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View Full Version : 2 ball set throw -- Neil Robertson.



cushioncrawler
04-01-2007, 04:01 PM
Just been watching frame 3 of Neil vs Ronnie in the 2007 Welsh Open. Neil misses an eezy 2-ball set. The 2 reds are about 6mm apart (hard to tell), and just off-line to the corner pocket. Neil shood hit the first red full, left-of-center actually, but he elects to hit it right-of-center (mistake No 1). As if this iznt silly enuff, (mistake No 2) Neil decides to put some right-hand-side on the qball, "to help get the angle". But, RHS only makes the angle "worse" here.

When the red-to-red seperation is about 7mm it is difficult to get the second red to go anywhere but straight. Snooker players dont spend much time experimenting with this sort of shot. madMac.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=seVNTkV5wHg

randyg
04-02-2007, 06:34 PM
I can't see the right hand english in this shot. I think he just misplayed the shot...randyg

Bob_Jewett
04-02-2007, 07:24 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cushioncrawler:</font><hr> Just been watching frame 3 of Neil vs Ronnie in the 2007 Welsh Open. Neil misses an eezy 2-ball set. The 2 reds are about 6mm apart (hard to tell), ... <hr /></blockquote>
It looks to me like the two red balls are half a ball apart. It may be that he used side -- I can't tell -- but at least as important is judging the amount to cut the first ball. He over cut it. The balls were pointed to the side cushion jaw, and that's where the ball missed. He aimed the first ball for the pocket, and he should have aimed it at least a ball to the side cushion side of the pocket.

If you want to calculate how far apart the two balls are, I think there is enough info. At 3:01 in the video, there is a shot from the end of the table -- look at the reflections of the lights -- and you can see a certain amount of overlap. The pair of balls is sitting at 45-degree line to the table -- this is seen in the pocket-eye view of the shot where the line points back almost to the left center pocket.

cushioncrawler
04-02-2007, 08:40 PM
Yes perhaps 15mm apart, in which case "the 7mm paradox" aint a problem. But i do detect some right-hand-sidespin -- u can see the cue go right during the follow-throo and then come back. I think that, apart from having to jack-up to get over one red, Neil couldnt get to the centerline of the qball, so hadta uze RHS. He probably missjudged the squirt, what with all of the unwanted qball-jump going on, on a slippery cloth. Anyhow, the 7mm paradox will bite Neil one day, i can wait. madMac.

Stretch
04-02-2007, 09:10 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cushioncrawler:</font><hr> Yes perhaps 15mm apart, in which case "the 7mm paradox" aint a problem. But i do detect some right-hand-sidespin -- u can see the cue go right during the follow-throo and then come back. I think that, apart from having to jack-up to get over one red, Neil couldnt get to the centerline of the qball, so hadta uze RHS. He probably missjudged the squirt, what with all of the unwanted qball-jump going on, on a slippery cloth. Anyhow, the 7mm paradox will bite Neil one day, i can wait. madMac. <hr /></blockquote>

The 7mm paradox. Isn't that where you look at the set and use one grasping hand to spin clockwise, while using the other hand to spin counterclockwise, then use your eyes as the cue ball to spin clockwise to make it all happen? ....... hey i know that shot, whatever i figure out i know is wrong, so i do the opposite and it usually works. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif St.

cushioncrawler
04-03-2007, 02:36 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Stretch:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote cushioncrawler:</font><hr> Yes perhaps 15mm apart, in which case "the 7mm paradox" aint a problem. But i do detect some right-hand-sidespin -- u can see the cue go right during the follow-throo and then come back. I think that, apart from having to jack-up to get over one red, Neil couldnt get to the centerline of the qball, so hadta uze RHS. He probably missjudged the squirt, what with all of the unwanted qball-jump going on, on a slippery cloth. Anyhow, the 7mm paradox will bite Neil one day, i can wait. madMac. <hr /></blockquote>The 7mm paradox. Isn't that where you look at the set and use one grasping hand to spin clockwise, while using the other hand to spin counterclockwise, then use your eyes as the cue ball to spin clockwise to make it all happen? ....... hey i know that shot, whatever i figure out i know is wrong, so i do the opposite and it usually works. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif St. <hr /></blockquote>Stretch -- Sometimes, when doing tests n experiments, i need to hit a ball pretty straight. Now, some guys would freeze two balls and hit a qball into the first, reckoning that this is one way of getting a ball to go accurately "on line". No, it aint no good doing it this way. What i do, iz, i dont freeze the 2 balls, i place them on line but 7mm apart, koz, then, if u hit the first ball anywhere near full, the 2nd ball will go dead straight every time. The corollory iz that if u want to pot the 2nd ball, and the line iz just off line a bit, getting the correct angle iz hard work, u havta do a lot of work with the qball just to get a little angle. The 7mm paradox. madMac.

Jal
04-03-2007, 01:13 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cushioncrawler:</font><hr>Stretch -- Sometimes, when doing tests n experiments, i need to hit a ball pretty straight. Now, some guys would freeze two balls and hit a qball into the first, reckoning that this is one way of getting a ball to go accurately "on line". No, it aint no good doing it this way. What i do, iz, i dont freeze the 2 balls, i place them on line but 7mm apart, koz, then, if u hit the first ball anywhere near full, the 2nd ball will go dead straight every time. The corollory iz that if u want to pot the 2nd ball, and the line iz just off line a bit, getting the correct angle iz hard work, u havta do a lot of work with the qball just to get a little angle. The 7mm paradox. madMac. <hr /></blockquote>Mac, very interesting point. It's uncanny how close the throw angle matches (and obliterates) the departure angle of the second ball at this separation (7 mm). Plots of both support your contention (I know you don't need verification) for approach (attack) angles between the two set balls anywhere from zero to about forty degrees - the latter limit depending on shot speed. It's virtually the same for 2-1/8" and 2-1/4" balls. The throw graph which was used for comparison (Dr. Dave's) doesn't include any spin on the first ball, if in fact it does acquire some, which of course depends on the cueball.

Jim

Qtec
04-03-2007, 08:56 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Neil shood hit the first red full, left-of-center actually, but he elects to hit it right-of-center <hr /></blockquote>

......and thats why he missed. IMO, in this instance, what side he had on the ball isn't important because after hitting the wrong side of the ball, he was always going to miss.

Qtec

cushioncrawler
04-03-2007, 09:07 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> &lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
Neil shood hit the first red full, left-of-center actually, but he elects to hit it right-of-center <hr /></blockquote>

......and thats why he missed. IMO, in this instance, what side he had on the ball isn't important because after hitting the wrong side of the ball, he was always going to miss. Qtec <hr /></blockquote>Q -- I think that when u are in the 7mm-zone, uzing side-spin iz one of the best ways of buying some angle -- depending on where u want the qball to go. Anyhow, i sent Neil an email asking him about that missed shot. If he haz any brains he will ignore it. madMac.

Qtec
04-03-2007, 10:19 PM
[ QUOTE ]
If he haz any brains he will ignore it. madMac. <hr /></blockquote>

LMAO

We need to have a beer sometime.

Qtec /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif