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View Full Version : Re: Hard tip vs. Medium tip



bataisbest
04-09-2007, 07:29 PM
Hi everyone,

About 2 weeks ago I posted a question on the forum regarding whether changing from a medium tip to a hard tip would affect your game. So far I would have to say no. I've played daily at home on my 7 ft. table and at the poolhall on the 9 ft. tables.I really don't notice any appreciable difference. I have'nt miscued as much as I was told I would by some who use a hard tip. It feels the same to me as if I had kept using the medium tip. I keep it shaped to nickel radius and use a Tip- Pik every now and then. Otherwise I don't feel I've changed tips at all. Just wanted to give feedback on my experience with this. Thanks again.

mantis
04-09-2007, 07:44 PM
The only things I notice with this, are that A medium tip holds chalk better, and it lends itself to a softer feeling hit. I may also say that the harder tip has a slightly higher chance of miscue.

Cydpkt
04-10-2007, 08:30 AM
A while back (5 years) I changed to a laminated tip that was hard. I ended up cutting it off and going back to my Le Pro. I was throwing the balls right out of the pockets. Yup, I used way too much english back then. Now that I have settled down a little (using natural angles) I have been thinking of going back and giving it another try.

SpiderMan
04-10-2007, 09:13 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cydpkt:</font><hr> A while back (5 years) I changed to a laminated tip that was hard. I ended up cutting it off and going back to my Le Pro. I was throwing the balls right out of the pockets. Yup, I used way too much english back then. Now that I have settled down a little (using natural angles) I have been thinking of going back and giving it another try. <hr /></blockquote>

Have you bought any LePros in the past 6 months or so? I think the factory may have changed the process, or else they have very poor process control. The last box I got from Atlas Billiard Supply was off the scale for hardness. I'm talking harder than the natural-color WB tips. I can't use them for anything but break cues.

SpiderMan

bsmutz
04-10-2007, 09:41 AM
I've become a Sniper fan. After experiencing too much variation with LePro tips, I tried a Talisman WB hard tip. It worked better than the LePro, but it ended up delaminating on me. I put a Sniper tip on and things got pretty ugly for me there for a while. I was getting a whole lot more action on the cue ball and on shots that I used a lot of English on, was throwing the balls out of the pocket even on what would normally be a gimme. It was scary. After a couple of weeks, I learned to pay closer attention to my tip placement. Now my game has gotten a whole lot better. I get very consistent action even when I forget to chalk up. I can finally hit those extreme shots that I used to think I would never have the stroke for or would miscue on. For instance, when I have a slight cut to the side pocket and need to get shape to the short rail on the opposite end, I can put extreme top spin and go one rail above the side pocket to the short rail 5-6" inside the corner pocket. This was something I had never imagined I would be able to do before. Me likey!

SpiderMan
04-10-2007, 09:49 AM
If you search the archives for the past 3 or 4 years, you'll see that Talismans have been tagged with a history of delamination. Often this is not a matter of the top layer coming off (which is the most obvious way for a delam to occur), but rather a breakdown of tip integrity maybe two or three layers up from the ferrule. You'll first see it as a dark line between layers, because it collects chalk. If you have a microscope, you'll be able to see that the layer has actually gone "spongy". Some players don't notice anything at this stage, others who are more equipment-sensitive will feel the tip getting "dead".

SpiderMan

Cydpkt
04-10-2007, 10:07 AM
I've had my Le Pros for 5-6 years now. I have not purchased any lately. If that is the case it will help me make the move a little easier.

SpiderMan
04-10-2007, 10:13 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cydpkt:</font><hr> I've had my Le Pros for 5-6 years now. I have not purchased any lately. If that is the case it will help me make the move a little easier. <hr /></blockquote>

If you have a box of the old LePros, hang onto them if you like them. Who knows, the change may be permanent. I won't be wasting money on another full box anytime soon, though. I'll stick with Triangles for customers that want something medium-hard.

SpiderMan

Cydpkt
04-10-2007, 10:17 AM
With only 4 left I will need to make my mind up soon. No more free tips for friends! I've been thinking of trying a Morri tip. What do you know about them?

SpiderMan
04-10-2007, 10:29 AM
Expensive, but I like them a lot. They are extremely consistent in manufacture. I don't think I've ever gotten a "bad" one.

Laminated tips are not for everyone, but try it at least once. Use a skilled installer with real tools that won't rip or overheat the leather.

If you like them, then no tip really costs more than your game is worth, right?

SpiderMan

Rich R.
04-10-2007, 10:34 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bataisbest:</font><hr> Hi everyone,

About 2 weeks ago I posted a question on the forum regarding whether changing from a medium tip to a hard tip would affect your game. So far I would have to say no. I've played daily at home on my 7 ft. table and at the poolhall on the 9 ft. tables.I really don't notice any appreciable difference. I have'nt miscued as much as I was told I would by some who use a hard tip. It feels the same to me as if I had kept using the medium tip. I keep it shaped to nickel radius and use a Tip- Pik every now and then. Otherwise I don't feel I've changed tips at all. Just wanted to give feedback on my experience with this. Thanks again. <hr /></blockquote>
Please tell us what medium tip you were using and what hard tip you switched to.
If you had a tip at the high end of the medium bracket and changed to a tip at the low end of the hard bracket, there probably wasn't much difference.

Cydpkt
04-10-2007, 10:46 AM
Consistancy is the key. My wife always says, "Its a poor carpenter who blames his tools." My game doesn't need to be constantly adapting to differences in tips. If I can find a consistant tip that works well for me I will use it. Thanks

Sid_Vicious
04-10-2007, 11:50 AM
Moori tips are worth it, unless you are the type to continually saw and shape your tip. Main thing is the consistency, and I have to say that the chalk really holds nicely on layered tips. I've played with Moori Hard tips for years and will stick with them. Properly maintained(basically left alone, slight scuff if you have to fiddle), they last even an avid player beyond a year, and the hards hold shape. sid

bataisbest
04-10-2007, 04:45 PM
I was using a medium Le Pro and changed to Hard Le Pro. Alot of people I know like the Mooris HARD tip.

Rich R.
04-10-2007, 09:09 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bataisbest:</font><hr> I was using a medium Le Pro and changed to Hard Le Pro. Alot of people I know like the Mooris HARD tip. <hr /></blockquote>
Now I'm confused. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

According to the manufacturer, Tweeten Fibre, Le Pro tips don't come in different hardnesses.
http://www.tweeten.us/cuetips.html

SpiderMan
04-11-2007, 07:33 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rich R.:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote bataisbest:</font><hr> I was using a medium Le Pro and changed to Hard Le Pro. Alot of people I know like the Mooris HARD tip. <hr /></blockquote>
Now I'm confused. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

According to the manufacturer, Tweeten Fibre, Le Pro tips don't come in different hardnesses.
http://www.tweeten.us/cuetips.html <hr /></blockquote>

That's right, they don't. But there seems to be enough inconsistency that you can pick and choose if you figure out how to test them. One local tip guy used to drop them in a heavy glass ashtray and listen to them. Another would judge by the grain pattern on the back (non-shaped) side. It's actually difficult to judge a tip like the LePro before installation, because the entire thing is coated.

The LePros I've gotten recently are all hard as rocks, unusable as play tips even by guys who like them hard.

SpiderMan

Sid_Vicious
04-11-2007, 08:00 AM
Only way to get hardness variation in LePro tips is to select then from a box one by one till you find one harder. There are no grades in LePro. sid

mr_griff
04-11-2007, 02:47 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> Expensive, but I like them a lot. They are extremely consistent in manufacture. I don't think I've ever gotten a "bad" one.

Laminated tips are not for everyone, but try it at least once. Use a skilled installer with real tools that won't rip or overheat the leather.

If you like them, then no tip really costs more than your game is worth, right?

SpiderMan <hr /></blockquote>

A lady at Western BCA regionals convinced me that Everest is the best tip for spin and consistency. If you're gonna pay someone else to do (someone with a lathe preferably) the price difference is not much. I had a Moori, but I bought the cue used with a Medium Moori tip about 3 months prior. There wasnt a ton of meat on it so the new tip meant less miscues, but that might have been just needing a new tip. I like the medium everest.

There is a tool that some billiard places use that can measure a tips hardness (usually they fall between 50-90) the name of it escapes me. Billirds and Bagels in Gresham OR has one.

bataisbest
04-11-2007, 03:48 PM
I went to different sites online and some said, "Hard" others ,"Medium-Hard" and both were Le Pro. On the other hand, I could not find strictly "Medium Le Pro" anywhere. So in that sense, I guess you are correct.I asked the tip guy at the poolhall and he looked at my tip and told me it looked like "Hard" due to the darker color. Also, someone mentioned in an earlier post that hard tips don't hold chalk as well as medium or soft tips. I have noticed that this new ( Hard?) TIP does'nt hold chalk as well as my other Le Pros that were supposedley Medium.