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TennesseeJoe
05-02-2007, 05:29 PM
What is you technique for putting follow on a straight in shot when the cue ball is only one inch from the object ball?

Vapros
05-02-2007, 07:25 PM
If you want it to follow you have to hit it high, but from an inch away you are in danger of hitting it twice - a foul. You can get a little follow with a careful stroke, about 29/32" long. Remember that the pocket is dead ahead also.

And Bill Shakespeare has requested a review of the quote.

ras314
05-02-2007, 07:31 PM
Better be careful, even if a good hit some people will call a double hit foul if the cb does follow. I suspect that is because it is near impossible to see a double hit without slow speed replay.

What I used to try was a level cue stroke as I could get with an open bridge and let the cue tip bounce up and away from the cb. I am fairly sure I could feel whether a double hit occurred even with the balls much closer than an inch. Not worth the argument if anybody is going to be picky over the call so I have quit practicing the shot.

Rod
05-03-2007, 02:51 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote TennesseeJoe:</font><hr> What is you technique for putting follow on a straight in shot when the cue ball is only one inch from the object ball? <hr /></blockquote>

It depends on how much follow is needed. For a foot or so control speed and follow through. For longer distance run my forearm into my ribs.

Rod

Deeman3
05-03-2007, 07:30 AM
It seems, to me, that a double hit is pretty east to see on those fairly close follow shots as the cue ball immediately seems to follow the object ball when the double hit occurs. The same happens when a nip draw follws a little too far through.

Cydpkt
05-03-2007, 08:20 AM
Don't you love those shots when the opponent shoots and the cue ball beats the object ball down the table, then they try to say it was a good hit?

Deeman3
05-03-2007, 08:31 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cydpkt:</font><hr> Don't you love those shots when the opponent shoots and the cue ball beats the object ball down the table, then they try to say it was a good hit? <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue"> Yep, and even a rough discription of applied physics doesn't seem to sway them. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif </font color>

SpiderMan
05-03-2007, 10:32 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote TennesseeJoe:</font><hr> What is you technique for putting follow on a straight in shot when the cue ball is only one inch from the object ball? <hr /></blockquote>

A "nip follow" is a little more difficult than a "nip draw" from a similar layout, but you can do it if you practice and have good coordination.

Here's one way to "cheat" on this shot, if the setup (location of cueball) allows it. Using a tight grip on the butt of the cue, position your grip hand so that your follow-through is stopped by your fist running into the outside of the rail. This isn't foolproof, and should also be practiced before trying it in competition.

I personally prefer the "normal grip and finesse" technique because it works anywhere on the table.

SpiderMan

bsmutz
05-03-2007, 11:05 AM
I usually shoot these with high center and try to get the cue tip to go up and over the cue ball after the hit.

TennesseeJoe
05-03-2007, 11:08 AM
Thanks to all for the replies.

One response not mentioned is the miscue. If a miscue is not considered a foul --- shoot this shot with a level cue and hit as high as possible on the cue ball. The miscue will result in forward movement of the cue ball. You will hear the miscue but not the double hit (if there is one). With a little practice this is easily done but I don't know how to get out of the ensuing argument.

Vapros
05-03-2007, 11:52 AM
Ending an argument about such a hit is much tougher than making the shot. Much better the argument should be avoided. If you settle on a method for the problem you mention, you might call your man's attention to what you are about to do. That might work; I did say might.

I can't imagine being able to miscue effectively. I would sooner fake a swoon and get my friends to carry me out.

Bob_Jewett
05-03-2007, 11:56 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote TennesseeJoe:</font><hr> ... If a miscue is not considered a foul ... <hr /></blockquote>
In the proposed WPA rules, intentional miscues are treated as unsportsmanlike conduct. Of course, that's not the rule yet, and most pool players don't know what WPA rules are.

Deeman3
05-03-2007, 01:23 PM
I would not intensionally play a mis-cue. There are many situations where that would be effective but I'd rather stack up my best shot and not bend the rules even if an unsuspeacting customer would not know. I would know.

cushioncrawler
05-03-2007, 07:18 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote TennesseeJoe:</font><hr> What is you technique for putting follow on a straight in shot when the cue ball is only one inch from the object ball?<hr /></blockquote>A 1" seperation is eezy, just uze a nip. But, if i want a long follow throo, then this is how i do it.

1... I setup about 2" further from the qball than normal, but uzing my normal cue-bridge length (ie the qtip is 2" further from the qball than normal).
2... The main trick is this -- aim as if to hit the qball dead center (or just a tad higher than center).
3... On the foreward swing, just before contact with the qball, i quickly and sharply raize the qtip up off my bridge hand, so that the qtip karnt possibly double-hit the qball.
4... I uze a Vee bridge -- a loop bridge would make this "raizing" difficult if not impossible.

I can get 6' of follow distance when the qball to OB seperation is as little as 1/2", alltho with such a small separation i uzually havta creep-up on the shot, ie i have a few allmost unintentional "airyz" before i get a contact (makes everyone laugh). Uzing a standard stroke and aiming very high on the qball iz just asking for a double-hit foul.

I once made a cue that weighed about 1/3rd the wt of a ball (actually it woz just a bit of thin dowell). Uzing this lite cue, i could play a fairly longish follow-throo when the qball to OB separation woz az little az 1/16". Here i hit down at about 40dg, and hit the qball high above center. The lite cue stopped dead (might have bounced back actually), the qball hit the OB and then stopped dead (plus a bit of bounce), then the qball took-off in pursuit, not very far, but an amazing sight anyhow. madMac.

ras314
05-03-2007, 08:09 PM
OK, I am lost again as usual. What is the definition of miscue? Seems to me like most "legal" jump and masse shots may be miscues even if not double hits.

Bob_Jewett
05-03-2007, 08:51 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ras314:</font><hr> OK, I am lost again as usual. What is the definition of miscue? Seems to me like most "legal" jump and masse shots may be miscues even if not double hits. <hr /></blockquote>
When the tip slides on the cue ball rather than sticks to it. Have you ever looked at your tip after a miscue? After a jump shot? After a masse shot? I think you will find that the miscue is a separate beast.

It is essential to play that the tip stick on the ball. That's why we use chalk. Chalk was used before the tip was invented, even. Intentional miscues are most reliably played without chalk.

ras314
05-03-2007, 09:19 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bob_Jewett:</font><hr>
When the tip slides on the cue ball rather than sticks to it. Have you ever looked at your tip after a miscue? After a jump shot? After a masse shot? I think you will find that the miscue is a separate beast.

<hr /></blockquote>

More often than I like to admit. However from the appearance of the tip it looks like a matter of degree to me. Any masse attempt of mine with a cue elevation much over 45 deg looks pretty similar to what I would consider the tip slipping.

Actually, what I am most interested in is how a ref would determine an intentional miscue occurred?

Bob_Jewett
05-04-2007, 11:30 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ras314:</font><hr> ... Actually, what I am most interested in is how a ref would determine an intentional miscue occurred? <hr /></blockquote>
By judgment and experience. Should any rule require those qualities in a referee?

Assuming the player is aware of the rule, he probably won't attempt any of the many trick shots that can be accomplished by using a miscue. The most obvious one is the miscue jump shot, but there are lots of others, and some are even taught by instructors.

KellyStick
05-04-2007, 12:08 PM
as others have said this is a bit tricky. Use a short snappy stroke usaully. That is pull your stick to the side of the cb. Practice your stroke length by looking to see just how far you can safely stroke through the cb without hitting the ob. saw back and forth a few times to program that followthough distance into your short term memory. Align to stroke the ball at the preprogrammed distance. hit high and a bit snappy. Lifting your stick away from the balls is good too as an insurance policy against double hitting. This is very touchy so be conservative and don't get greedy and commit a foul. You can stroke this smooth with an up and away stroke as well depending on how you are able to bridge and how flat you can hold your stick. don't forget to chalk. Keep your tip in good shape always.

dr_dave
05-04-2007, 03:25 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ras314:</font><hr>Actually, what I am most interested in is how a ref would determine an intentional miscue occurred?<hr /></blockquote>There's also the other issue of untintentional miscues, and whether or not they should be called as fouls or not (e.g., when they result in multiple hits of the tip, ferrule and/or shaft). For more info, see the "miscue" links under "fouls" here (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/threads.html).

Regards,
Dave

ras314
05-04-2007, 06:30 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bob_Jewett:</font><hr> By judgment and experience. Should any rule require those qualities in a referee?

Assuming the player is aware of the rule, he probably won't attempt any of the many trick shots that can be accomplished by using a miscue. The most obvious one is the miscue jump shot, but there are lots of others, and some are even taught by instructors. <hr /></blockquote>

OK, I can accept that. I doubt any rule addition,change, or clarification will make much difference at the places I play anyway. Most of these places seem to judge disputes based on popularity or who has the most backers. I just need to know what to expect whenever I might be in more reasonable surroundings.

Dr. Dave, thanks for the link, somehow I missed that whole thread.

Roy