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Qtec
04-16-2007, 09:07 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Exceprt from Where Have All the Leaders Gone
by Lee Iacocca with Katherine Whitney
I
Had Enough?
Am I the only guy in this country whoís fed up with whatís happening? Where the hell is our outrage? We should be screaming bloody murder. Weíve got a gang of clueless bozos steering our ship of state right over a cliff, weíve got corporate gangsters stealing us blind, and we canít even clean up after a hurricane much less build a hybrid car. But instead of getting mad, everyone sits around and nods their heads when the politicians say, ďStay the course.Ē
Stay the course? Youíve got to be kidding. This is America, not the damned Titanic. Iíll give you a sound bite: Throw the bums out!
You might think Iím getting senile, that Iíve gone off my rocker, and maybe I have. But someone has to speak up. I hardly recognize this country anymore. The President of the United States is given a free pass to ignore the Constitution, tap our phones, and lead us to war on a pack of lies. Congress responds to record deficits by passing a huge tax cut for the wealthy (thanks, but I donít need it). The most famous business leaders are not the innovators but the guys in handcuffs. While weíre fiddling in Iraq, the Middle East is burning and nobody seems to know what to do. And the press is waving pom-poms instead of asking hard questions. Thatís not the promise of America my parents and yours traveled across the ocean for. Iíve had enough. How about you?
Iíll go a step further. You canít call yourself a patriot if youíre not outraged. This is a fight Iím ready and willing to have.
My friends tell me to calm down. They say, ďLee, youíre eighty-two years old. Leave the rage to the young people.Ē Iíd love toóas soon as I can pry them away from their iPods for five seconds and get them to pay attention. Iím going to speak up because itís my patriotic duty. I think people will listen to me. They say I have a reputation as a straight shooter. So Iíll tell you how I see it, and itís not pretty, but at least itís real. Iím hoping to strike a nerve in those young folks who say they donít vote because they donít trust politicians to represent their interests. Hey, America, wake up. These guys work for us.
Who Are These Guys, Anyway?
Why are we in this mess? How did we end up with this crowd in Washington? Well, we voted for themóor at least some of us did. But Iíll tell you what we didnít do. We didnít agree to suspend the Constitution. We didnít agree to stop asking questions or demanding answers. Some of us are sick and tired of people who call free speech treason. Where I come from thatís a dictatorship, not a democracy.
And donít tell me itís all the fault of right-wing Republicans or liberal Democrats. Thatís an intellectually lazy argument, and itís part of the reason weíre in this stew. Weíre not just a nation of factions. Weíre a people. We share common principles and ideals. And we rise and fall together.
Where are the voices of leaders who can inspire us to action and make us stand taller? What happened to the strong and resolute party of Lincoln? What happened to the courageous, populist party of FDR and Truman? There was a time in this country when the voices of great leaders lifted us up and made us want to do better. Where have all the leaders gone?
The Test of a Leader
Iíve never been Commander in Chief, but Iíve been a CEO. I understand a few things about leadership at the top. Iíve figured out nine pointsónot ten (I donít want people accusing me of thinking Iím Moses). I call them the ďNine Cs of Leadership.Ē Theyíre not fancy or complicated. Just clear, obvious qualities that every true leader should have. We should look at how the current administration stacks up. Like it or not, this crew is going to be around until January 2009. Maybe we can learn something before we go to the polls in 2008. Then letís be sure we use the leadership test to screen the candidates who say they want to run the country. Itís up to us to choose wisely.
So, hereís my C list:



<hr /></blockquote> lee blasts george (http://liberalvaluesblog.com/?p=1387)

/ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Q...he's right /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif

wolfdancer
04-16-2007, 10:13 AM
Q, Mr.Iacocca has written the best summary of this insanity, that I have read
"You canít call yourself a patriot if youíre not outraged"
"We didnít agree to stop asking questions or demanding answers. Some of us are sick and tired of people who call free speech treason"
I'd give George a "D" on each of Lee's nine "C"s....and that would be generous.
If GWB's non-actions during and after 9/11 and Katrina....weren't proof enough of the total ineptness of this man....maybe this article...and forthcoming book, will have some people (none here, of course) rethinking their undying faith in this pathetically incompetent,President

Gayle in MD
04-16-2007, 10:41 AM
Bravo, and a big thanks, Q! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif You made my day with this.

[ QUOTE ]
A leader has to show CURIOSITY. He has to listen to people outside of the ďYes, sirĒ crowd in his inner circle. He has to read voraciously, because the world is a big, complicated place. <hr /></blockquote>
<font color="red">One mught also say, </font color>

<font color="red">A voter </font color> has to show CURIOSITY. He has to listen to people outside of the ďYes, sirĒ crowd in his inner circle. He has to read voraciously, because the world is a big, complicated place.

I find it very distressing to learn how many Americans are not reading the books written by the experts, and those former insiders in this administration, who have seen the light about Bush, the many many retired Generals, former Drug Czars, C.I.A., National security experts, former Presidents and Secretaries Of State. One only has to read some of the posts on this board to get the chilling affect that comes from understanding just how apathetic many Americans have become. I find it extremely sad, and alarming, that after such a horrible attack on 9/11, followed by the Bush attack on our courage, principles, laws and our Constitution, and most of all, his arrogance in thinking that he could disregard the collective intelligence of the majority of Americans, (except for the nutty 28%, that is) That there are americans who are not reading, not searching, not studying to find the best possible version of the truth, is the antithesis of a partiotic response, and particularly at a time of such dire importance.



Gayle in Md.

"There is a class war going on in American, and my class is winning." Warren Buffet

wolfdancer
04-16-2007, 11:21 AM
It was a great article.....I'll be interested in any derogatory comments from the "usual suspects" here. Hard to vilify someone though, with his credentials. Maybe if they weren't so tied into the war "payola", more business leaders would speak up against this "rat pack" that has infested the White House

Gayle in MD
04-16-2007, 11:42 AM
Lee Ioacocca, Donald Trump, and Warren Buffet, have all spoken up against this administration.

The list of Generals, is the most impressive of all, IMO. There are more and more retired and even retired Brigadier Generals, who taught strategy, and combat strategy, calling for Bush to remove our forces from the middle of the Iraqi Civil War. The recent Pentagon statement; violence is worse than ever. We need to impeach George Bush. It is the only way to prevent him from sending more Americans to their deaths and destruction, to benefit his already ruined reputation as a president, and allow him to attempt to use their blood to erase the tarnish of losing the very war, which he was told over and over, not to launch, and lied us into, in the first place.

Gayle in Md.

wolfdancer
04-16-2007, 12:33 PM
This Presidency in it's totality, has been a failure. No truer words were spoken then the ones by GWB himself....the highlight of his admin was catching 3 fish....
While his clear lack of leadership glared out from the TV, after 9/11 and Katrina....we'll probably never know the true reasons behind the paths he has led the country down...were they criminal, or the lunacy of a religious fanatic?
Given his role in Harken Energy, and his two brothers involvement in indictable business dealings, his preemptive pardon, the blank check profits of this war....I'd vote for criminal....

Gayle in MD
04-16-2007, 12:51 PM
"Unless America goes back to doing the same things we did before 9/11, the terrorist will win."

Too bad he didn't take his own advice!

I don't think there has ever been a time when a President has committed so many impeachable offenses, yet put the country in such peril, that most in Congress believe the country cannot take the time away from trying to deal with the results of his law breaking, because they are so very dire.

IMO, Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Powell, Rice, Hadley, Feith, Wolfowitz and Pearle... should be prosecuted for treason, at the very least.

Gayle in Md.

DickLeonard
04-16-2007, 01:12 PM
Gayle I don't want to waste any time with the Wackos, So I will write a short one word that will say it all. AMEN.####

Gayle in MD
04-16-2007, 02:25 PM
As employees of the Executive Branch, Bush, Cheney, Rice Rumsfled, and Powell, were governed by Executive Orders 12674 and 12731. These orders provide that Executive Branch Employees hold their positions as a public trust in accordance with certain ethical standards and principles. These include abiding by the constitution and laws of the United STates, as well as not using their offices to further private goals and interests.

Pursuant to the Constitution, their oaths of office, their status as Executive Branch employees, and their presence in the United States, Bush, et al, and their subordinates and employees, are required to obey title 18, United Stated Code, Section 371, which prohibits conspiracies to defraud the United States.

As used in Section 371, the term "to defraud the United States" means "to interfere with or obstruct one of its lawful government functions by deciet, craft, trickery, or at least by means that are dishonest. The term also means to "impair, obstruct, or defeat the lawful finction of any department of government" by the use of "false or fraudulent pretenses or represeentations."

A "false or fraudulent" representation is one that is: (a) made with knowledge that it is untrue; (b) a half-truth; (c) made without a reasonable basis or with reckless indifference as to whether it is, in fact, true or false; or (d) literally true, but intentionally presented in a manner reasonably calculated to deceive a person of ordinary prudence and intelligence. he knowing concealment or omission of information that a reasonable person would consider important in deciding an issue also constitutes fraud.

Congress is a "department of the United States" within the meaning of Section 371. In addition, hearings regarding funding for military action and authorization to use military force are "lawful functions of Congress"

Accordingly, the presentation of information to Congress and the general public through deceit, craft, trickery, dishonest means, and fraudulent representations, including lies, half truths, material omissions, and statements made with reckless indifference to their truth or falsity, while knowing and intending that such fraudulent representations would influence Congress' decisions regarding authorization to use military force and finding for military action, constitutes interfering with, obstructing, impairing, and defeating a lawful government function of a department of the United States within the meaning of Section 371.

Beginning on or about a date unknown, but no later than August of 2002, and continuing to the present, in the District Of Columbia and elsewhere, the defendants, George W. Bush, Richard b. Cheney, condoleezza rice, Donald M. Rumsfeld, and Colin Powell, and others known and unknown, did knowingly and intentionally conspire to defraud the United States by using deceit, craft, trickery, dishonest means, false and fraudulent representations, including ones made without a reasonable basis and with reckless indifference to their truth or falsity, and omitting to state material facts necessary to make their representations truthful, fair and accurate, while knowing and intending that their false and fraudulent representations would influence the public and the deliberations of Congress with regard to authorization of a preventive war against Iraq, thereby defeating, obstructing, impairing and interfering with congress' lawful function of overseeing foreign affairs, and making appropriations.

U.S. V. George W.Bush et al.

Elizabeth de la Vega

Ms. de la Vega, former Federal Prosecutor, presently retired, then goes on to name every single piece of evidence which proves the case against Bush et al, beginning with their signatures on the letter entitled, The Project For The New American Century which includes the signatures of many of the members of The American Enterprise Institute, who's donations come almost completely from Corporations with ties to the Oil Industry, and the Industrial Military Complex, ..., War Contractors, civilian and military.

Gayle in Md.

DickLeonard
04-16-2007, 03:56 PM
Gayle keeping it short again "WHAT VILLIANS". ####

pooltchr
04-16-2007, 06:49 PM
Gayle,
IF all that is true, why aren't they all in prison? I don't suppose it could be for lack of evidence, could it?
Steve

Gayle in MD
04-16-2007, 06:54 PM
Have you forgotten the pictures of the paper crushing truck, loaded down to the ground, leaving Cheney's house.

Five million missing e-mails?

E-mails missing in the Libby investigation, also.

Hey,I'm fed up that the Democrats are not launching impeachment proceedings. But, I'm working every day, to help to bring them about. Wait till the 28th of this month...the Impeachment movement is growing by leaps and bounds.

Sometime tomorrow, I will give more documentation to follow up on this post. There is plenty of it.

Gayle in Md.

eg8r
04-17-2007, 09:11 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Gayle,
IF all that is true, why aren't they all in prison? I don't suppose it could be for lack of evidence, could it? <hr /></blockquote> Steve, the only excuse they could give for the Plame non-issue was that it was very hard to prove. All they ever have is accusations with no solid proof of anything.

eg8r

wolfdancer
04-17-2007, 02:11 PM
Using your flawed logic...if all this is a lie....isnt it then libel?
And wouldnt these fine men want to clear their names in a court of law?
The many resignations then....are just a coincidence?
If neither of you realise by now what Bush is capable of, what he did to lead us into this war, and the damage he has done to this country.....you must be denying every damaging and revealing report that has surfaced.....

Gayle in MD
04-17-2007, 05:15 PM
like I said, my dear friend, roughly 28% in this country, are nuts!

The extreme right....hey, what can I tellya! /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Qtec
04-17-2007, 07:25 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> Using your flawed logic...if all this is a lie....isnt it then libel?
And wouldnt these fine men want to clear their names in a court of law?
<hr /></blockquote>

Brilliant Wolf. Well done. Can't wait to hear eg8r's answer- if he has one!

LMAO

Q..........well Ed? Why no libel cases when everyone is telling lies about your good honest patriots Dick, George, Rummy etc?.

In the Attorney case I'm waiting with baited breath to hear Gooding's testimony.
Oh, I forgot, she is pleading the Fifth. LOL.........and she hasn't even been asked a question!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What a joke!

Q

Qtec
04-17-2007, 07:36 PM
Notice how eg8r IGNORES my post and starts off by changing the subject to the Plame [ non issue] affair! LOL To me its proof positive that GW and his admin have proved themselves so incompetent, untrustworthy and lacking in vision that they can no more be defended by reasoned argument. ie, Reps will no longer discuss any subject!

eg, today the 0/11 4 released a staement commenting on how the Govt recieved repeated forewarnings of an attack on the USA.
eg8r's reply would be, wait for it, "what about Clinton............."
/ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Q

eg8r
04-18-2007, 09:29 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Using your flawed logic...if all this is a lie....isnt it then libel?
And wouldnt these fine men want to clear their names in a court of law? <hr /></blockquote> The logic is not flawed, it is just reality. There is no reason to go after then for libel because non-issues just go away.

[ QUOTE ]
The many resignations then....are just a coincidence?
<hr /></blockquote> Unlike you, I will not pretend to know the real truth behind them. At least these guys get a chance to resign, all Clinton's guys were getting killed.

eg8r

eg8r
04-18-2007, 09:30 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Q..........well Ed? Why no libel cases when everyone is telling lies about your good honest patriots Dick, George, Rummy etc?. <hr /></blockquote> Watch out wolf, Q might steal the question and act like it is his.

eg8r

eg8r
04-18-2007, 09:32 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Notice how eg8r IGNORES my post and starts off by changing the subject to the Plame [ non issue] affair! LOL To me its proof positive that GW and his admin have proved themselves so incompetent, untrustworthy and lacking in vision that they can no more be defended by reasoned argument. <hr /></blockquote> Your posts are not reasonable so why would someone want to have a reasoned argument with you. You are a nobody outsider whose opinion means nothing.

eg8r

Qtec
04-18-2007, 09:47 AM
[ QUOTE ]
You are a nobody outsider whose opinion means nothing. <hr /></blockquote>
An outsider Ed? Is that what I am?
What exactly does YOUR opinion mean? [ this should be fascinating-LOL]

Q /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Bobbyrx
04-18-2007, 09:53 AM
Here's one of the ususal suspects. Lee Ioacocca lost all credibility when he got loan guarantees from the government (somehow) to build back a private company. Must be nice. They wouldn't do that for me or you unless there was a prid pro quo. You don't think............ Nah, but I sure like those Snoop Dogg commercials

eg8r
04-18-2007, 09:57 AM
[ QUOTE ]
An outsider Ed? Is that what I am?
<hr /></blockquote> I did not think this needed to be clarified but I have forgotten about your comprehension issue. When we are talking about politics in the US and other US issues you are an outsider. Live with it, your opinion means nothing.

eg8r

Gayle in MD
04-18-2007, 10:07 AM
Another rude nasty post from the post police. Amazing how authoritarian lovers always think they have a right to dictate to others, and even set their value, on an international forum, where all have a right to free speech. Just who do you think you are, Ed, you don't speak for everyone here. Q, isn't doing a damn thing that you haven't done over and over. You post your opinions about other countries of which you are not a citizen, also, so quit calling the kettle black, as you so often like to accuse others of doing. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

pooltchr
06-26-2007, 06:46 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> like I said, my dear friend, roughly 28% in this country, are nuts!

The extreme right....hey, what can I tellya! /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif <hr /></blockquote>

I think you are wrong with your numbers. I would think that 86% are nuts....they elected an entire congress in which they have no confidence. They bought into the lies of the Dems that they were going to clean up congress...which we all know by now has not happened. I think anyone who thinks our political system is working would fall into the "nuts" catagory.
Steve

Gayle in MD
06-26-2007, 07:03 AM
Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn what you think... /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

DickLeonard
06-26-2007, 07:22 AM
Gayle I couldn't believe that pooltchr would let the govt intrude in his life by wearing a seatbelt.####

Gayle in MD
06-26-2007, 09:23 AM
Lol, kind of shocking, huh?
/ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif