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jjinfla
05-22-2007, 06:56 AM
I received an e-mail from Kay at Kingsbay stating that an owner of a pool room decided not to pay the $250 added that was promised for the tournament.

I was surprised to hear that there was no contract between KBP and the Owner. In this day and age no contract? Especially after KT. We are expected to take someone's word?

The owner did win $70 in the tournament and that was withheld. And the owner did put up $100 of the remainder.

So KBP told the players that all of the added was not there and the payouts will be less. Do you think this is an equitable solution? I personally do not.

KBP announced that there was a $250 added tournament then they should have made sure there was $250 added. If they didn't get it from the owner then it should come out of their operating expenses.

Just another black eye for pool.

Jake

Rich R.
05-22-2007, 07:11 AM
This is a very bad situation and I agree, they should have had a written contract.

As far as getting the added money out of KBP's operating expenses, that would be good, if they have any operating expenses. Some of these tours run on a shoe string and don't have a lot of money available. The money would come out of the pockets of the tour owners. Certainly, if there is expense money available, the money should have come out of that.

I'm no lawyer, but it seems to me that KBP had, at least, a verbal contract and could take the room owner to small claims court, for almost no expense. That may not get them the money, but they could also make the situation very public, to try to encourage the owner to pay up.

jjinfla
05-22-2007, 07:18 AM
Right Rich. And the tournament players went on the written promise from KBP that there was $250 added. Players should not have to worry about where KBP gets the money. If KBP posts that the tournament has $250 added then they should stand by that, take the loss, and continue on. If they can't take the loss then get out of the business.

Players travel 100 or more miles to get to the tournaments and should not have to worry about the money being there.

The players got conned.

Jake

Rich R.
05-22-2007, 07:57 AM
The players certainly got conned, but not by KBP. Let's remember who the bad guy is.
Yes, KBP should have obtained the money up front or had a written contract. That is on them.
The room owner backed out on the deal. He is the bad guy.
I agree that KBP should find a way to pay the money, but they are not the bad guy in this situation.
Hopefully, KBP will learn from this.

jjinfla
05-22-2007, 05:10 PM
Of course they are. They are the ones who promised the players.

We now have two bad guys.

slim
05-23-2007, 06:32 AM
So KBP told the players that all of the added was not there and the payouts will be less. Do you think this is an equitable solution? I personally do not.

All I get out of this situation is someone who's word means little to nothing, without your word who the heck are ya. I just hope for the world that he doesn't have children who were taught the same way.





Jake <hr /></blockquote>

HarryDC
05-23-2007, 09:15 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote jjinfla:</font><hr> I received an e-mail from Kay at Kingsbay stating that an owner of a pool room decided not to pay the $250 added that was promised for the tournament.

I was surprised to hear that there was no contract between KBP and the Owner. In this day and age no contract? Especially after KT. We are expected to take someone's word?

The owner did win $70 in the tournament and that was withheld. And the owner did put up $100 of the remainder.

So KBP told the players that all of the added was not there and the payouts will be less. Do you think this is an equitable solution? I personally do not.

KBP announced that there was a $250 added tournament then they should have made sure there was $250 added. If they didn't get it from the owner then it should come out of their operating expenses.

Just another black eye for pool.

Jake <hr /></blockquote>

JAKE,

Pool Is Synonymous With (DEADBEAT!)

Sorry to read Kay got ripped off.

Poor players greed make them a target for the conmen.

Jake you know what deadbeats there are in pool, people with one hand on your shoulder and one hand trying to get into your wallet. Just read the charlatans posts in this forum.

I wonder if sometime pool shouldn’t have a parole officer 24-7.

HarryDC

Tom_In_Cincy
05-23-2007, 10:44 AM
Way too many details are left out of this really pitiful 3rd party reporting.

1. The flyer? was there ever a flyer that stated the added was based on the number of player?

2. Added money is usually based on the number of players, How many showed? If the $250 is based on 32 players and only 16 showed up, then there is absolutely nothing wrong with what the owner did... the promoter is to blame for not making sure more players showed up.

3. Owners take a lot of grief trying to provide a business to players that are always wanting to get as much for free as possible. What makes a player think he deserves added money? What make a promoter think they can be blameless when the players don't show up?

Answer some or all of these details.....

The Owner still put up $100 of the $250... and he won $70 that was witheld, so that only leaves $80 short. I wonder why this is such a big deal with our friends in Florida?


<blockquote><font class="small">Quote jjinfla:</font><hr> I received an e-mail from Kay at Kingsbay stating that an owner of a pool room decided not to pay the $250 added that was promised for the tournament.

I was surprised to hear that there was no contract between KBP and the Owner. In this day and age no contract? Especially after KT. We are expected to take someone's word?

The owner did win $70 in the tournament and that was withheld. And the owner did put up $100 of the remainder.

So KBP told the players that all of the added was not there and the payouts will be less. Do you think this is an equitable solution? I personally do not.

KBP announced that there was a $250 added tournament then they should have made sure there was $250 added. If they didn't get it from the owner then it should come out of their operating expenses.

Just another black eye for pool.

Jake <hr /></blockquote>

pooltchr
05-23-2007, 07:46 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Tom_In_Cincy:</font><hr> Way too many details are left out of this really pitiful 3rd party reporting.

1. The flyer? was there ever a flyer that stated the added was based on the number of player?

2. Added money is usually based on the number of players, How many showed? If the $250 is based on 32 players and only 16 showed up, then there is absolutely nothing wrong with what the owner did... the promoter is to blame for not making sure more players showed up.

3. Owners take a lot of grief trying to provide a business to players that are always wanting to get as much for free as possible. What makes a player think he deserves added money? What make a promoter think they can be blameless when the players don't show up?

Answer some or all of these details.....

The Owner still put up $100 of the $250... and he won $70 that was witheld, so that only leaves $80 short. I wonder why this is such a big deal with our friends in Florida?


<hr /></blockquote>

I checked their web site, and saw no mention of any restrictions of pay-outs being based on the number of players.

http://www.kbpbilliardtour.com/index1.html

Steve

jjinfla
05-24-2007, 06:48 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Tom_In_Cincy:</font><hr> Way too many details are left out of this really pitiful 3rd party reporting. <hr /></blockquote>

Ha Ha Tom. Now you want to shoot the messenger. Typical.

If you noticed I didn't mention the pool room nor the pool room owner nor any other allegations made against him in the letter.

All I did was post a question. That is, if you go to a tournament where the TD advertizes it as $250 added and you get there and half way through the tournament you find out that the pool room owner is not going to give the TD the promised $250 who would you blame?

I personally don't care what deal a promoter makes with the room owner. If it is advertized as an added event (no stipulations as to how many must attend) then I fully expect the TD to have that added amount in hand prior to starting the tournament. Where the TD gets the added amount is not relavent. Nor what kind of deal he/she makes with the room owner. Some TD's get money and prizes in excess of what they add. That is their business and I think it is perfectly okay.

Now I helped run a bingo for the Salvation Army here and we listed our payouts ahead of time. We depended on the gate for the payouts. But during the summer months the attendance was low at times and guess what? We still made the payouts even if the gate did not cover the payouts. That is what we have operating funds for. That is the proper way to run a business. TD's should keep in mind that they are running a business.

Jake

Rich R.
05-24-2007, 09:47 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote jjinfla:</font><hr> That is the proper way to run a business. TD's should keep in mind that they are running a business.
<hr /></blockquote>
Jake, do you happen to know the financial dealings of KBP?
I know some regional tours are run as a business and make a profit. I know others that usually run at a loss and don't even make expense money.

If KBP is profitable, they should have put in the money. If they do not run their tour as a busines, and run at a loss, I have to put it all back on the room owner, who made a verbal agreement to add the money.

Tom_In_Cincy
05-24-2007, 11:01 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote jjinfla:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Tom_In_Cincy:</font><hr> Way too many details are left out of this really pitiful 3rd party reporting. <hr /></blockquote>

Ha Ha Tom. Now you want to shoot the messenger. Typical.
BANG... you're dead.... the answer to your question is so obvious... the player is to blame for making such a stupid decision to trust the TD or the Pool room.

If you noticed I didn't mention the pool room nor the pool room owner nor any other allegations made against him in the letter.

All I did was post a question. That is, if you go to a tournament where the TD advertizes it as $250 added and you get there and half way through the tournament you find out that the pool room owner is not going to give the TD the promised $250 who would you blame?
If the players don't like the results... they don't have to go to the room again, get their money back, and don't trust the TD.
I personally don't care what deal a promoter makes with the room owner. If it is advertized as an added event (no stipulations as to how many must attend) then I fully expect the TD to have that added amount in hand prior to starting the tournament. Where the TD gets the added amount is not relavent. Nor what kind of deal he/she makes with the room owner. Some TD's get money and prizes in excess of what they add. That is their business and I think it is perfectly okay.
Bad ads for tournaments are nothing new. Added money that is guaranteed is different. It should be there for the players, if not... don't play there or with the TD again.
Now I helped run a bingo for the Salvation Army here and we listed our payouts ahead of time. We depended on the gate for the payouts. But during the summer months the attendance was low at times and guess what? We still made the payouts even if the gate did not cover the payouts. That is what we have operating funds for. That is the proper way to run a business. TD's should keep in mind that they are running a business.
this is a good business practice. keep up the good work and your bingo players will be loyal.


Jake <hr /></blockquote>

Sounds crazy.. .but this isn't a new problem in the pool world and will happen many more times in the future.

What a lot of players don't realize, is that pool rooms are a business and they have to make money to keep open.

pooltchr
05-24-2007, 08:05 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rich R.:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote jjinfla:</font><hr> That is the proper way to run a business. TD's should keep in mind that they are running a business.
<hr /></blockquote>
Jake, do you happen to know the financial dealings of KBP?
I know some regional tours are run as a business and make a profit. I know others that usually run at a loss and don't even make expense money.

If KBP is profitable, they should have put in the money. If they do not run their tour as a busines, and run at a loss, I have to put it all back on the room owner, who made a verbal agreement to add the money. <hr /></blockquote>

To the best of my knowledge, they are a corporation operating for profit. I worked for KBP for about 2 years as a TD. I left for personal reasons that I will not discuss in public. There are some former tour players who may be a bit more outspoken than I.
Steve

Deeman3
05-25-2007, 07:28 AM
All this stuff may be true but there are those of us who drive or otherwise make our way to these tournaments from many hours away and arrive thinking conditions are such and such... Of course we are free to stay home and after a few of these "nut" killers, many do.

Chopstick
05-25-2007, 08:12 AM
<font color="blue">Maybe I should send the boys over to take care of this. </font color>

http://newmedia.funnyjunk.com/pictures/0135.jpg

<font color="blue">Seriously though, If I had been there I would have paid out the difference myself just to keep everybody happy. Maybe I should start my own tour.</font color>