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eg8r
03-07-2007, 06:56 AM
Well, it looks like Libby might be heading for some jail time. This is a great quote from Fitzgerald... [ QUOTE ]
"The results are actually sad," Fitzgerald told reporters after the federal jury's verdict. "It's sad that we had a situation where a high-level official person who worked in the office of the vice president obstructed justice and lied under oath. We wish that it had not happened, but it did." <hr /></blockquote> If you lie under oath you need to spend some time in jail.

Here is a poor quote from a juror... [ QUOTE ]
Juror Denis Collins on Wednesday summed up the dilemma that he and his associates faced behind closed doors.

"There was a frustration that we were trying someone for telling a lie apparently about an event that never became important enough to file charges anywhere else," he said on ABC's "Good Morning America." <hr /></blockquote> Why should it matter to this guy or the rest of the jurors if there were any other charges filed. He should only be thinking about one trial and whether or not the person actually lied. I guess in the end they made the right decision.

Libby's lies never killed anyone which is very similar to the defense taken of any Dem when Clinton's lie comes up, but none of that matters, a lie is a lie is a lie. If you lie while under oath then you need to spend time in jail.

eg8r

DickLeonard
03-07-2007, 08:42 AM
Eg8r Libby just used the Ronald Reagan defense I don't remember, I don't remember, I don't remember, I don't remmber, I don't remember. Of course he didn't lie only Bill Clinton lied. And Caspar Weinberg bit the dust.####

eg8r
03-07-2007, 10:15 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Eg8r Libby just used the Ronald Reagan defense I don't remember, I don't remember, I don't remember, I don't remmber, I don't remember. <hr /></blockquote> Funny, that sounds just like the Clinton's defense.

eg8r

wolfdancer
03-07-2007, 11:06 AM
Damn Ed, you're getting real good at this. Seems now,
you're making the case that all lies lead back to Bill Clinton...somehow he has become the benchmark....it's like that "6 degrees of Kevin Bacon" thing.
Jail time?????.....we're at war....and this was a war crime. Passing secret info, that aided and abetted the enemy....
I say string him up.
But we all know....he's just "taking one for the team" He originated the leak about as much as Ollie North was the brains behind "Iran-Contra"...
We're way beyond dress stains here....In the eyes of God, a lie is a lie....down here,in our world, they are judged by their severity, and the resulting consequences.

Sid_Vicious
03-07-2007, 11:16 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> Damn Ed, you're getting real good at this. Seems now,
you're making the case that all lies lead back to Bill Clinton...somehow he has become the benchmark....it's like that "6 degrees of Kevin Bacon" thing.
Jail time?????.....we're at war....and this was a war crime. Passing secret info, that aided and abetted the enemy....
I say string him up.
But we all know....he's just "taking one for the team" He originated the leak about as much as Ollie North was the brains behind "Iran-Contra"...
We're way beyond dress stains here....In the eyes of God, a lie is a lie....down here,in our world, they are judged by their severity, and the resulting consequences.
<hr /></blockquote>

Yes, God was emphatic about a lie is a lie. Problem Bill C. had was that he didn't have a superior with pardon priveledges to bail him out when the need comes. Our country's people ought to be ashamed for the day when those in power Libby took the fall for, pardons him. Our democracy system stinks. Anyone can and will look back and say, "LOOK, Bill was a pardon nut as well." This is today folks, and if "your people" in the WH are so worthy of your moralistic views, then they should set some examples. As they say, "Two wrongs don't make a right." sid

wolfdancer
03-07-2007, 11:39 AM
with the blood of hundreds of thousands on his hands, with a nation that grows deeper in debt by the minute, with a rapid trend towards a more centralized government...I think a true conservative, Christian, Republican, would puke at the mention of GWB, or his cohort, Cheney.

Sid_Vicious
03-07-2007, 01:13 PM
It does contradict doesn't it. Conservatives in full power like they were for so long, pandering to an open border and a big government. Christians, at least professing openly, blatently lying and ignoring needs of suffering Americans. Where in the Bible does it say that any lie is ok if the believed ends, justifies the means. Kinda diminishes any idea of joining on Sunday doesn't it...sid

eg8r
03-07-2007, 01:16 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Jail time?????.....we're at war....and this was a war crime. Passing secret info, that aided and abetted the enemy....
I say string him up.
<hr /></blockquote> LOL, he was not convicted of outing "covert" Plame. He was convicted for lying. I don't think we need to just kill all US citizens that lie during a war, seems a bit drastic especially for the never-kill left.

[ QUOTE ]
In the eyes of God, a lie is a lie....down here,in our world, they are judged by their severity, and the resulting consequences. <hr /></blockquote> Not always true. If this was true and some fool believed all the lies the left has stacked against W then he would have been judged a long time ago.

eg8r

eg8r
03-07-2007, 01:25 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Problem Bill C. had was that he didn't have a superior with pardon priveledges to bail him out when the need comes. <hr /></blockquote> That was definitely a problem but I think the bigger problem was that Bill was foolish enough to think he was above lying under oath.

[ QUOTE ]
Our country's people ought to be ashamed for the day when those in power Libby took the fall for, pardons him. <hr /></blockquote> I think it is known that Cheney is the one Libby is taking the fall for (even though he is not convicted for outing anyone) and Cheney cannot pardon anyone, only W.

[ QUOTE ]
Our democracy system stinks. <hr /></blockquote> Thank goodness were are not a Democracy, otherwise things would be worse.

[ QUOTE ]
This is today folks, and if "your people" in the WH are so worthy of your moralistic views, then they should set some examples. As they say, "Two wrongs don't make a right." <hr /></blockquote> You are correct, the Conservatives in power lobbied themselves as a moral group of people and they should live up to it. However, it is hypocritical to post about two wrongs not making a right when you purposely fail to fairly impose the belief across all parties even when it does not suit you.

eg8r

eg8r
03-07-2007, 01:27 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Where in the Bible does it say that any lie is ok if the believed ends, justifies the means. <hr /></blockquote> I believe Gayle is the only person that has ever made such a preposterous suggestion.

eg8r

Gayle in MD
03-07-2007, 01:44 PM
I don't think that Libby's conviction is the end of the Valarie Plame outing. As the Special Prosecutor stated, there is now a cloud over the White House. It is very clear, that this case provides yet another disgraceful picture of how this White House operates, and points directly back to the way we were lied into an illegal, immoral war in Iraq. Those who uncover the lies of Bush and Cheney, are attacked, slandered, belittled, and/or ruined. The Vice President should be subpoenaed, sworn in, and interrogated about his obvious role in manipulating intelligence, cherry picking, and lying over and over in order to create false intelligence to support the many years old, pre9/11, Neocon quest for war with Iraq. The reason why 9/11 happened, is because this administration refused to focus on al Qaeda, belittled and pushed out, every expert who tried to get them to take al Qaeda seriously, and then used our greatest national tragedy, as a fake excuse to do as they had planned before they were ever installed in the White House.

The juror who said, "Where are the other guys, Rove, and ..." though he left out Cheney's name, no doubt, Cheney was the other of the "Guys" is the Juror who should be quoted. The case clearly points to the fact that Scooter Libby was sent on a mission to drag Joe Wilson's name through the dirt, directed into action by the very words that Cheney wrote in his own hand across the top of the Wilson op-ed, "What I didn't find in Africa" Cheney, having told lie after lie about Saddam's WMD's, in order to scare Americans into thinking that Saddam launched Mushroom Clouds would follow 9/11, set out to discredit Wilson's statements, which were true statements, as we all now know, and was completely obsessed to do so, because one of the administrations lies, about yellow cake, had been exposed. Our entire intelligence population had responded to their assertions on Iraq in disbelief, and warned them not to use the yellow cake story. They did so anyway, knowing, that they were lying. Scooter Libby deserves to go to jail, yes, but he is far from the only one in the White House who should be in a cell.


Gayle in Md.

Scooter Libby will get off light, Cheney and Bush, will rake in billions in pay offs from oil, and defence contractors, under the table, of course, our troops will continue to be slaughtered for nothing, on lies, and to line the pockets of the already rich. When Bush leaves office, we'll be burried in debt, our armed forces in shreds, our reputation in the world disgraced, our credibility destroyed, hundreds of thousands more Americans and Iraqis, dead, and the history books will tell the story of the man who should never have sat in the oval office, his lies and deciet, and the deaths and devastation he caused to America and her best and brightest.

Gayle in MD
03-07-2007, 02:16 PM
Hi Martin,
I can't remember ever reading anything that Jesus ever said about a lie, being a lie, and all lies being equal. I know that my Catholic up-bringing taught me that there are mortal sins, and venial sins. Only some religious nutcase, as Rove calls them, or some partisan neoconned idiot, could possibly believe that to say, for example, "Sorry, we can't make it to your party" would be viewed by any God as a lie equal to, say, for example, "Saddam has WMD's" or, "We're winning the War in Iraq" or "According to British Intelligence, Saddam has is re-constituting his Weapons of Mass Destruction, he has made efforts to purchase Yellow Cake from Niger." Or even, "Before 9/11, no one had ever imagined terrorists flying airplanes into buildings."

I guess those of us who didn't suspend our powers of deduction when Bush took office, know the difference between a lie that sends a country to war, and a lie that relieves one from telling a truth, that could hurt someone, more than a lie. It is never wise to judge an action, without taking into consideration the intention behind the action. Surely, if there is a God, he is wiser than that.

Gayle in Md.

Gayle in MD
03-07-2007, 02:30 PM
Martin, don't you find it also a bit hypocritical when they protest that every lie is the same, but now TORTURE, that's a different story, torture is just fine under certain circumstances.

Sid_Vicious
03-07-2007, 02:40 PM
Quite Christ-like huh. Continuing to let these things go and defend them as a professing religious person, imo, is the devil's playground, cuz those with wavering faith or none at all but thinking about it,,,it certainly casts doubt from what is written in The Word and what is condoned in reality...sid

Gayle in MD
03-07-2007, 02:44 PM
Here is a link for you Martin. I put it in my post today, but for your convenience, I thought I'd add it here. It's a good example of why Scooter Libby, Cheney, Rove, Bush Rice, built their administration on lies. Given the way they started it out, lies were thry're only option.

Love,
Gayle



http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2007/04/iraqgenerals200704

cushioncrawler
03-07-2007, 07:07 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> "..... a lie is a lie is a lie....."<hr /></blockquote>A while back i googled "lie, bible, allow" etc (or something like that), and found heaps of stuff where lies are ok. Jehovah's Witnesses allow some lies, i think the Koran, The Church, etc etc. madMac.

Qtec
03-08-2007, 01:09 AM
I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, the former chief of staff to Vice President Dick Cheney, was convicted Tuesday on three counts of perjury and a fourth count of obstruction of justice in the investigation of the leak of a CIA agent's name.

A federal jury in Washington, D.C., acquitted Libby on an additional count of lying to the FBI.




He obstructed a Nat Security investigation into the outing of a covert CIA WMD expert.
Before you say that no crime was ever committed- I will say that if no crime was committed, why was there a Nat Sec investigation?
We all know that Libby, Rove and especially Cheney were involved in the leak. GW said he would fire anyone found to be involved.
I guess he lied.
Q

Gayle in MD
03-08-2007, 01:32 AM
And the crawl line on Fox News read...

Scooter Libby acquitted of lying to the F.B.I.....

LMAO

wolfdancer
03-08-2007, 12:19 PM
If you believe as I do, that no Bush insider is even allowed to have a bowel movement, unless George authorizes it,in advance....then it is unrealistic to believe that Libby acted on his own......
it's all "black ops politics"

Gayle in MD
03-09-2007, 07:51 AM
When the prosecutor said, there was a cloud over the Vice President, that said volumes! Yet, we still have to listen to the right wing pundits, the perveyors of lies, non stop, morning to night, still insisting that Plame was not covert, in spite of all the proof, not only from our own C.I.A., but straight from the Special Prosecutors mouth! That Kate O'Beirne woman, from the right wing rag, the Weekly Standard, also owned by Rupert Murdoch, BTW, has been making all the rounds, lying about the documented evidence from the Prosecutors indictment.

It's is rather hilarious, listening to these same Republicans who insist on the theory that Clinton should have been impeached, but now the same ones are out there insisting that no crime was committed!

Talk about flip flop! Kind of disgusting, l;ike when Newt, comes out and says he was screwing his aide, while pushing investigations for Clinton's impeachment.

Seems to me we have several posters on here who tried to spread the lie that Valarie was just a secretary!

Next week, there will be some shocking revelations over all this. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif Too bad, Libby prevented the other crooks from being indicted, Rove, Bush and Vice President Cheney.



""A Classic Psy-Ops Campaign"
For more than two years it has been widely reported that the U.S. invaded Iraq because of intelligence failures. But in fact it is far more likely that the Iraq war started because of an extraordinary intelligence success—specifically, an astoundingly effective campaign of disinformation, or black propaganda, which led the White House, the Pentagon, Britain's M.I.6 intelligence service, and thousands of outlets in the American media to promote the falsehood that Saddam Hussein's nuclear-weapons program posed a grave risk to the United States.

The Bush administration made other false charges about Iraq's weapons of mass destruction (W.M.D.)—that Iraq had acquired aluminum tubes suitable for centrifuges, that Saddam was in league with al-Qaeda, that he had mobile weapons labs, and so forth. But the Niger claim, unlike other allegations, can't be dismissed as an innocent error or blamed on ambiguous data. "This wasn't an accident," says Milt Bearden, a 30-year C.I.A. veteran who was a station chief in Pakistan, Sudan, Nigeria, and Germany, and the head of the Soviet–East European division. "This wasn't 15 monkeys in a room with typewriters."

In recent months, it has emerged that the forged Niger documents went through the hands of the Italian military intelligence service, SISMI (Servizio per le Informazioni e la Sicurezza Militare), or operatives close to it, and that neoconservative policymakers helped bring them to the attention of the White House. Even after information in the Niger documents was repeatedly rejected by the C.I.A. and the State Department, hawkish neocons managed to circumvent seasoned intelligence analysts and insert the Niger claims into Bush's State of the Union address.

By the time the U.S. invaded Iraq, in March 2003, this apparent black-propaganda operation had helped convince more than 90 percent of the American people that a brutal dictator was developing W.M.D.—and had led us into war.

To trace the path of the documents from their fabrication to their inclusion in Bush's infamous speech, Vanity Fair has interviewed a number of former intelligence and military analysts who have served in the C.I.A., the State Department, the Defense Intelligence Agency (D.I.A.), and the Pentagon. Some of them refer to the Niger documents as "a disinformation operation," others as "black propaganda," "black ops," or "a classic psy-ops [psychological-operations] campaign." But whatever term they use, at least nine of these officials believe that the Niger documents were part of a covert operation to deliberately mislead the American public."

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2006/07/yellowcake200607?printable=true&amp;currentPage=all
Gayle in Md.

Bobbyrx
03-09-2007, 09:16 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, the former chief of staff to Vice President Dick Cheney, was convicted Tuesday on three counts of perjury and a fourth count of obstruction of justice in the investigation of the leak of a CIA agent's name.
<font color="blue"> The trial was about lying to a grand jury and obstruction of justice not about leaking the agent's name </font color>
A federal jury in Washington, D.C., acquitted Libby on an additional count of lying to the FBI.




He obstructed a Nat Security investigation into the outing of a covert CIA WMD expert.
Before you say that no crime was ever committed- I will say that if no crime was committed, why was there a Nat Sec investigation? <font color="blue">If a crime was committed why is Richard Armitage, who admitted leaking the name not on trial? </font color>
We all know that Libby, Rove and especially Cheney were involved in the leak. <font color="blue"> We do? Why has NO ONE been charged with leaking the name of a covert agent?? If these guys wanted to get back at someone, they could do a much better job than leaking a wife's name which was no big news anyway. Remember they are EVIL, EVIL, EVIL </font color> GW said he would fire anyone found to be involved.
I guess he lied.
Q <hr /></blockquote>

Gayle in MD
03-09-2007, 12:01 PM
[ QUOTE ]
<hr /></blockquote>
The trial was about lying to a grand jury and obstruction of justice not about leaking the agent's name The Trial was about obstruction of Justice, and lies told within the obxtruction. There is no time or number limit on charges, in the outing of a C.I.A. covert agent, which is what this trial is still about.

[ QUOTE ]
<hr /></blockquote>



If a crime was committed why is Richard Armitage, who admitted leaking the name not on trial? Because he worked a deal with the Special Prosecutors Office, just like Novak and Rove. Libby is covering up for more than one crime committed by Cheney. Libby's lies were much more necessary than what meets the eye. Who had the most to gain from forging fake documents, thereby building a case for the U.S. to invade Iraq/


[ QUOTE ]
<hr /></blockquote>



[ QUOTE ]
<hr /></blockquote>
We do? Yes, we do. Why has NO ONE been charged with leaking the name of a covert agent?? Because the Witnesses, one of which has been convicted, obstructed justice, limiting the Governments possibilities for digging further into the crime, (Bush covered up the illegal wire taps by claiming National Security, which they would have done in this case, too, if Cheney was under oath to testify, and a very hard to prove case. If these guys wanted to get back at someone, they could do a much better job than leaking a wife's name which was no big news anyway. A big enough deal for the C.I.A., to request a special prosecutor to investigate the outing of a covert, NOC agent. Getting back is just the surface, under that, is covering up, for something much worse. Cheney, didn't want Wilson poking around into the phoney Niger Documents. Remember they are EVIL, EVIL, EVIL

[ QUOTE ]
<hr /></blockquote>

wolfdancer
03-09-2007, 02:43 PM
"If these guys wanted to get back at someone, they could do a much better job than leaking a wife's name which was no big news anyway."
As a defense....this is as weak as why would the "W.H. plumbers, Liddy and Co" break into Democratic National Headquarters?
Why?....the answer is simple Nixon, now Bush....cut from the same clothe

Bobbyrx
03-10-2007, 10:01 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> If a crime was committed why is Richard Armitage, who admitted leaking the name not on trial? [b]Because he worked a deal with the Special Prosecutors Office, just like Novak and Rove.
<font color="blue">What deal? What did the presecutors get out of this deal? Armitage SAID HE WAS THE SOURCE. If she was covert, then Armitage ADMITTED TO A CRIME. Libby's perjury in no way prevents a prosecution of that crime. So if Plame was really covert, why has Armitage not been prosecuted.
</font color>

Gayle in MD
03-10-2007, 10:03 AM
You are right, there are many pertinent similarities between the two administrations, such as, illegal spying on Americans, breaking the law to intimidate whistle blowers, (remember Martha Mitchell,) using National Security as a cover up for their illegal activity, (Illegal Wire taps) intimidation of justice officials, overall, they were both crooks, and thought they were above the law. Bush, is yet another attempt at an Imperial presidency, like Nixon's. One of the Bush neocon goals, particularly of the Americna enterprise Institute, was the ability to abuse presidential power, and to remove those legislative protections, against presidential Imperialism, created post Nixon, in the interest of blocking oversight of Presidential abuse of power.

Bush, is worse than Nixon.


Gayle in Md.

Gayle in MD
03-10-2007, 10:31 AM
Hey, if you are still under the false impression, created by the vast neocon, right wing, BS press, that Valarie Plame, was not a classified, covert, pretected, Secret, NOC, C.I.A. operative, specialist on WMD, then I suggest you read up on all this on the Special Presecutors web site.

I've already answered your question before, in another thread. Just because the right wing neocons, are on the news, still insisting that no law was broken, I don't advise you take that to heart. The C.I.A., requested the investigation. Only the C.I.A. has the inside information about Valarie Plame to make the determination that her status WAS covert. The F.B.I., investigates these matters, before the Special Prosecutor is called in. There are twelve questions in the guide lines, that must all be answered YES, before any investigation goes forward. Many of the questions you ask on here, could be answered by yourself, if you weren't too lazy to research them, rather than accepting the lies that are told daily by some Republican neocons who frequent the right wing BS media programs on cable, READ FOX NEWS.


[ QUOTE ]
<hr /></blockquote>
Libby's perjury in no way prevents a prosecution of that crime. So if Plame was really covert, why has Armitage not been prosecuted.

[ QUOTE ]
<hr /></blockquote>

Because one of the criterion is that there must be intent involved. The top man at the C.I.A. doesn't know everything about every single employee, and particularly those who are in special ops. He was aware of Valarie's status. He had no motive, or intent. He does not meet the requirement. Obviously, Cheney does not fall under this category, since it has been proven that Cheney, Rove, Libby, Bush, and others in the administration, had the C.I.A. memo in their possession when they boarded AF1 together, and there was clearly a red S. in front of her name.

When the prosecutor remarked, after Libby's indictment, that there was a cloud over Cheney, his reference that Libby obstructed justice, and the jurrors stated that Libby was the "FALL GUE" what do you think that amounted to? Libby, has obstructed justice, and the investigation, which was obviously about Cheney's decision to out Valarie, in the interest of promoting his lies about yellow cake uranium being in the hands of Saddam, during this administration's cherry picking and lies which untimately fooled the whole country into supporting their reasons for going into Iraq.

Book recommendation...

The Greatest Story Ever Sold Frank Rich

Hubris David Korn and Michael Isakof

On The Brink Tyler Drumheiller

The Rise Of The Vulcans James Mann

Gayle in Md.

Bobbyrx
03-11-2007, 10:15 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Hey, if you are still under the false impression, created by the vast neocon, right wing, BS press, that Valarie Plame, was not a classified, covert, pretected, Secret, NOC, C.I.A. operative, specialist on WMD, then I suggest you read up on all this on the Special Presecutors web site. <font color="blue">NO, no ,no, I'm granting you that this is the truth. She was another fricking James Bond. </font color>

I've already answered your question before, in another thread. <font color="blue"> You have answered nothing, just post ed more of your conspiracy bs </font color> Just because the right wing neocons, are on the news, still insisting that no law was broken, I don't advise you take that to heart. <font color="blue"> I'm not. I'm with you laws were broken </font color> The C.I.A., requested the investigation. Only the C.I.A. has the inside information about Valarie Plame to make the determination that her status WAS covert. The F.B.I., investigates these matters, before the Special Prosecutor is called in. There are twelve questions in the guide lines, that must all be answered YES, before any investigation goes forward. Many of the questions you ask on here, could be answered by yourself, if you weren't too lazy to research them, <font color="blue"> your research is to read and recommend left wing books </font color> rather than accepting the lies that are told daily by some Republican neocons who frequent the right wing BS media programs on cable, READ FOX NEWS.


&lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
<hr /></blockquote>
Libby's perjury in no way prevents a prosecution of that crime. So if Plame was really covert, why has Armitage not been prosecuted.

&lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
<hr /></blockquote>

Because one of the criterion is that there must be intent involved. <font color="blue">BINGO!!! </font color> The top man at the C.I.A. doesn't know everything about every single employee, and particularly those who are in special ops. He was aware of Valarie's status. He had no motive, or intent. He does not meet the requirement. Obviously, Cheney does not fall under this category, since it has been proven that Cheney, Rove, Libby, Bush, and others in the administration, had the C.I.A. memo in their possession when they boarded AF1 together, and there was clearly a red S. in front of her name.

When the prosecutor remarked, after Libby's indictment, that there was a cloud over Cheney, his reference that Libby obstructed justice, and the jurrors stated that Libby was the "FALL GUE" what do you think that amounted to? Libby, has obstructed justice, and the investigation, which was obviously about Cheney's decision to out Valarie, in the interest of promoting his lies about yellow cake uranium being in the hands of Saddam, during this administration's cherry picking and lies which untimately fooled the whole country into supporting their reasons for going into Iraq.

Book recommendation...

The Greatest Story Ever Sold Frank Rich

Hubris David Korn and Michael Isakof

On The Brink Tyler Drumheiller

The Rise Of The Vulcans James Mann

Gayle in Md. <hr /></blockquote> <font color="blue"> Don't need left wing conspiracy theory books. You have answered nothing. Plame was covert and Armitage admitted outing her and Novak confirmed this. AND Fitzgerald knew this going in.....so he went after Libby, who was convicted of having recollections differing from some reporters whose testimony differed from each other and some whose testimony differed in the trial from when earlier questioned. Why won't they go after the real culprit(s).........either as you said earlier ...no intent or no proof.....probably both</font color>

Gayle in MD
03-11-2007, 01:05 PM
David Quo, is right wing? Bob Woodward, right wing? John Dean, right wing? The six retired Generals, every single one, Republican, life long Republicans, but for one, who never voted, either way, yet they all agree about the complete incompetence of this administration, their lies, and they're corruption. Chuck Hagle, isn't a republican? How about Spector, who thinks gonzales should be removed? Gordon Smith, one of my other heors, who speaks truth to power. I have heros on both sides, both parties. My criteron, is truth and patriotism, regardless of the party. Speaking about Neocons, does not include the entire party, but by the same token, when you compare the last Republican Majoirty's Corruption, and failure to perform over sight, out of partisanshipt, while our troops are being slaughtered in a civil war, nothing in my lifetime compares to the piss poor and corrupt behavior they displayed.

Do tell us, where you get your own info...before you attack the sources of others in your usual presumptuous style.

Did you hear what the prosecutor said, in front of the courthouse? He made it very clear, the investigation could not go forward, because Libby, obstructed justice. Also, he made reference to the cloud over Cheney, the White House. You don't have to be a brain surgeon to figure this out. And, btw, your little....
bingo on the criterion,... moot, if you think for one moment, that Dick Cheney, didn't know that Valarie was a secret, operative, and protected, and that he wasn't completely responsible for her being outed, though his efforts to discredit Wilson, then you haven't paid attention to the time line. Nobody was talking about her until he started digging around into who she was, and he continued, in spite of learning her status, which is why, the Prosecutor, all along, knew that the very first action taken, which led to her outing, began right in the Vice President's office, and also is why has he lied about this all along. He knew damn well, and she isn't the first government employee, whose career has been ruined by this administration. but, his biggest concern was that people would find out that he was involved in creating the phoney Niger documents, and the break in at the Niger Embassy in Italy, in the first place. Someday, I hope this all comes out. till then, I suggest you do some research of your own, and use a little common sense. And don forget, they started out, vigorously blocking the investigations into 9/11, even tried to cut off the funds, and deep sixing REagans, and Bush Sr.'s private papers.

One other thing, it wasn't only reporters who testified about Libby's lies, it was also people who work right in the White House.

This matter is still under investigation. You may not hear about it much in the news, but it isn't over yet. Congress will be looking into it next week, and glory HAL-LAY-LOO-YA for that! Plame will testify. Fitzgerald, will be interviewed in private. It's not over.

Gayle in Md.

Bobbyrx
03-11-2007, 09:07 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr>
Did you hear what the prosecutor said, in front of the courthouse? He made it very clear, the investigation could not go forward, because Libby, obstructed justice. <font color="blue">Why????There is no reason not to go forward. Libby was convicted of not remembering what he said and when to reporters 3 years before. There is NOTHING to stop the investigation......exept lack of intent or lack of evidence </font color> Also, he made reference to the cloud over Cheney, the White House. You don't have to be a brain surgeon to figure this out. <font color="blue"> then go after THEM or the guy who leaked the info (Armitage) </font color> And, btw, your little....
bingo on the criterion,... moot, if you think for one moment, that Dick Cheney, didn't know that Valarie was a secret, operative, and protected, and that he wasn't completely responsible for her being outed, though his efforts to discredit Wilson, then you haven't paid attention to the time line. <font color="blue">Then why waste all this time on Libby? How is outing his wife discrediting him.....If these guys are as diabolical as you say then having Libby say something off hand to a reporter is pretty tame </font color> Nobody was talking about her until he started digging around into who she was, <font color="blue">exept Who's Who in America </font color> and he continued, in spite of learning her status, which is why, the Prosecutor, all along, knew that the very first action taken, which led to her outing, began right in the Vice President's office <font color="blue"> then go after him and not Libby </font color> , and also is why has he lied about this all along. He knew damn well, and she isn't the first government employee, <font color="blue"> how is her career ruined. She and Wilson have made a career out of it (book , Vanity Fair cover) <font color="blue"> </font color> </font color> whose career has been ruined by this administration. but, his biggest concern was that people would find out that he was involved in creating the phoney Niger documents, and the break in at the Niger Embassy in Italy, in the first place. Someday, I hope this all comes out. till then, I suggest you do some research of your own, and use a little common sense. And don forget, they started out, vigorously blocking the investigations into 9/11, even tried to cut off the funds, and deep sixing REagans, and Bush Sr.'s private papers. <font color="blue">and why would they do that I hate to ask? </font color>

One other thing, it wasn't only reporters who testified about Libby's lies, it was also people who work right in the White House. <font color="blue"> so what...none of the reporters even deemed it important enough to even write it down. I couldn't even tell you where I was 3 years ago on a certain date much less who I spoke to and what I said</font color>

This matter is still under investigation. You may not hear about it much in the news, but it isn't over yet. Congress will be looking into it next week, and glory HAL-LAY-LOO-YA for that! Plame will testify. Fitzgerald, will be interviewed in private. It's not over. <font color="blue"> I would like to hear the truth also </font color>

Gayle in Md.

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Gayle in MD
03-11-2007, 09:16 PM
May I ask you a question...how old are you? Do you know what executive priveledge is? Have you ever heard of Classified? Ever heard of National Security. I think the Special Presecutor is smart enough to know that if Libby wouldn't tell the truth, there was no chance of getting the person who exposed Valarie Wilson's identity, Dick Cheney,... and ruined her career.

Now, how old are you, because I'm tired of you. You're either suffering from a dense skull, or you're under sixteen, so which is it?

Gayle in Md. Sheesh, I'm glad the subject isn't a deep one.

Bobbyrx
03-11-2007, 11:40 PM
No answers AGAIN, so lets try a little sarcasm. Typical. The Special Procecutor didn't go after Cheney because he HAD NO CASE. Period. Don't you think he's been trying to get just that over the past couple of years.. He couldn't prove intent because there was none...How does outing a covert agent discredit the validity of her husband's report?.....it doesn't...

Bobbyrx
03-11-2007, 11:58 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> May I ask you a question...how old are you? <font color="blue">51 </font color> Do you know what executive priveledge is? <font color="blue"> No, but I know what executive privilege is. The president claimed executive privilege to protect several of his advisers from testifying before the grand jury. President Clinton that is and it had very little to do with national security </font color>

Gayle in MD
03-12-2007, 11:23 AM
Did you read about what Cheney wrote, right on the top of the newpaper article by Wilson, "Did His Wife Send Him On A Junket? "Do They Usually Do this sort of thing? Cheney layed out the whole plan. Cheney, Rove, Libby, all guilty. This isn't over yet.

Plame will testify this week. You need to stay away from imbedded neocon media, and do some reading of your own. I can tell by your posts, you haven't done anything but watch Fox, and read right wing trash.

Most people in this country know that Cheney was behind the outing. If you don't, that's your problem. There is still a cloud over Cheney, as referenced by the Prosecutor. The cover up by the White House, is all about the things this bunch of neocons did to lie us into a war. Cheney's ties go straight to the breakin at the Niger Embassy, and Iraq, was planned by the Neocons all the way back to Reagans administration. George Bush was the puppet they chose. It's people who don't bother researching anything beyond sound bytes, who will be responsible for the end of democracy in this country, and they're all just like you, blind followers.



Gayle in Md.

Bobbyrx
03-12-2007, 04:32 PM
Quote Gayle:
Most people in this country know that Cheney was behind the outing. If you don't, that's your problem.

<font color="blue">Most people in this country wouldn't know Dick Cheney if they ran into him and one percent of those people might have heard of Valerie Plame much less of her 'outing'. Still no answer. Why intentionally outing Wilson's wife discredits his report. It only makes him a more sympathetic figure </font color>

Bobbyrx
03-12-2007, 04:32 PM
Quote Gayle:
Most people in this country know that Cheney was behind the outing. If you don't, that's your problem.

<font color="blue">Most people in this country wouldn't know Dick Cheney if they ran into him and one percent of those people might have heard of Valerie Plame much less of her 'outing'. Still no answer. Why intentionally outing Wilson's wife discredits his report. It only makes him a more sympathetic figure </font color>

Gayle in MD
03-13-2007, 05:50 AM
LMAO...are you over sixteen? I'll bet you aren't much over eighteen. So you think most Americans don't know Dick cheney, and only 1% know who Plame is....sounds like typical republican estimates....

Did you ever bother going to the link I provided you at the Special Prosecutors Office, at the Department Of Justice?

The outing was meant to make Joe Wilson look foolish, and discredit his credentials, and his statements, obviously. I recon having Wilson prodding around about the fake Niger Documents, was a bit un-nerveing for Cheney, also, since one of the people suspected to be involved in the break in at the Niger Embassy in Italy, is a member of The AMerican Enterprise Institute, the Neocon think tank, that created this entire ridiculous policy of pre-emptive attacks, regime change, and occupations of countries which have never attacked us here, all against former American policy, and against our former international agreements. Those who broke into the embassy took only stationary and the official mailing stamp, for the purpose of creating false documents to build a case for war in Iraq, (the neocons dream for twenty years) and the break in occuring within months of the first Bush election, by a group of thugs in Italy whose business was selling false documentation to countries to use for their own means. Guess that was all just a coincidence? No questions in my mind that this administration was involved in the entire thing, and I happen to know, that there is good reason for suppose that.

do some reading...

Gayle in Md.

Bobbyrx
03-13-2007, 02:36 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> LMAO...are you over sixteen? I'll bet you aren't much over eighteen. So you think most Americans don't know Dick cheney, and only 1% know who Plame is....sounds like typical republican estimates.... <font color="blue">Go on the streets of New York City with a picture of Dick Cheney and I guarantee half the people won't know who he is </font color>

Did you ever bother going to the link I provided you at the Special Prosecutors Office, at the Department Of Justice? <font color="blue"> yes, answers nothing as to why they did'nt go after anyone but Libby </font color>

The outing was meant to make Joe Wilson look foolish, and discredit his credentials, and his statements, obviously. <font color="blue"> How is this obvious? If they leaked that she was a hooker and had a criminal record, yeah that make him look foolish but saying she works for the CIA makes him more creditable not less </font color> I recon having Wilson prodding around about the fake Niger Documents, was a bit un-nerveing for Cheney, also, since one of the people suspected to be involved in the break in at the Niger Embassy in Italy, is a member of The AMerican Enterprise Institute, the Neocon think tank, that created this entire ridiculous policy of pre-emptive attacks, regime change, and occupations of countries which have never attacked us here, all against former American policy, and against our former international agreements. Those who broke into the embassy took only stationary and the official mailing stamp, for the purpose of creating false documents to build a case for war in Iraq, (the neocons dream for twenty years) and the break in occuring within months of the first Bush election, by a group of thugs in Italy whose business was selling false documentation to countries to use for their own means. Guess that was all just a coincidence? No questions in my mind that this administration was involved in the entire thing, and I happen to know, that there is good reason for suppose that. <font color="blue"> So the masterminds of all of this grand evil scheme, who are responsible for the deaths of thousands and trying to control the world, take away our rights and make everyone live in poverty....when they see that Wilson's report could jeopardize their entire evil plan....the best that they can come up with is Duhhhhhh....oh you can't believe him, his wife works for the CIA </font color>

do some reading... <font color="blue">I don't need to read any of your books. You give us the cliff notes version here. By the way, there and dozens of books on Kennedy assassination conspiracy theories but that doesn't make them true. Oswald did it by himself. 'Case Closed' by Gerald Posner </font color>

wolfdancer
03-13-2007, 03:12 PM
if we dismiss the idea then, that the leak had anything to do with trying to discredit Joe Wilson....it was just a conversational "slip".....and no harm, no foul? Seems to me then,Congress should stop that witch hunt, and we should get behind the movement to pardon Mr. Libby.
I also question the investigation into the firings of the U.S. Attorney's, and the once proposed idea of firing them all.....they serve at the pleasure of the President, and obviously he was displeased.
Lee Harvey killed JFK?....I thought it might have been "Jolting Joe" trying to protect Marylyn.....the shooter needed a keen eye and great reflexes....

Bobbyrx
03-14-2007, 08:27 AM
Lee Harvey killed JFK?....I thought it might have been "Jolting Joe" trying to protect Marylyn.....the shooter needed a keen eye and great reflexes.... <font color="blue"> Someone was seen on the grassy knoll with a Mr.Coffee machine /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif </font color>

wolfdancer
03-14-2007, 09:29 AM
/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif