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Qtec
04-14-2007, 08:17 AM
web page (http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/04/13/white.house.email/index.html)

Question.
If you had a buisiness and were required by law to keep records for 5 years [ for the IRS say] and they ask you for your records and your reply is "sorry, because of a pc glitch, all data is lost." Your a$$ woukld be grass! /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
The Govt has a DUTY to comply with the law. They should be brought , under oath, to testify how this 'miracle' occured.

Q

Gayle in MD
04-14-2007, 10:13 AM
One more crock of **** in a long long list, like the Iraq war being a War On Terror! One more br9oken law, to cover up for other broken laws. Twenty MORE months to go before we can get rid of these faxcists! Think we'll survive their lies and incompetence? /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif They're statements are absolutely absurd!

http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/news/nation/17074852.htm?source=rss&channel=krwashington_natio n

Gayle in Md.

llotter
04-14-2007, 12:00 PM
The Left has been hurling scurrilous accusations at the administration for years and now, with subpoena power, I hope to see clearly just what asses they are. Of course, even with no evidence, there will be no slowing them down because bereft of anything constructive, conspiracy is all they have...empty jargon that they are experts at spinning.

Gayle in MD
04-15-2007, 03:52 AM
I hope you were as astute in your slanted observations while Kenneth Starr was locking people up because they didn't have anything to give him against the Clinton's, and Republicans were launching impeachment proceedings, which did not reach appropriate conditions for impeachment, and Muchroom clouds were being invented by Dick Cheney, to scare the crap out of Americnas, so he could push us into Iraq, and make all his corporate fascist friends wealthier.

Gayle in Md.

Chopstick
04-15-2007, 07:52 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> web page (http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/04/13/white.house.email/index.html)

Question.
If you had a buisiness and were required by law to keep records for 5 years [ for the IRS say] and they ask you for your records and your reply is "sorry, because of a pc glitch, all data is lost." Your a$$ woukld be grass! /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
The Govt has a DUTY to comply with the law. They should be brought , under oath, to testify how this 'miracle' occured.

Q <hr /></blockquote>

That kind of thing happens all the time. I just witnessed first hand $142,000 in SLA penalties get paid out last month for the same thing.

Gayle in MD
04-15-2007, 07:56 AM
[ QUOTE ]
WASHINGTON — The fight over documents has gone to red alert. The White House acknowledges it cannot find four years' worth of e-mails from chief political strategist Karl Rove. The admission has thrust the Democrats' nemesis back into the center of attention and poses a fresh political challenge for President Bush.

The administration has acknowledged that some e-mails missing from Rove's Republican party account may relate to the firing of eight U.S. prosecutors last year. The Democratic-run Congress is investigating whether the firings resulted from political pressure by Attorney General Alberto Gonzales and the White House.

<hr /></blockquote>

This sounds more like a concerted effort, than a mishap.

Gayle in Md.

Gayle in MD
04-15-2007, 04:04 PM
From Mcclatchy, Washington...

Deleting embarrassing e-mails isn't easy, experts say
By Robert S. Boyd
McClatchy Newspapers

WASHINGTON - If Karl Rove or other White House staffers tried to delete sensitive e-mails from their computers, experts said, investigators usually could recover all or most of them.


The House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform is investigating whether the White House or the Republican National Committee erased "a large volume of e-mails" that may be related to the firings of eight U.S. attorneys.


Rove's lawyer, Robert Luskin, denied Friday that his client, President Bush's top political adviser, intentionally deleted his e-mails. He said Rove thought they were being stored on other machines as well as on his own.


Deleting a document or e-mail doesn't remove the file from a computer's hard drive or a backup server. The only thing that's erased is the address - known as a "pointer" - indicating where the file is stored.


It's like "removing an index card in a library," said Robert Guinaugh, a senior partner at CyberControls LLC, a data forensic-support company in Barrington, Ill. "You take the card out, but the book is still on the shelf."


Similarly, the bits and bytes - the 0's and 1's of computer language - remain on the computer's hard disk until they're overwritten by another file. Portions of the file also are scattered in various locations on the disk, so some parts may not be overwritten for years, if ever. This is a random process directed by the machine's operating system, over which the user has no control.


"People think they can delete e-mails, but that's not always the case," Guinaugh said. "Two years from now I could still find a file I deleted today."


The only sure way to get rid of the data permanently, he said, is to "scrub" the disk with special software or destroy it.


"You could take the hard drive out and smash it with a hammer," said Ron Ravikoff, a senior partner and expert on deleted e-mails at Zuckerman Spaeder, a Miami law firm.




To find a deleted document or e-mail, investigators create what they call a "bitstream" - a bit-by-bit copy of every 0 or 1 on the computer's hard drive. Using forensic software, they scroll through this mass of data looking for names, addresses, key words, dates, times or phrases that might have come from a deleted file. These segments can be partly, or sometimes completely, reassembled.


"It's a painstaking process," Guinaugh said. "There may be pieces of files scattered around. You have to put it together again."


As an investigator works, he may run across evidence that someone had installed scrubbing software or changed the date and time that a file was created.


"That would be suspicious," Guinaugh said. "It might indicate that something nefarious was going on."


The recovery of a deleted file won a settlement in a famous court case in 1999 that involved a woman who died after taking a combination of diet pills from the A.H. Robins Co., a drug manufacturer in Richmond, Va. Her lawyers found an internal e-mail from one Robins employee to another that read: "Do I have to look forward to spending my waning years writing checks to fat people worried about a silly lung problem?"

And Oh, I'm so relieved to know that the White House has their own computer forensics team working hard to recover them, /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif LMAO!

llotter
04-15-2007, 05:54 PM
Of course, evidence of the Clinton administration’s wrong doing was everywhere and his fellow Democrats jumped through hoops ignoring it. And even though the main character escaped major penalties, many were found guilty and served jail time and many other plea bargained their way out. In order to find guilt in the Bush administration, you have to impute some devious motives, that have no basis in reality, to every action when totally patriotic motives would better apply. This is deconstructing current history for political gain and it inexcusable and anti-American. It is sadly telling when the Speaker of the House refers to the Iraq war as, ‘Bush’s War’ instead of our war or America’s war. Whose side is she on exactly?

The Left has to rationalize their way out of the prima-fascia evidence against them while they take exactly the opposite tact when dealing with the Republicans, ignoring any evidence that doesn't fit their preconceptions. While it is a natural tendency for individuals to let their bias filter the evidence, for large groups to fall into the same trap, as it has on the Left, it is only evidence of mass hysteria.

Just look, for example at the current global warming issue. There is plenty of evidence and testimony showing that it is definitely not something we should be overly concerned with but the global warming fanatics refuse to even consider any opposing viewpoints…their mind is made up. On the other hand, these same control freaks want to dig up every possible scrap of evidence, no matter how small or lacking in credibility when it supports their political goal of undermining Bush administration.

llotter
04-15-2007, 06:30 PM
As I understand the genesis of the missing email problem is that it illegal to use government hardware for political purposes and therefore political personnel often used outside accounts and servers to conduct what they believed was political in nature. In fact, the policy seemed to be that if you were doubtful about whether the email was political or fell within admisistrative duties, it was best to ere on the side of the political, not wanting to break the specific law. Therefore many people have more than one email account to use and it is only the government accounts that are required to be saved by law, not outside accounts. I bet all you Lefties would be the first to defend the privacy of these political accounts.

It is more likely that the situation is the product of unintended consequences of previous legislation than any evil design by the administration. But, as the Democrats well know, pointing the suspicious finger for political gain beats the truth any day, plus, they might just get to review the Republican political strategy. It looks like a win – win for the Dems.

eg8r
04-15-2007, 07:33 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Of course, evidence of the Clinton administration’s wrong doing was everywhere and his fellow Democrats jumped through hoops ignoring it. And even though the main character escaped major penalties, many were found guilty and served jail time and many other plea bargained their way out. <hr /></blockquote> How about Sandy Berger. That fool got caught stealing the files. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif Yep, those Clintons were squeaky clean.

eg8r

Gayle in MD
04-16-2007, 05:41 AM
[ QUOTE ]
ignoring any evidence that doesn't fit their preconceptions. <hr /></blockquote>

LMAO...yeah, right, this is exactly the description we have gotten over and over from a very formidable list of people at the C.I.A., Pentagon, three and four star generals, foreign policy experts, award winning journalists and reporters, and even former administration insiders, regarding the Bush/Cheney/Rice/Rumsfeld decietful tactics, used to push our country into the illegal occupation of Iraq, even after all the experts told them they were making a huge mistake.

[ QUOTE ]
And even though the main character escaped major penalties, many were found guilty and served jail time and many other plea bargained their way out. <hr /></blockquote>

Exact description of what is going on right now in the Republican party, including top level officials in the White House, more than any administration since Nixon.

Manipulating and exploiting the citizens of this country, and our once, many allies all over the world, whose citizens carried candles, and took part in midnight vigils for the victims of 9/11, and pledged their help to America in capturing the radicals behind it, is the most repulsive action I've ever seen by any president. They exploited the worst National disaster in America's history, for their own hidden agenda, and managed to make the world far more unsafe than it has ever been, and hence, we have never been so hated, by so many, ever.

Watching the way the surviving 9/11 families were treated, by REPUBLICANS, when they had to demand an investigation, which, slanted as it was to protect Rice, Cheney and Bush, nevertheless, revealed their complete negligence and incompetence, much of it due to their obsession with Iraq.

One would think Republican supporters would be too embarrassed to even bring up the results of what amounted to an obsession to "Get the Clintons" so they could catch Bill doing the same damn thing that quite a list of Republicans were also doing, including his most outraged critic, Gingrich. But surely, thousands and thousand of dead Iraqis, coalition soldiers and Americans, and the destruction of 30 years of diplomacy, and sucessful foreign policies, resuting in creating the regional and psychological breeding ground for more radical Islamists to be captured by their hatred for the West, and trained for more jjihad against the world, just a drop in the bucket compared to having an affair.

Republicans across the country have left the party because of George Bush, his lies, and his deciet, incompetence and indecent, inhumane behavior. When a President lies us into a war, it is all too appropriate to call it "Bush's War" since that is precisely what it is, Bush's War, which our brave soldiers are dying in everyday, hence, Republican Presidential campaigners, like McCain, must correct themselve when, without thinking, they refer to the loss of Ameican lives as a "waste."

While you conveniently skip over the Bush policies, leading to his destablization of an entire region, You're hardly the one to be pointing fingers, and accusing others of minimizing disaster for political purposes. The best and brightest of the highest levels of expertise, can't fugure an acceptable way out of the mess little Georgie has made of the world, and his lasting negative affects on the future of America.

You're just one more liberal hating authoritarian lover, disillusioned with the poor choices you've made in the voting booth, noeconned, and having to live with all your former rages against the Clintons, who now look like Jesus and Mary, compared to the colossal mess we must deal with now, thanks to your boy George.

After Nixon/Watergate, Ford/Nixon-pardon, Reagan/Iran Contra, and the house of saud/Bush/Bush, House Of saud/Cheney, results, only your references to global warming compare to your State Of Denial, regarding the results of Republican corruption, deciet and incompetence. Hence, only 28% in this country, remain Republican. Results speak louder than denial.

Believe me, no one has to contribute to undermining the Bush administration. He does it all by himself, quite well, left to his own inhumane devices.

Gayle in Md.

Qtec
04-16-2007, 07:16 AM
Yes, you are right! /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif Lets forget the Govt breaking the law and concentrate on the Sandy B case!? /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif/ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

As usual, when it comes to Republicans breaking the law, your posts revert to the 'Clinton did it 'mode.
Pathetic.

IMO, if any e-mails are gone, it was done deliberatey. Even the most basic e-mail service can copy all your mails automatically. Even on my free hotmail account I can save 20 GB of mails.
Thats a lot of e-mails.

Q

Qtec
04-16-2007, 08:10 AM
web page (http://www.frameshopisopen.com/)

[ QUOTE ]
Frameshop:
Key to "Lost" Emails is "Who"

When a massive quantity of White House information is supposedly lost--four years and five million emails--the truth is that somebody made it happen, somebody wanted it all lost and did what was necessary to make it so.
In today's world, "lost" is what happens to socks in the washing machine, not what happens to political communication in the White House.
The question to ask in the case of the missing emails--four years and five million missing emails--is not, as the White House would have it, "Whose screw up resulted in the information being lost?" but the more accurate question, "Who gave the order to make it lost?"
We live in a world where a twelve-year-old with broadband and an iBook can find anything on the Internet in less time than it takes to microwave some mac and cheese. Ten minutes later, that same kid can download more pages onto the iPod jacked into their sweatshirt than in all the books in their school library. Maybe forty years ago we lived in a "global village," but we're in a "Google village," now--and we get there on the Fios freeway. This is not a world where "lost" and "information" are two concepts that make much sense.
If my house catches fire and collapses on my laptop, I can take the molten mass that remains to a specialist who can retrieve all my information and tell me the the name of the last person who sent me an instant message. "Lost" does not apply.
In this world of high-speed access, giga-downloads and cell-phone searches--for the White House to claim that they "screwed up" and lost four years and five million emails is to claim that they have transported the entire planet to the year 1971--back to a world where information is not something forever waiting to be found, recovered and reclaimed, but something dusty and yellow stacked in cardboard boxes. That was the world of "lost," not this world, not today.
In the world of 2007, information does not just vanish. Either somebody makes it go away or it lingers on far longer than any of us want. Either somebody decides they want information to disappear or that information sticks around like flypaper. If information is no longer searchable, recoverable, discoverable or downloadable, it is not because someone "screwed up," but because someone with power gave an order to someone with skills, "Make this information go away. I don't want some twelve-year-old kid with broadband and an iBook finding it."

<hr /></blockquote>

/ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Q

Qtec
04-16-2007, 08:23 AM
Thats the spin you are listening to.

Check this out.
. web page (http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/04/15/the-white-house-email-scandal-sorting-through-the-spin/#more-16289)

[ QUOTE ]

The goal here is to portray these White House staffers as honest civil servants trying their best to comply with two contradictory sets of legal mandates. And the White House has actually been pretty successful at selling this line, as evidenced by this paragraph from a recent New York Times story:

" At issue is how the White House complies with two seemingly competing laws. One is the 1978 Presidential Records Act, which requires the administration to ensure that its decisions and deliberations are “adequately documented” and that records flowing out of those decisions are preserved. The other is the Hatch Act, which prohibits federal officials from engaging in political business on government time."


But here's the thing. It's just not true. The Hatch Act and the Presidential Records Act are not "competing" laws. It's remarkably easy to comply with both. All you have to do is preserve your official communications.

The Presential Records Act simply requires that the President "take all such steps as may be necessary to assure that the activities, deliberations, decisions, and policies that reflect the performance of his constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties are adequately documented." He is directed to accomplish this "[t]hrough the implementation of records management controls and other necessary actions." The White House email system is set up to facilitate compliance with the Presidential Records Act, but it is not the exclusive means of doing so.

In other words, the problem here wasn't the use of the RNC accounts per se, but the fact that no one bothered to set up any controls on the RNC accounts to ensure that emails would be retained. A simple archiving program and some restrictions on manual deletions would have solved the problem. Instead, the accounts had a 30-day purge policy, meaning that if the entire White House staff had used free Gmail accounts, they would have enjoyed infinitely better document retention than what was provided by the RNC. But as John Cole put it the other day:

Losing emails from non-official servers run by the Republican party is not a bug, it is a feature. This wasn’t a mistake- it was a plan.

Compliance with the the Hatch Act was clearly a pretext for conducting official business "off the record," as evidenced by the willingness of Karl Rove and his staff to engage in blatant violations of the Hatch Act in other contexts. Are we really supposed to believe that the use of email was the one area where these guys were concerned about crossing the line? <hr /></blockquote>

Apparently Rove did 95% of his e-mailing thru the RNC knowing that they would be purged.

Q

eg8r
04-16-2007, 09:08 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Yes, you are right! Lets forget the Govt breaking the law and concentrate on the Sandy B case!? <hr /></blockquote> Just keeping the left in check.

eg8r

Qtec
04-16-2007, 09:09 AM
No. Its called going off topic/avoiding the issue! /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Q

hondo
04-16-2007, 09:12 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote llotter:</font><hr> The Left has been hurling scurrilous accusations at the administration for years and now, with subpoena power, I hope to see clearly just what asses they are. Of course, even with no evidence, there will be no slowing them down because bereft of anything constructive, conspiracy is all they have...empty jargon that they are experts at spinning. <hr /></blockquote>

Let's say you're right. How do you know this? It sure
sounds fishy to me.

hondo
04-16-2007, 09:17 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote llotter:</font><hr>

It is more likely that the situation is the product of unintended consequences of previous legislation than any evil design by the administration. But, as the Democrats well know, pointing the suspicious finger for political gain beats the truth any day, plus, they might just get to review the Republican political strategy. It looks like a win &amp;#8211; win for the Dems.

<hr /></blockquote>

LOL! I've been trying to figure out how you could
spin this to blame the Dems.
Jolly good, Larry.

hondo
04-16-2007, 09:19 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> &lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
Of course, evidence of the Clinton administration&amp;#8217;s wrong doing was everywhere and his fellow Democrats jumped through hoops ignoring it. And even though the main character escaped major penalties, many were found guilty and served jail time and many other plea bargained their way out. <hr /></blockquote> How about Sandy Berger. That fool got caught stealing the files. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif Yep, those Clintons were squeaky clean.

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>


So what, eg? What does this have to do with the thread?

eg8r
04-16-2007, 09:40 AM
Well it does not take a rocket scientist to read the quotes you provided and understand. Take a few minutes and actually read.

eg8r

eg8r
04-16-2007, 09:41 AM
It is always off-topic when you need to reel the left back in. You don't know when to stop so we have to bring you back. Actually it was part of the topic of the post that I responded to, but you knew that already.

eg8r

pooltchr
04-16-2007, 06:38 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote hondo:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote llotter:</font><hr> The Left has been hurling scurrilous accusations at the administration for years and now, with subpoena power, I hope to see clearly just what asses they are. Of course, even with no evidence, there will be no slowing them down because bereft of anything constructive, conspiracy is all they have...empty jargon that they are experts at spinning. <hr /></blockquote>

Let's say you're right. How do you know this? It sure
sounds fishy to me. <hr /></blockquote>

If all Republicans are crooked and corrupt and ignorant, what does that say about a Democrat majority that can make all these accusations, but can't seem to make them stick? A large number of Republicans have been accused of a lot of illegal activity, but not many are behind bars. Are the Democrats bigger idiots than they say the Republicans are???????????????????
Steve

Gayle in MD
04-16-2007, 06:43 PM
[ QUOTE ]
A large number of Republicans have been accused of a lot of illegal activity, but not many are behind bars. <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="red">Ha ha ha, where'd you get that idea? Have you forgotten Wendy's long long list of indicted Republicans? It's a good deal longer, now. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif </font color>

Gayle in Md.

pooltchr
04-16-2007, 06:54 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> &lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
A large number of Republicans have been accused of a lot of illegal activity, but not many are behind bars. <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="red">Ha ha ha, where'd you get that idea? Have you forgotten Wendy's long long list of indicted Republicans? It's a good deal longer, now. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif </font color>

Gayle in Md. <hr /></blockquote>
There is a difference between being indicted and being convicted.
Steve

Gayle in MD
04-16-2007, 07:12 PM
The conviction list is pretty long, also, Steve. would be even longer if Bush and friends would stop destroying evidence. Public watch groups are now calling for Fitzgerald to re-open the Plame case sicn documents have emerged from the Special Prosecutors office stating the e0mails were also missing from the White House subpeonaed papers, and he was told they were lost. I guess Bush. (et al) is as good at losing documents as he is at losing the confidence of the majority of Americans. Gee, wonder if those two are connected???

Gayle in Md.

hondo
04-17-2007, 05:50 AM
LMAO! Are you proud of the fact that "not many" are
behind bars and the Dems are dumber than they are?
Talk about twisted thinking. God help America!



<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote hondo:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote llotter:</font><hr> The Left has been hurling scurrilous accusations at the administration for years and now, with subpoena power, I hope to see clearly just what asses they are. Of course, even with no evidence, there will be no slowing them down because bereft of anything constructive, conspiracy is all they have...empty jargon that they are experts at spinning. <hr /></blockquote>

Let's say you're right. How do you know this? It sure
sounds fishy to me. <hr /></blockquote>

If all Republicans are crooked and corrupt and ignorant, what does that say about a Democrat majority that can make all these accusations, but can't seem to make them stick? A large number of Republicans have been accused of a lot of illegal activity, but not many are behind bars. Are the Democrats bigger idiots than they say the Republicans are???????????????????
Steve <hr /></blockquote>

eg8r
04-17-2007, 08:48 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> A large number of Republicans have been accused of a lot of illegal activity, but not many are behind bars. <blockquote><font class="small">Quote gayle:</font><hr> Ha ha ha, where'd you get that idea? Have you forgotten Wendy's long long list of indicted Republicans? <hr /></blockquote> <hr /></blockquote> Now, maybe you misread Steve's post, or you decided to completely ignore it, but there is a difference between indictment and jail time. Steve said not many are behind bars and while laughing you incorrectly refer to a list of people indicted. Apples and Oranges.

eg8r

wolfdancer
04-17-2007, 02:52 PM
I guess that you think if someone is not behind bars then he is not guilty? That's what people thought about John Gotti as well......and O.J.
I'll give your crooked pols credit for being smart enough to not only "steal" but to cover up the evidence as best they could.....
This would have to be the biggest conspiracy in history....to fabricate all these charges and accusations ....and many of them by former "insiders"

pooltchr
04-17-2007, 07:04 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote hondo:</font><hr> LMAO! Are you proud of the fact that "not many" are
behind bars and the Dems are dumber than they are?
Talk about twisted thinking. God help America!



<hr /></blockquote>

I personally don't hold the politicians of either party in very high regard. Just pointing out that a lot of people accuse the president of not being very smart. Apparently, he's not as dumb as some would have us think he is. It's either that, or there isn't enough evidence to convict him of any wrongdoing.
Can't have it both ways... /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
Steve

Gayle in MD
04-18-2007, 08:37 AM
Ever heard of Bush's brain? Karl Rove, and Dick Cheney, are the ones who manage to arrange for others going to jail. Why do you think that aide to Gonzales is threatening to take the fifth. Ianyone who can't see how they, Bush, Cheney and Rove, operate by now, isn't paying very close attention. Remsfeld is gone, too. Now he can take the blame for losing the war, as though George Bush and Cheney had no say in his outrageous incompetence, and bull headd leadership. The C.I.A. is blamed for giving bad information, in spite of the fact that they hit a brick wall from bush and cheney and Libby, every time they didn't come up with the intel the administration wanted. Cheney even put his own cabal of administration insiders into the C.I.A., establishing a hidden intelligence finding group withint the C.I.A. to sift through and cherry pick, and some some cases, create intelligence to scare the American people, intimidate the congress, and build a false case of occupying Iraq, by framing it withint the 9/11 disaster. If that isn't deceit, coming from a man who assured Americans that his administration would be reluctant to use military force and did not believe that the United States should engage in "Nation Building."

<font color="red">On and after January 20, 2001, Bush and Cheney caused to be appointed as senior foreign policy advisors, and consultants, at least thirty-four persons who had publicly endorsed the PNAC princip0les of United States global preeminence and use of force to "punish" or "threaten to punish" emerging threats from weapons of mass destruction or impediments to United States access to oil in the Middle East. Of those appointees, eighteen had also publicly advocated forcibly removing Saddam Hussein.

Bush-Cheney administration members began discussing an invasion of iraq immediately after 9/11. Bush, Rumsfeld and others also assigned various subordinates, including former counterterrorism czar Richare Clarke, CIA director George Tenet, and Ganeral Richard Meyers to look for intelligence that could justify an attack.

On or about September 17, 2001, Bush secretly ordered the formulation of preliminary plans for an invasion of Iraq, while admitting to his aides that no evidence existed to justify an attack.

On September 18, 2001, in response to Bush's request, clarke sent Rice a memo that stated: (a) the case for linking Hussein to 9/11 was weak; (b) only anecdotal evidence linked Hussein to al Qaeda: (c) Osama Bin Laden resented the secularism of Saddam Hussein; and (d) there was no confirmed reporting of Saddam cooperating with Bin Laden on unconventional weapons. The December 2000 NIE unanimously concluded that Iraq did not appear to have reconstituted its nuclear weapons program. On November 21, 2001, Bush secretaly ordered preparation of a formal war plan for invading Iraq. Therefore for sixteen months, the Bush-cheney administration expended substatial US government funds in military activity and planning for invasion of Iraq, all without notice to, or approval by, the US Congress. Bush did not receive an extensive briefing about possible WMD in Iraq before ordering a war plan, nor did he discuss the legitimacy of grounds for war with anyone. Bush received nosuch briefing until December 21,2002. On or about July 30, 2002, without approval by, or notice to, Congress, Bush caused the diversion of $700 million from Afghanistan war funds into iraq invasion preparations. On September 5, 2002, without approval by, or notice to, congress, Bush caused approximately 100 United States and British aircraft to launch ballistic missiles at Iraq['s major western air defense facility. By September 12, 2002, without approval by, or notice to, Congress, Bush has caused the movement of 40.000 military personnal and 9over 350,000 tons of equipment to areas around Iraq, and through General Franks, ordered Central Command to be moved to Al Udeid Air Base near Doha Qatar.

</font color>

The way this man goes about his business as president would be appropriate if he were King, maybe, but even then, he would have to get approval from, and information to, the Parliament.

This is a sneaky bunch of SOB's, who think they can do anything they want, and because of a blank check Congress, they could, and whenever they're caught in law breaking, and wrong doing, immediately they start blaming others. They have made outrageous statements, saying the United States does not support torture, while they send people to other countries to torture them. They say that the congress voted for this war, while the truth is that it was launched before Congress knew anything about it. They used the war, as a way to usurp power, and get re-elected, by scaring the American public, with lies. If that isn't treason, I don't know what is. And removing the Republican majority, removed his blank check. Now the investigation will prove just how common and decietful they all are, and I for one, cannot wait to view the disclosures of just how common and calculating they have been, as our people die for their mistakes and deciet.

Gayle in Md.
"

Gayle in MD
04-18-2007, 09:03 AM
There are so many in jail, I've lost count, but there are many more to come, as Abramoff is now naming names, and cutting himself a nice deal to minimize his jail time. Gonzales's aide being offered a deal to tell the truth, and is anybody wondering why Dick Cheney, hasn't "Had the occasion" to talk with the man whom he knows damn well took the fall for him?

Regardless of how we banter here, the good news is that there are only 28% in this country who call themselves Republicans...and we know about their "Problem" with determining reality from fantasy. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

The overall picture is quite evident to the rest of us...Bush is the worst president in history, and the Republican majority is responsible for allowing him to continue to put our people in harm's way, with their blank checks, unconstitutionally, illegally, and immorally. Lies are lies, but lies that kill are the worst of all lies, and liars who tell them, are responsible for their deaths. They're pure evil, to the core.

Gayle in Md.

Gayle in Md

eg8r
04-18-2007, 09:06 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I guess that you think if someone is not behind bars then he is not guilty? <hr /></blockquote> You might want to read up on the presumption of innocence.

[ QUOTE ]
I'll give your crooked pols credit for being smart enough to not only "steal" but to cover up the evidence as best they could.....
<hr /></blockquote> Berger was a sure let down wouldn't you say?

eg8r

eg8r
04-18-2007, 09:11 AM
[ QUOTE ]
There are so many in jail, I've lost count, but there are many more to come, as Abramoff is now naming names, and cutting himself a nice deal to minimize his jail time. <hr /></blockquote> Sure hope none of those names are Democrats.

[ QUOTE ]
Regardless of how we banter here, the good news is that there are only 28% in this country who call themselves Republicans... <hr /></blockquote> LOL, this is the funniest stat and I love it when you use it.

[ QUOTE ]
Lies are lies, but lies that kill are the worst of all lies, <hr /></blockquote> Sorry but you can't have both, if a lie is a lie, then one is not worse than the other.

eg8r

Gayle in MD
04-18-2007, 09:41 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Sorry but you can't have both, if a lie is a lie, then one is not worse than the other.

<hr /></blockquote>

<font color="red">You're quite wrong about that. I can have it anyway I like, since I'm entitled to my own opinion. And, further, most people agree with me, not you, like the entire Roman Catholic Church, for example, and many other religions which distinguish between lies of convenience, and lies which hurt others. Only you and Steve, think a lie about an affair as as bad as a lie that leads a whole country into an un-necessary war, causes death and destruction to hundreds of thousands of people, and the loss of limbs and brain function.

Tell me, did Bush lie, when he told you he was not going to Nation Build? did he lie when he said he was for small government, and against extravagant spending? did his Daddy lie when he said "REad My Lips, No New Taxes." Dick Cheney lie when he said alQaeda was hooked up with Saddam? That "There is not doubt that Iraq has reconstituted their weeapons of mass destruction program" knowing full well that he created his own intelligence for such a statement?

I really don't think you want to deal with any Republicans lies, Ed. People post things here that are true, then you call them liars because you, of all people, cannot stand the truth, and deny consistantly things that have been proven, so while you have a right to do so, you have no right to call others liars, simply because you don't agree with them. In fact, to do so is quite rude, and childish, precisely what you continually accuse others, of being.</font color>

/ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

eg8r
04-18-2007, 09:44 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Question.
If you had a buisiness and were required by law to keep records for 5 years [ for the IRS say] and they ask you for your records and your reply is "sorry, because of a pc glitch, all data is lost." Your a$$ woukld be grass!
The Govt has a DUTY to comply with the law. They should be brought , under oath, to testify how this 'miracle' occured. <hr /></blockquote> Where was the question? It looked like you started along the lines of a question but then you trailed off and answered yourself.

eg8r

eg8r
04-18-2007, 09:55 AM
What's up with the different colors. It is quite easy to see where the quote ends and your text begins.

[ QUOTE ]
I can have it anyway I like, since I'm entitled to my own opinion. <hr /></blockquote> Not when you opinion is broadcast for others to reply.

[ QUOTE ]
And, further, most people agree with me <hr /></blockquote> Once again, thank goodness our forefathers were smart enough to not make the US a democracy.

[ QUOTE ]
Tell me, did Bush lie, when he told you he was not going to Nation Build? <hr /></blockquote> Sure. Thank goodness it became a lie otherwise Saddam would still be in control.

[ QUOTE ]
did he lie when he said he was for small government, and against extravagant spending? <hr /></blockquote> Yes and yes. Hasn't this been covered a million times on the board? Why do you need me to keep repeating it?

[ QUOTE ]
did his Daddy lie when he said "REad My Lips, No New Taxes." <hr /></blockquote> Yes, I think he did increase some taxes.

[ QUOTE ]
Dick Cheney lie when he said alQaeda was hooked up with Saddam? <hr /></blockquote> No.

[ QUOTE ]
That "There is not doubt that Iraq has reconstituted their weeapons of mass destruction program" knowing full well that he created his own intelligence for such a statement?
<hr /></blockquote> I cannot answer this question because you have added your own flair for reality.

[ QUOTE ]
I really don't think you want to deal with any Republicans lies, Ed. <hr /></blockquote> What you cannot handle is the fact that I do deal with their lies. You on the other hand give your own guys a free ride. Pelosi is just the latest, however I remember the last time we talked about this you gave your guy a free ride on his lie because his "memory magically got better" when jail time was evident. I am not the one acting like a hypocrite here.

[ QUOTE ]
People post things here that are true, then you call them liars because you, of all people, cannot stand the truth, and deny consistantly things that have been proven, <hr /></blockquote> Here is another lie, none of your posts are ever proven. They are only accusations. I might have to take back the name calling and calling you a liar. I think a better description is ignorant. You don't know the difference between accusation and proof.

[ QUOTE ]
In fact, to do so is quite rude <hr /></blockquote> I have definitely been called that before. No doubt it was probably earned, but I have no regrets that the truth might be a little sharp for some to handle.

eg8r

wolfdancer
04-18-2007, 10:49 AM
"....that the truth might be a little sharp for some to handle."

At last, something we can agree upon.....
I think it's "big" of you to own up to that....it's your first step towards a total catharsis /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Gayle in MD
04-18-2007, 11:07 AM
So far, none of the authors from whom I take information, nor the Iraq Study group, nor the 16 National Security Agencies which I base my statements upon, have been sued, or shot down for being wrong in their estimates, and in fact, as time has gone on, more and more of the things I have written about on this board have been proven to be correct, and more and more of your "Opinions" have been proven to be way off base, nor have YOU provided any opposing information to prove my statements wrong. All you can do is insult people. That's your forte'. I don't know why I bother responding to your posts, since you are compoletely unable to make a point, without lies, and insults.

Gayle in Md.

eg8r
04-18-2007, 11:09 AM
[ QUOTE ]
So far, none of the authors from whom I take information, nor the Iraq Study group, nor the 16 National Security Agencies which I base my statements upon, have been sued, or shot down for being wrong in their estimates, and in fact, as time has gone on, more and more of the things I have written about on this board have been proven to be correct, <hr /></blockquote> Accusations that is all you have. If anything was ever proven correct Pelosi would be President and W would be in jail. How did you make it this far in life avoiding reality?

eg8r

Gayle in MD
04-18-2007, 12:03 PM
Your choice is to ignore literally dozens and dozens of books, written by as many resprecte authors, and people in government, CIA, DOD, DOJ, Army, Navy, Airforce, at every level, who have all written about the same things of which I write, and the Constitution of The United States Of America.

You're in complete denial, along with George Bush, Dick Cheney, Gates, Rice, and the nutty 28% who still support an incompetent liar. Neither you, or George Bush, gives a damn about what our troops are going through.

gayle in Md.

eg8r
04-18-2007, 12:08 PM
[ QUOTE ]
You're in complete denial, along with George Bush, Dick Cheney, Gates, Rice, and the nutty 28% who still support an incompetent liar. Neither you, or George Bush, gives a damn about what our troops are going through.
<hr /></blockquote> Great. Now with that off your chest you can take your pills and go back to fantasy land.

eg8r

Gayle in MD
04-18-2007, 12:18 PM
I don't take any pills, nor am I the one in fantasy land. George Bush, and you, are the ones who are in fantasy land, and the majority of this country, and Iraqis, know it.

WE are spinning our wheels in Iraq, putting our country at risk, and bin Laden is still making his plans, with an all new emboldened force of terrorists, who are getting their training in the safe harbor that George Bush created for them, in Iraq, and Afghanistan. Who is for the Terrorists? Those are the Facts.

Gayle in Md.

wolfdancer
04-18-2007, 12:47 PM
Ed, let me help you out here a bit. This would be an implied question. Most readers could automatically add in the missing preface.."what would you do....if..."
Say, you don't have dyslexia do you?....it's nothing to be ashamed of, and can explain away your reading disabilities /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

eg8r
04-18-2007, 01:37 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Who is for the Terrorists? <hr /></blockquote> Their mothers? Their sponsors? I don't know, who said anyone was "for them"?

eg8r

Gayle in MD
04-18-2007, 02:39 PM
Appease means to pacify, conciliate, and it was Bush who gave them what they wanted, not Nancy Pelosi. Bush gave them a place to train, gave credibility to their statements against the United States, and emboldened their cause, which is to bring more radical Islamists to their way of thinking, or hating Americans.

You said Pelosi is appeasing them. That is false. Pelosi wants our troops to concentrate on getting alQaeda, and get out of the Iraqi Civil War. Bush is the one appeasing terrorists, and Iraq, who both want to see us run our armed forces into the ground, run up debt, and stay in the Middle East, fighting a losing battle, between Sunni and shiia.

Nothing you say has any basis in fact. Everything you say is the opposite of what our own 16 National Secxurity Agencies contend.

And YOU have many times on this forum written things about the left being terrorist lovers. YOU said it, that's who.

Gayle in Md.

eg8r
04-18-2007, 03:57 PM
Pelosi has given them everything wanted. To say Bush did is just stupid. I surely bet Bin Laden did not want to live in a cave on the run and I bet the Taliban did not want their sites bombed to kingdom come. I bet Saddam did not want to be found hiding in his underwear in a cave or worse, he probably did not want to be dead now. Bush has done more for the US than Pelosi ever could. Pelosi has just appeased the terrorists and misrepresented Israel. She is an appeaser and by agreeing with her actions you are also.

eg8r

llotter
04-18-2007, 04:47 PM
How do you know that there was any official business conducted on the RNC email accounts?

Gayle in MD
04-18-2007, 06:35 PM
16 American National Security Agencies disagree with you. Their conclusions are that we are in more danger, because of Bush's policies, and bin Laden, alQaeda, and other spin off terrorists organizations, have been emboldened by Bush's policies. That we have gained many enemies around the world because of Bush's policies, and that we have lost many allies, because of Bush's policies, and that this mess in Iraq, is militarily unwinnable, and the Generals all believe that it is too late for a surge of troops to do any good, or provide any safety, because there are not enough troops to do so. Those are the facts. ARe you trying to say that all those experts are wrong, and you are right? They are all wrong and Bush, who has been wrong about everything, is right?

Don't talk to me about fantasies, Ed, you live in the middle of a colossal fantasy, created and sold to you by the republican National committee, compliments of Karl Rove, and Dick Cheney, Bush isn't smart enough to do anything but what they tell him to do. H failed at everything he ever tried, just like he's failing right now, but others are paying the price with their lives.

Gayle in Md,

eg8r
04-18-2007, 07:22 PM
[ QUOTE ]
16 American National Security Agencies disagree with you. <hr /></blockquote> I feel honored but surely they don't disagree with me. I am just a lowly honest tax paying citizen. They have their own agenda.

eg8r

Gayle in MD
04-18-2007, 07:47 PM
16 National Security Agencies, say that Bush's policies have created disasterous consequences. therefore, you should atleast admit, that according to our best and brightest, bush has made everything worse. So say all of them. You think they're lying to us, LMAO!

Ed, the only person I know of in an equal state of denial to yours, is George Bush. but even George, isn't believing his stories like you do. He knows he's lying.

How long must our troops give their lives for the benefit of Iraqis, who think it is OK to kill them?

wolfdancer
04-18-2007, 08:02 PM
There's probably less then 1000 people in the world that want us in Iraq......996 are war profiteers, the other 4 post here ...lucky us!!!

Gayle in MD
04-18-2007, 08:05 PM
/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Qtec
04-19-2007, 05:44 AM
eg8r is digressing. The fact is the Govt has a duty to coply with the law. They should have made sure that every e-mail was saved. They didn't. There is no excuse. It must be seen as a deliberate way to decieve the public and avoid any scrutiny of their unlawful practices. The present Govt has a long list of failling to provide documents. [ The 9/11 comission report, which was cliamed to have been complete, just recently heard of a meeting shortly before 9/11 [ warning of an imminent attack,] that Condi denied had ever taken place! Gayle commented on it earlier and I think it deserves another mention.]

They/the Govt have to prove that this was a mistake, not the other way round!

Q

wolfdancer
04-19-2007, 01:50 PM
When will the right learn not to put anything down in print, even electronic print??....it can come back to haunt them...
For my bi-partisan good deed for the day....I want to suggest for them "prepaid, throw away, cell phones"

Jackson123r
06-27-2007, 05:11 AM
Post deleted by ccboard_admin

pooltchr
06-27-2007, 05:46 AM
Post deleted by ccboard_admin

DickLeonard
06-27-2007, 07:24 AM
Eg8r if Bush did nothing wrong why would he Pardon himself. At some point in time he will convicted of War Crimes even in Absentia.####