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Gayle in MD
04-05-2007, 10:28 AM
Dear friends,

This week my sister, daughter, grand-daughter and I had a lovely day on Tuesday, in Washington D.C. We went to see the Cherry Blossoms, and take the beautiful walk around the tidal basin, to each of the Monuments of our American Heroes. While each of them were as beautiful, and just as impressive as the first time, when seeing them as a child, the inscriptions always choke me up, on every visit. There were several on the Jefferson Memorial about the Separation of Church and State, which I found very meaningful, but this year, the inscriptions on the Franklin Delano Roosevelt Memorial, were most meaningful of all

Emma and I had a tablet, in which we wrote our favorites.

Here are the ones which I found especially touching.
Also, after returning home, I found these links. Enjoy.


"I never forget that I live in a house owned by all American people and that I have been given their trust"


"I see one third of a nation ill-housed, ill-clad and ill-nourished. The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much, it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little"


"We must scrupulously guard the civil rights and civil liberties of our citizens what ever their back rounds. We must remember that any oppression, any injustice, any hatred is a wedge designed to attack our civilization"


"They who seek to establish systems of government based on the regimentation of all human beings by a handful of individual rulers call this new order. This is not new and it is not order"


Among American citizens there should be no forgotten men and no forgotten races, The only thing we have to fear, is fear itself."


"Man and nature must work hand in hand- the throwing out of balance of the resources of nature, throws out of balance also the lives of men"


"The structure of world peace can not be the mark of one man, one party or one nation. It must be a peace that rests on the co-operative effort of the whole world"


"Freedom of speech, freedom of worship. Freedom from want, freedom from fear "


"I have seen war, I have seen war on land and on sea. I have seen the blood running from the wounded. I have seen the dead in the mud. I have seen cities destroyed, I have seen children starving. I have seen the agony of mothers and wives- I hate war"

http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1144765

And this one provides some beautiful pictures.
http://godc.about.com/od/dctoursitineraries/ig/A-Walk-Around-the-Tidal-Basin/FDR-Memorial.--1S.htm

Gayle in Md.

cushioncrawler
04-05-2007, 07:22 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> ... The only thing we have to fear, is fear itself." <hr /></blockquote>Gayle -- That saying is near the top of my all-time "hate list". Typical economics krap.
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr>....."Man and nature must work hand in hand- the throwing out of balance of the resources of nature, throws out of balance also the lives of men"....<hr /></blockquote> This saying i like. Alltho, that word "resources" is starting to stink a bit the more i look at it. Not sure now. madMac.

Gayle in MD
04-05-2007, 08:35 PM
Quote Gayle in MD:
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... The only thing we have to fear, is fear itself."
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Gayle -- That saying is near the top of my all-time "hate list". Typical economics krap.

Quote Gayle in MD:

/ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif... <font color="red">LOL, No kidding? Isn't that funny, how something can be so touching to one person, and irritating as hell to someone else. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif I suppose I'm thinking of what a great leader Roosevelt was, at a time when our country was in such desparation, and how much he lifted a spirit of hope, for so many, who were in the depths of dispair. </font color>
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....."Man and nature must work hand in hand- the throwing out of balance of the resources of nature, throws out of balance also the lives of men"....
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This saying i like. Alltho, that word "resources" is starting to stink a bit the more i look at it. Not sure now. madMac. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

cushioncrawler
04-05-2007, 10:25 PM
Twelve years of despair. And then congress approoved 18billion for the war effort, and, gee-whizz, unemployment gone -- "unbeleeeevable" -- "who would have thort??!!" -- "its a miracle!!??" -- "Thank god for roozy" -- "3 cheers for roozy" -- and, "roozy for prezident" -- and, "hey, he allready iz prezident allready".

Gayle -- Fear is what u (we) all need right now, koz "they" are still uzing the same old economics textbooks, in every western country. Be afraid. madMac.

Gayle in MD
04-06-2007, 05:49 AM
Hi again,

As always, there are a number of ways to look at things. As for Roosevelt, he was not only a great leader, but his statements to the people, and to the world, spoke to the high intention, and humanitarian core of what our country stands for, and gave the people courage, unity, hope and determination to rise above the critical circumstances our nation faced. The threat, at that time, was obvious. It was not a threat of his own chosing, nor of his own making, for we had been attacked. He did not use our patriotism, for some grand hidden, ideological purpose, created by a bevy of elite intellectuals, who thought themselves wiser than those most aware, and experienced, for purposes against our principles. He made it very clear, that the United States is not an agressor, but not cowardly, and is a country which will rise to the occasion against a proven and appropriate enemy, and without breaking its word, or leaving its principles behind.

He did all this, without framing the United States as a ruthless agressor, without humanitarian values, and brought the country together, giving it the strength, and will which was so much needed at that time. Unlike today, our allies respected us, and because we were united by a great leader, we met the challenge, without sacrificing our dignity.

As for the economics of that time, they were not of his making, and he understood that a man without a job, is a broken man, and that wide spread unemployment strikes at the heart of a nation, destroys its soul, and its dignity. Too bad the neocons didn't understand that siimple principle when they occupied Iraq.

You speak of fear, and to me, fear, should not be used to fool a nation into doing what it would not otherwise do. Leading a nation to war, on lies, and against its best interests, after having been warned by so many, more knowledgable, more experienced, and more realistic about the likely outcome, by clouding the issue of just whom the enemy actually is, for a hidden agenda, is the antithesis of leadership. Occupying another country by choice, killing the innocent people, devastating their homeland, destroying their historical legacy, when they have never attacked our country, is the work of brutality, evil and dishonest, and falls far short of our own principles as a nation, and in fact, illegal. Hence, reading the words of a former great leader, today, are more poignant and touching. We have lost so much, and what we have lost, cannot be undone.

I am fearful knowing that our enemy is now much stronger than before 9/11, and even more fearful, knowing that we are led by a man so completely out of touch with reality, who has made poor decisions, over and over again, and still has not gained any humility from his misjudgments, or recognized his faulty methods, devastating failures, moral and intellectual limitations, which have hurt so many, and will hurt many more. We will pay, for his ignorance and arrogance.

Anyway friend, that's my take on it, FWIW. Not much I'm sure, by the standards of some.

Gayle in Md.

Bobbyrx
04-06-2007, 11:02 AM
When has the U.S. military targeted civilians in Iraq???
I guess for you to call Bush a "humanitarian" like FDR he would have had to round up all the people in the U.S. from the middle east and put them in internment camps. Then bomb their cities with incendiary bombs, carpet bombs and nuclear bombs
directed at civilians. Just do Bagdad like Dresden and Bush would be a great humanitarian. Give me a break....

Gayle in MD
04-06-2007, 11:13 AM
When did Iraq, bomb the United States? /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif When did they vow to take over the world, or attack our allies. The language of our treaties is that war is justified, when we, or our allies, are attacked. The gulf war was justified. Occupying Iraq, was illegal. Bush broke our international agreements, against the advice of all experts. Our military killed civilians in Iraq. Read Fiasco.

Gayle in Md.

Bobbyrx
04-06-2007, 02:28 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> When did Iraq, bomb the United States? /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif <font color="blue"> never but that was not the point of your post praising FDR as a humanitarian while Bush is a war criminal </font color> When did they vow to take over the world, or attack our allies. <font color="blue"> SH was vowing to attack someone about every day </font color> The language of our treaties is that war is justified, when we, or our allies, are attacked. The gulf war was justified. <font color="blue"> So if Bush Sr. had bombed Bagdad into rubble, killing a few million civilians, then he would be a humanitarian like FDR since that war was justified. Now I see </font color> Occupying Iraq, was illegal. Bush broke our international agreements, <font color="blue">So did SH </font color> against the advice of all experts. <font color="blue"> ?? </font color> Our military killed civilians in Iraq. <font color="blue"> But they do not, as a policy, target civilians </font color>Read Fiasco. <font color="blue"> why? </font color>

Gayle in Md. <hr /></blockquote>

cushioncrawler
04-06-2007, 03:55 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> ...As for the economics of that time, they were not of his making, and he understood that a man without a job, is a broken man, and that wide spread unemployment strikes at the heart of a nation, destroys its soul, and its dignity.... <hr /></blockquote>Gayle -- One little story that i havnt forgotten since i read it in 1970 goze like this. The Secretary of Agriculture gave orders to plow the cotton crop back into the ground -- the mules refused to pull the plows, they had been trained (painfully) to not ever harm a hair of the crop, and they couldnt fathom WTF woz going on -- the farmers were wearing old cotton shirts with holes in them, and they were plowing the cotton back in -- the mules had more brains than the Secretary -- KrapEnomics won (lost) again. madMac.

Gayle in MD
04-06-2007, 05:18 PM
Bush Sr. wasn't dumb enough to bomb Iraq. Removing Saddam, was a stretegic error. We, the United States, were far better off with him in there, than we are now. Sanctions had worked, and he was not our pressing problem, alQaeda attacked us, not Saddam, and alQaeda should have been our focuss.



Roosevelt was a great President. Reagan followed Carter's policies, good will, diplomacy, peace talks, both Carter and Reagan accomplished results. Bush, OTOH, has made everything much worse, and so say 16 National Security Agencies, and all prominent foreign relations experts. But then, you people of the 30%, wilol never get it until the real mushroom cloud hits, and it won't be Iraq. Maybe then, you will understand that we should have stayed out of Iraq, in Afghsnistan, and finished alQeada off while we had the chance. It's too late now. They have become stronger than ever, thanks to your hero, Bush, the royal F-up.

Nuff said.

Gayle in Md.

Bobbyrx
04-07-2007, 08:52 AM
Spin it back to Bush lied, people died. I'll try again. You were saying what a great humanitarian FDR was compared to the war criminals we have in office now. FDR presided over the targeting of civilians during WWII. Today we go out of our way not to kill civilians even though the people we are fighting wear no uniforms and represent no country.
If we had the media during WWII that we have today, somehow I don't see you leading the way to praise FDR for Japanese internment and for targeting civilian populations in Germany and Japan. Again, as I have said, Bush is certainly not my hero. I just don't think there is a handful of rich "Neocons" behind the scenes trying to take over the world with some master plot. There are too many rich and powerful left wingers to let this happen.

Gayle in MD
04-07-2007, 09:44 AM
Right, and I suppose it's just a coincidence that all the civilians hooked up with the AIE, who pushed for this occupation in Iraq are rich Jewish people, with close ties to Isreal, and the American Media. Oh, and it's just a coincidence that Wolfowitz gave his mistress at the World Bank so many raises that others who work there are filing complaints, she makes more than the Secretary of State. Just a coincidence that Reagan and his party managed to do away with the FCC balance and fairness regulations, just before the right launched their right wing nutty radio and television fascist jocks. Just a coincidence that the top DOJ aide to Gonzales, has resigned, and her predecsesor is such a looney religious freak, full of ordacity and dictatorial and religious rants, all four directly under her are resigning over her incompetence, and tyranny. Just a coincidence that Plame was outed, and just a coincidence there were no WMD's in Iraq. Just a coincidence that bush's appointments are only people who swear allegience to the King, regardless of their ability, and just a coincidence that there have been more public servants, of high and lower levels, who have resigned during Bush's administration, than any in history, and just a coincidence that Cheney worked for Halliburton. Just a coincidence that every time the Republicans get into office, the debt soars, and even THEY ennd up having to raise taxes, READ Reagan, and Bush SR, and just a coincidence that Democrats have to get control to pay it down again. Just a coincidence that everytime the Republicans get into power, the rich get richer, and the gap between the rich and poor takes a big increase.

You righties are a piece of work. This post was supposed to be about our historical values. It did not originally include any partisan language. I thought it might be nice to offer some inspirational language, and some beautiful pictures of our Washington D.C. monuments, and the Cherry Blossoms, but alas, the nutty 30% cannot abide anything positive that includes anything Democratic, even if it doesn't have a damn thing to do with anything that's going on today.

I'm sorry for you that you are Republican, it must be embarrassing, but hey, you voted for them, now you have to take the heat for what they've done. You say you don't totally approve of Bush, but the truth is, he couldn't have done the damage he has done without his blank check Republican majority, who failed, completely, to allow any daylight to fall upon his dark and decieving policies, which preceeded his many incompetent screw ups, not to mention their own raging corruption, the worst in history.



If you don't think the AEI had a plan for global dominance, beginning with Iraq, then you haven't studied their platform.

As far as Roosevelt goes, admiring the benefits he gave to our country through his inspiring words, does not include approval of every single decision he made. I know he led the country upwards from the depths, and managed to get the economic ball rolling, at a time when 10 million men were roaming the country looking for a job, and people were starving to death. I'd say he played a pretty important role in saving America, unlike Bush, who has run it into the ground through a whole range of piss poor dicisions, and with the help of Neocons, with no common sense.

Also, if you don't think civilians have been a target in Iraq, you are not paying attention. But then, anyone who supports the Republican Party, after they have promoted torture, and pre-emptive attacks against people who had no threatening weapons, and were not attacking us, or our allies, is in no position to make humanitarian judgments anyway, IMO. Comparing Germany, or Japan, to Iraq, or decisions made among those three very different wars, is an effort which falls far short of reasonable debate in the first place. The only thing that even comes close, is Vietnam, the handling of which made me so angry that I became an Independent, and never changed my affiliation until this bunch of fascist Republicans surfaced, so don't talk to me about partisanship. I don't defend wrong doing, regardless of who is doing it.



Gayle in Md.

wolfdancer
04-07-2007, 10:45 AM
Gayle, this is off point,but...I watched part of an interesting segment yesterday on C-Span. The topic was
Andrew Cockburn's book "Rumsfeld: His Rise, Fall, and Catastrophic Legacy"
A review can be read here:
web page (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1416535748/counterpunchmaga)
Turns out our Rummy not only wanted to be President, but thought he was the best man qualified for the job. To eliminate his rivals, he created a smear campaign against Rockefeller, and maneuvered George bush into the CIA director's office....normally a political dead end.
That's where it gets interesting...Bush senior does not like Rumsfield...and GWB's appointment of him...is considered by some as a "rub it in your face" move. It also seems that GWB likes to rate himself superior, in comparision to his father....which makes me wonder.....is the real reason for this war....just....an Oedipus complex???
Dad stopped at the gates to Iraq....but junior was going to march through them like Julius Caesar..!!
Well, I guess these family conflicts arise, especially when you're not exactly the pick of the litter.....
AND.....another book...."Grand Theft Pentagon :Tales of Corruption and Profiteering in the War on Terror"
( From the F-22 fighter jet and B-2 bomber to the Stryker tank and Star Wars, Grand Theft Pentagon chronicles how the Pentagon shells out billions to politically wired arms contractors for weapons that don't work for use against an enemy that no longer exists. St. Clair shows how many of the biggest arms contracts were literally inside jobs, negotiated by Pentagon generals who later went to work for the very same corporations that were awarded the contracts.)

Gayle in MD
04-07-2007, 06:26 PM
Thanks for the links. It's really alarming when one reads the history of all of them. A study of those who have been members of the American Enterprise Institute, also, puts one in mind of the most horrible dictatorships.

Eisenhower warned us long ago of the growing Military Industrial Complex. Every war we've been involved in since then, could have been avoided, and this last one was actually illegal. It's disgusting to think they focus all their recruitment in lower income areas, and then these young middle class folks pay with their lives and limbs, in trumped up wars, to make the rich, richer.

Gayle in Md.

Bobbyrx
04-08-2007, 09:24 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Right, and I suppose it's just a coincidence that all the civilians hooked up with the AIE, who pushed for this occupation in Iraq are rich Jewish people, with close ties to Isreal, and the American Media. <font color="blue">So now rich Jewish people and the American Media are on the right !?!?!?!? </font color> Oh, and it's just a coincidence that Wolfowitz gave his mistress at the World Bank so many raises that others who work there are filing complaints, she makes more than the Secretary of State. <font color="blue"> so ????</font color> Just a coincidence that Reagan and his party managed to do away with the FCC balance and fairness regulations, just before the right launched their right wing nutty radio and television fascist jocks. <font color="blue"> Thank goodness for that. Why is Air America doing so well these days??? </font color> Just a coincidence that the top DOJ aide to Gonzales, has resigned, and her predecsesor is such a looney religious freak, full of ordacity and dictatorial and religious rants, all four directly under her are resigning over her incompetence, and tyranny. Just a coincidence that Plame was outed, <font color="blue"> yes </font color> and just a coincidence there were no WMD's in Iraq. <font color="blue">I don't know. Ask Clinton. Iguess he's part of the plot also </font color> Just a coincidence that bush's appointments are only people who swear allegience to the King, regardless of their ability, <font color="blue"> just like every president </font color> and just a coincidence that there have been more public servants, of high and lower levels, who have resigned during Bush's administration, than any in history, and just a coincidence that Cheney worked for Halliburton. <font color="blue"> yes, Republicans usually work for a living prior to politics unlike the Kennedy's, Clinton's etc </font color> Just a coincidence that every time the Republicans get into office, the debt soars, and even THEY ennd up having to raise taxes, READ Reagan, and Bush SR, <font color="blue"> Bush Sr. made the mistake of trusting a Democratic congress and GWB cut taxes </font color> and just a coincidence that Democrats have to get control to pay it down again. <font color="blue">not a coincidence and not true </font color> Just a coincidence that everytime the Republicans get into power, the rich get richer, and the gap between the rich and poor takes a big increase. <font color="blue"> Yea I'm dreaming of the return of the days of 20% interest on my credit cards and mortgage </font color>

You righties are a piece of work. This post was supposed to be about our historical values. It did not originally include any partisan language. <font color="blue"> Not until YOU started it up again....see above </font color> I thought it might be nice to offer some inspirational language, and some beautiful pictures of our Washington D.C. monuments, and the Cherry Blossoms, but alas, the nutty 30% cannot abide anything positive that includes anything Democratic, even if it doesn't have a damn thing to do with anything that's going on today.

I'm sorry for you that you are Republican, it must be embarrassing, but hey, you voted for them, now you have to take the heat for what they've done. You say you don't totally approve of Bush, but the truth is, he couldn't have done the damage he has done without his blank check Republican majority, who failed, completely, to allow any daylight to fall upon his dark and decieving policies, which preceeded his many incompetent screw ups, not to mention their own raging corruption, the worst in history.



If you don't think the AEI had a plan for global dominance, beginning with Iraq, then you haven't studied their platform.

As far as Roosevelt goes, admiring the benefits he gave to our country through his inspiring words, does not include approval of every single decision he made. I know he led the country upwards from the depths, and managed to get the economic ball rolling, at a time when 10 million men were roaming the country looking for a job, and people were starving to death. <font color="blue"> a world war will do that <font color="blue"> </font color> </font color> I'd say he played a pretty important role in saving America, unlike Bush, who has run it into the ground through a whole range of piss poor dicisions, and with the help of Neocons, with no common sense.

Also, if you don't think civilians have been a target in Iraq, you are not paying attention. <font color="blue">Typical far leftest B.S.....show me where </font color> But then, anyone who supports the Republican Party, after they have promoted torture, and pre-emptive attacks against people who had no threatening weapons, and were not attacking us, or our allies, is in no position to make humanitarian judgments anyway, IMO. <font color="blue">Then you tell me the situation in which you would approve of what FDR did...ie targeting civilians and internment camps?? </font color> Comparing Germany, or Japan, to Iraq, or decisions made among those three very different wars, is an effort which falls far short of reasonable debate in the first place. The only thing that even comes close, is Vietnam, the handling of which made me so angry that I became an Independent, and never changed my affiliation until this bunch of fascist Republicans surfaced, so don't talk to me about partisanship. I don't defend wrong doing, regardless of who is doing it. <font color="blue"> that's what you are doing with FDR </font color>



Gayle in Md. <hr /></blockquote> <font color="blue"> </font color>

Gayle in MD
04-08-2007, 04:59 PM
I find your comments to be so far away from historical facts, it's rather pointless to enter into a debate with you. Both Bush SR. and Reagan, raised taxes, when the results of their cut taxes voodoo Reganomics began to surface, remember "Read My Lips"???????

Clinton balanced the budget, and left a surplus, unlike what we're facing now. People made a lot of money during his tenure, good stock market, among other things. Greenspan said he was the most intelligent president he had ever served under. He didn't lie us into a war. Roosevelt didn't lie us into a war, either.

As for the AEI, you obviously havn't ever bothered to study what is is, how it impacted our foreign policy, or who is even a member, and that the same people who fund AEI, are the very Corporate fascists who are making billions in Iraq, with no bid contracts, and how they pushed for an occupation in Iraq. Wolfowitz, whose sister still lives in Isreal, and is giving these big raises to his mistress at the World Bank, against policy, hence others employed there have filed complaints, any idea who is paying for her huge salary, eventhough her peers say she is incompetent? Any idea who funds the AEI? Any idea who owns the right wing TV, and radio stations?

BTW, I have never supported decimating other countries, killing innocent people, regardless of whom is in the White House. I am against any war, other than a war launched because we are attacked on our shores, or one of our allies is attacked. I'm against Nation Building, the very thing that Bush said he wouldn't do...but is doing now.

George Bush is the dumbest and most dishonest man to ever sit in the oval office. He has done more damage to this country, with the cover of his Republican Majority, than any President, ever. There's nothing worse, than lying a country into a war, so that your cronies can get richer.

Gayle in Md.

Bobbyrx
04-09-2007, 02:00 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> I find your comments to be so far away from historical facts, it's rather pointless to enter into a debate with you. <font color="blue">what comment in particular do you mean?? </font color>
As for the AEI, you obviously havn't ever bothered to study what is is, how it impacted our foreign policy, or who is even a member, <font color="blue"> yeah the U.S. ambassador to Finland is trying to take over the world </font color> and that the same people who fund AEI, <font color="blue">Microsoft??? </font color> are the very Corporate fascists who are making billions in Iraq, with no bid contracts, and how they pushed for an occupation in Iraq. Wolfowitz, whose sister still lives in Isreal, <font color="blue"> what difference does that make??? </font color> and is giving these big raises to his mistress at the World Bank, against policy, hence others employed there have filed complaints, any idea who is paying for her huge salary, eventhough her peers say she is incompetent? Any idea who funds the AEI? Any idea who owns the right wing TV, and radio stations? <font color="blue">and who owns the left wing?? </font color>

BTW, I have never supported decimating other countries, killing innocent people, regardless of whom is in the White House. <font color="blue">but you did say FDR was a humanitarian when he targeted civilians and that our military now targets civilians in Iraq </font color>