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gorky
06-19-2007, 04:22 PM
Since English isn't my national language I'm sorry in advance for any errors. Several times when I went to club to play pool I was forced to play with such a cue that it was difficult to make a shot (there were problems with moving forward and backward on hand's skin). I wonder why?

bradb
06-19-2007, 05:43 PM
You're using house cues which are poor quality and have the oil from other peoples hands all over them. Some are also varnished which helps them to last longer but they play awful.

If you want to move up in the game go buy a cue, a decent one can be had for as low as 50 bucks. Its worth it. You can also carry a small piece of course plastic dish scrubber, but only use it on those crappy cues, not your own.

cushioncrawler
06-19-2007, 05:49 PM
Varnish is never az slippery az bare wood -- perhaps cheap cues have varnish on the shaft, or perhaps some new cues have a light coating for temporary protection (dont know) -- but varnish shood be sanded off (off the critical bit of the shaft).

Sometimes bare wood gets dirty -- i "clean" it uzing the finest sandpaper, very lightly and very briefly -- actually a very-uzed bit of very-fine sandpaper will do.

And then i rub (burnish) the clean bare wood uzing the back of the sandpaper -- dont uze newspaper or colored paper or colored cardboard, kos theze will stain the wood.

Finally, rubbing a bit of linseed oil into the shaft might help to prevent (slow down) the clean white bare wood from absorbing dirty stuff over the years and slowly going dark. But i think this oiling shood be avoided if u want a very very slippery feel. Its your choice. madMac.

bradb
06-19-2007, 05:53 PM
Hi Max, I've been away for awhile.

There could be some benefit in a varnished cue for those with slippery hands. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif Brad

cushioncrawler
06-19-2007, 07:44 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bradb:</font><hr> Hi Max, I've been away for awhile. There could be some benefit in a varnished cue for those with slippery hands./ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif Brad<hr /></blockquote>I love a very slippery cue. I am amazed at how slippery some can be (not mine). In fact, i can imagine that some players wouldnt like uzing a very slippery cue, but i daresay that most players have never seen (felt) one, even tho they might think they have.

I suspect that graphite n fibreglass n metal cues are never very slippery, not even half slippery. I have a theory that longitudinal micro-grooves, or macro-grooves even, would fix that. And, i suspect that grooves might even make slippery wooden shafts even more slippery -- or at least that grooves would keep them slippery, ie sweaty oily hands'n'fingers, and/or muggy conditions, wouldnt be such a worry. madMac.

Jal
06-19-2007, 07:53 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote gorky:</font><hr> Since English isn't my national language I'm sorry in advance for any errors. Several times when I went to club to play pool I was forced to play with such a cue that it was difficult to make a shot (there were problems with moving forward and backward on hand's skin). I wonder why? <hr /></blockquote>You could give me lessons in english!

Talcum powder or a glove will help, but use the powder sparingly or you'll make a mess. You might want to check if the club has any objections to it. Here is some that may or may not be better than what you can pull off the shelf at your local pharmacy:

http://www.happcontrols.com/amusement/billiards/26113900.htm

Jim

cushioncrawler
06-20-2007, 02:50 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Jal:</font><hr>...Talcum powder or a glove will help, but use the powder sparingly or you'll make a mess. You might want to check if the club has any objections to it....<hr /></blockquote>Jim -- Perhaps a cuesmith out there will make a grooved shaft. The era of gloves and powder will be no more.

The groovs will allso signal the end of the "hollow shaft". Taking wood out to make the grooves would have the same effekt az taking wood out to make the hollow -- ie low wt'n'squirt (if u like that krap).

Groovz could be made uzing laminations (not eezy), or more likely uzing solid shafts. I reckon that there could be say 6 groovz, or 8, or 16, or more. The groove (inner) could be painted a color or colors.

I reckon that laminated shafts will "rule" -- laminated shafts shood be ideal for puting in a permanent bend. So, here we can have a bent, grooved, colored shaft(s). U will have a choice of bend (angle and pozzy), groove (type'n'number), and color (or colors). madMac.

gorky
06-20-2007, 06:34 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Jal:</font><hr>You could give me lessons in english! <hr /></blockquote> Thanks a lot /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

After reading your posts I am sure they were varnished. I am not used to neither playing with gloves nor using talcum powder so I think I will simply avoid such cues or buy my own. Thanks awfully for responses.

Jal
06-20-2007, 03:33 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cushioncrawler:</font><hr> Jim -- Perhaps a cuesmith out there will make a grooved shaft. The era of gloves and powder will be no more.<hr /></blockquote>Mac, I'm not sure that grooves would help. I'm going by the fact that the amount of friction is generally independent of the amount of surface area. Do you think this is irrelevant?

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cushioncrawler:</font><hr>I reckon that laminated shafts will "rule" -- laminated shafts shood be ideal for puting in a permanent bend. ...<hr /></blockquote>You've brought this up many times now and I'm sorry I haven't responded. I guess it's because I don't consider a bent cue the most attractive solution. But let's see if I understand it.

First, do we agree that the cue will travel through the bridge hand in the direction in which the bent leg (the segment which includes the ferrule/tip) is pointing? (ie, the cue as whole will travel in this direction)

If so, then I think there is an implicit assumption that lining up the shot doesn't involve looking down that portion of the shaft. Otherwise, I think the same problem would be present, bend or no bend. No?

In my case, I believe the above assumption is essentially right. While I do sight down the shaft to establish an initial alignment (getting the tip location more or less set), I suspect that fine tuning is done not with eyesight but with my internal sense of body position (proprioception). I believe that this might be more accurate than eyesight, unless maybe you have your chin to the shaft and shoot in a rifle like manner. Some experiments I've done seem to support this, but I can't say for sure. Seeing the tip end of the shaft, if only peripherally, may assist with this.

So if I'm understanding, a bent cue might help compensate for "bent proprioception", or whatever a player uses to line up other than sighting directly down the shaft. No?

Even if this would work though, aside from aesthetic concerns and the increased difficulty of making and obtaining a cue with the proper amount of angle, I would think that eventually players learn to adjust naturally. With experience, what may have been perceived as misalignment in the beginning (even though it's correct), eventually would be perceived as correct, with enough feedback. You may have heard of those experiments where people were fitted with goggles for a week or so that flipped the world upside down. If I recall, they became so used to them that when they were removed, it required a period of adjustment to having the world right-side up again. Our perceptions tend to get shaped according to what works.

Your thoughts?

Jim

cushioncrawler
06-20-2007, 05:07 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Jal:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote cushioncrawler:</font><hr>Jim -- Perhaps a cuesmith out there will make a grooved shaft. The era of gloves and powder will be no more.<hr /></blockquote>Mac, I'm not sure that grooves would help. I'm going by the fact that the amount of friction is generally independent of the amount of surface area. Do you think this is irrelevant?<hr /></blockquote>Jim -- Yes, i think that area iz relevent here, plus perhaps that the ribs act a bit like skates. But there might be a size of ribbing that works best, ie lots of small ribs mightnt be much good. And, i would ask for a circular profile on the edges/faces, rather than flat.<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Jal:</font><hr><blockquote><font class="small">Quote cushioncrawler:</font><hr>I reckon that laminated shafts will "rule" -- laminated shafts shood be ideal for puting in a permanent bend. ...<hr /></blockquote>You've brought this up many times now and I'm sorry I haven't responded. I guess it's because I don't consider a bent cue the most attractive solution. But let's see if I understand it. First, do we agree that the cue will travel through the bridge hand in the direction in which the bent leg (the segment which includes the ferrule/tip) is pointing? (ie, the cue as whole will travel in this direction). If so, then I think there is an implicit assumption that lining up the shot doesn't involve looking down that portion of the shaft. Otherwise, I think the same problem would be present, bend or no bend. No?

In my case, I believe the above assumption is essentially right. While I do sight down the shaft to establish an initial alignment (getting the tip location more or less set), I suspect that fine tuning is done not with eyesight but with my internal sense of body position (proprioception). I believe that this might be more accurate than eyesight, unless maybe you have your chin to the shaft and shoot in a rifle like manner. Some experiments I've done seem to support this, but I can't say for sure. Seeing the tip end of the shaft, if only peripherally, may assist with this. So if I'm understanding, a bent cue might help compensate for "bent proprioception", or whatever a player uses to line up other than sighting directly down the shaft. No?<hr /></blockquote>Jim -- I have never had the slightest trouble sighting along the bent bit of shaft no matter how long the bend iz, and i have done lots of this with lots of cues over the years i can tell u. The bend can be say at the joint (good), or it can be just inside your natural bridge (best), or the bend can be just 6" from the tip (not so good). But, if the bent/straight bit iz shorter than your bridge length, then obviously it aint going to work az good. A long gradual banana (rather than a sharp kink) iz ok if anyone duznt like the look of a sharp kink.

Regarding shooting by feel, rather than by aim (ie rather than by sighting along the shaft), i can play a whole game like this, no worryz at all. But here i only ever remember doing this with a straight cue. With a straight cue, i allmost havta uze this sort of "feel aim". But, i karnt see why a bent cue wouldnt make "feel aim" even better. A bent cue duznt just "fix" aim, it "fixes" everything, ie contact on the qball, spin on the qball, etc. A bent cue would make "feel aimers" happy. But i havta mention that the bend can be held to the left or to the right, and both will be ok, but one will be better for u.

And i shood mention again that if one uzes a very conical taper, one can get the same effect az a bend by simply uzing a Vee bridge, leaning the Vee over, and pressing the side of the cue into the vertical side of the Vee throo-out the backstroke and forwardstroke. If the side of the Vee iz vertical then the qtip follows a trajektory parallel to the side of the cue rather than the center-line of the cue, so u gain that angle, and i think that for many players that little bit of angle might suffice.<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Jal:</font><hr>Even if this would work though, aside from aesthetic concerns and the increased difficulty of making and obtaining a cue with the proper amount of angle, I would think that eventually players learn to adjust naturally. With experience, what may have been perceived as misalignment in the beginning (even though it's correct), eventually would be perceived as correct, with enough feedback. You may have heard of those experiments where people were fitted with goggles for a week or so that flipped the world upside down. If I recall, they became so used to them that when they were removed, it required a period of adjustment to having the world right-side up again. Our perceptions tend to get shaped according to what works. Your thoughts? Jim<hr /></blockquote>Jim -- For sure. Our perception and our stroke are constantly changing, especially if u are a beginner. Hencely, if one finds the perfikt bend etc then this will not be perfikt for ever. But, if the bend iz too bent, then all u havtado iz hold the bend downish a bit (or a lot), and ok. madMac.

tjlmbklr
06-21-2007, 11:43 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote gorky:</font><hr> Since English isn't my national language I'm sorry in advance for any errors. Several times when I went to club to play pool I was forced to play with such a cue that it was difficult to make a shot (there were problems with moving forward and backward on hand's skin). I wonder why? <hr /></blockquote>

Keep a new/clean dollar bill in your wallet (or any amount will do) and use it like sand paper. Will work well in a pinch.

Bob_Jewett
06-22-2007, 06:57 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote tjlmbklr:</font><hr> ... Keep a new/clean dollar bill in your wallet (or any amount will do) and use it like sand paper. Will work well in a pinch. <hr /></blockquote>
An even better solution is to carry some sandpaper. Gorky seems to be playing in a club where the management is not quite up to speed. Maintaining the sticks is part of the responsibility of the club. An occasional cleaning with #600 or even #400 sandpaper should not be a problem for most house sticks. That is much better than getting powder all over the equipment.

canadan
06-22-2007, 10:11 AM
I keep a real corse one in my wallet. Most of the time I have my own cue with me. But if you go to a bar or someplace that has a pool table that has the over sized ferrel tip combo with no maintanence. I sand the sh** out of it. Most of the time they're worped like a hockey stick anyway. just cut a peice of sand papper twice the size of a credit card and fold it over slip in you wallet and throw out the condom now you have some real protection and someone to buy you drinks all night.

gorky
06-23-2007, 05:43 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bob_Jewett:</font><hr> An even better solution is to carry some sandpaper. Gorky seems to be playing in a club where the management is not quite up to speed. Maintaining the sticks is part of the responsibility of the club. An occasional cleaning with #600 or even #400 sandpaper should not be a problem for most house sticks. That is much better than getting powder all over the equipment. <hr /></blockquote>

I'm not sure if they'd look at it understandably. BTW Won't it leave any bad-looking grooves on the cue?

cushioncrawler
06-23-2007, 09:01 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote gorky:</font><hr> Since English isn't my national language I'm sorry in advance for any errors. Several times when I went to club to play pool I was forced to play with such a cue that it was difficult to make a shot (there were problems with moving forward and backward on hand's skin). I wonder why?<hr /></blockquote>Do u uze a looped bridge?? If so, then perhaps a Vee bridge will be more slippery. If u allready uze a Vee bridge, perhaps some spray-on (plastic) skin will help (available from all good drugstores). madMac.

Wity
06-24-2007, 06:17 PM
Forget carrying sandpaper round with you, talc, and poncy Whacko Jackson look alike gloves. You cant beat sanding the shaft with increasingly fine sandpapers then wire wool oooo grade being the finest. Then seal the wood with raw linseed oil by applying it with tissue paper wipe it after leaving it overnight and lightly use some oooo wool again repeat the sealing process about 4 times then apply pure beeswax. leave it to harden for a couple of hours then buff buff and buff more.
Your left with wood sealed from moisture thus less liable to warp and an ultra smooth finish. Carry a bar towel or a cotton duster in your case and wipe down occasionally between frames. 6 months later or maybe longer depending on how much use your cues had if its without any dings that need sanding out start with wire wool and then renew the sealing and polish the same.

And if you still find it sticky then, wash your hands when youve been to the bog you dirty buggers:)

cushioncrawler
06-24-2007, 06:41 PM
I still think that plain wood can give u a more slippery cue than duz wax or some secret lotion (which needs regular applications etc). In a few months i will make a grooved cue or something and do some tests. In the meantime all i can do is to push my keyboard away and put my ear to the top of the table and rub my dry finger along the top and listen to the noisy rezult, and then to wet my finger and listen to the very noisy rezult (inklooding lots of shudder or chatter or backlash or whatever u want to call it), and then to google "stiction" (friction) and "compliant friction" and learn about how friction is dependant on area, especially for rubbery (skin-like) surfaces.

I found one of thoze 30mm dia ribbed curtain rods, and thort i might proov something with this, but it iz very dirty and ruff etc and will need a lot of work. What i will do iz get a bit of verandah flooring, ie with a flat top and grooved bottom, and i will check the friktion on both sides when sliding on a rubbery (skin-like) surface, and allso when sliding at 90dg to the grooves (for both surfaces). I'll be back. madMac.

Wity
06-24-2007, 06:55 PM
WQell what i described is what i was told by Trevor White one of if not the best snooker cue builder in the world today and when i did just that to my own cue i was gobsmacked with how good it was. Agreed down under and in other hot climates it may be better with other finishes instead of wax but no way is bare wood gonna ever feel so slick.
Trevor,Wooldridge Parris and the other top cue makers here all use and recommend simlar though some prefer other oils to seal their shafts that are faster drying.

DeadCrab
06-25-2007, 06:11 AM
You could try one of those "True Stroke" things (see banner ad above).

Wity
06-25-2007, 09:06 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DeadCrab:</font><hr>
You could try one of those "True Stroke" things (see banner ad above). <hr /></blockquote>

Useful if you name is Kermit I suppose.