based strictly on aiming the shot, using a camera on the head of the shooter. <hr /></blockquote>
With my limited experience in photography, IMHO, a video shot with head mounted cameras could be more deceiving than you would expect.

Any camera distance from the eyes would create a distorted angle of view and you would not really be seeing what the player is seeing. To be accurate, you would have to plug the camera lenses into the eye sockets of the player, and I don't think that will happen. I'm still not sure a camera would give you an accurate view. It would be necessary to have a camera/lens combination that could, some how, duplicate the field of vision of the human eye and you would also have to do something to duplicate the binocular vision of the two human eyes being used in tandem. I'm not sure if all of this is possible or not. If possible, the equipment could be too cumbersome for a player to wear.

This is a game where fractions of an inch mean so much, accuracy is key, and I don't think you are going to get it with a camera used in this way.

As I said, this is JMO. I have no scientific evidence and limited knowledge in this area. I am just trying to identify potential problems.

In lieu of the player's view, I would like the overhead view in an instructional video, especially one talking about pattern play.

Sig
03-02-2007, 06:48 AM
I was going to say the same thing as Rich R., you're never going to see what the shooter sees. It would end up being just a visual gimmick, kind of like the pocket cam, because you'd be seeing a different angle. Also, I like seeing the stance and stroke of the top players.

Gayle in MD
03-02-2007, 09:20 AM
Thank you friend, for the up-date. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Gayle in Md.

Gayle in MD
03-02-2007, 09:25 AM
Thanks Rich, and I know you are very knowledgable in photography. I'm working on this idea with a few photographic guru's, who are friends of mine. They've come up with some pretty unique solutions. I'll let you know how things turn out. These guys think they know a way to work out the problems, all three are in video production. As my Dad always said, where there's a will... /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

thanks for your input..

Gayle in Md.

bsmutz
03-02-2007, 10:25 AM
With technology moving as fast as it is, it wouldn't surprise me if they could make a camera that would fit to a contact lens.

cushioncrawler
03-02-2007, 04:21 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> even I, who never passed on a pun....wouldn't have touched that line.... <hr /></blockquote>Woolfy -- I know what u were thinking, and i will post it for u....

Raincoats -- Will be available at the door.
Camera-men -- Preference will be given to camera-men with wildlife (nature) experience.
Chalk-Holders -- Not needed.
Squirt -- This will need to be re-defined.
Fast Larry -- Probably.
madMac.

Cornerman
03-04-2007, 08:46 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman3:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote cushioncrawler:</font><hr> I like to watch player'z butts, from directly behind. ... <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue"> This was a female shooter, right? /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif</font color>

DeeMan
<hr /></blockquote>Believe it or not... my discussions to female players and how to improve by watching others does center around watching certain areas of the top female players' anatomy. And the butt is one of them.

Maybe I'll write a book on it. Now if I only knew a publisher...

Fred &lt;~~~ maybe Playboy?