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Sandiego9
07-23-2007, 05:26 PM
I am looking for the different ways to treat a le pro before using it. I have heard milk, any recommendations?

wolfdancer
07-23-2007, 06:35 PM
Fava beans and a nice Chianti....candle light....
I'd toss them out myself, since in a box of 50...you can expect about 10 failures...
Guido, who does tips at many of the pro tournaments...presses his LePros in a vise....tests and grades them for hardness
Since the leather has already been cured....not sure what the milk would do....and if you get one that's lactose intolerant.....

1Time
07-23-2007, 08:31 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Sandiego9:</font><hr> I am looking for the different ways to treat a le pro before using it. I have heard milk, any recommendations? <hr /></blockquote>

Besides tossing it which sounds good to me, you could use one of those pricker things, play for a while, use it again, and repeat a few more times as needed. The LePro tip on my new cue is too hard and needs some pricking. I really need to get it replaced though.

DeadCrab
07-24-2007, 06:19 AM
There are people who soak them in milk and vice them. The theory is that enzymes in the milk change the structure of the tip. For the effort involved, why not buy a different tip that suits your needs?

Rich R.
07-24-2007, 06:41 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DeadCrab:</font><hr>
There are people who soak them in milk and vice them. The theory is that enzymes in the milk change the structure of the tip. For the effort involved, why not buy a different tip that suits your needs? <hr /></blockquote>
I have only heard about the milk and vise treatment being done on the soft Elkmaster tips, not the harder LePro's. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif
I doubt that it would have the same effect on the harder LePro's, because the milk and vise treatment is suppose to make the soft Elkmaster tip harder.
I have heard of putting the LePro tips in a vise, for a while, without the milk treatment. I believe it is suppose to shorten the break in period, after they are installed, but I could be wrong about that.

IMHO, there are enough different tips on the market, you should be able to find one you like, without any extra treatments. It is just a matter of seeking out the one you like. You also have to consider that all tips change, at least a little bit, over their lifetime, because of use.

bsmutz
07-24-2007, 10:19 AM
I had always thought that the main impetus behind putting a tip in a vise was to compress it so that it wouldn't mushroom as much once it was installed. I would never have a Le Pro on any of my cues again. I gave them three chances and they failed each time.

Rich R.
07-24-2007, 11:27 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bsmutz:</font><hr> I had always thought that the main impetus behind putting a tip in a vise was to compress it so that it wouldn't mushroom as much once it was installed.<hr /></blockquote>
I believe you are correct. By compressing it in the vise, you simulate the break in period, when the tip naturally compresses. After removal from the vise and installation, the tip shouldn't mushroom as much as a new tip, because it has already been compressed, and mushroomed, in the vise.
This is all theory to me. I have never done it.

KellyStick
07-24-2007, 11:36 AM
Just get rid of the Le Pro rock and put something softer on. Unless you like miscuing more than is necessary.

Cornerman
07-24-2007, 12:52 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote KellyStick:</font><hr> Unless you like miscuing more than is necessary. <hr /></blockquote>How much miscuing is necessary?

Fred &lt;~~~ doesn't think "hardness" has anything to do with miscuing

Dagwood
07-24-2007, 03:03 PM
Just throw a Moori on there. Problem solved....

Dags

bsmutz
07-24-2007, 03:08 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cornerman:</font><hr> How much miscuing is necessary?<hr /></blockquote>
Well, given that most of us have to miscue a few times at least to figure out how far out on the cue ball you can go without doing it and to remind us we need to chalk up fairly frequently, in my case it was necessary a few thousand times! /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Rich R.
07-24-2007, 10:02 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cornerman:</font><hr> How much miscuing is necessary?<hr /></blockquote>
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bsmutz:</font><hr> Well, given that most of us have to miscue a few times at least to figure out how far out on the cue ball you can go without doing it and to remind us we need to chalk up fairly frequently, in my case it was necessary a few thousand times! /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif <hr /></blockquote>
If your miscuing, because you are hitting the cue ball too close to the edge, or not chalking, your miscues have nothing to do with the hardness of the tip.
Although I haven't used them recently, I have used Le Pro tips and I have never had any increased number of miscues. We all miscue, on occassion, but I would never blame it on the tip hardness, even though I am not a fan of very hard tips.

Fran Crimi
07-24-2007, 10:18 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cornerman:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote KellyStick:</font><hr> Unless you like miscuing more than is necessary. <hr /></blockquote>How much miscuing is necessary?

Fred &lt;~~~ doesn't think "hardness" has anything to do with miscuing <hr /></blockquote>

Tip hardness may not be the direct cause of miscuing but players who are used to playing with medium hardness tips who suddenly find themselves with a hard tip, will experience more miscues.

Why? I think it's because hard tips need to be roughed more frequently than medium tips. Players are programmed when to rough their tips. Old habits die hard, they say. A medium tip player isn't going to rough the hard tip enough and---voila! Miscue! Happens to me every time I find myself with a hard tip on my shaft (usually by accident).

Fran

1Time
07-24-2007, 10:19 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote KellyStick:</font><hr> Just get rid of the Le Pro rock and put something softer on. Unless you like miscuing more than is necessary. <hr /></blockquote>

In general harder tips play better and last longer than softer ones. Too hard is not good either (except for a break cue) since this will inhibit its ability to hold chalk well. To reduce miscues, don't hit too far off center of the CB, adequately shape and skuff the tip, and correctly chalk it. Edit: Also, shape the tip so it looks like the curve of a dime.

Fran Crimi
07-25-2007, 07:09 AM
Actually, the most desired tip of the pros back in the '70s (and before) was the Champion Tip. That was the Rolls Royce of tips. When scuffed, it had a yellowish tinge to it. I remember the players first soaking the tips in milk, then placing them in a vice for a few days for them to mushroom. The milk soak was to soften the tip and break down the fibers. The tip would emerge from the milk thicker than when it went into the milk. They pretty much did that with all the tips back then, including the Elk Masters. Those tips were known for being on the thin side to begin with.

The milk soak did decrease the life of the tip, but it was the general concensus that the tips played better and held chalk better after the soak.

In the '80s the tip of choice was the Le Pro. I wouldn't be surprised if they are made pretty much the same now as they were in the '80s. It's just that the tips have gotten so much better now that the Le Pros are now considered by many to be inferior to what's out there today.

Fran

Deeman3
07-25-2007, 07:29 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr> Actually, the most desired tip of the pros back in the '70s (and before) was the Champion Tip. That was the Rolls Royce of tips. When scuffed, it had a yellowish tinge to it. I remember the players first soaking the tip in milk, then placing it in a vice for a few days for them to mushroom. The milk soak was to soften the tip and break down the fibers. The tip would emerge from the milk thicker than when it went into the milk. They pretty much did that with all the tips back then, including the Elk Masters. Those tips were known for being on the thin side to begin with.

The milk soak did decrease the life of the tip, but it was the general concensus that the tips played better and held chalk better after the soak.

In the '80s the tip of choice was the Le Pro. I wouldn't be surprised if they are made pretty much the same now as they were in the '80s. It's just that the tips have gotten so much better now that the Le Pros are now considered inferior to what's out there today.

Fran

<hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue"> You are right on the Le Pro being a popular tip in the 1980's but I really do beleive they are less consistent in manufacture than they were back then. Of course, that could be faulty memory but I don't remember having that many rejects in a box back then.

We all desired hard tips, not just for hit but for wear. When many of us played back then, it was many more hours then today and you wanted the tip to last. Not just the cost of replacement but the bother of break in periods. With the advent of bar pool, short races and bar type gambling, most of us play much less in terms of number of balls hit per week by a factor of many times. Some of that may be age but I don't see marathon matches anymore. When we evil gamblers played, God knows when we would finsih. Now, at most you might play a few hours and mostly, i play a race to whatever and mabe repeat that a few times and it's bedtime for all.....maybe I'm just getting old but I don't know of anny all nighters anywhere anymore. Not just speaking for me but the younger players may play as few as ten games a night in BCA or APA plus a few warm-up games and the night is over.

I'm sure it is different in NYC where there are still hotbeds of pool but I just am not around that type playground much. /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Hey, you young kids, do you play all night on occasion? Have you ever had a "lost weekend" of pool going from, practically Friday night through Sunday on hamburgers, a few hours sleep and back at it? What is a long session now?

Fran, in many cases you really couldn't leave until the other guy went bust or you said "uncle", at least where I grew up. </font color>

Chopstick
07-25-2007, 10:12 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr> Actually, the most desired tip of the pros back in the '70s (and before) was the Champion Tip. That was the Rolls Royce of tips. When scuffed, it had a yellowish tinge to it. I remember the players first soaking the tips in milk, then placing them in a vice for a few days for them to mushroom. The milk soak was to soften the tip and break down the fibers. The tip would emerge from the milk thicker than when it went into the milk. They pretty much did that with all the tips back then, including the Elk Masters. Those tips were known for being on the thin side to begin with.

The milk soak did decrease the life of the tip, but it was the general concensus that the tips played better and held chalk better after the soak.

In the '80s the tip of choice was the Le Pro. I wouldn't be surprised if they are made pretty much the same now as they were in the '80s. It's just that the tips have gotten so much better now that the Le Pros are now considered by many to be inferior to what's out there today.

Fran

<hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue">The French Champion tip was the best ever. That's what everybody used. The guy who made 'em died and and everybody switched over to LePros. They weren't near the tip that the Champion was. Back then there wasn't a lot to choose from. I never liked them. I like them even less today. I used to put them on peoples sticks if they ask for them. I have also had to replace a bunch of them when they went bad. I wouldn't even consider using them anymore. They are just a crap tip anymore. The Moori feels like a Champion ot me. The medium is a little harder and the soft is softer than a Champion used to be.

As far as the playability of a hard and soft tip, I feel like a soft tip bites the ball better on the finesse shots. All those tiny little draws and follows when you are moving through a straight pool or one pocket rack. On the other hand for those hard hittin games like nineball, tenball, banks, etc. a soft tip won't hold it's shape or last as long as a hard tip.

Once in a lesson with Buddy Hall I said I just wasn't able the put the amount of spin on the cue ball that he was asking me to do. He watched me hit a few shots. He told me that even though I was lining up with with the outside of the ball, on my final stroke I was moving back toward the center of the ball. As a result I was not using all of the ball. He said I was doing it because I was afraid of mis-cueing. I thought about it and I agreed. Then he said "How often do you mis-cue?" I said "Never." He said "Well then, what are you afraid of?"

Well I have to say he fixed me right up that day. I miscue all the time now! /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

</font color>

Chopstick
07-25-2007, 10:15 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr> Actually, the most desired tip of the pros back in the '70s (and before) was the Champion Tip. That was the Rolls Royce of tips. When scuffed, it had a yellowish tinge to it. I remember the players first soaking the tips in milk, then placing them in a vice for a few days for them to mushroom. The milk soak was to soften the tip and break down the fibers. The tip would emerge from the milk thicker than when it went into the milk. They pretty much did that with all the tips back then, including the Elk Masters. Those tips were known for being on the thin side to begin with.

The milk soak did decrease the life of the tip, but it was the general concensus that the tips played better and held chalk better after the soak.

In the '80s the tip of choice was the Le Pro. I wouldn't be surprised if they are made pretty much the same now as they were in the '80s. It's just that the tips have gotten so much better now that the Le Pros are now considered by many to be inferior to what's out there today.

Fran

<hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue">The French Champion tip was the best ever. That's what everybody used. The guy who made 'em died and and everybody switched over to LePros. They weren't near the tip that the Champion was. Back then there wasn't a lot to choose from. I never liked them. I like them even less today. I used to put them on peoples sticks if they ask for them. I have also had to replace a bunch of them when they went bad. I wouldn't even consider using them anymore. They are just a crap tip anymore. The Moori feels like a Champion ot me. The medium is a little harder and the soft is softer than a Champion used to be.

As far as the playability of a hard and soft tip, I feel like a soft tip bites the ball better on the finesse shots. All those tiny little draws and follows when you are moving through a straight pool or one pocket rack. On the other hand for those hard hittin games like nineball, tenball, banks, etc. a soft tip won't hold it's shape or last as long as a hard tip.

Once in a lesson with Buddy Hall I said I just wasn't able the put the amount of spin on the cue ball that he was asking me to do. He watched me hit a few shots. He told me that even though I was lining up with with the outside of the ball, on my final stroke I was moving back toward the center of the ball. As a result I was not using all of the ball. He said I was doing it because I was afraid of mis-cueing. I thought about it and I agreed. Then he said "How often do you mis-cue?" I said "Never." He said "Well then, what are you afraid of?"

Well I have to say he fixed me right up that day. I miscue all the time now! /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

</font color>

KellyStick
07-25-2007, 11:34 AM
Ok, you got me! Uncle! I have no answer for the necessary amount of miscuing. Further to my dislike of LE Pro tips is they seem to come on many sticks you buy. Or at least that is what I have been told or read. The last two sticks I had them on had problems. The first had noticeably less "grab" on the CB than I was accustomed to, even after all sorts of shaping and pricking. I replaced it and all was well.

The last was simply intolerable. I shaped, and pricked, and fluffed, and stroked and so on over an over until I gave up. It was a miscue nightmare! You were lucky if you could stop a ball much less draw it. This was no ordinary thing. What was so killer about this was that I was in the middle east (Saudi Arabia) and did not have much recourse to make repairs. I had to live with it for 6 months. That sucked real bad. This is when my gross dislike began.

Now it may be that these things are put on so many different sticks that get handled in so many different ways that they simply become inconsistent. I have had the guy that puts the tips on my sticks complain for years that there are very few good tips these days.

Jager85
07-25-2007, 12:41 PM
It is true that the miscue usually comes from a bad stroke or too much of a tip offset. However, use an Elk Master and use a Le Pro and see the difference in the maximum tip offset allowed before a miscue. The difference for me is about 1/8-1/4 tip offset. This can be huge in some very tight situations.

Jager

Fran Crimi
07-25-2007, 01:35 PM
Buddy had a pet peeve about players not willing to venture out on the edge of the cb. He told me, "To be a good player, you've got to be able to play all over the ball."

It's like taking a divot in golf for the first time, or the first time you scraped the cloth on a draw stroke. It takes you right out of your comfort zone, but if you keep at it, it has many bonuses.

Wear your miscues proudly! It means you're no longer afraid of the unknown. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Fran

Fran Crimi
07-25-2007, 01:40 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Fran, in many cases you really couldn't leave until the other guy went bust or you said "uncle", at least where I grew up.
<hr /></blockquote>

Yup. It was the law of the land where I grew up, too. Nowadays, they'll quit winners on you before you even have a chance to catch a stroke. And people wonder why there aren't as many big matches around....

Fran

wolfdancer
07-26-2007, 02:05 AM
I bought a box of Champions back then...seems like they cost around $65 a box, compared to around $20 for the LePros.
But they began having an adhesion problem....the tip would just "fall" off of the fiber pad....
Tweeten also puts out the Triangle tip, cures the leather differently than the LePros....and for the $$... it plays pretty good.
A LePro on a good stick, is like a Firestone on a Ford Explorer....you never know when it's going to explode...