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SpiderMan
06-28-2007, 09:31 AM
I find it interesting that a combination of liberals and conservatives worked to defeat the bill. However, their reasons were quite different from one another (see highlights):

Immigration bill goes down in defeat
By Klaus Marre
June 28, 2007

The comprehensive immigration reform bill that has dodged attacks from the left and right for weeks, survived “poison pill” amendments, and was once pulled from the Senate schedule failed its most important test Thursday. Passage of the legislation now appears unlikely.

The bipartisan coalition that had shepherded the measure through so many obstacles failed to get the 60 votes necessary to end debate.

Until Thursday morning, it was unclear whether the bill would survive the cloture vote. But in the end, opponents of the measure from both sides of the political spectrum gained enough support to derail the legislation. <font color="blue">Liberals felt it did not go far enough in protecting illegal immigrants</font color>, while<font color="red"> conservatives rejected the bill because they felt it would grant amnesty to the estimated 12 million illegal immigrants in the country</font color>.

Republican foes of the measure argued that the American public was broadly united in opposition to the bill and had made its views known by flooding Congress with phone calls and e-mails.



Full Story Here: Immigration Bill Defeat (http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/immigration-bill-goes-down-in-defeat-2007-06-28.html)

SpiderMan

pooltchr
06-28-2007, 02:20 PM
It's good to see that one segment of the political process is still intact. If the people speak loudly enough, even Washington listens!
Score one for the good guys!
Steve

Gayle in MD
06-28-2007, 03:13 PM
From the same article....

[ QUOTE ]
But Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.), one of the key members of the coalition that crafted the bill, warned his Republican colleagues ahead of the vote.
<font color="red">Gee, I thought this bill was all about Ted Kennedy? /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif </font color>

“Remember this day if you vote ‘no,’” Graham said, adding that this bill would not come back in its current form and it is “as good as it gets.”

<font color="red">My oh my, according to the Eggravater, this must make Republican Senator Graham, a liar. </font color>

President Bush has taken a hands-on approach to the legislation, Which he views as an important part of his domestic legacy. <font color="red">I think I'm having a replay here....more Republican Amnesty legacies, as if the one left by Reagan wasn't enough already! </font color> Leading up to the vote, called senators to urge them to support the bill.

<hr /></blockquote>

They're all responsible for this mess, Republicans, and Democrats, equally, IMO. They are playing up to the immigrant vote, and the corporations who benefit from cheap labor. Pure and simple.

Gayle in Md.

Deeman3
06-28-2007, 03:57 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> They are playing up to the immigrant vote, and the corporations who benefit from cheap labor. Pure and simple.

Gayle in Md. <hr /></blockquote> <font color="blue">

Well, here's to hoping there is no illegal immigrant vote to play up to in the future. </font color>

Sid_Vicious
06-28-2007, 08:48 PM
The mainest thing today is border security, and that's the sworn duty of all the public servants, ABSOLUTELY the chimp, whom on his watch, saw two towers and 3000 people perish. What killed this bill, and good in my opinion to be killed, was the a-hole called Bush who did NOT perform his first duty...protect our border in the event of a war. This is his war, so fight it you lame (fill in the blank!) Such a useless president for our security. sid

eg8r
06-29-2007, 06:09 AM
The author sure hit the nail on the head.

eg8r

eg8r
06-29-2007, 06:16 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote quote from news article that gayle chose:</font><hr> “Remember this day if you vote ‘no,’” Graham said, adding that this bill would not come back in its current form and it is “as good as it gets.”
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote gayle without a clue:</font><hr> My oh my, according to the Eggravater, this must make Republican Senator Graham, a liar. <hr /></blockquote> <hr /></blockquote> I have to say this and I am not interested in your feelings at this point...ARE YOU STUPID? When I brought up teddy's lies it was because 20 or so years ago he said that if the bill was pushed through then they would never have to do this again. It was pushed through. Guess what, he is the pioneer trying to do it again?

I am sorry your brain cannot grasp the glaring differences but dang do you have to be so obvious about it?

eg8r

Gayle in MD
06-29-2007, 09:35 AM
This bill has been pushed by Bush, Kennedy, and McCain, and Graham....by my count, that's three Republicans, and one Democrat.

Can you count?

I would appreciate it if you would refrain from posting to me....

Gayle in Md.

SpiderMan
06-29-2007, 09:45 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> From the same article....

&lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
But Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.), one of the key members of the coalition that crafted the bill, warned his Republican colleagues ahead of the vote.
<font color="red">Gee, I thought this bill was all about Ted Kennedy? /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif </font color>

“Remember this day if you vote ‘no,’” Graham said, adding that this bill would not come back in its current form and it is “as good as it gets.”

<font color="red">My oh my, according to the Eggravater, this must make Republican Senator Graham, a liar. </font color>

President Bush has taken a hands-on approach to the legislation, Which he views as an important part of his domestic legacy. <font color="red">I think I'm having a replay here....more Republican Amnesty legacies, as if the one left by Reagan wasn't enough already! </font color> Leading up to the vote, called senators to urge them to support the bill.

<hr /></blockquote>

They're all responsible for this mess, Republicans, and Democrats, equally, IMO. They are playing up to the immigrant vote, and the corporations who benefit from cheap labor. Pure and simple.

Gayle in Md. <hr /></blockquote>

It isn't about republicans and democrats. As you'll see by re-reading my original post, it's conservatives and liberals.

If you have to pigeonhole here, the correct approach would be to note that Liberals tend to favor amnesty, and Conservatives tend to favor enforcement - regardless of claimed party affiliation.

For example, the immigration issue has me convinced that George Bush must really be a Democrat, as he is acting the part of a sellout liberal.

SpiderMan

Gayle in MD
06-29-2007, 10:41 AM
LOL, well, that's a pretty effective way of letting any and every Republican/conservative off the hook for any and every act of bad policy, just label him a Democrat/liberal.

When it comes to bad disasterous policy I usually try to research to see what led to the disaster. By your standards, Reagan must also have been a liberal/Democrat, since the Reagan amnesty policy, which gave amnesty to an estimated one to three million illegals, has been acknowledged by both parties, as the policy which led to the illegal alien influx into this country.

[ QUOTE ]

If you have to pigeonhole here, the correct approach would be to note that Liberals tend to favor amnesty, and Conservatives tend to favor enforcement - regardless of claimed party affiliation.
<hr /></blockquote>



During the time period after Reagans Amnesty Bill, as far as I can tell, both the Bush's, and Clinton failed to secure our borders, or implement the conditions included in the original bill. By my accounting methods, that's two Republican Presidents and one Democrat, and more years of Republican control over the Congress, than Democratic control, hence, I'd hardly suggest that Republicans favor enforcement, since history suggest otherwise.

Beyond this, in the interim, 9/11 occured, on the Republican Watch, BTW, and after repeated and unprecedented warnings. Since that time, the 9/11 commission included in their suggestions for protecting us from another attack, that our borders be secured. After six years of Republican control of the White House, the Senate and the Congress, no progress was made to secure our borders, and in fact, the Republicans have blocked the implementation of the legislation to do so repeatedly, since the Democratic majority took power, and also blocked the Ethics Bill.

Perhaps a fairer way to frame this might be that Republicans were responsible for the original amnesty policy, and also took part in failing to enforce the laws, which led to the present illegal alien disaster, and which atleast one Democratic President, failed to address. At the present time, we have a bi-partisan mix, saying that trying to deport 12 to atleast 20 million illegals, is not a reqasonable option, a mix with a higher percentage of Democrats, than Republicans, led by a Republican President, and supported by three of his most ardent supporters, and one Democrat.

I like my way better, they are all guilty of failing to enforce our immigration laws, or protect us from an illegal occupation, through open borders, and the resulting illegal alien problem, which was exascerbated by the Reagan Amnesty Policy.

Gayle in Md.

SpiderMan
06-29-2007, 12:28 PM
Gayle,

I don't understand how you must define "research". If I search through all of your posts, how often will I see you complaining about corruption, lies, graft, bribery, and miscellaneous evil among Democrats?

By all indications, you are 100% partisan in your observations. If you are only "against" bad policy/performance of Republicans, then bad policy/performance is not really what you are against.

Yes, I am conservative in many views. But I readily acknowledge, and you'll see that I've noted many times, that where pork-packing self-serving politicians are concerned, there's not a dime's worth of difference in the parties.

You must realize that you are taking a "conservative" stance on the immigration issue. For months you've tried to reconcile this by insisting that, since there are a minority of Republican legislators on the "amnesty" side, that they must be responsible.

On this issue, you (like myself) are actually aligned with the conservative faction that is majority republican and only minority democratic, but you can't bring yourself to admit it /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

SpiderMan

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> LOL, well, that's a pretty effective way of letting any and every Republican/conservative off the hook for any and every act of bad policy, just label him a Democrat/liberal.

When it comes to bad disasterous policy I usually try to research to see what led to the disaster. By your standards, Reagan must also have been a liberal/Democrat, since the Reagan amnesty policy, which gave amnesty to an estimated one to three million illegals, has been acknowledged by both parties, as the policy which led to the illegal alien influx into this country.

&lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;

If you have to pigeonhole here, the correct approach would be to note that Liberals tend to favor amnesty, and Conservatives tend to favor enforcement - regardless of claimed party affiliation.
<hr /></blockquote>



During the time period after Reagans Amnesty Bill, as far as I can tell, both the Bush's, and Clinton failed to secure our borders, or implement the conditions included in the original bill. By my accounting methods, that's two Republican Presidents and one Democrat, and more years of Republican control over the Congress, than Democratic control, hence, I'd hardly suggest that Republicans favor enforcement, since history suggest otherwise.

Beyond this, in the interim, 9/11 occured, on the Republican Watch, BTW, and after repeated and unprecedented warnings. Since that time, the 9/11 commission included in their suggestions for protecting us from another attack, that our borders be secured. After six years of Republican control of the White House, the Senate and the Congress, no progress was made to secure our borders, and in fact, the Republicans have blocked the implementation of the legislation to do so repeatedly, since the Democratic majority took power, and also blocked the Ethics Bill.

Perhaps a fairer way to frame this might be that Republicans were responsible for the original amnesty policy, and also took part in failing to enforce the laws, which led to the present illegal alien disaster, and which atleast one Democratic President, failed to address. At the present time, we have a bi-partisan mix, saying that trying to deport 12 to atleast 20 million illegals, is not a reqasonable option, a mix with a higher percentage of Democrats, than Republicans, led by a Republican President, and supported by three of his most ardent supporters, and one Democrat.

I like my way better, they are all guilty of failing to enforce our immigration laws, or protect us from an illegal occupation, through open borders, and the resulting illegal alien problem, which was exascerbated by the Reagan Amnesty Policy.

Gayle in Md.



<hr /></blockquote>

Gayle in MD
06-29-2007, 01:17 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Gayle,

I don't understand how you must define "research". If I search through all of your posts, how often will I see you complaining about corruption, lies, graft, bribery, and miscellaneous evil among Democrats? <font color="red">Hey, I can't help it if during the last six years, more Republicans have broken the law and gone to jail, than Democrats. I never said that Democrats don't do the same, I say it is a matter of degree. And, one must keep in mind, that our Representatives come and go, and not the same bunch running things. I say this last bunch of Republicans, over these last eight to ten years, are the worst in history, of either party, ever. That does not mean that I think Democrats don't have their bad apples, also. </font color>

By all indications, you are 100% partisan in your observations. [ QUOTE ]
<font color="red">As long as there is a Republican President, who lies non stop, and a REpublican party behind him, who supports his lies, and his lies are killing American troops, destroying the Constitution, breaking the laws of this nation, infringing on American rights, and refusing to answer to Congressional subpoenas, investigations, and oversight, IOW&lt; acting like he is King, I will be against him, and the crooks who have given him the blank check to perform such destruction against America. Call that partisan, if that makes you happy. I call it patriotic. I will remain as much in support of the opposing party, as possible, until this bunch of Republilcan Crooks are run out of town. </font color> <hr /></blockquote> If you are only "against" bad policy/performance of Republicans, then bad policy/performance is not really what you are against. <font color="red">I am against whichever party I believe is harming my copuntry, and abusing our armed services, our troops, their families, and the Constitution of the United States Of America. </font color>

Yes, I am conservative in many views. But I readily acknowledge, and you'll see that I've noted many times, that where pork-packing self-serving politicians are concerned, there's not a dime's worth of difference in the parties.

<font color="red">I believe there are some good ones on both sides, and some bad ones on both sides, however, as I have stated many times, my most urgent and important issue is our troops. Had you seen the hearings of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, (Or any of the other ones, for that matter) and the testimony from Major General Batiste, and Prof. Anthony Cordesman, last wednesday, maybe you would understand more about what Republicans, and Bush, have done to our country, and our troops. Frankly, I really don't think that anyone who posts here on the right, has ever watched any of the hearings. </font color>

You must realize that you are taking a "conservative" stance on the immigration issue. For months you've tried to reconcile this by insisting that, since there are a minority of Republican legislators on the "amnesty" side, that they must be responsible.

<font color="red">That is completely untrue, and unfair. If you took the time to read back over my posts, you would see that I blamed both parties for the present legislation, and failures, regarding this issue. I just don't let it pass by when a right wing radical nut, tries to blame the whole thing on one Democratic Senator. The original post of yours, in this thread, for example, leaves out Republican involvement, at the end of the article, and highlights the Democratic involvment in the beginning. You guys are always ready to scream partisan at me, as though you are not partisan, yourselves. I admit, I am partisan, not out of any loyalty to Democrats, though, out of loyalty to our troops, and our Constitution. If you can honestl;y say that you don't think that this administration is the most corrupt in recent history, fine, but don't say that, and then accuse others of partisanship, and contend that you are not.

</font color>

On this issue, you (like myself) are actually aligned with the conservative faction that is majority republican and only minority democratic, but you can't bring yourself to admit it

SpiderMan

<hr /></blockquote>

<font color="red">There is more than one post where I refer to being against the Democratic position on illegal aliens, and blame both parties. You obviously haven't read them. That is something completely different from refusing to acknowledge that Ronald Reagan laid the groundwork for this disaster with HIS "Reagan's Amnesty Bill"....if you can't admit that, then just whom is unable to admit the facts???? /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Gayle in Md.</font color>

eg8r
06-29-2007, 03:25 PM
[ QUOTE ]
This bill has been pushed by Bush, Kennedy, and McCain, and Graham....by my count, that's three Republicans, and one Democrat.

Can you count?
<hr /></blockquote> This is not about a count and frankly if you were really interested in counting you would quit the stupid act and count how many dems vs reps are voting in favor of the bill.

As far as no longer posting to you, NO, I will post as I darn well please. If you don't like it then quit coming back. I refuse to accept your request for my restriction of free speech.

I am sick of your lies and twisting of the truth to suit your needs. As you hypocritically continue to open your mouth I will post a reply.

eg8r

eg8r
06-29-2007, 03:38 PM
Nevermind, I don't trust you to give an honest answer on the cloture vote so here it is for everyone... [ QUOTE ]
Grouped By Vote Position YEAs ---46
Akaka (D-HI)
Bennett (R-UT)
Biden (D-DE)
Boxer (D-CA)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Cardin (D-MD)
Carper (D-DE)
Casey (D-PA)
Clinton (D-NY)
Conrad (D-ND)
Craig (R-ID)
Dodd (D-CT)
Durbin (D-IL)
Feingold (D-WI)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Graham (R-SC)
Gregg (R-NH)
Hagel (R-NE)
Inouye (D-HI)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Kerry (D-MA)
Klobuchar (D-MN)
Kohl (D-WI)
Kyl (R-AZ)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Lieberman (ID-CT)
Lincoln (D-AR)
Lott (R-MS)
Lugar (R-IN)
Martinez (R-FL)
McCain (R-AZ)
Menendez (D-NJ)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Murray (D-WA)
Nelson (D-FL)
Obama (D-IL)
Reed (D-RI)
Reid (D-NV)
Salazar (D-CO)
Schumer (D-NY)
Snowe (R-ME)
Specter (R-PA)
Whitehouse (D-RI)
Wyden (D-OR)
<hr /></blockquote> I will bold the Dems so we get a good feel of the balance of just who stands behind this bill the most. What else do you have to say? I am interested in seeing how you twist the facts this time.

Besides the fact that you are unwilling to admit the actual level of Democratic participation, thank goodness it was still a failure.

eg8r

Gayle in MD
06-29-2007, 04:06 PM
Did you really think I didn't know who voted for the bill? I don't know what you think you're trying to prove. I stated over a month ago, that on the immigration issue, I was not in favor of the Democratic position. However, your twisted attempt to lay the entire matter at the feet of Kennedy, when two Republican President's pushed for amnesty, and Reagan's Amnesty Bill was the original Bill which led to the influx of illegal aliens in this country, is a joke, as are you.

Gayle in Md.

eg8r
06-29-2007, 04:08 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Did you really think I didn't know who voted for the bill? <hr /></blockquote> If you really want to know what I think then let me spell it out for you, I DON'T THINK YOU THINK! Your words are just copy/paste regurgitations from the people you feel you side with.

eg8r

Gayle in MD
06-29-2007, 04:23 PM
LMAO...yeah, right,... that's why you live to post insults to me. The vast majority of your posts, are to, or about, me. You're addicted to me,, why not face it. You find me irresistable, compelling, and simply unavoidably enticing. Poor Eggravater, did the widdle man wose widdle man's election, awe, things could be worser, could wost your ewecktion.

Here's another one for you, widdle boy, in the latest CNN poll, while respondents are not happy with Congress, the overwhelming majority said they were more satisfied with the Democrats, than the Republicans, and wanted MORE DEMOCRATS IN OFFICE NEXT TIME....

So go eat your heart out, along with your twinkies, eggravator...

You're what is commonly known in pool circles, as a poor loser, and a bad sport. You were rude and annoying long before political posts ever became active on this forum. Widdle one, who thinks evewry one who doesn't agwree with him is a liar.

/ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Gayle in MD
06-30-2007, 02:55 AM
I've tried not posting back, and just ignoring you. Nothing works. In this case, you refuse to admit that your idol, Ronald Reagan, created this illegal alien mess with The Reagan Amnsety Bill, and the Republican Majority, since Reagan, has failed to keep their word about enforcement.

Can you think? Was the original bill, The Reagan's Amnesty Bill? Did we have mostly Republicans, in numbers, and time, running the show on the hill?

Now, things are so out of hand, our options have dwindled. Yes, I'd rather see the law enforced, but doing nothing while we're trying to seek out 12 to 30 million illegals, IS a danger from the Homeland Security point of view.

But you just go right on and make yourself comfortable, and blame the whole thing on Ted Kennedy, and the Democrats. just as you do with everything else, and call every one who have a different point of view, a liar.

You're toddler mentality, prohibits any reasonable debate. If I were your boss, you'd be fired...all your posts are during work hours. Minimum wage is too good for you.

Gayle in Md.