PDA

View Full Version : Cue suggestions for intermediate wannabe



DeadCrab
06-20-2007, 10:00 AM
Been playing several months on a weekly basis, and have had a home table for a couple of months with more frequent play now. Currently using a Player's sneaky Pete (19 oz, 13mm pro taper, LePro tip).

Considering upgrading cue in the hopes of developing better sense of "feel" and learning better cueball control and english with. I have a soft shot and play on a 7' table with Championship Titan cloth and 4.5" corner pockets.

Looking for a cue that matches my game style, with good feedback and balance. Would appreciate suggestions as to what type of tip and shaft might fit my game best.

Prefer a wrapless cue with minimal decoration. Considering a McDermott Natural Walnut or McDermott sneaky Pete with possible upgrade later to an OB-1 or I-shaft. Any other ideas?

Deeman3
06-20-2007, 10:27 AM
You're not gonna be crazy about this answer but your present cue is probably just fine. If you find something it won't do, buy another one. In the end, your game is much more than the cue you use.

If that's not good advice, go out and spend a few hundred on another one. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

ceebee
06-20-2007, 11:21 AM
DeeMan is "right on" with his suggestion or advice, whichever you take it.

Get your game going & then get the gear.

If one of the better players, in your local area, can get the cue working, there's probably nothing wrong with it for you to learn with.

Good Luck & know that DeeMann is telling you "The Truth"

BigRigTom
06-20-2007, 11:45 AM
I agree with both the other gentlemen that your cue is fine if you already like it.
The thing I found with the Player cues is similar to the Meucci ( I had a Meucci Sneaky Pete) and that is that the shaft is very flexible and when you are looking for "FEEL" you probably wil be better off with a more ridgid shaft.

Those McDermotts you mentioned will give you that.
I now play with a Viking and the feel is similar to the McDermott that my wife used and it is impossible for other people to tell you which is best for you.
You have to decide which is YOUR preference then choose for yourself.

bsmutz
06-20-2007, 12:04 PM
Yeah, cues are all about individual preference and there really isn't one type or make fits all. When I bought my table, I bought a wrapless Schmelke cue with an 11mm shaft and found it was too small. I then bought a low deflection shaft for it (similar to OB-1, 12mm) and got a little more consistency. I played around with weight next and found that I like a lighter cue. This surprised me as when I first started playing 30 years ago or so, I always used the heaviest house cue I could find and felt I played better with a heavier cue. The last improvement I made was changing to a Sniper tip (absolutely love it). Along the way, I picked up a fancy Dale Perry cue. Within the next week or so, I plan on getting an OB-1 for the Dale Perry and trying a leather wrap on it. My goal is to make it play similar to the Schmelke so that I can use either one without it affecting my game.
My son bought a low end McDermott and though I didn't get to hit with it much before he left it in a hotel room, it seemed like a pretty decent cue. In most people's opinion, the shaft and tip are the most important aspects of a cue from a utilitarian view, with the joint type, butt construction, and balance point figuring into the equation to a lesser extent.

KellyStick
06-21-2007, 11:48 AM
The first thing that jumped into my mind when I read your post was... "keep the cue but get that Le Pro rock replaced immediately!" I don't know why these seem to be the standard tips put on many cue sticks. My experience is they suck. Sorry for my french. Find a local person who not only plays pool but applies tips or even makes cues. Anyway, you might put what they reccomend on. Other than that perhaps someone has a suggestion for a brand of tip? I honestly am not sure what I have on mine. It's what the local guy recomended Blue something or other maybe... I had one of his Milk Dud tips on for a while but it seemed to have a short life. I bought one of those expensive laminated tips once and it was ok but it also seemed to have a short life.

I'm no tip expert but my experience with Le Pro tips is "get that rock off your stick!"

cjt08046
06-22-2007, 07:37 AM
As an intermediate wannabe myself who bought his first "real" cue last year for pretty much the same reasons you listed, I must say there's no substitute for actually hitting a couple balls with as many cues as possible (different weights, tip diameters, joint styles [though I no the joint effect is debatable]. When I did this I was surprised at the different "feel" one cue had over another, and it eventually led me to a reasonably priced one that hits very well. The main hurdle is knowing a hall that sells cues where they'd let you hit a couple balls (as long as you don't chalk up). I was fortunate to have two nearby that actually just gave me a table to use for free while I used almost every cue they had, from $800 ones (out of my range, but fun anyway) down to $145 ones, so I got a good sampling of cues before buying. Whatever you buy, I'd say it's imperative you hit with it first, especially because you're concerned about the feel of the stick, which can be a very idiosyncratic and personal thing. It's a fun process--good luck!

mantis
06-22-2007, 08:15 PM
I would invest the monye you will spend on a cue in lessons. It will make your game much better than a new cue will. I would suggest that any half way decent cue (which your current cue is) will do a similar thing to the cue ball. It is just the feel of the hit that will be different. Don't get too caught up in a new cue.

okinawa77
07-27-2007, 01:48 PM
The main reason for having your own cue..is to get used to the cue in order to become more consistent.

That being said...the cue doesn't matter. Dexterity is the key to using any cue.

There are some hustlers that will grab a house cue and out shoot just about anyone around. But it will take a few strokes for them to adjust to the cue.

DeeMan is right on the money. If you find that you can't perform a particular shot with your Players cue, then maybe get one that will. But like Ceebee stated...first check with a local pro and see if he/she can perform the shot with your cue.

There is a local pool hall that sells Players cues for about $70 brand new. So, a lot of players in my area shoot with them. I have had players ask me to check it out, for one reason or another, and it is a good all around cue. It is similiar to the feel of my McDermott. You should be able to perform any shot with a Players cue...unless you got a dud.

I have used all kinds of cues. Different weights, tips, lengths, etc... Now, I have too many cues, and I need to sell them. All I need is a break cue and a playing cue. I have been playing with a McDermott for about 3 years now, and I can do any shot with it. It is a Jump/Break Cue with a hide away joint, no wrap. I chose this cue because I met a hustler playing with a Jerry Olivier custom cue. It had a hideaway joint. I figured a plain black McDermott cue wouldn't scare anyone off, but I wanted the hide away joint for jump shots. What I like about McDermott is the FREE lifetime warranty and lifetime maintenance. My McDermott originally came with the LePro tip, and I liked it. McDermott now uses Triangle tips. I asked why they changed, and they told me that LePro tips are inconsistent. Whereas, you have a 50/50 chance you'll either get a good tip or a "rock" as KellyStick mentioned.
I have the I-3 shaft for super performance. It's a billiard style shaft with a tiny tip. It's performs fine. I can get a little more english action with it, but I have found that I already get more than enough action from my standard shaft/tip.

One thing that can make the feel of the cue different, is the balance point and where you grip the cue. If you change your hand placement in relation to the balance point you can get a huge difference in feel from your cue. As Willie Mosconi stated in his book, "Winning Pocket Billiards", ideally your hand should be about 6 inches behind the balance point. What I have found is that most production cues have the balance point to far forward, about 2-3 inches. Also, the length of the cue has a big impact on your hand placement in relation to the balance point. If you are 5 foot 6 inches tall, a normal production cue will work just fine. If you are taller, like me 5 foot 10 inches, then a custom 60 inch cue would be better.

I have a custom 60 inch cue replica of the Efren Reyes' playing cue when he was younger, before cue sponsorship. It was made by the same cue maker, Jake Santos. The balance point is perfect. I love everything about the cue except for the radial joint and wrap. I am like you, I like a wrapless cue. It just feels better.

I have been thinking about using my custom cue for a while now, but finding a custom cue case that my cue will fit in, is proving to be a challenge.

I have found that using a Predator shaft on my custom cue changes the balance point due to weight/length of the shaft. The Predator shaft is a good shaft for a center ball shooter that uses a snap stroke. I am a soft, follow through shooter, and english is something I am very talented at. So, the Predator shaft was not for me. I did find that it was very difficult for me to get draw/follow using the Predator shaft, but once I adjusted to the shaft...I went to the original shaft and my stroke was incredible. So, the Predator shaft is a good training tool for me to get my stroke super good.

Lighter cues are what serious pool players use. 18 ounces is a starting point. Some players go lower. The reason I say it is for serious players is, if you are playing 8 or 10 hours at a time, like some pros do...then an 18 ounce compared to a 21 ounce can make a big difference...the next morning. Also, most competition tables have fast cloth, and it is easier to control the cue ball with a lighter cue. If you are on a slow table, a heavier cue will help you get more cue ball action. Also, some cue manufacturers will make the cue at a specified weight without the availability of a weighted screw for adjustment. Going with an 18 ounce cue will allow you the ability to experiment with different weights by adding weighted screws in the butt/end cap of the cue, but this will effect the balance point of the cue.

You can learn a lot about cues, but in the end...find what works for you.

wolfdancer
07-27-2007, 05:51 PM
I'd change tips first, and see if your game picks up. The Predators used to come with a LePro...We all changed tips immediately...some put Triangles or Talismans on...I went to an Everest....the hit on the stick changed dramatically.
Eventually you'll want a better cue....but shop around first.
I have a Pechauer that I bought a couple of years ago, on an impulse...and haven't hit it more then a half dozen times....just don't like it....and that's $350 down the drain. I might give it to some homeless person, along with a ticket to Alabama...there's easy pickings down there. He can use the cue to get himself off the street...

Snapshot9
07-28-2007, 09:49 AM
Some good suggestions, here are mine:

1) Replace the LePro with a good layered tip, medium hard.
(I play with Hercules layered medium H2).
2) Still don't like it, then I would look at Schons.
Platinum Billiards has a nice selection of Schons.
3) If Schons are too high for you, try looking at these
Lucasi wrapless cues:
Lucasi Sneakies (http://www.platinumbilliards.com/index.php?cPath=21_190_195) /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

1Time
07-29-2007, 05:42 AM
DeadCrab,

Asking for advise or help in a public forum at times can seem like trying to drink from a fire hydrant. There's a lot of extra water in this thread that need not or should not be consumed.

If you want a better sense of "feel" with which to learn better cueball control and english on a quality 7' table than your 19 oz LePro tipped cue now provides, I suggest a lighter cue and a different tip "may" work best for you. Shooting on a quality bar box with a lighter house cue should give you a fair indication if this is so. My guess would be a 17 oz Dufferin cue with an Elkmaster tip would get you there better than your current cue. Of course you're best off trying different cues/tips to see what works best for you. The following quotes from previous posts in this thread support my opinions.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bsmutz:</font><hr> I played around with weight next and found that I like a lighter cue. <hr /></blockquote>
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bsmutz:</font><hr>
The last improvement I made was changing to a Sniper tip (absolutely love it). <hr /></blockquote>
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cjt08046:</font><hr> I must say there's no substitute for actually hitting a couple balls with as many cues as possible... <hr /></blockquote>
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cjt08046:</font><hr>When I did this I was surprised at the different "feel" one cue had over another...<hr /></blockquote>
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cjt08046:</font><hr> Whatever you buy, I'd say it's imperative you hit with it first, especially because you're concerned about the feel of the stick, which can be a very idiosyncratic and personal thing. <hr /></blockquote>
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote okinawa77:</font><hr>
You can learn a lot about cues, but in the end...find what works for you. <hr /></blockquote>

----------------------------------

And now a few quotes from this thread that miss the target and why...

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman3:</font><hr> You're not gonna be crazy about this answer but your present cue is probably just fine.<hr /></blockquote>
It's far more probable a different cue and/or cue tip will better result in what the OP is wanting, and so it is not fine to just keep the current cue and/or tip.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ceebee:</font><hr>
Get your game going &amp; then get the gear.

If one of the better players, in your local area, can get the cue working, there's probably nothing wrong with it for you to learn with. <hr /></blockquote>

It's apparent from the OP's original post that his game is already in gear and he's ready to take it to the next level. It's much more likely he'd achieve what he's after with a better selection of gear. Beginners and better players alike are capable of improving their game through a better selection of gear. And, it's completely irrelevant if a better player can get a particular cue to work and a lesser player can't perform as well. I could easily shoot far better than most with a typical house cue than they could with the dream cues of their choice. However, that certainly does not mean those lesser players therefore should shoot the same or an improved game if they switched to using house cues.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BigRigTom:</font><hr>
The thing I found with the Player cues is similar to the Meucci ( I had a Meucci Sneaky Pete) and that is that the shaft is very flexible and when you are looking for "FEEL" you probably wil be better off with a more ridgid shaft. <hr /></blockquote>

My previous Meucci cue had a fairly flexible shaft, yet it gave me great "feel" or touch with softer shots. I tried a stiff Meucci black dot shaft with this cue for a while and it game me much less "feel". I now use a Viking cue with a LePro tip which has a stiffness between my original Meucci and the black dot shaft. For softer shots it's feel is not as good as my original Meucci. I attribute this primarily to the softer tip and lighter shaft of my original Meucci. I don't recommend a stiff shaft if wanting a better "feel" when using a soft touch.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote KellyStick:</font><hr> The first thing that jumped into my mind when I read your post was... "keep the cue but get that Le Pro rock replaced immediately!" <hr /></blockquote>
It's all too likely the OP would achieve better results from a better selection of cue than just changing the tip.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote mantis:</font><hr> I would invest the monye you will spend on a cue in lessons. It will make your game much better than a new cue will. I would suggest that any half way decent cue (which your current cue is) will do a similar thing to the cue ball. It is just the feel of the hit that will be different. Don't get too caught up in a new cue. <hr /></blockquote>

Although it is likely the OP would benefit more from instruction than from a new cue, anyone can benefit from a better selection of cue.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote okinawa77:</font><hr>
There are some hustlers that will grab a house cue and out shoot just about anyone around. But it will take a few strokes for them to adjust to the cue. <hr /></blockquote>
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote okinawa77:</font><hr>
But like Ceebee stated...first check with a local pro and see if he/she can perform the shot with your cue. <hr /></blockquote>

(same answer as before) It's completely irrelevant if a better player can get a particular cue to work and a lesser player can't perform as well. I could easily shoot far better than most with a typical house cue than they could with the dream cues of their choice. However, that certainly does not mean those lesser players therefore should shoot the same or an improved game if they switched to using house cues.

DeadCrab
07-29-2007, 11:00 AM
The decision has been made:

McDermott with a Moori-III medium tip.

Thanks to all that responded.

KellyStick
07-30-2007, 11:35 AM
Wow! Most impressive! All that extra water gushing from the hydrantS appears to have translated into a decisive action. WooHOO! Or have we created a monster? Good luck and let us know how it goes. I still think a good tip is more important than the stick it's on. I will however ponder the possibility that I may be wrong...

1Time
07-30-2007, 03:19 PM
Post deleted by 1Time

1Time
07-30-2007, 03:30 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote KellyStick:</font><hr> The first thing that jumped into my mind when I read your post was... "keep the cue but get that Le Pro rock replaced immediately!" <hr /></blockquote>
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote KellyStick:</font><hr> Wow! Most impressive! All that extra water gushing from the hydrantS appears to have translated into a decisive action. WooHOO! Or have we created a monster? Good luck and let us know how it goes. I still think a good tip is more important than the stick it's on. I will however ponder the possibility that I may be wrong... <hr /></blockquote>
KellyStick,

I agree; the tip is the most important part of a cue. However, it's goes too far to maintain that the best tip for a particular individual (whatever tip that may be) can be placed on his/her original cue (whatever cue that is) and then somehow by default that individual should shoot better with it than with some other cue that has the same new tip. Conversely, the OP may find that he shoots better with his original cue than his new one, or, that he shoots better with his original cue after re-tipping it. There's simply no way to know ahead of time what anyone will find works best.

However, as I stated earlier in this thread, it's all too likely the OP would achieve better results from a better selection of cue than just changing the tip. Does that mean his selection of a McDermott with a Moori III medium tip will get the job done for him better than his original cue or his original cue with a new tip? No, again there's simply no way to know ahead of time what anyone will find works best. However, if that McDermott is a lighter cue, 17 to 18 oz, then my guess is the OP will find his new cue to be an improvement over the posibilities his original cue could offer. My primary reason for guessing this is it has been my experience and observation of other "better players" that a lighter cue with a medium to soft tip works best with a soft touch on a 7' table. Everyone's results will vary. Just be careful to drink the clean water.