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View Full Version : Learned a new shot and wanted to share it



BigRigTom
05-06-2007, 09:38 PM
My mentor showed me a shot and new technique or at least it is new to me. This allowed me to kick into the 1 and make the 9! WOW!
I did not know this would work but it does and is VERY easy once you know about it.
I knew that you can shorten the rebound angle by hitting the ball hard and also by using reverse english but this little stunt requires simple draw and medium to medium fast stroke and it works like a charm.

I would love to hear comments from the brain trust on this one.
Cue Table Version of the shot (http://CueTable.com/P/?@4ATxd1BTDh3CaQa3Daqf3EXbx2FKNL4GVAo4HagI4IXAh1PU aQ1kUaQ3kbIB4kQvb1uCdA@)

Hope that Cue Table Rendition works.

Bob_Jewett
05-06-2007, 09:58 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BigRigTom:</font><hr> ... I knew that you can shorten the rebound angle by hitting the ball hard and also by using reverse english but this little stunt requires simple draw and medium to medium fast stroke and it works like a charm. ... <hr /></blockquote>
In fact, the shot works by curve after the cushion. This is a standard (advanced) position play that's in a couple of Byrne's books and is featured by Mike Massey in his exhibitions. You can also make the cue ball visibly curve towards the cushion with follow, and Mike does. The most effective angle of attack into the cushion to use the effect is 45 degrees.

The shot must be played softly enough to allow the draw to take before the second rail and hard enough to still have draw when the cue ball gets to the first rail.

A good practice for this shot is to have the cue ball by the rail at the head string, and to play the one-rail kick to a ball in the foot pocket on the same side of the table (pretty much as Tom's drawing shows). See how far down the side rail you can hit and still get to the hung ball. Grady always shows this shot at his exhibitions and demos when explaining the use of spin on kicks.

Jal
05-07-2007, 10:51 AM
Thanks for pointing this method out. I believe though that you should get more consistent results across different tables by stunning into the cushion with reverse english, rather than draw.

Jim

BigRigTom
05-07-2007, 11:47 AM
Jim, I thought so too. That was what impressed me about this shot.
When my friend showed me the shot set up he ask me how I would shoot it. I chose the reverse english method and missed it several times.....didn't even get close to making it.
I then tried the draw shot and medium fast stroke and made it 3 times in a row....twice the cue ball came off the end rail into the 1 ball and once I hit the one ball dead on.

I then went back and tried various other reverse english shots and the closest I got was about 1 ball to the right and away from touching the 1 ball.....which in every case would have resulted in ball in hand for my opponent instead of game out for me making the 9 ball.
I was convinced! /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Jal
05-07-2007, 02:24 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BigRigTom:</font><hr> Jim, I thought so too. That was what impressed me about this shot.
When my friend showed me the shot set up he ask me how I would shoot it. I chose the reverse english method and missed it several times.....didn't even get close to making it.
I then tried the draw shot and medium fast stroke and made it 3 times in a row....twice the cue ball came off the end rail into the 1 ball and once I hit the one ball dead on.

I then went back and tried various other reverse english shots and the closest I got was about 1 ball to the right and away from touching the 1 ball.....which in every case would have resulted in ball in hand for my opponent instead of game out for me making the 9 ball.
I was convinced! /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif <hr /></blockquote>I bow to your experience with this shot, Tom. The banking angle into the first cushion is approaching the limit of where you can shorten it with reverse english (I believe about 50 to 60 degrees with respect to the perpendicular), but I thought that there might be enough elbow room such that reverse would work.

Thanks for the heads up. Nothing beats actually doing it at a table! /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Jim

BigRigTom
05-07-2007, 02:59 PM
Yep!
Until I was shown the error of my thinking I would have said that you could not consistently hit that 1 ball.
This game never ceases to amaze me.....and thanks to Bob for pointing out that the shot is common among the more informed.....maybe someday I can claim a place among them....he he /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif

KellyStick
05-07-2007, 04:19 PM
You mentioned a hard shot cuts the angle, reverse cuts the angle and also draw cuts the angle. You can add all three (but don't get too carried away with the hard when you add all three) and really make it cut back on the angle. It's a fun shot and amazes a lot of people. BUt as you said it;s mostly a matter of knowledge.

Speaking of which I have not read a lot of books but one of my favorites is the 99 critical shots in Pool. I'm not sure this one is in there but I find this book to have tons of info that serves as a powerful basis for improving ones game. It just seems to me to have more bang for the buck but also sort of starts out easy and progresses. I recall someone laughed at me for reading a book in order to learn how to shoot pool. I thought that was funny. Does anyone have any book favorites to share?

Rod
05-07-2007, 05:06 PM
The way this shot is set up it makes for a very large target. Variations of this shot are used during game situations. As Bob noted, a follow stroke does the opposite, it lengthens the angle. Both are very useful since its used so much. You just haven't been aware of the fact you've been using it all along. LOL

To be clear the variation of using top or low at o/b contact either increases or decreases the angle of the c/b. Remember Dr Dave's 30 and 90 degree rule? Of course bending the c/b whether its off a rail or ball is easily a century + old. LOL

To add, when you realize the c/b spends less time than you think on the table bed it adds more dimension to this great game. Its more advanced but can be very useful.

At any rate here is a variation of the shot you was shown. Hit below the 4 but before the 1 and before the 9. Pay no attention to the c/b line after the last rail. I just moved it weird. The object is not to hit any of the three balls. I was shown this back in the 60's. Jeez I'm getting old. Early on I had a good grasp of bending the c/b but this shot takes a little more finesse. It a fun shot that shows you how more or less amounts of draw/english/speed effects shots. Just go back to your wei and paste it in. Rod

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AAOj2BDEF3CaQa3DbPW3EXbx2FKNL4GOfC4HagI4IbHV1Pa Ra1kaRa3kbIB3kEOj4kbHx4kNhc4kJpf4kJAf1uCdA@
/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

wolfdancer
05-07-2007, 07:36 PM
Tom, another consistent shot banking from one corner pocket to the other end...with draw you can hit the third diamond on the opposite side, and score. Grady had a bunch of these on his
"pool for intermediate and advanced players"...it's too bad he didn't have good video equipment, and a good editor as well.
Some 20 years later now...and I still can't do 1/4 of the shots he did on that tape...but I did stay at a Holiday Inn once...

Chopstick
05-08-2007, 06:52 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BigRigTom:</font><hr> Yep!
Until I was shown the error of my thinking I would have said that you could not consistently hit that 1 ball.
This game never ceases to amaze me.....and thanks to Bob for pointing out that the shot is common among the more informed.....maybe someday I can claim a place among them....he he /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Have a look at Grady Matthews tape "Only Kicks". The reference shot for that kick is the side pocket to the first diamond above the corner pocket. Since you came up one diamond above the side pocket you come up a half diamond on the long rail. The reverse english only kick is a half diamond higher. It won't work without the draw going that far down.

The system Grady demonstrates on his tape is the most consistent I have seen. I was so impressed with the tape I went to his house and got it first hand. You actually have a good chance of kicking a ball in from anywhere on the short rail. I once had a fellow play me safe dead onto a reference line for a two rail kick in the side. When i kicked it in he just started yelling "You are the luckiest kick shot player in Orlando." That alone was worth the price of the tape.

You will be surprised how accurate you can be with a kick when you have the right approach.

ras314
05-08-2007, 10:59 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr> To add, when you realize the c/b spends less time than you think on the table bed it adds more dimension to this great game. Its more advanced but can be very useful.
Rod

<hr /></blockquote>

Or maybe for the less experienced? /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif

On many high speed shots the cb will be above the cloth a good bit of the time, the break being well known for this. I also think it sometimes accounts for those "impossible" 90 degree cuts.

Ever had to play on a table with low rails? Any cb speed at all will send it in the air unless it has draw when it hits the rail. In fact that's how I learned kicks shorten up with draw some years ago. Banks on those rails are best avoided...

DickLeonard
05-08-2007, 02:55 PM
Big Rig Tom that shot comes up in three cushion a lot. When you are hitting thick off the first ball which should send the cueball long. Hitting it with that draw shot shortens the angle and a billiard is scored.

Sang Lee made a billiard using that draw shot in winning the 1999 World Cup Billiard tournament.####

Rod
05-09-2007, 09:21 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ras314:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr> To add, when you realize the c/b spends less time than you think on the table bed it adds more dimension to this great game. Its more advanced but can be very useful.
Rod

<hr /></blockquote>

Or maybe for the less experienced? /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif

On many high speed shots the cb will be above the cloth a good bit of the time, the break being well known for this. I also think it sometimes accounts for those "impossible" 90 degree cuts.

Ever had to play on a table with low rails? Any cb speed at all will send it in the air unless it has draw when it hits the rail. In fact that's how I learned kicks shorten up with draw some years ago. Banks on those rails are best avoided... <hr /></blockquote>

Roy,

When a ball is in the air in can not react to table bed friction. Nothing earth shattering or rocket science in that statement. Conversely a ball on the bed does react to english by means of friction. That short air time (which can be controlled, to a degree) alters the balls path. I don't have time for long explanations or the wei right now but there are plenty of examples when this effect is used.

Rod

Bob_Jewett
05-09-2007, 10:28 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr> ... When a ball is in the air in can not react to table bed friction. Nothing earth shattering or rocket science in that statement. Conversely a ball on the bed does react to english by means of friction. That short air time (which can be controlled, to a degree) alters the balls path. ... <hr /></blockquote>
The most common case I can think of is when you want to delay the action of draw to allow the cue ball to slide forward around a ball. A little jump keeps the draw from taking for a while.

bradb
05-14-2007, 07:11 PM
Tom, thats a fairly common shot if you play a lot of nine ball. You should look for any combos, kicks or caroms onto the nine before you start any shot or run. As for you teckies out there only talent/experience will put that nine ball down.

-Brad

Jal
05-14-2007, 09:27 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bradb:</font><hr> .... As for you teckies out there only talent/experience will put that nine ball down.<hr /></blockquote>What are you suggesting?

Jim

bradb
05-15-2007, 11:17 AM
Hey Jim, how you doing? I've been gone awhile playing a lot of league 8 ball. I'm totally into the game from a players standpoint and I found it weird to read some of the replies here. I can tell you its basically instinct when you are down on a tough shot with your team watching and the intire match is on the line. Pressure builds up in your chest, your arm is shaking and the cue feels like lead. But you focus.... theres no room for science here, or anything else but this one moment and you minds control over fear.

I guess thats where I'm coming from, no disrepect intended but there are two worlds here, alaysis and playing.

bradb
05-15-2007, 11:37 AM
I should add to my last message that knowledge of rails by using the diamonds is a great way to consistantly get out of hooks or even pot a ball, I learned that technique. Running side works for me, i adjust slightly for the Q-ball coming narrow off the rail, but for total accuracy on the 1-9 kick shown best to stay centered. Its all good stuff to know...and remeber when the crucial shot comes up!