PDA

View Full Version : BASIC POOL KNOWLEDGE



BLACKHEART
03-16-2007, 02:47 AM
For years I have tried to impress upon my teams, that there are certan unbreakable rules of pool. If you observe these rules, you will improve & will prevail at pool.

1) If you don't make this ball, you don't get to shoot, the next ball.(in other words, concentrate on making the ball you are shooting at).

2) If you can see a ball, you must hit that ball, rather than kick for a ball, you might have a chance to make. (When you kick for a ball 3 things can happen. You hit the ball & have no 2nd shot. You miss the ball & give the opponent ball in hand. You hit the ball & make it AND follow it in to the ppocket & scratch).

3) If the saftey is as hard as the shot .....TAKE THE SHOT.

4) As a rule only take combination shots, when you have to. If you absolutly have no other shot ....TAKE THIS SHOT EARLY IN THE GAME, so that you know where the middle ball ends up.

5) Bank shots are for dumbies. Even the best of players only make a small percentage of banks. You who only attempt 1 or 2 a game, have little or no chance of making this shot....& you will not be able to predict the position of the Qball after the shot.

6) THE MOST IMPORTANT RULE OF POOL IS, KNOW WHERE THE QBALL WILL GO AFTER YOU MAKE THE SHOT.

After 51 years of playing this game, how far off am I, in my approch to coaching my players?...JER

Cornerman
03-16-2007, 06:37 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BLACKHEART:</font><hr> After 51 years of playing this game, how far off am I, in my approch to coaching my players?...JER <hr /></blockquote>It all depends on what you're expectations are from your players. Most of your advice is excellent for everyone. Some of it is really geared towards players who don't have a level of game that necessitates anything more than your advice.

As a generalization to all coaches and instructors, I think it's important that the coachee/student understands that what you're telling them is specific to their level of play or specific to the game their playing.

In other words, the rules aren't unbreakable for everyone.

Fred

Deeman3
03-16-2007, 07:41 AM
JER,

I think your rules do make good sense and, in many cases, are strategy that will help. After 54 years, I think of pool as a situational game of percentages where you make certain selections based on many factors. I nine ball, as this advice seems most appropriate here, I even disagree with the old adage of "Play the Table". Now, in straight pool and in some games, that may be more effective. (My choice in straight pool is to get on the phone before each shot with Dick Leonard and ask! /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif Really...

I think you consider your REAL percentage of succes and if you know your opponent's capabilities, especialy in return safeties, thin cuts, banks, etc. you may make a different selection in your shot. I play players each week who can get out form anywhere if there are not balls to move, some are good movers but weak in normal pattern play or have little confidence in a bank. Do I ever leave myself a bank? Yes, but not often. Is it a good strategy? Only when ball placement does not allow me to move the ball that does not have a direct pocket, the only possible shot is a bank (a safety is not apparent)or I have the above situation and shoot a bank that eventual cue ball position leaves my opponent a shot I feel he is not going to make (or understand a good safety).

Rule 6 is the most important after pocketing the ball....

My feelings on this whole beautiful game are that some people are blessed with natural skills AND the ability to PAY ATTENTION to the smallest details others think are not importnat and lastly, overcoming your biggest enemy, your own Ego.

Dick tells us he became a Player by simply playing and watching other good, then great players. He obviously has/had a much higher level of attention to detail than 99% of the people on earth plus some God given talent as well. I've said before, If Dick tells me to rub peanut butter on my shaft, I'm running out and buying a jar! That's what I think of his game, experiece and knowledge.

You rules are great but if you have to be taught most of them, you're probably gonna struggle with this game a long time. By the way, I know you are a killer shooter but I'm talking of typical players in this instance.

DeeMan

Billy_Bob
03-16-2007, 08:17 AM
Very good advice!

I like your rule about avoiding banking and along with that, leaving the cue ball for your next shot. Of course if you can learn to leave the cue ball for your next shot, then you will not need to bank it!

I have a few of my own...

What goes forward will hit the rail and come back! (Many times sending the cue ball forward to hit the rail and come back is a better option than attempting a draw shot.)

Always cut instead of banking if you have the option.

Where will the cue ball go after this shot?

What is your next shot after this shot? Where do you want to leave the cue ball after this shot?

Shoot the ball into the corner instead of the side if you have the option.

Cydpkt
03-16-2007, 08:34 AM
I am by no means a pro or named player but a couple of thoughts come to mind:

KISS = Keep It Simple Stupid. Move the cue ball as little as possible and you will keep your self out of trouble.

There are good shooters and hard shooters but there aren't any good hard shooters. (pocket speed) Apply speed only if the shot requires it for shape.

Thanks for the words of wisdom.

SpiderMan
03-16-2007, 09:46 AM
If the players you are coaching are APA skill levels 5 or below, nothing in these guidelines sounds unreasonable.

Intermediate-skilled players, say APA 6 and above, plus others who aspire to improve, should probably be stretching a little more.

For example, I expect an intermediate-skilled player to recognize that he is playing every ball on the table with each shot, and therefore be cognizant of controlling the relative positions of the CB and intermediate ball in a combo, such that he sets up his next shot (or has insurance).

An intermediate player (as I've defined him, some would call him a "good B") should make a majority of his cross-table banks that fall within zero to two diamonds (excluding passovers), and have some simultaneous control of position.

SpiderMan

Ralph S.
03-16-2007, 10:44 AM
Your set of rules seem very reasonable, yet unfortunately, I think every team captain has run into this problem at one time or another. Simplicity is usually the best and safest route to go. The only draw back is that at times, myself included, a player will occasionally become over confident and throw simplicity out the window. This is when the bad stuff happens.

Bob_Jewett
03-16-2007, 11:09 AM
&gt; 5) Bank shots are for dumbies.

I think this is one of the rules that Fred was luke warm on. Me too. I think for beginners who are willing to take advice, bank shots in the right situation are a good way to learn both strategy and banking. When I was just learning to play, I often found myself with the cue ball on the foot rail and the nine ball by the side rail with a more or less straight bank cross-side. My draw and speed were good enough that I could usually leave the cue ball back on the foot rail and the nine would be in the open ocean if I missed. This is a strategy that worked against people of my own speed.

Lately I don't leave myself that way on the nine as frequently, but I still use the shot.

&gt; 6) THE MOST IMPORTANT RULE OF POOL IS, KNOW WHERE THE QBALL WILL GO
&gt; AFTER YOU MAKE THE SHOT.

I agree with this one, and the majority of drills I design are to gain control of the cue ball.

dr_dave
03-16-2007, 11:41 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BLACKHEART:</font><hr>6) THE MOST IMPORTANT RULE OF POOL IS, KNOW WHERE THE QBALL WILL GO AFTER YOU MAKE THE SHOT.<hr /></blockquote>Agreed. See where the CB goes (http://www.billiardsdigest.com/ccboard/showthreaded.php?Cat=&amp;Board=ccb&amp;Number=234071&amp;page =0&amp;view=&amp;sb=&amp;o=&amp;fpart=&amp;vc=) for resources and techniques.

Good list,
Dave

jjinfla
03-16-2007, 12:19 PM
Jer, Looking at those rules, to you they most likely seem like just common sense and intuitively clear to the most casual observer.

Unfortunately you do mention that you have been playing for 51 years. Now during which one of those years did these rules jump into your mind? (I hope not year #51) That is the rub. It does take an awful lot of "table time", not "chair time" or "computer time" before these rules do come to realization.

As simple and straightforward as they all seem to you now they really most likely make no sense to someone who has been playing for less than 4 years. Maybe longer in some cases.

Not all banks are dumb. Some are pretty simple and are a must to know to get shape on the next shot. I suppose you will learn that in year #52. Sorry, I just couldn't resist.
Jake

wolfdancer
03-16-2007, 12:41 PM
Jer,excellent ideas, and while I think they would be geared to
"B" and below, certainly worth reviewing by many players.
Rule #1....I do just the opposite sometimes....play good position for the next shot, and miss the shot at hand.
Rule #3....most league players, seem to avoid safeties at all costs....guy on the other team last week, pulled me aside and said how my teammate's **** safety in the first game, had ruined the rest of the games for him. then the other nite, another teammate remarks..."I know I should play safe here, but that ain't me"
Rule #4....there's a combo that comes up a lot...two balls near the side rail, not quite straight in to the corner pocket, and the C.B. in line with the shot. The first ball hit usually ends up on the end rail, with a cut that only Efran could make, and only Deeman would try to....good idea to have a couple alt shots left on the table.
Rule #5....I have my own thoughts on this.....amongst marginal players there seems to be an imaginary cut/bank line....somewhere around 35" ( where's the degree sign on this keyboard?)
Now if you cut it and miss you look bad, but bank it and come close....you look pretty good.....therefore....the off angle bank is now "on"
Rule #6....it's been said before in different ways....but I think until you reach the "B" level, you're more concerned about where the O.B. is heading, and less concerned about where the C. B. will end up.
There is one "safety" that I see newer players employ...and wonder why.....they make one of their last couple of balls, while calling safe. In chess, it would be like taking your knight, or bishop, off the table....weakening your own position.
In the last few weeks, from watching others play....I decided I sometimes repeat their mistakes....I crowd the cueball...get over it instead of behind it, I don't "steer" the ball anymore...but a too soft stroke seems to push the ball off line....and my really big error....not enough side bend.......I still blame Mosconi's little book for that....some 20 yrs later.
Now if I could only figure out which Wolfdancer, would be showing up for tonite's league, or tournament play.....the one that can run 3 balls....or.....

Stretch
03-16-2007, 12:44 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BLACKHEART:</font><hr> For years I have tried to impress upon my teams, that there are certan unbreakable rules of pool. If you observe these rules, you will improve &amp; will prevail at pool.

1) If you don't make this ball, you don't get to shoot, the next ball.(in other words, concentrate on making the ball you are shooting at).

2) If you can see a ball, you must hit that ball, rather than kick for a ball, you might have a chance to make. (When you kick for a ball 3 things can happen. You hit the ball &amp; have no 2nd shot. You miss the ball &amp; give the opponent ball in hand. You hit the ball &amp; make it AND follow it in to the ppocket &amp; scratch).

[ QUOTE ]
<hr /></blockquote> 3) If the saftey is as hard as the shot .....TAKE THE SHOT. [ QUOTE ]
<hr /></blockquote>


...And if a lock up safe is easier than the shot? God that kills me when i see those ones passed up. Especialy since he usually dosn't runnout anyway. ARG! Get that ball in hand! St. " BIH is my favorite shot" /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

4) As a rule only take combination shots, when you have to. If you absolutly have no other shot ....TAKE THIS SHOT EARLY IN THE GAME, so that you know where the middle ball ends up.

5) Bank shots are for dumbies. Even the best of players only make a small percentage of banks. You who only attempt 1 or 2 a game, have little or no chance of making this shot....&amp; you will not be able to predict the position of the Qball after the shot.

6) THE MOST IMPORTANT RULE OF POOL IS, KNOW WHERE THE QBALL WILL GO AFTER YOU MAKE THE SHOT.

After 51 years of playing this game, how far off am I, in my approch to coaching my players?...JER <hr /></blockquote>

dave
03-16-2007, 01:11 PM
I would add two things:

1. In 8 ball take the time to look over, and select the correct group of balls before shooting. I see so many games lost, not because of poor skills, but rather poor decision making.

2. In planning your run, select the right shot, not the easiest shot. Too many runs are halted because the player selects the easiest ball in front of their face in order to avoid an embarassing miss.

Jal
03-16-2007, 01:12 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BLACKHEART:</font><hr>...
1) If you don't make this ball, you don't get to shoot, the next ball.(in other words, concentrate on making the ball you are shooting at).<hr /></blockquote>In my opinion, this is the most important rule, especially since it's one that we tend to forget.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BLACKHEART:</font><hr>...
5) Bank shots are for dumbies. Even the best of players only make a small percentage of banks. You who only attempt 1 or 2 a game, have little or no chance of making this shot....&amp; you will not be able to predict the position of the Qball after the shot.<hr /></blockquote>I think that many banks are easier than many cut shots and that positioning the cueball follows the same laws as with any other shot. But from what I've read, Mosconi would have agreed with you.

Jim

Deeman3
03-16-2007, 01:17 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Billy_Bob:</font><hr> Always cut instead of banking if you have the option.

<hr /></blockquote>

Always is a strong woord, even when we are talking nine ball. Maybe I humbly submit that I'll play anyone, ANYONE who always uses that truth in Banks or One Pocket any time. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif


DeeMan
DeeMan he's gotta have an angle.....

BLACKHEART
03-16-2007, 01:43 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote jjinfla:</font><hr> Jer, Looking at those rules, to you they most likely seem like just common sense and intuitively clear to the most casual observer.

Unfortunately you do mention that you have been playing for 51 years. Now during which one of those years did these rules jump into your mind? (I hope not year #51) That is the rub. It does take an awful lot of "table time", not "chair time" or "computer time" before these rules do come to realization.

As simple and straightforward as they all seem to you now they really most likely make no sense to someone who has been playing for less than 4 years. Maybe longer in some cases.

Not all banks are dumb. Some are pretty simple and are a must to know to get shape on the next shot. I suppose you will learn that in year #52. Sorry, I just couldn't resist.
Jake <hr /></blockquote>

Hi Jake these are 3-4&amp;5 APA players. taking a bank shot, when the reason is "I knew I wasn't going to get shape on the 8, but I just couldn't resist that bank". At some point you have to stop thinking about MAKING BALLS &amp; think about WINNING THE GAME. They are not the same. I grew up in a pool hall, during my high school years. 2 hours before school, 1/2 hour at lunch, 2 hours after school &amp; as soon as I got a car, I was there after supper. I learned these rules &amp; position play by my second year...JER

jjinfla
03-16-2007, 04:50 PM
Jer, I have come to the realization that most weak players bank for the simple reason that they just do not realize how easy the cut is. They look the cut and think it is impossible. They just do not have the confidence to try the cut. When in fact the cut can be made 100% of the time while the bank maybe 70%, or less.

Just take one of your players and set up a cut and ask them what they think about their chances of making it. Keep increasing the angle and see what they say. At some point they just say that is impossible to cut and will automatically bank it when in reality it is a relatively easy cut shot.

Jake

cushioncrawler
03-16-2007, 05:06 PM
What about...
.... When u first enter the bar, buy the biggest guy there a free beer.
..... Park your car facing the carpark exit. madMac.

cushioncrawler
03-16-2007, 05:13 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote jjinfla:</font><hr> Jer, I have come to the realization that most weak players bank for the simple reason that they just do not realize how easy the cut is. They look the cut and think it is impossible. They just do not have the confidence to try the cut. When in fact the cut can be made 100% of the time while the bank maybe 70%, or less. Just take one of your players and set up a cut and ask them what they think about their chances of making it. Keep increasing the angle and see what they say. At some point they just say that is impossible to cut and will automatically bank it when in reality it is a relatively easy cut shot. Jake <hr /></blockquote> I agree. I guess that maths sez that a thin cut-shot is more difficult than a thicker cut, but in reality it aint. Dont know why. madMac.

Qtec
03-16-2007, 10:34 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Hi Jake these are 3-4&amp;5 APA players. <hr /></blockquote>

BLACKHEART, you have hit on one of the problems about giving advice on forums- you have to be specific.
You are giving good advice to APA 4/5 level players on how to win more matches. For more experienced/better players , I could argue that these rules don't apply or are insufficient for those players trying to improve their game in the long term.

ie,
[ QUOTE ]
1) If you don't make this ball, you don't get to shoot, the next ball.(in other words, concentrate on making the ball you are shooting at).
<font color="blue"> Good advice for all players. </font color>
2) If you can see a ball, you must hit that ball, rather than kick for a ball, you might have a chance to make. (When you kick for a ball 3 things can happen. You hit the ball &amp; have no 2nd shot. You miss the ball &amp; give the opponent ball in hand. You hit the ball &amp; make it AND follow it in to the ppocket &amp; scratch). <font color="blue"> Sometimes the best shot is the kick. </font color>

3) If the saftey is as hard as the shot .....TAKE THE SHOT. <font color="blue"> I agree.
There is nothing worse than losing on safety when you could have made the ball. Better to go with a bang than a whimper!</font color>
4) As a rule only take combination shots, when you have to. If you absolutly have no other shot ....TAKE THIS SHOT EARLY IN THE GAME, so that you know where the middle ball ends up. <font color="blue"> Combination shots become much simpler when you are close with the QB and its a straight shot. </font color>

5) Bank shots are for dumbies. Even the best of players only make a small percentage of banks. You who only attempt 1 or 2 a game, have little or no chance of making this shot....&amp; you will not be able to predict the position of the Qball after the shot. <font color="blue"> Personally , IMO, banking is an integral part of the game. Players should be looking for set/simple/standard bank shots, not avoiding them.
Too often I see players try to move an 8B when its an easy bank- IF you can get the QB in the right position.</font color>

6) THE MOST IMPORTANT RULE OF POOL IS, KNOW WHERE THE QBALL WILL GO AFTER YOU MAKE THE SHOT.
<hr /></blockquote>

If you don't know where the QB is going, you will always be average. Its the most basic requirment for all games.[ snooker, 3-cush etc. Its really lesson 101.

IMO, there are two paths.
One path involves losing a lot, but playing the right way in order to be a better player IN THE LONG RUN[ not shouting]
Or, playing to win by refusing difficult shots and winning more games IN THE SHORT TERM but ultimately ensuring you will never be a top player.




One day a 13 year old kid came up to me and asked me if I would train him.
To cut a long story short,after months of traing he entered his first tournament.
I told him that he could play any way he wanted to. Go for a ball, play safe , whatever. The only thing I demanded from him was that he play every shot in a positive manner.

Thats what its all about - positive and negative.

Players should examen their performances not on whether they won or lost, but did they play positively.





Qtec

Scott Lee
03-17-2007, 12:40 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cydpkt:</font><hr> I am by no means a pro or named player but a couple of thoughts come to mind:

KISS = Keep It Simple Stupid. Move the cue ball as little as possible and you will keep your self out of trouble.

There are good shooters and hard shooters but there aren't any good hard shooters. (pocket speed) Apply speed only if the shot requires it for shape.

Thanks for the words of wisdom. <hr /></blockquote>

Cydpkt...Gosh those words sound familiar! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif Good words to live and play by!

Scott Lee

pooltchr
03-17-2007, 07:40 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> Now if you cut it and miss you look bad, but bank it and come close....you look pretty good..... <hr /></blockquote>

And either way, you are back in the chair and your opponent is at the table. Thinking about what you will look like after a shot is deadly. Thinking about what it takes to win the game is what counts. Looking good after a "great try" isn't anywhere near as satisfying as being the one who makes the last ball.
Steve

walt8880
03-17-2007, 09:29 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> Now if you cut it and miss you look bad, but bank it and come close....you look pretty good..... <hr /></blockquote>

And either way, you are back in the chair and your opponent is at the table. Thinking about what you will look like after a shot is deadly. Thinking about what it takes to win the game is what counts. <font color="red"> Looking good after a "great try" isn't anywhere near as satisfying as being the one who makes the last ball.</font color>
Steve <hr /></blockquote>

You've got that right.

On the subject of banks, I used to be one who did everything to avoid them. Last year , I got Freddy's "Banking With the Beard", studied it and practiced a lot, particulary on the cross table shots. Now, I am pretty confident with those shots. Many times it is easier to get position for a bank like that than a narrow cut down the rail. Also, many times on a cross table bank, with the make you have position on the next ball , but with a miss, you leave the CB and OB at opposite ends of the table for your opponent.

BRussell
03-17-2007, 12:53 PM
Here's one:

Especially in 8-ball, people often flip out about balls on the rail, when often a ball in the middle of the table (depending on how many pockets are available) are more difficult. Sure, if a ball is frozen to the rail right next to the side pocket, it's going to be really tough. But people over-generalize that to balls an inch off the rail two diamonds away from the corner, which are pretty easy to make and pretty easy to get position on. Yet I've seen people often focus all their attention on getting on those, only to get tripped up by the (often harder) balls out in the middle.

BLACKHEART
03-17-2007, 03:17 PM
OK, the 8 is 2 inches off the rail &amp; 2 diamonds up from the corner pocket. The Qball is 3 diamonds up the same rail &amp; in the middle of the table. For $500 do you cut it or bank it?...JER

jjinfla
03-17-2007, 03:47 PM
Cut

Bob_Jewett
03-17-2007, 04:00 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BLACKHEART:</font><hr> OK, the 8 is 2 inches off the rail &amp; 2 diamonds up from the corner pocket. The Qball is 3 diamonds up the same rail &amp; in the middle of the table. For $500 do you cut it or bank it?...JER <hr /></blockquote>
I'd probably cut it but for the same shot on a snooker table, I think I'd probably bank it. I'm not sure which I'm more likely to make, but that's the way it feels without actually trying it.

BLACKHEART
03-17-2007, 06:58 PM
Hi Bob; being an old snooker player, I completely agree. Most people have never played that great game &amp; don't know how hard it is, to run a ball down the rail...JER

cushioncrawler
03-18-2007, 02:52 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BLACKHEART:</font><hr> Hi Bob; being an old snooker player, I completely agree. Most people have never played that great game &amp; don't know how hard it is, to run a ball down the rail...JER <hr /></blockquote>In snooker, a double for a corner pocket is "suicide", koz safety is impossible. But, from about there, i have seen good snooker players play for the "cocked-hat" double, ie sending the OB into a center pocket off 3 cushions, not much more difficult (if u praktis) but safer. madMac.

Cydpkt
03-19-2007, 10:43 AM
Cydpkt...Gosh those words sound familiar! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif Good words to live and play by!

Scott Lee <hr /></blockquote>

/ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gifI try to put them to good use.

sofy60
03-19-2007, 06:56 PM
good advice except for the banking remarks.. banking is a big part of the game and they usually determine the winner. And most first year players can hit these or at least get it really close.

trob
03-20-2007, 07:19 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BLACKHEART:</font><hr> For years I have tried to impress upon my teams, that there are certan unbreakable rules of pool. If you observe these rules, you will improve &amp; will prevail at pool.

1) If you don't make this ball, you don't get to shoot, the next ball.(in other words, concentrate on making the ball you are shooting at).

2) If you can see a ball, you must hit that ball, rather than kick for a ball, you might have a chance to make. (When you kick for a ball 3 things can happen. You hit the ball &amp; have no 2nd shot. You miss the ball &amp; give the opponent ball in hand. You hit the ball &amp; make it AND follow it in to the ppocket &amp; scratch).

3) If the saftey is as hard as the shot .....TAKE THE SHOT.

4) As a rule only take combination shots, when you have to. If you absolutly have no other shot ....TAKE THIS SHOT EARLY IN THE GAME, so that you know where the middle ball ends up.

5) Bank shots are for dumbies. Even the best of players only make a small percentage of banks. You who only attempt 1 or 2 a game, have little or no chance of making this shot....&amp; you will not be able to predict the position of the Qball after the shot.

6) THE MOST IMPORTANT RULE OF POOL IS, KNOW WHERE THE QBALL WILL GO AFTER YOU MAKE THE SHOT.

After 51 years of playing this game, how far off am I, in my approch to coaching my players?...JER <hr /></blockquote>

I agree bank shots are a low percentage shot and I only take them when the safty is tougher then the bank..but why does getting have to do with makeing a bank. I have no problem playing position off a bank..it's no different then any other shot.