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07-22-2002, 04:40 PM
There are enough negative threads commenting on Earl's win yesterday, so I felt like starting a positive one. After his victory, the question comes up, is Earl the greatest 9-ball player in history.

The contenders for the crown in my mind would have to be.

Earl
Buddy
Sigel
Wimpy
Mizerak
Efren
Varner
Am I forgetting anyone?

Comparing all their records it is a hard choice, but to me Earl is the best player in the best era for 9-ball. All-around I would give the title to someone else, but strictly 9-ball Earl gets my vote.

Yesterday just cemented his legacy in my mind.

Thoughts, rebutals?

Stauber

jjinfla
07-22-2002, 05:25 PM
Next Hall of Famer for sure. Jake

07-22-2002, 05:43 PM
An impressive list. But I would rate the best 9-ball player, as the one who won the most money not titles. During the 70's & the 80's, NOBODY beat Jimmy Reid for the cash. He played everyone on your list. I would like to hear their comments about Reid during that period. Jim R.

Vagabond
07-22-2002, 06:44 PM
Howdy Jim!,
Good to hear from u on CCB.Two months ago in BCA`s pro 9 ball in Vegas Jimmy Reed was placed very high ( 5th ?) and he beat Mika Immonen.
By the way the list should include Johny Archer. cheers
Vagabond

07-22-2002, 06:55 PM
Maybe you should stick Steve Davis in there, just for comedy value. The Miz gets my vote. I don't think money is the only way to judge a player. Mizerak showed an unbelievable technical ability that might not have always won him matches, but makes him undeniably special.

Q-guy
07-22-2002, 07:12 PM
Is this Jimmy Reid? If so would how would you rate Mike Caralla? I know he never won anything, but he was the best 9 ball player I ever saw.

07-22-2002, 07:19 PM
C'mon everyone knows that. No one else but Efren Reyes has even come close.

07-22-2002, 07:21 PM
I don't know, I kinda have to go with Efren on this one.

Q-guy
07-22-2002, 07:42 PM
I would put Sigel ahead of Earl. Earl has an amazing high gear when it's working, but Sigel is a more consistent player. I am talking when he was playing. I have even seen them gamble together and Earl could not get there.

07-22-2002, 07:55 PM
No I'm not Jimmy Reid, but I wish I could play like him. I've known Jimmy for 40 years. No player has ever impressed me like him. Jim R.

07-22-2002, 08:00 PM
Hey there Vagabond, Have you checked out Jimmy's "Members Only" area of his site. There's some good etuff there. Jim R.

07-22-2002, 09:28 PM
If never being beaten for the cash is the criteria, that would be Buddy Hall's credential as well as Jimmy's. I've often heard that Buddy never was beaten in a money match, and Grady Matthews mentioned that fact in a '93 Accustat-taped match he was doing commentary on with Buddy.

Kato
07-22-2002, 09:34 PM
Post deleted by Kato

07-22-2002, 09:36 PM
Hey Kato!
If I'm gonna die, I think I'd rather go in the saddle than with my boots on! LOL

PQQLK9
07-22-2002, 09:40 PM
WHEN I DIE I WANT TO GO IN MY SLEEP LIKE MY GRANDFATHER...NOT SCREAMING IN HORROR LIKE THE PASSENGERS IN HIS CAR...

07-22-2002, 10:18 PM
Earl Strickland is definitely the gr8est nine ball player ever. I hope that he wins the US Open again as well. Congratulations Earl! Stedyfred

07-22-2002, 10:48 PM
OK, let's talk about the 70's and 80's. First, let's eliminate all the players who did drugs. Now tell us who was the best player back then.

Fran

Voodoo Daddy
07-22-2002, 10:49 PM
Mizerak, Sigel and Varner won the titles, Buddy and Jimmy won the money, Efren did both. Luther Lassiter was without question on this list {from the old school "push-out" days}...but on the top of the list, IMO is Earl. Longevity folks...he has been winning tournaments for what seems forever. What about Allan Hopkins or Wade Crane?...just my 2 cents...

Q-guy
07-23-2002, 12:13 AM
Unlike someone like Strickland or Sigel, Toby is not really a public figure. I don't know if he would like being discussed. I can't really comment.

07-23-2002, 01:05 AM
Supposedly, Wimpy himself said that Buddy Hall was untouchable in extended play. Buddy in his prime beat all of the notable players.

In my opinion, you cannot possible say that Earl is the best based on his performance in this tournament. Even Efren has beat him twice in the two "Color of Money" matches. Hell, I beat John Braumback (sp?) a seasoned pro, 15 games to 10. I would not say that I was a better player, but on that day, I came out ahead.

It's funny, but I watched Early play Jose Parica and lose 11 to 0. Earl missed several relatively easy shots. The "high speed wobles" can happen to anybody.

Oh well...who knows who was the "alltime best"?? I think that during periodes of time, there were several "bests". Certainly, Earl, Busta, Strickland, Buddy, Archer, Mosconi, Parica, Varner, etc...have all had their years? The only way to really tell is have races to 100. When anyone of these guys can run 7 racks in a row, a race to even 17 seems relatively short.

Regards,

Doug

07-23-2002, 01:09 AM
Again, it is my understanding that Buddy beat Reid almost every time they played during this period of time. At least that is what is portrayed in "From Rags to Rifleman" in Buddy Halls biography.

regards,

doug

Tommy_Davidson
07-23-2002, 01:28 AM
> If you ask Buddy,he will tell you that Wimpy was the greatest 9-ball player ever,even better than Sigel,who Buddy claims is the best player he's ever had to deal with. Buddy went on to say that by the time he got to play Wimpy regularly,he was "an old man",and was past it,which is why he says that Sigel is the best he's ever played with any regularity. Buddy would know for sure. My opinion is in 100% alignment with Buddy,Sigel is the man. True,he didn't win 6 World 9-ball titles,or 5 U.S. Opens,but he won 3 U.S.Opens,4 if you count the 14.1,and 4 World 14.1 titles,along with 94 other major titles,leaving him with 102. Mike was also practically unbeatable in the finals of ANY tournament,not just televised events,and was even more of a force in those. His record in finals play is astronomical,102-25 or something like that. In his prime,Sigel just never made mistakes,or made one then recovered so well it was hard to tell what he did wrong. Earl's highest gear may be a little more overwhelming,but Mike was nearly always in his highest gear,perfect position and according to Buddy,the sports best shotmaking. Tommy D.

Doomsday Machine
07-23-2002, 05:33 AM
Not sure if Jimmy Reid ever played Toby Sweet for the cash in the 70's or 80's, but I would take Toby over him every day of the week, even today!! Toby gave Mizerak the 7 on Miz's home table for $200 a game and was 20 games ($4,000) ahead after about 12 hours of play when Miz quit around 1976. Toby had the best cue ball control I have ever witnessed and if his vision did not fail at such a rapid rate he would still be a handfull for almost any player today. I watched him beat Ortmann 9-7 several years ago and Ortmann couldn't believe that he lost to a guy that looked about 60 years old, 5' 7" & 120 lbs. soaking wet, with bad eyesight and looked like a hobo that just wandered in off the street. Will NEVER forget the look on Ortmann's face after that match.

Doomsday Machine
07-23-2002, 05:38 AM
Toby Sweet in his prime would give ANYONE on this list serious problems !! I don't think that anyone wanted to play him for the cash even up, especially not on neutral turf, or God forbid, Toby's regular table.

Lester
07-23-2002, 05:43 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Tommy_Davidson:</font><hr> &gt; If you ask Buddy,he will tell you that Wimpy was the greatest 9-ball player ever,even better than Sigel,who Buddy claims is the best player he's ever had to deal with.


&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;Tommy, Capt. Hook remains the benchmark that all 9ball players strive to emulate. He was always "on", and if you were lucky enough to make it to the finals with him, it was like standing in front of a runaway train. Earl is not better or worse than Mike, just different. They are both awesome. JMHO ****Lester****

07-23-2002, 06:29 AM
Efren is definitely the greatest and even most of the professional players would agree that he is the best player in this planet to ever handle a cue stick! Take a look at the tournament player's profile on the World Pool Championships and you'll see that their idol is none other than the Magician from the Philippines. A real champion and a great player should both have the skills and PERSONALITY.
Earl the Bigot has some of the first but none of the last one, he is no match with Efren! Take a look at their head to head matches and the unshining Pearl is totally humbled.

socrates
07-23-2002, 06:43 AM
With 100 titles I would have to say the Siegel has to be one of the best players from the 70's and 80's.

07-23-2002, 06:44 AM
I'm sorry but I'm not familiar with Wimpy! All I know is that Efren Reyes is the most popular pool player of this generation. Even his co-players have a lot of respect and praises for the Magician. His head to head records with his co-players favor the living legend from the Philippines...

He was really the one who introduced those safeties and kicks! His magical shots and tricks totally excites the audience! These are just some of which separate Bata from the rest.

Efren is definitely the greatest and even most of the professional players would agree that he is the best player in this planet to ever handle a cue stick! Take a look at the tournament player's profile on the World Pool Championships and you'll see that their idol is none other than the Magician from the Philippines. A real champion and a great player should both have the skills and PERSONALITY.
Earl the Bigot has some of the first but none of the last one, he is no match with Efren! Take a look at their head to head matches and the unshining Pearl is totally humbled.

Kato
07-23-2002, 07:05 AM
I understand. I didn't know if I could go there, guess not, shoulda PM'd ya to find out. My apologies.

Kato

MikeM
07-23-2002, 07:37 AM
Is this a morality poll or a poll about the best pool players? And could you define drugs?

MM

Voodoo Daddy
07-23-2002, 10:28 AM
Playing Toby Sweet on his home table was indeed certain failure!! I watched him play for all of his "blind years" and after his eye surgery as well. He is/was a tough cutomer....

07-23-2002, 10:45 AM
Doomsday,

I've never heard of Toby Sweet. Although, this is not the first time that there are relatively unknown players that play top notch. I think also that Sailor (Racine Wisconsin) is supposed to be a wizard at straightpool. Harold Worst was supposed to be great until his premature death. Did Toby every play and win any tournaments, or was he primarily a road player? Just curious.

Regards,

Doug

07-23-2002, 11:09 AM
There are so many factors that come into play dealing with in trying to guess who is the best. Who broke the best? Safties or kicks? Best cue ball position, etc... Overall, Earl excels in all of these, and is probably the best jumper as well (or it's Sammy Jones). It's hard to compare with guys like Whimpy, because of the different equipment, playing conditions, etc. If you had to ask me though, my money's on Sigel. I don't know if he would be considered the best 9 ball player, but he was the most amazing shot maker that I ever saw. But then again, Earl himself was quoted in Billiard Digest as saying that "Efren was the greatest that I've ever seen. He puts the fear in me more than any other player". Ugh. Now I'm confused. I can't make up my mind now. LOL.

Cueless Joey
07-23-2002, 11:25 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: darshan27:</font><hr> There are so many factors that come into play dealing with in trying to guess who is the best. Who broke the best? Safties or kicks? Best cue ball position, etc... Overall, Earl excels in all of these, and is probably the best jumper as well (or it's Sammy Jones). It's hard to compare with guys like Whimpy, because of the different equipment, playing conditions, etc. If you had to ask me though, my money's on Sigel. I don't know if he would be considered the best 9 ball player, but he was the most amazing shot maker that I ever saw. But then again, Earl himself was quoted in Billiard Digest as saying that "Efren was the greatest that I've ever seen. He puts the fear in me more than any other player". Ugh. Now I'm confused. I can't make up my mind now. LOL. <hr></blockquote>........
If someone HAD to play for your life, race to 50, who'd you want to play for your life now? LOL

07-23-2002, 12:35 PM
If I had that kind of situation thrown at me, my choice would be Efren or Don Willis. The Color Of Money race to 120 matches were awesome (I have the tape that covers the last matches). And according to guys like Varner, Hall and Wimpy himself, no one could beat Willis in extended races in 9 ball. Wimpy, Mosconi, Balsis and Greenleaf all fell to him in extended 9 ball races. This info came from Lassiter himself, who was at one time Willis' road partner.

Ross
07-23-2002, 03:14 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Cueless Joey:</font><hr>
If someone HAD to play for your life, race to 50, who'd you want to play for your life now? LOL <hr></blockquote>

Charlie Williams without a shot clock. That way I would know I would have quite a while to live!

DEADSTOKE32
07-23-2002, 03:15 PM
WELL SOME PEOPLE MY FEEL HE IS.BUT CRAZE PEOPLE HAVE THE THE RIGHT 2 PICK WHO THAY LIKE OVER OTHER'S.
BUT I FEEL THAT "REYES".IS A BETTER SHOTMAKER AND PLAYER.POUND 4 POUND .HE HAS A LOT OF FIRE POWER IN THAT $20 DOLLAR CUE ..IN TOURMENT OR FOR THE CASH HE THE MAN 2 BEAT............

Scott Lee
07-24-2002, 12:48 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Lorri:</font><hr> Hey Kato!
If I'm gonna die, I think I'd rather go in the saddle than with my boots on! LOL <hr></blockquote>

Lorri...AMEN, cutie!...the ONLY way to GO! LOL

Scott

Voodoo Daddy
07-25-2002, 01:45 AM
Lester, I remember the '89 US Open when Varner played Sigel in a late bracket match. It was 10-10, both men played their hearts out and Nick had a tricky lil shot in the side to cinch the match. He speared it in the point of the side pocket, the balls went flying around the table freezing up 4" from the Brunswick at such an angle that is didnt go no matter what. Sigel went ballistic, firing the balls around the table and leaving Nick a winning shot. BTW, Nick won that year. Moral of the story...you can be on and lose, but when its your turn to win can you? IMO, Sigel was "on" about 80% of the time, pretty strong player he was.

Cueless Joey
07-25-2002, 01:54 AM
That sounds like deja vu to me. I have a video of a Varner- Sigel match at the Bicycle Open. Varner missed the winning 9 ball at the side pocket and freezes both balls. Sigel whacked at it and jumped the ball. Sigel shakes Varner's hands after that.
Funny video cuz Buddy Hall says Sigel just switched his listening man in the audience. I didn't know Sigel liked talking to the audience while he played. They also mentioned Sigel hadn't won a tourney in two years.
Joey~Never learned not to take a nap so you can sleep early~

07-30-2002, 10:50 AM
why is it you always refer to drugs to the older players. I'm sure even today those plyers who did or did not use can still will!And further more what business is it of yours to imply anything other than drugs?

Q-guy
07-30-2002, 09:11 PM
Am I just tired or does this post make no sense at all?

07-31-2002, 02:36 AM
I believe you may just be tired. I think I understand the point of the post. It did take a careful reread for me though.

Rob

jjinfla
07-31-2002, 05:00 AM
I guess you don't like living then because the last time CW played Earl, CW was up 4-0 and lost 7-5. Jake

jjinfla
07-31-2002, 05:08 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Lorri:</font><hr> Hey Kato!
If I'm gonna die, I think I'd rather go in the saddle than with my boots on! LOL <hr></blockquote>

Gee Lorri, Is that outside pool where you ride a horse? Must be a new version of pool played by cowboys? Jake

SPetty
07-31-2002, 07:22 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Q-guy:</font><hr> Am I just tired or does this post make no sense at all? <hr></blockquote>Hi Q-guy,

hahahaha - I just assumed the poster was on drugs - PUI (Posting Under the Influence)! - and disregarded it.

SPetty~~~apologies to Wally...