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DeadCrab
03-07-2007, 07:49 AM
I have problems keeping my stroke in the groove when I have to take a less than perfect stance for a shot. Last time I played, I missed an easy cut shot (awkward position) where I was sure of the correct aim point, but just missed it. I reset the shot, and did it again after choking up about 6" on the cue with my back-hand, and the shot went down as expected.

Since then, I have noted that a lot of my misses occur on shots that I sink easily with a well-grounded stance and bridge, but not when I have to lean over too much, get crowded, or otherwise out of shape.

Any good techniques to employ to keep the stroke smooth in imperfect positions?

dr_dave
03-07-2007, 09:06 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DeadCrab:</font><hr> I have problems keeping my stroke in the groove when I have to take a less than perfect stance for a shot. Last time I played, I missed an easy cut shot (awkward position) where I was sure of the correct aim point, but just missed it. I reset the shot, and did it again after choking up about 6" on the cue with my back-hand, and the shot went down as expected.

Since then, I have noted that a lot of my misses occur on shots that I sink easily with a well-grounded stance and bridge, but not when I have to lean over too much, get crowded, or otherwise out of shape.

Any good techniques to employ to keep the stroke smooth in imperfect positions?<hr /></blockquote>
I think that as long as the awkward stance is not too uncomfortable, the standard stroke "best practices" (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/resources/stroke_best_practices.pdf) still apply.

Regards,
Dave

Qtec
03-07-2007, 09:50 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Here is an example set of suggested “best practices” you might consider if you are having trouble with stroke consistency or accuracy:
1. When in your stance, the cue stick should be set in the desired aiming line direction with the cue tip at the desired cue ball contact point <hr /></blockquote>

If you start aiming when you are already in your stance then you are too late. Stance is built around the cue and not vice-versa. Stance varies but the cueing line never does. Thats why it should always be the starting point.
My 2ct.
Q

Fran Crimi
03-07-2007, 10:05 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DeadCrab:</font><hr> I have problems keeping my stroke in the groove when I have to take a less than perfect stance for a shot. Last time I played, I missed an easy cut shot (awkward position) where I was sure of the correct aim point, but just missed it. I reset the shot, and did it again after choking up about 6" on the cue with my back-hand, and the shot went down as expected.

Since then, I have noted that a lot of my misses occur on shots that I sink easily with a well-grounded stance and bridge, but not when I have to lean over too much, get crowded, or otherwise out of shape.

Any good techniques to employ to keep the stroke smooth in imperfect positions?
<hr /></blockquote>

Great question.

Don't be too quick to think in terms of 'smooth' in awkward situations. Your objective in those instances is to get the ball pocketed with as little damage done as possible, so you can continue to shoot.

Here' are two suggestions:

Try shortening up your backstroke, which doesn't necessarily mean shortening your bridge length. Just take a half or a quarter of a backstroke. The forward stroke may feel a bit choppy, but that's okay.

Second choice is to put some wrist into the shot with less arm movement. You should only use this one if you are really stuck.

The key is to move your arm less, because if you're in an awkward position or off-balance, then the simple motion of your arm taking a full swing can cause your body to move as well. Once your body moves, so can your bridge hand, right as you're stroking the shot.

So, where did the name DeadCrab come from?

Fran

dr_dave
03-07-2007, 11:17 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr><blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr>Here is an example set of suggested “best practices” you might consider if you are having trouble with stroke consistency or accuracy:
1. When in your stance, the cue stick should be set in the desired aiming line direction with the cue tip at the desired cue ball contact point <hr /></blockquote>

If you start aiming when you are already in your stance then you are too late. Stance is built around the cue and not vice-versa. Stance varies but the cueing line never does. Thats why it should always be the starting point.
My 2ct.<hr /></blockquote>Q,

That's a great point. The stroke "best practices" document (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/resources/stroke_best_practices.pdf) assumes that the stance has already been formed. The document focuses on the "stroke" only, recommending only fine aim adjustments while down in the stance (see the last sentence of item 1).

Maybe we need an additional "best practices" document for "aiming and the stance." I wouldn't dare take a stab at that ... too much potential controversy, even more than with "stroke."

Thanks,
Dave

DeadCrab
03-07-2007, 12:36 PM
#######################
So, where did the name DeadCrab come from?

Fran
########################

A dead crab is a "sure thing" in gambling. It derives from a bar game played in the tropics, where a large circle is drawn on the floor or beach, and several crabs are dumped in the middle. Wagers are placed by patrons on the crab of their choice, who wile away the afternoon sipping and watching the race. However the winning crab is not the swiftest, but is the last one to crawl outside of the circle. If you know in advance that one of the contestant crabs is dead, then you have a sure winner to wager on.

The late William Murray alludes to this in his racetrack-based novel "Tip on a dead crab".

cushioncrawler
03-08-2007, 01:28 AM
Two suggestions.
1.... If u uze a big fat cue with a flat tip, u will have allmost zero worryz with any such shot.
2.... With a normal cue -- Uze a short bridge, short swing, and, after aiming, during the shot, look at the qtip and the qball only. Dont fall for the trap of looking up. madMac.

DickLeonard
03-08-2007, 05:56 AM
DeadCrab my advice would be to learn how to play opposite hand. Most great billiard and snooker players play opposite hand due to the extra length of those tables. All it takes is practicing shooting left hand on the awkward shots.####

DickLeonard
03-08-2007, 06:39 AM
DeadCrab I forgot to mention my Willie Hoppe cue has a 10 inch extension for those long shots. The snooker players have slipover extensions for the long long long shots. I forgot shooting behind your back is another option.

Most good short players had to develop stances,stretches and assorted contortions to make shots. Boston Shorty would hop up on the table to shoot. he thought one foot on the floor didn't apply to him. ####

Fran Crimi
03-08-2007, 07:45 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DeadCrab:</font><hr> #######################
So, where did the name DeadCrab come from?

Fran
########################

A dead crab is a "sure thing" in gambling. It derives from a bar game played in the tropics, where a large circle is drawn on the floor or beach, and several crabs are dumped in the middle. Wagers are placed by patrons on the crab of their choice, who wile away the afternoon sipping and watching the race. However the winning crab is not the swiftest, but is the last one to crawl outside of the circle. If you know in advance that one of the contestant crabs is dead, then you have a sure winner to wager on.

The late William Murray alludes to this in his racetrack-based novel "Tip on a dead crab".

<hr /></blockquote>

Wow, that's really interesting. I would never have figured that for a million years. Funny how the word 'dead' keeps cropping up as a synonym for 'lock'. In pool it's the 'dead nuts'. You have those---You have a lock.

Fran

Stretch
03-08-2007, 10:07 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DickLeonard:</font><hr> DeadCrab my advice would be to learn how to play opposite hand. Most great billiard and snooker players play opposite hand due to the extra length of those tables. All it takes is practicing shooting left hand on the awkward shots.#### <hr /></blockquote>

Deadcrab take that advice to the bank. After watching #### run ball after ball with one hand, then run a table opposite handed with no visible change in style or rythum i was sold. It feels wierd at first but work though that and get comfortable with those shots that come up and you'll win more games. I've been working on my lefties for a few years now and routinely take shots left handed when appropriate. I know what you mean about those awkward shots. When we miss those it's a killer.

Great advice from Fran too! St.

DickLeonard
03-08-2007, 10:40 AM
SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTeEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEETTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTC CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. Nice to read your post is the Honeymoon over yet. Alan Morris tipped us off to Snooker on Eurosport. It was the first time I ever watched a snooker match from start to finish. It is a lot different than watching Ronnie O' running 147. That definitly a much harder game for short people. We would need a telephone pole for a cue.####

bradb
03-08-2007, 01:52 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DeadCrab:</font><hr> I have problems keeping my stroke in the groove when I have to take a less than perfect stance for a shot. Last time I played, I missed an easy cut shot (awkward position) where I was sure of the correct aim point, but just missed it. I reset the shot, and did it again after choking up about 6" on the cue with my back-hand, and the shot went down as expected.

Since then, I have noted that a lot of my misses occur on shots that I sink
easily with a well-grounded stance and bridge, but not when I have to lean over too much, get crowded, or otherwise out of shape.

Any good techniques to employ to keep the stroke smooth in imperfect positions?
<hr /></blockquote>

Sounds like when you get to an awkward position you have lost your alignment. It could be sighting, is your head/shoulders still directly over the cue? If your head is even slightly off angle the shot will be off.

Some players raise their head up higher when forced closer to the ball, try sliding your arm forward to stay down.

Us ex-snooker players go to the rest anytime we find we are'nt comfortable in our stance, do you use the rest much? if not try practising with it.
Better to use the granny than to sit down and watch your opponent run out.

DeadCrab
03-08-2007, 05:45 PM
Thanks for the many insightful replies to my question. I will work on incorporating them into my game.

I am particularly intrigued by the concept of shooting with the opposite hand. I am somewhat ambidextrous to begin with. I write and use a fork left handed, but have always used my right hand for sports, and when in the Army, shot on the range right handed. My right eye is mildly dominant. Despite all this, I have been playing pool with a right hand bridge, and my left hand gripping the stick. Perhaps I have been using the wrong hand all along. I'll try switching it over for a while and see what happens.

Thanks to all who responded.

don_southwick
03-09-2007, 08:22 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DeadCrab:</font><hr> #######################
So, where did the name DeadCrab come from?

Fran
########################

A dead crab is a "sure thing" in gambling. It derives from a bar game played in the tropics, where a large circle is drawn on the floor or beach, and several crabs are dumped in the middle. Wagers are placed by patrons on the crab of their choice, who wile away the afternoon sipping and watching the race. However the winning crab is not the swiftest, but is the last one to crawl outside of the circle. If you know in advance that one of the contestant crabs is dead, then you have a sure winner to wager on.

The late William Murray alludes to this in his racetrack-based novel "Tip on a dead crab".

<hr /></blockquote>

Bummer, I thought it was a Monty Python reference.

"Studies show that three out of four Brittish housewives can't tell the difference between Whizzo Butter and a dead crab."

Bob_Jewett
03-09-2007, 11:49 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DeadCrab:</font><hr> I have problems keeping my stroke in the groove when I have to take a less than perfect stance for a shot. ... Any good techniques to employ to keep the stroke smooth in imperfect positions?
<hr /></blockquote>
As Fran said, concentrate on getting the ball into the pocket and don't worry so much about perfect position.

Do you ever practice shooting in awkward positions? As Cranfield said, "Practice your weaknesses."

Do you use the mechanical bridge? Do you practice with it? It's not pleasant, but it's often the right way to do things.

Maybe the best thing you can do for your game in general is to try to always play each shot the "right" way even if it's not the most comfortable. The right way for your game will evolve as your abilities improve.