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dr_dave
06-08-2007, 09:58 AM
As far as I know, the main purpose for the ferrule is to protect the end of the shaft. Presumably, with no ferrule, the wood at the end of the shaft would deform and crack more easily. Here are some questions:

- Are there purposes for the ferrule other than durability (e.g., does a ferrule make it easier to replace tips, and are there other reasons?)?

- Are typical ferrules heavier than shaft wood? I ask because Predator uses a very short ferrule. Is this just to reduce end-mass and squirt? Would a longer, lighter ferrule be better? The OB-1 uses a wood ferrule. What are the advantages and disadvantages of that?

I look forward to hearing back from some of the cue stick experts out there.

Thanks,
Dave

wolfdancer
06-08-2007, 10:45 AM
No expert here...but back in the 70's Bob Meucci used a long soft plastic (thermaplastic) ferrule on his cues. The cues were noted then for their "action", great for the avg player. From what I remember reading, his idea was not to stiffen the shaft, but to allow it to vibrate like a tuning fork....
Fred would be the certified expert here on ferrules...and plastics....me, I'm just certified, according to some friends.
It would be interesting to know what the ferrule "adds" to the hit of an OB1 shaft...I'm sure they didn't put all that design effort...layered,opposing bias, etc....just for the visual appeal.

DeadCrab
06-08-2007, 03:56 PM
I noticed in the movie "Stickmen" that they played with short-ferruled cues. I don't know if they are made in New Zealand or not, they look like this:
http://www.abcsports.com.au/illawarra-dragons-8-ball-cue-p-850.html?zenid=6de47d2053587b75e39b4032f3f7747e

and the same site also has brass ones:
http://www.abcsports.com.au/cue-tips-ferrules-cue-tip-ferrules-c-1_41_76.html

SpiderMan
06-08-2007, 05:04 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> I'm sure they didn't put all that design effort...layered,opposing bias, etc....just for the visual appeal. <hr /></blockquote>

I wouldn't be so sure - every song needs a hook /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

SpiderMan

cushioncrawler
06-08-2007, 06:12 PM
As far as i know, the ferrule woznt uzed nor needed in the oldendays (English billiards). Layered leather tips allways had a hard leather (later bakelite??) backing. The backing i think spread the load, ie it prevented the wooden qtip from slowly burring (mushrooming) over. And, it prevented the wooden qtip from splitting apart, thanks to the unyielding backing.

I doubt that u need a ferrule if u uze a hard-backed tip. And, u can glue a hard (metal??) backing to your favorit soft tip, or u can glue similar to the cue, ie to make a sort of "coin ferrule", say 1mm or 2mm thick. I put a coin-ferrule on 2 of my (ash) cues, and it worked (works) just fine -- i only did this koz i woz impatient, koz i couldnt wait for my regular ferrule man to come back from holidays, and koz i uze unbacked tips. It woz only meant to be a temporary thing, but now its permanent, and i aint going back.

Willie Smith woz the first top billiards player to uze a ferrule, it woz brass. But Willie allways sed that he got over one year from one leather tip, so i guess that he didnt uze a ferrule to reduce any possible wood wastage associated with frequent re-tipping. madMac.

Cornerman
06-09-2007, 04:15 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr> As far as I know, the main purpose for the ferrule is to protect the end of the shaft. Presumably, with no ferrule, the wood at the end of the shaft would deform and crack more easily. Here are some questions:

- Are there purposes for the ferrule other than durability (e.g., does a ferrule make it easier to replace tips, and are there other reasons?)?<hr /></blockquote>Looks.

[ QUOTE ]
Are typical ferrules heavier than shaft wood? I ask because Predator uses a very short ferrule. Is this just to reduce end-mass and squirt? <hr /></blockquote> Yes and yes.

[ QUOTE ]
Would a longer, lighter ferrule be better?<hr /></blockquote>Better for what? No reason to think so, unless you mean "for less squirt."

[ QUOTE ]
The OB-1 uses a wood ferrule. What are the advantages and disadvantages of that?<hr /></blockquote>Sound quality. The ferrule is one of the areas that can change the way the cue feels/sounds/hits. Ray Schuler always wanted to not use a ferrule, but tradition wouldn't accept it.

[ QUOTE ]
I look forward to hearing back from some of the cue stick experts out there.
<hr /></blockquote>IMO, ferrules aren't needed. I don't even think you need a fiber pad, unless you're in the habit of wearing your tip down low. The billiard cues typically have a much smaller ferrule than we use in American pool. That should make an obvious statement.

Since the ferrule more than likely preceded the leather tip, the ferrule stayed on when the leather tip was invented just because it was already there.

Fred

dr_dave
06-09-2007, 10:48 AM
Fred,

I was hoping you would respond, because you probably know more about cues than anybody else on this forum.

Thank you for your very informative reply. I have often wondered if ferrules are really necessary.

Regards,
Dave

PS: with my longer-lighter (instead of heavier-than-wood but shorter) question, by "better" I meant "less squirt."

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cornerman:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr> As far as I know, the main purpose for the ferrule is to protect the end of the shaft. Presumably, with no ferrule, the wood at the end of the shaft would deform and crack more easily. Here are some questions:

- Are there purposes for the ferrule other than durability (e.g., does a ferrule make it easier to replace tips, and are there other reasons?)?<hr /></blockquote>Looks.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr>Are typical ferrules heavier than shaft wood? I ask because Predator uses a very short ferrule. Is this just to reduce end-mass and squirt? <hr /></blockquote> Yes and yes.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr>Would a longer, lighter ferrule be better?<hr /></blockquote>Better for what? No reason to think so, unless you mean "for less squirt."

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr>The OB-1 uses a wood ferrule. What are the advantages and disadvantages of that?<hr /></blockquote>Sound quality. The ferrule is one of the areas that can change the way the cue feels/sounds/hits. Ray Schuler always wanted to not use a ferrule, but tradition wouldn't accept it.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr>I look forward to hearing back from some of the cue stick experts out there.
<hr /></blockquote>IMO, ferrules aren't needed. I don't even think you need a fiber pad, unless you're in the habit of wearing your tip down low. The billiard cues typically have a much smaller ferrule than we use in American pool. That should make an obvious statement.

Since the ferrule more than likely preceded the leather tip, the ferrule stayed on when the leather tip was invented just because it was already there.

Fred <hr /></blockquote>

Cornerman
06-09-2007, 05:27 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr> I have often wondered if ferrules are really necessary.
<hr /></blockquote>Mac's response suggests that the billiard players of old came to the same conclusion.

Fred

dr_dave
06-09-2007, 08:08 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cornerman:</font><hr><blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr>The OB-1 uses a wood ferrule. What are the advantages and disadvantages of that?<hr /></blockquote>Sound quality. The ferrule is one of the areas that can change the way the cue feels/sounds/hits.<hr /></blockquote>Here are some more questions:

Do you think somebody used to a traditional ferrule sound and feel will dislike an OB-1, which has a wood ferrule? Maybe some OB-1 owners can chime in here.

Do you think the sound and feel is of any physical importance, or just psychological? If you get a good hit, and the ball goes where you expect, does it really matter how the cue sounds and feels after the ball is already gone. Maybe some people like the sound and feel difference for a miscue vs. a good hit, or for English vs. a center-ball hit, or for various stroke speeds, but wouldn't a cue with no ferrule also have sound and feel differences for various types of shots? I can see how if a player is used to a particular type of sound and feel, he or she might not like a change, but do you think there would be any significant difference in play after the player adjusts to the new sound and feel?

Thanks again,
Dave

dr_dave
06-09-2007, 08:11 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cushioncrawler:</font><hr>I doubt that u need a ferrule if u uze a hard-backed tip. And, u can glue a hard (metal??) backing to your favorit soft tip, or u can glue similar to the cue, ie to make a sort of "coin ferrule", say 1mm or 2mm thick. I put a coin-ferrule on 2 of my (ash) cues, and it worked (works) just fine -- i only did this koz i woz impatient, koz i couldnt wait for my regular ferrule man to come back from holidays, and koz i uze unbacked tips. It woz only meant to be a temporary thing, but now its permanent, and i aint going back.<hr /></blockquote>Mac,

How would you describe the differences with how the cue plays, sounds, and feels without the ferrule as compared to with the ferrule. Was it difficult to adjust to the differences?

Dave

dr_dave
06-09-2007, 08:22 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> I'm sure they didn't put all that design effort...layered,opposing bias, etc....just for the visual appeal. <hr /></blockquote>

I wouldn't be so sure - every song needs a hook /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

SpiderMan <hr /></blockquote>Spiderman,

Seriously, are you suggesting the fancy ferrule on the OB-1 is just a marketing hook, or do you think it offers any significant advantages (other than a possible weight savings over a traditional ferrule, for less squirt)? Do you think the shaft would be significantly different (for any reason) with no ferrule and the shaft made a little longer (so the geometry is the same as with the ferrule)?

Thanks,
Dave

wolfdancer
06-09-2007, 10:59 PM
While I believe that the ferrule is an intregal part of the design..we're all just speculating...maybe Royce will
see fit to answer that....

Cornerman
06-10-2007, 06:02 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr> :

Do you think somebody used to a traditional ferrule sound and feel will dislike an OB-1, which has a wood ferrule? Maybe some OB-1 owners can chime in here.<hr /></blockquote> The overwhelming response to the OB-1 has been positive as far as the feel of the hit is concerned. That is, I have yet to hear anyone complain about the sound due to the ferrule. I certainly like the way the OB-1 sounds.

[ QUOTE ]
Do you think the sound and feel is of any physical importance, or just psychological? <hr /></blockquote>From a physical sensory feedback point of view, it's very important to me.

I don't know if the positive feel (for me) is something I use somehow in gauging speed or spin, or if a negative feel is simply an annoyance or an aid to confusion. It could be both.

But, IMO, the sound and feel make no physical difference (statistically negligble) in the ability for a cue to deliver energy to the ball.

Fred

Sid_Vicious
06-10-2007, 11:18 AM
Predator runs with a hollow shaft toward the end, the OB1 also is hollow except it has a rubbery filler, but the way Royce explained the ferrule to me, is that by being the design and material that it is, makes it an even lighter, forward zone onto the shaft at tip. As we all know, the first 6 inches behind the tip is the most important segment of a shaft, and the OB1 extends that characteristic by incorporating the lightness of the special ferrule. The people who cast aside the OB1 are simply the ones with a fear of something new, so they revert back with little work put into the OB1. Their loss...sid

cushioncrawler
06-10-2007, 06:50 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote cushioncrawler:</font><hr>I doubt that u need a ferrule if u uze a hard-backed tip. And, u can glue a hard (metal??) backing to your favorit soft tip, or u can glue similar to the cue, ie to make a sort of "coin ferrule", say 1mm or 2mm thick. I put a coin-ferrule on 2 of my (ash) cues, and it worked (works) just fine -- i only did this koz i woz impatient, koz i couldnt wait for my regular ferrule man to come back from holidays, and koz i uze unbacked tips. It woz only meant to be a temporary thing, but now its permanent, and i aint going back.<hr /></blockquote>Mac, How would you describe the differences with how the cue plays, sounds, and feels without the ferrule as compared to with the ferrule. Was it difficult to adjust to the differences? Dave<hr /></blockquote>Dr Dave -- Sorry for the delay in replying -- i had to go to my mountain home to get my 3' by 6' table etc, we have to empty the place by july.

I have never thort of ferrules az affecting feel, i dont feel any such difference. Sure, every cue feels different when u first uze it -- even yor own cue feels funny when u havnt uzed it for a while -- i often used to go say 5 months without touching a cue -- at present i dont think i have had my cue in my hands since late November, but i did hit a few shots with someone else's cue one night when i went into ballarat to watch some snooker.

To me, the main differences in feel are due to the leather tip, ie tip hardness etc -- plus cue stiffness etc. But of course the feel of the wt and balance and length etc of the cue affect the feel of the cue "before" the shot, but we are talking about the feel "on" the shot.

I have had a few "run-ins" with ferrules. Firstly, one of my (old) favorit cues had a black fibre (bakelite) ferrule. More lately, when i have been tempted to uze it again, i seemed to foul the qball a lot. I put this down to the fact that most of my other cues had brass ferrules and brown (reddish) fibre ferrules, and the black ferrule woz difficult to see, even tho it had a parallel taper, ie it shood have been more eezyly seen compared to the ferrules on my other cues which mostly had a conical taper. Allso, just by the way, i just remembered that the black ferrule is a bit shorter than when new, koz i had to cut a few mm off the end, koz the plastic started to fail and sort of mushroom over, due to years (i got it in 1985)of play (praktis mostly) -- the tip is 10mm, ie probably bigger than the average (9.5mm??), but i often hit the ball very hard. The maple shaft is still perfikt, its a 1-piece Dufferin. Ah, just remembered, i used to uze old-fashioned leather tips, and i made them really hard by viceing them overnight, and i let them get (wear) really small and thin. In fact, i dont think that i ever replaced a tip -- they allways broke and had to be replaced. I agree with what Clarke McConachy used to say, he said that a tip woz at its best just before it broke. Anyhow, it got to the stage that the small tip wore so much that in the end the radius would inklood a bit of the (black) ferrule, ie the leather tip woz in fact no larger than what u might expect to see sitting on an 8.5mm ferrule. No wonder that the poor old black ferrule "failed" (but most of it is still there).

When i mention a "coin ferrule", i did actually start off by trying a shiney new cut-down (silver??) coin, but it came off allmost straight away, i hadnt really ruffed it up enuff. I uze 5-minute araldite for everything i do, but i heat it over a naked flame so that it develops az much strength as 24hr-araldite, and, i can uze it inside 20 minutes allso. So, i next uzed a ruffed-up bit of softish aluminium sheet. I guess that this iz lighter than silver or nickel, and might be better squirt-wize?? But i didnt expect this to last either, too soft and bendy. But, they (i have 2 cues with coin ferrules) are still ok to date.

One of my billiards mates from Sydney makes cues. He showed me hiz latest "zero-squirt" cue (for billiards and snooker). He uzes a soft and light sort of clearish nylon ferrule, plus i suspect that he haz some sort of secret something going on inside the cue/ferrule that u karnt see. Anyhow, he asked me to play a few shots with it, uzing much sidespin. I played a few shots, but couldnt see that it played (squirted) any differently to what i would ordinaryly expect.

One of my other billiards mates showed me some of hiz home-made screw-in leather tips, that he used to uze in the old dayz (he woz Ozzy champ). Theze were made of threaded brass, and screwed into a brass ferrule. I didnt play any shots with that cue, but i now think that this arrangement, even tho small and neat and invisible, might have been heavyr than normal, and might have affected play.

Earlier, when i mentioned Willie Smith being the first top billiards player in England to uze a ferrule (it woz brass), this woz at about WW1. And, i neglected to say that his cue woz heavier and thicker than any other, so, one would have reckoned that he had less need for a ferrule than anyone. When he vizited Ozz, hiz ferrule'n'wood snapped clean off -- he blamed it on sabotage, by a gambling ring, but nowadayz we know that the wood sometimes slowly fails, and u karnt see it. Bob Marshall lost a worlds billiards championship koz of the same thing -- he found that for some unknown reason he couldnt play "top-of-the-table" in hiz favorit way -- after he had lost in the final he woz playing a friendly game of snooker and hiz ferrule snapped clean off.

I own 2 Alcock cues, made in 1898, in later years the favorit cue of Walter Lindrum. One of mine duznt have any ferrule, ie it iz az-new. The other haz had a brown fibre ferrule (dont know when added), and iz now identical to Walter's last cue, ie the cue he uzed (in an exhibition) the day before he died, except that Walter's cue woz shorter.

My only other ferrule story concerns some trouble that i had when i woz misscueing a lot. In the end i found the culprit, it woz the brass ferrule (partly). I had let my chalk-block develop a deepish crater, and, when i chalked, the edge of the chalk rubbed on the side of the ferrule. A close look at the block showed that there were lots of brassy smudges. Every time i chalked, a bit of the smudge transferred to a bit of the tip -- the tip looked az if i hadnt chalked it completely, even tho i had. Anyhow, brass on the tip = misscue. After that i made sure that i never let the block develop a crater -- i rub the block on concrete to keep the "skirt" short.

With regard to "sound", i dont think that the subject ever comes up around here, ie in billiards and snooker circles -- except of course when there is some sort of funny "twang" due to something loose or not quite right, uzually in the join or in the butt. Alltho, in the old days, when i woz uzing my black ferrule with the very hard tip, players often asked me about the funny "hard" sound of my shots, but i never noticed. madMac.

DickLeonard
06-11-2007, 07:28 AM
Dr Dave I tried wearing earplugs to keep out the chatter around the table. I had to give them up because it blocked out the sound of the cue hitting the cueball. Up till that point I had never given a thought about the sound being a part of playing well.

I had never heard of Beethoven, How many balls can he run.####

caedos
06-11-2007, 07:56 AM
Hi Dave!

I get don't get out much (on the Net) like I used to do. By proxy, we have a ton of OB-1 users in the Dallas market area. When Royce and Don were developing the shaft and then testing it with their team (the Guinea Pigs) and a few other people, I asked them about the ferrule. In doing shaft maintenance and repairs, and talking to Royce, Jerry Powers, Ron Geyer, and a few others over the years here is some feedback for you.
The OB-1 ferrule serves a practical purpose in mass reduction, and it is also part of the marketing. My understanding is that it has always been intended that way, both useful and a "marketing hook" as previously suggested on this thread. I asked them to build me a shaft with a white ferrule and was strongly persuaded otherwise by both Don and Royce. Upon receiving and using the OB-1, neither I nor anyone else I know has any issue with not having a white ferrule. I'm sure there is someone out there, but I haven't met them yet.
Other shafts with 'squirtless technology' do select ferrules based on mass, another trickle-down effect from the Jacksonville experiments. Unfortunately for cue repair personnel, many such ferrules use a plastic that is tougher to set tips with because the glue wont hold as well (specifically thermoset plastics) without roughing, cutting, or otherwise heavily prepping the bonding surface. Cyano-acrylates aren't known for shear strength, and most other glues take longer to set up than repair specialists want to take (like gorilla glue). I may try epoxy on one next time.
I would want a refresher from Royce, but I think they told me that most ferrules are more dense than wood, and a challenge they had in building their ferrule was getting an adhesive that wouldn't ruin the mass value of the ferrule.
Cues don't have to have ferrules in my opinion, but they are highly recommended for a couple of reasons. Players who let the tip wear too low only ruin a ferrule, which can be replaced. When the tip is repaired, the ferrule can be cut accidently and either be sanded out or replaced. In both cases the shaft can be used for years without suffering.

I'm going back into hibernation,


Take care,


Oz

SPetty
06-11-2007, 09:03 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote caedos:</font><hr>I asked them to build me a shaft with a white ferrule and was strongly persuaded otherwise by both Don and Royce. Upon receiving and using the OB-1, neither I nor anyone else I know has any issue with not having a white ferrule. I'm sure there is someone out there, but I haven't met them yet.
<hr /></blockquote>The poster known as PoolFool (who also doesn't get out much) did not care for the look of the OB-1 ferrule and put some white tape over his ferrule. Fooled everybody!

dr_dave
06-11-2007, 09:15 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DickLeonard:</font><hr> Dr Dave I tried wearing earplugs to keep out the chatter around the table. I had to give them up because it blocked out the sound of the cue hitting the cueball. Up till that point I had never given a thought about the sound being a part of playing well.<hr /></blockquote>What specifically do you think the sound helps you with? What kind of information do you think it provides?

Thanks,
Dave

Cornerman
06-11-2007, 09:17 AM
Carl, this is an excellent post, IMO.

Fred

dr_dave
06-11-2007, 09:21 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote caedos:</font><hr>I get don't get out much (on the Net) like I used to do. By proxy, we have a ton of OB-1 users in the Dallas market area. When Royce and Don were developing the shaft and then testing it with their team (the Guinea Pigs) and a few other people, I asked them about the ferrule. In doing shaft maintenance and repairs, and talking to Royce, Jerry Powers, Ron Geyer, and a few others over the years here is some feedback for you.
The OB-1 ferrule serves a practical purpose in mass reduction, and it is also part of the marketing. My understanding is that it has always been intended that way, both useful and a "marketing hook" as previously suggested on this thread. I asked them to build me a shaft with a white ferrule and was strongly persuaded otherwise by both Don and Royce. Upon receiving and using the OB-1, neither I nor anyone else I know has any issue with not having a white ferrule. I'm sure there is someone out there, but I haven't met them yet.
Other shafts with 'squirtless technology' do select ferrules based on mass, another trickle-down effect from the Jacksonville experiments. Unfortunately for cue repair personnel, many such ferrules use a plastic that is tougher to set tips with because the glue wont hold as well (specifically thermoset plastics) without roughing, cutting, or otherwise heavily prepping the bonding surface. Cyano-acrylates aren't known for shear strength, and most other glues take longer to set up than repair specialists want to take (like gorilla glue). I may try epoxy on one next time.
I would want a refresher from Royce, but I think they told me that most ferrules are more dense than wood, and a challenge they had in building their ferrule was getting an adhesive that wouldn't ruin the mass value of the ferrule.
Cues don't have to have ferrules in my opinion, but they are highly recommended for a couple of reasons. Players who let the tip wear too low only ruin a ferrule, which can be replaced. When the tip is repaired, the ferrule can be cut accidently and either be sanded out or replaced. In both cases the shaft can be used for years without suffering.<hr /></blockquote>Carl,

Thanks for the info. Great summary.

Dave

wolfdancer
06-11-2007, 09:28 AM
Carl, great post on the subject. I also used to do cue repairs, and tried out every bonding agent...including Gorilla Glue. There is one "trick" you can use with any of the Cyano-acrylates.....the accelerant for all of them is water.Just..lightly...moisten the surface.
But some of the thermoplastics still remain a problem...in that case you need to use a 10 penny nail....

wolfdancer
06-11-2007, 10:25 AM
Dr. Dave, that's hard to put into words...but sound is one of the sensory feedbacks that instantly tell you ...that you made a good hit/stroke...or in golf a good swing...long before the ball arrives at it's destination. One Golf tip was to listen to the sound of the contact.I played in the twilight one time (well, many times actually)and knew the ball would be on the green by the sound and feel, even though I couldn't see it's flight. The "right" sound would be way more noticeable to the better player...
...try hitting some balls wearing earplugs...and see if it makes a difference....we could call it the "Jacksonville, Colorado Experiment"

cushioncrawler
06-11-2007, 05:21 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> Dr. Dave, that's hard to put into words...but sound is one of the sensory feedbacks that instantly tell you ...that you made a good hit/stroke...or in golf a good swing...long before the ball arrives at it's destination. One Golf tip was to listen to the sound of the contact.I played in the twilight one time (well, many times actually)and knew the ball would be on the green by the sound and feel, even though I couldn't see it's flight. The "right" sound would be way more noticeable to the better player... ...try hitting some balls wearing earplugs...and see if it makes a difference.... we could call it the "Jacksonville, Colorado Experiment"<hr /></blockquote>Woolfy -- Did u know that 99% of golfers have daylite under their shoes at the instant they hit the ball?? But just thinking -- would there be much advantage to wearing a hearing aid for playing pool, and turning it up to the max (just for the shot). I mean, if Dick is correct (that hearing the contact is vital), then surely "more" must be "better". In fact, u kood run some wires from a sensor in the cue, direct to yor ear(s) -- this would eliminate "room noize", and would magnyfy every little creak'n'sqeek. Your opponent will never know what hit him/her. But would this sort of "aid" be legal?? madMac.

DickLeonard
06-13-2007, 07:40 AM
Dr.Dave that was forty years I tried it and rejected it. I had a customer tell me that when I hit the cueball I had a very distinctive sound. He could tell just by the sound if it was me shooting.####

DickLeonard
06-15-2007, 07:46 AM
Cushioncrawler I am begining to see where the MadMac comes from, Do you have any patents on your Ideas? We have a new TV Show on new ideas with a Million dollar first prize. You better get in line. ####

cushioncrawler
06-15-2007, 03:41 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DickLeonard:</font><hr> Cushioncrawler I am begining to see where the MadMac comes from, Do you have any patents on your Ideas? We have a new TV Show on new ideas with a Million dollar first prize. You better get in line. #### <hr /></blockquote>Dick -- Nah, i aint got nothing worth patenting. No wait -- i have put together a new golf handicapping system that might one day take over world wide. And i have worked out the main thing(s) that make a tornado a tornado (i dont think that anyone else haz yet -- researchers are running around in little circles). And i have worked out a (perhaps) new gambling theory about how one can get about 0.66% extra advantage uzing good money management (mainly against the "banker"). And i did put together a hollow cue with a hollow leather tip, with a torch-lite and battery inside (proper article would have had a strong lazer), for checking aim'n'alignment -- this woz years ago, but i see that there are a few of theze on the market nowadayz.

But i find it iz eezyer to criticize and complain, and, strangely enuff, more satisfying. So, perhaps i would make a good devil's advocate for that inventors show. madMac.

DickLeonard
06-18-2007, 07:27 AM
Madmac too late those jobs are filled.####

Snapshot9
06-18-2007, 08:17 AM
Just last week when they had the World Cup of Pool on ESPN, and USA was playing Singapore, the 2 Singapore players were playing with cues that had no ferrule on them. In fact, the cues looked to me, to be Snooker cues.