View Full Version : Furor Bush Dictates Politically To Surgeon General

Gayle in MD
07-11-2007, 10:19 AM
WASHINGTON, July 10 — Former Surgeon General Richard H. Carmona told a Congressional panel Tuesday that top Bush administration officials repeatedly tried to weaken or suppress important public health reports because of political considerations.

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Text: Dr. Richard Carmona’s Prepared Testimony (pdf)
Times Topics: Richard H. Carmona

Richard H. Carmona
The administration, Dr. Carmona said, would not allow him to speak or issue reports about stem cells, emergency contraception, sex education, or prison, mental and global health issues. Top officials delayed for years and tried to “water down” a landmark report on secondhand smoke, he said. Released last year, the report concluded that even brief exposure to cigarette smoke could cause immediate harm.

Dr. Carmona said he was ordered to mention President Bush three times on every page of his speeches. He also said he was asked to make speeches to support Republican political candidates and to attend political briefings.

And administration officials even discouraged him from attending the Special Olympics because, he said, of that charitable organization’s longtime ties to a “prominent family” that he refused to name.

“I was specifically told by a senior person, ‘Why would you want to help those people?’ ” Dr. Carmona said.

The Special Olympics is one of the nation’s premier charitable organizations to benefit disabled people, and the Kennedys have long been deeply involved in it.

When asked after the hearing if that “prominent family” was the Kennedys, Dr. Carmona responded, “You said it. I didn’t.”

In response to lawmakers’ questions, Dr. Carmona refused to name specific people in the administration who had instructed him to put political considerations over scientific ones. He said, however, that they included assistant secretaries of health and human services as well as top political appointees outside the department of health.

Dr. Carmona did offer to provide the names to the committee in a private meeting.

Bill Hall, a spokesman for the Department of Health and Human Services, said that the administration disagreed with Dr. Carmona’s statements. “It has always been this administration’s position that public health policy should be rooted in sound science,” Mr. Hall said.

Emily Lawrimore, a White House spokeswoman, said the surgeon general “is the leading voice for the health of all Americans.”

“It’s disappointing to us,” Ms. Lawrimore said, “if he failed to use this position to the fullest extent in advocating for policies he thought were in the best interests of the nation.”

Dr. Carmona is one of a growing list of present and former administration officials to charge that politics often trumped science within what had previously been largely nonpartisan government health and scientific agencies.

Dr. Carmona, 57, served as surgeon general for one four

<font color="red">I think the efforts against the Special Olympics, is particularly petty, disturbing and repulsive. </font color>

Gayle in Md.

07-11-2007, 12:58 PM
Gayle, reading that made me ill....
What a pos we have elected...and if anyone doesn't believe in
"managed news".....

07-11-2007, 04:47 PM
Didnt Reagan force an FDA ok for aspartayne (or whatever) even tho science said that it could make u sick'n'kill u. This woz after saccharine (or whatever) woz found to be lethal and corporations were frantic to find a replacement. madMac.

07-11-2007, 05:06 PM
Republican Presidents are like Indian Squaws...they'll do anything for a buck !!!!

07-11-2007, 05:21 PM
Reminds me of the cartoon where a very giddy squaw iz leeving a teepee and sez "thats the last time i'm doing that for 10 bucks". madMac.

07-12-2007, 06:12 AM
Didnt Reagan force an FDA ok for aspartayne (or whatever) even tho science said that it could make u sick'n'kill u. This woz after saccharine (or whatever) woz found to be lethal and corporations were frantic to find a replacement. madMac. <hr /></blockquote> Yep and because of that decision people are dropping like flies. There are now more people dying because of "aspartayne" than smoking.


07-12-2007, 09:35 AM
I see Ed has posted a reply.....I ain't going to bother reading it (I also read the daily newspaper, but skip the comic section)
It seems to me that there is no defense, no justification for Bush on this issue...

07-12-2007, 04:53 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr>&lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;Didnt Reagan force an FDA ok for aspartayne (or whatever) even tho science said that it could make u sick'n'kill u. This woz after saccharine (or whatever) woz found to be lethal and corporations were frantic to find a replacement. madMac.<hr /></blockquote>Yep and because of that decision people are dropping like flies. There are now more people dying because of "aspartayne" than smoking.eg8r<hr /></blockquote>Ed -- It gave rats cancer (i think). I wonder how one would rate the best (worst) killer of americans from the following short list....

......Corn-syrup (fructose).
......Transfats. madMac.

07-13-2007, 12:57 PM
Ed -- It gave rats cancer (i think). <hr /></blockquote> How many people are dying from it? You brought it up so I wanted to know just how serious it was.


07-13-2007, 01:03 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cushioncrawler:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr>&lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;Didnt Reagan force an FDA ok for aspartayne (or whatever) even tho science said that it could make u sick'n'kill u.

<font color="blue"> Aspartayne makes me suffer from Priopysm and I am tired of making my wife suffer through it. It's good old hard drugs for me, fvrom now on.</font color>

07-13-2007, 04:19 PM
I'm thinking if them rats (not the political ones) would improve their diets a little...they wouldn't be contracting so much cancer.
Some years ago I read where the larger European brown rats were coming over on merchant ships...and would soon be battling our native black rats for control of NYC's sewer system...does anybody know who won?
Our "guys" won't have a chance with all this disease....
On a more serious note...the human body only has so much blood...and the engorging blood ...as gravity dictates, comes from the highest point....the brain. Usually this is no problem for the 2 min, and 33 secs it takes to complete coitus...but...

07-13-2007, 05:43 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> &lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
Ed -- It gave rats cancer (i think). <hr /></blockquote> How many people are dying from it? You brought it up so I wanted to know just how serious it was. eg8r<hr /></blockquote>Ed -- I havta rush so karnt get all the facts right now, but there iz plenty of stuff on google. Here iz one article......

By Arthur M. Evangelista, a former FDA Investigator

I am a former investigator who worked with the US Food and Drug Administration: This is what I have to say about Aspartame and the people who brought it to our tables.
As a former FDA investigator, I was charged with overseeing two major projects for the FDA. These concerned Pesticides and Chemicals in Foods and Illegal Drug Tissue Residues in Animals (including milk related issues).
I worked closely with the sister Federal and State agencies, oversaw contracts, I was a coordinator and lead investigator on projects involving EPA and USDA. The FDA, in the mid-70's to mid-90's was not a large organization, having an annual budget no greater than a medium-sized hospital by 1995.
The problems with aspartame include not only the biochemical nature of this toxin but also it sheds light on the political nature of the players involved. The changes in regulatory policies and regulations resulting from corporate-government ties and the politicians closely associated with these ties.
What I can tell you, regarding toxicology, histology and biochemistry, is that aspartame is neurotoxic. Its components easily transcend the blood-brain barrier, interfering with normal nerve cell function. This affects the glutathione and calcium mechanisms in place, destroying nerve call integrity. The methanol then breaks down into formaldehyde-formic acid components, which denaturizes/mutates the DNA: a known scientific fact. The subsequent result from this interaction and from isolates of genetically modified amino acids, the methanol, is nerve cell necrosis and subsequent organ system degradation.
The hypothalamus alone (the major controller for much of the endocrine system), is at especially high risk to these effects...thereby, affecting many other organ systems. I have seen first hand the effects on symptoms when individuals have abstained from ingesting the artificial sweetener, aspartame. Make no bones about it, aspartame is a major factor in many symptomologies due to its effects upon brain chemistry.
Coming from a family and relatives of physicians, I know only too well that if there was even a chance that something was wrong with a patient, a truly committed physician would thoroughly investigate any etiology (or cause) regarding an illness (both chronic and sub chronic), rather than retain a close-minded approach to the available data. This just boggles my mind when those, who are supposed to know better; choose to adhere to the organized rhetoric of industry-backed misinformation, without giving the true scientific facts an opportunity to sink in. At the least, consider the possibilities. I guarantee, the truth will then become self-evident!
The biggest lie told, is one of self-deceit; not to mention, all the people made ill and killed in the process of 'ignorant medicine' eg a doctor has sold his skills and MD diploma to industrial chemical manufacturers, pharmaceutical firms or even to governmental associations!! Money is money...right, Doc?
Prior to the approval of aspartame, the FDA sent two specialized teams to G.D. Searle and found a ghastly 95% level of misdirected testing; concealed tests, collusion between corporate and their company-funded research; inappropriate antemortum issues; withholding of material facts; alterations of records: lying to investigators, lost records, no records; falsification of reports, bribery, poor test methodology or design...et al.
FDA investigators Brodsky and Bressler, both seasoned federal investigators, each led investigative teams to review Searle's lab practices. These practices at Searle were despicable and should have been thrown out. This is a fact. The actual report are displayed on http://www.dorway.com. Unfortunately, many ethics in the law were also violated during this time period, by the various government departments in the USA. This was further corrupted by politicians involved with corporate constituents who in turn affected the regulatory process in favour of these constituents. Another name for this, of course, is 'bribery'.
This was nothing less than full-blown collusion. The 'revolving door' at the FDA, is very much a reality. Former corporate officials, who began working for the Food and Drug Administration (and vice versa), were very cavalier about issues uncovered at Searle surrounding their drug processing and issues involved with aspartame. Some, with a hidden agenda of promised secret money or better jobs, actively hindered the investigation into G. D. Searle's laboratory practices. It is obvious when you see the records and numbers and where those jobs were. These are a matter of public and Congressional Record. Subsequently, many former FDA officials, due to their 'favorable influences' with regulatory enforcement and rulings, were in fact, rewarded with corporate positions and lucrative incomes, including former FDA Commissioner Arthur Hull Hayes, who was about to be brought up on ethics and misconduct charges!
The whole process was (is still) rotten throughout. The various dependent research completed on aspartame proves this (in part, a chemical warfare agent) is a neurotoxin. It is unlike any other compound on the market. Each of its three components are toxic.
The only people I have met or communicated with, who have steadfastly refused to look at this picture for what it is, have been found to have other agendas, other than the truth. Not even a skeptic, like my brother (a chief microbiologist) could ignore the factual evidence of aspartame's neurotoxicity when presented with the evidence. Being a skeptic is one thing, but to deny the evidence, the motives and the pieces of a rather complex and sordid puzzle with common denominators, is ludicrous; you would have to be braindead. To still adhere to the narrow focus of the corporate spin-doctors and corporate-back rhetoric from federal regulators, means that you have clearly chosen to purposefully close your mind to the evidence and/o you are operating with a pro-industry (hidden) agenda.
There is rampant corruption in these processes and it behoves all educated, law enforcement and scientific-minded individuals to look at the entire picture to piece together one of the biggest travesties in public health history. The common thread which ties everything together is; the strong political influences, the monumental amounts of money used to purchase the souls of those who have placed greed above common sense, public health and the trust of public office.
As an investigator, I found this hard to believe at first, that so many factors have come together to collude in such a way, to allow aspartame into our food supply. Regardless of how I initially felt about it, the evidence is factual ....it happened. Now we have to do something about it, because it is nothing less than MASS MURDER.
Additionally and historically, many recalled products, including FDA regulated products, were once thought safe. DDT was once thought to be safe, remember?
History of the regulatory problems, fraud, deceit and scientific corruption with various drug products would serve you well to remember here.
Regulatory problems and corruption resulting in mass-illness or deaths with various prescription drugs and drug-tissue residues in foods (antibiotics) which was known by the FDA since the mid 80's, perpetuating further our problems with antibiotic resistant germs.
Remember Agent Orange? How long did it take the US government to even acknowledge that there was a problem with spraying a dioxin compound all over the Asian forests during Vietnam? Monsanto never said a word during this period; no chemical manufacturer did. It was years before the veterans, who gave their lives or whose lives were ruined, were even given the acknowledgement that there was a problem. The Gulf War Veterans were in the same boat for a while. Maybe someone will pay attention to their plight.
Many policies, I found out, were not made to protect the public health, but rather, to provide leverage at appropriation time before Congress and to protect the industry and their political government. This is especially true when they were paid for their 'services' by the pharmaceutical or chemical industries. This is what I call 'social cancer'. Many systems for protecting the public health are (were) less than effective...making very little difference on public health issues. Much of it was for 'show' and for funding. It was the folks in Rockville and Washington who made the final decisions on how to play most of these issues out. Unfortunately for us, it was not to favor the public health processes. The entire process reeks of political and corporate influence. Many mainstream media newscats and reports have exposed this problem.
There are regulatory or enforcement agencies that have questionably close ties with industry, aside from an unethical revolving door. These ties are even illegal in some aspects and compromise an agency's ability to regulate. It compromises not only the integrity of the agency, but the information being disseminated, as well. Everything becomes suspect. Then the spin-doctors are called into action.
So tell me then, why do government agencies support and make policies around industrial concerns, like pharmaceutical or chemical manufacturing firms? The answer is easy: Money and/or power! Why aren't government agencies remaining impartial? Somebody has a little influence, that is why and, this influence is not in the public's best interest. Follow the money trail.
The truth has been difficult to come by. Investigators, lay people, teachers, educators, regulators and whistleblowers have, piece by piece, put this highly complex puzzle together and now see this issue for what it is. The evidence is there. Unfortunately, I have found that many physicians, including those who can make substantial incomes from treating the effects of the neurotoxin aspartame (and other medically 'healable' issues) would rather people did not find out about its effects on brain chemistry. Giving doctors the benefit of the doubt, if they do not consider aspartame poisoning as a cause for concern or instigator of symptoms, they are simply not very good investigators. Then may be the doctor should try carpentry or other non-patient related work.
In truth, doctors have a business. This is a sub-set of business treatment practices that is making money based on the introduction of a poisonous product. I also found out that the large government health association and many other so-called health groups, have received substantial money, contributions, or stipends from industry regarding their products.
This includes certain public health associations - the very people who are supposed to be helping the public, who for legal reasons cannot be named here, they like many others, diabolically support aspartame and the money it has made them. They are businesses... and business goes before public health. Look at any health association and check out the list of their contributors and tell me what you see.
Regarding aspartame, I have written articles about this substance, they explained the processes that allowed aspartame into the marketplace, through various reports and information uncovered whilst I was with the agency and afterwards, with the help of other investigators and agency data. Much of this information is available for review, you can draw your own conclusions.
Open your mind. Know that the government-corporate issues have shocked us before, to our collective dismay. I urge you to consider all the factors; ... the political, physiological and regulatory processes which created the mistaken and unfortunate acceptance of this toxin in our food supply. This information is not 'what I think' nor how I feel...
...It is a fact, that ASPARTAME SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN APPROVED based on the information submitted to the FDA, including the information that was not submitted. It is a fact that politics and those with 'hidden agendas' illegally affected the regulatory processes, misused and abused their authority, to bring to market this toxic food additive.
If you drink aspartame and have experienced health problems, then cease your consumption of it (and its cousin MSG) for 60 days and see if your symptoms disappear. You have nothing to lose. If you do not follow this simple experiment for 60 days, you could lose your life. Additionally, educate yourselves. It is your body, your health and your life.
For further information see the following websites:
http://www.dorway.com Experts on Aspartame, government records, UPI and CDC investigations, books by physicians, protest of National Soft Drink Assn, Class Action, support groups,Etc.
http://www.holisticmed.com/aspartame Aspartame Toxicity Center
http://www.truthinlabeling.org MSG
http://www.sunsentpress.com Books by H. J. Roberts, M.D. including Aspartame Disease: An Ignored Epidemic, medical text on global plague
http://www.ana-jana.org Russell Blaylock, M.D.,neurosurgeon, book, Excitotoxins: The Taste That Kills on aspartame and MSG and his new book on how to get well, Health &amp; Nutrition Secrets To Save Your Life. Also at http://www.amazon.com
Note from Betty Martini, Founder, Mission Possible Intl (http://www.dorway.com - 770 242-2599), global unpaid volunteer force warning the world off aspartame: Updates: The European Parliament has voted to re-examine aspartame. They will also examine Stevia which got outlawed for no reason except to keep consumers using the toxin aspartame. There are at least 500 studies on Stevia showing safety and you can contact the Stevita Company in Dallas, Texas, Oscar Rodes (petro@mindspring.com). The actual consumption by humans without a single report of undesired side effects over a long period of time (30 years in Japan, 15 years in Brazil in the extract form, and centuries in Paraguay and Brazil on the leaves form) demonstrates that the product is safe for its intended use - that is as a sweetener. It is the salvation of diabetics as it helps in the metabolism of sugar whereas aspartame can precipitate diabetes, keeps blood sugar out of control, destroys the optic nerve, can cause diabetics to go into convulsions and even interacts with insulin. It is particularly pushed on diabetics. It has caused an epidemic of diabetes and obesity, as it is a drug that makes you crave carbohydrates so you gain weight. See protest of National Soft Drink Association on www.dorway.com (http://www.dorway.com) and Aspartame Makes You Fatter by Sandra Cabot, M.D. Also read Aspartame and Diabetes and Hypoglycemia by diabetic specialist H. J. Roberts, M.D.
No drug is safe on the market as long as aspartame exists as it interacts with just about every drug used to treat the problems it causes completely outlined in a chapter on drug interaction in Aspartame Disease: An Ignored Epidemic by Roberts. One out of four are having drug interactions! Two-thirds of the population in America and 40% of our children are using this deadly chemical poison that interacts with drugs and as a chemical hypersensitization agent interacts with vaccines, other toxins and unsafe additives.
I have filed a Citizens Petition with the FDA based on the fact their records show aspartame to be deadly and yet they lie to the public. They have been told not to send their FDA propaganda rag, the FDA Consumer or a packet of Federal Registers. The law requires they answer in six months. It has been 10 months and they have not answered. To read the entire Board of Inquiry report of the FDA saying not to approve aspartame and the famed Dr. John Olney's paper to the Board of Inquiry telling them what would happen to the brains of our children go to www.greatfallspro.com (http://www.greatfallspro.com) Mission Possible Maine. They supply special equipment to read the original documents.
Please contact Betty Martini, Bettym19@mindspring.com (770 242-2599) if you have suffered brain tumors, seizures or blindness or eye deterioration from aspartame for class action.
I leave you with the profound words of James Bowen, M.D., who has Lou Gehrigs from aspartame in his paper Aspartame Murders Infants, Violates Federal Domestic GEnocide Law: "Aspartame is sold as NutraSweet, Equal, Spoonful, Canderel, Benevia, E951, etc., and is in thousands of foods and diet drinks. At every point in the fertility process aspartame destroys, beginning with the gleam in Mom and Pop's eyes. It ruins female sexual response and induces male sexual dysfunction. Beyond this, aspartame disrupts fetal development by aborting it or inducing defects. And if a live child is born aspartame may have heinously damaged the DNA of the baby, cursing future generations."
Is NutraSweet a Neurotoxin? You bet your aspartame! It's only appropriate use is as a rat killer and to kill fire ants.

07-14-2007, 06:28 PM
Q, what I will never understand...is the blanket denial of any news that might reflect badly upon this admin....and this even goes back beyond....
Instead of just being political, it seems it's more cultish.
I think they might have their head up their Aspartame...
Well, maybe when they're force fed the Kool-Aid....

07-14-2007, 06:48 PM
Woolfy -- Terrorists can learn from corporate america. The best way (only way in most cases) to push your [censored] is to bribe the politicians and their political appointees.

Osama &amp; Co must spend millions blowing up people, this $$$ would get more bang/$ if they uzed it for bribes. And, they could offer highly paid jobs (later) with El Queada.

Or, Plan B, Osama shood just buy shares in Coca Cola etc etc and kill more americans than any amount of bombs, and in fact show a profit, and in fact get to have your ar$e licked by the prez and all america. madMac.

07-14-2007, 10:05 PM
The press has a lot to answer for. At the last Press con GW talked about war fatigue and making sacrifices.
Did anyone ask GW about who was making those sacrifices?
Did anyone mention that the volunteer army was now being forced to do more tour duty than any US soldier ever?

Why don't those who believe in this war just go and sign up.

No chance.
if they would introduce a draft in six months time- no exceptions- you won't belive how quickly a withdraw would suddenly become a good move.


07-15-2007, 09:08 PM
Q, what I will never understand...is the blanket denial of any news that might reflect badly upon this admin....and this even goes back beyond.... <hr /></blockquote> Why are you responding to cushions post and calling him Q?


Gayle in MD
07-16-2007, 09:01 AM
Religious fanatics don't think in reasonable terms. Hence, we have unreasonable fanatics trying to force their ideology at the point of guns and bombs, on the terrorist side, and religious fanatics in the White House, trying to force their own ideology at the point of guns and bombs, in the Arab world.

Bush uses God to justify his assault on mankind, al Qaeda uses Allah. Under all the religious claims, on both sides, is the oil.

I personally se no difference between Bush, and bin Laden. They both use fear to force their will upon others, and justify their actions, with their supposed link to God.

It's all BULL****!

There are two good thinks happening. More and more women are at the helm in countries around the world.

Some people are working to save the planet, and free up the scientific community, from the fascist political and religious corruption which is at the bottom of all of it.

Gayle in Md.

07-16-2007, 04:20 PM
Gayle -- Hey, its snowing here, biggest flakes i ever saw, but its warmish here, and there iz too much rain mixed with it, and its melting straight away. We spent all yesterday (nice sunny day) looking for our missing jack russell, good thing we found it before today's snow (sleet??). madMac.

Gayle in MD
07-17-2007, 06:22 AM
Wow, I must admit, I'm not a student of normal weather for your location, but isn't that a bit incredible? I didn't hear a thing about that on the news.

I wish it were snowing in Iraq! I'd like to see our soldiers get a break from being laden down like camels, in 130 degrees in Baghdad, to give the Iraqi parliament some "time" and "Breathing room" to settle their differences...only the Parliament is going on vacation in August, while our troops will still be the targets of all the killers. This is absoluty insane. /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

07-17-2007, 04:21 PM
Later in the day the snow woz allmost 2" thick, lost my satellite connection due to snow i think -- so i went into town for some billiards praktis. Praktis woz terrible, so i brort out my cue with the rectangular tip, went a bit better. Snow all gone when i got home. Snows about once a year here, elevation iz only 417m. Today iz supposed to be colder than yesterday, but dont know whether will snow. Oh, while in town, i dropped in on a glazier, and asked the lady to make me an 88mm by 140mm by 5mm glass "plate", that i will uze to test tables for level -- u put the glass plate on the table and a ball on the plate -- if the ball rolls off it aint level. She must have been fairly smart, koz she said "it wouldnt be much good if your ballz werent perfectly round". But u koodnt blame that on the Surgeon General. madMac.

Gayle in MD
07-17-2007, 07:06 PM
Wow, what an interesting post, rectangular cue tip /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif never knew theere was such a thing, and I didn't realize you had snow there, even in high elevations. I know very little about your part of the world.

Gayle in Md.

Gayle in Md.

07-17-2007, 07:58 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr>Wow, what an interesting post, rectangular cue tip /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif never knew there was such a thing, and I didn't realize you had snow there, even in high elevations. I know very little about your part of the world...<hr /></blockquote>Yeah -- The tip and cue were round, but i sanded 2 flats into the brass ferrule and the tip (this woz a few years ago). Actually, i allso cut a flat side into one side of the shaft (parallel to the flat tip) for about 1/2 the length of the shaft, so that the shaft bends'n'bucks in that direction, to help the screw etc action (and for better sidespin). Allso, i just now added 3 oz wt (bits of lead) to the butt to bring the total wt to 18.1oz. Yep -- 2007 could be my year. Dont know what this might have to do with the Surgeon General, unless i give my opponent lead poizoning. I think that Ozz haz more area of snow, and/or more length of ski-runs, than Switzerland, alltho anyone around here with brains duz their skiing in New Zealand. madMac.

07-18-2007, 07:54 AM
Gayle there was an Article in the New Yorker entitled Political Science, that dealt with the Religious Right Wackos sending a Preacher to the WHO forum on stopping the spread of Aids. His method was abstinence, The WHO, not the Band, Eg8r, banned him from participating and the US withheld funding for that program. The World Health Orginization now gets their money from Bill Gates.

Condoms is only short for Condominiums not for the spread aids.####