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eg8r
08-14-2007, 12:39 PM
Well, it looks like NASA and the global warming people are keeping this pretty quiet. NASA's mistake (http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/story.html?id=61b0590f-c5e6-4772-8cd1-2fefe0905363)... [ QUOTE ]
In his enviro-propaganda flick, An Inconvenient Truth, Al Gore claims nine of the 10 hottest years on record have occurred in the last decade. That's been a common refrain for environmentalists...
Last week, NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies -- whose temperature records are a key component of the global-warming claim (and whose director, James Hansen, is a sort of godfather of global-warming alarmism) -- quietly corrected an error in its data set that had made recent temperatures seem warmer than they really were.

A little less than a decade ago, the U.S. government changed the way it recorded temperatures. No one thought to correlate the new temperatures with the old ones, though -- no one until Canadian researcher Steve McIntyre, that is.

McIntyre has become the bane of many warmers' religious-like belief in climate catastrophe. In 2003, along with economist Ross McKitrick, McIntyre demolished the Mann "hockey stick" --a graph that showed stable temperatures for 1,000 years, then shooting up dangerously in the last half of the 20th Century.

The graph was used prominently by the UN and nearly every major eco lobby. But McIntyre and McKitrick demonstrated it was based on incomplete and inaccurate data.

To NASA's credit, when McIntyre pointed out their temperature errors they quickly made corrections.

Still, the pro-warmers who dominate the Goddard Institute almost certainly recognized the impacts these changes would have on the global-warming debate, because they made no formal announcement of their recalculations... <hr /></blockquote> Looks like more and more proof the global warming hysterics are only keeping up their antics to make sure those grants continue to fill their coffers. They certainly are not interested in the truth.

[ QUOTE ]
The 15 hottest years since 1880 are spread over seven decades. Eight occurred before atmospheric carbon dioxide began its recent rise; seven occurred afterwards. <hr /></blockquote> Looks pretty even. The funny thing is that the looney global warming goons of today are probably the same ones who 30 years ago thought the world was freezing over.

eg8r

Drop1
08-14-2007, 07:35 PM
I think everyone should scroll down,and read the five facts of global warming. There is a Christian view of global warming,I found interesting.

Deeman3
08-15-2007, 01:41 AM
Simply being in Alabama for the last 11 days has convinced me that global warming is a fact,at leat this month.

sack316
08-15-2007, 03:25 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman3:</font><hr> Simply being in Alabama for the last 11 days has convinced me that global warming is a fact,at leat this month. <hr /></blockquote>

Deeman, it's just because we live here and we're HOT! If we left the state the heat wave would simply follow you and me wherever we may go. The price of beauty is steep my friend, but somehow we have managed for years /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Sack

Deeman3
08-15-2007, 06:19 AM
Sack,

You know, for some reason, I buy that!

eg8r
08-15-2007, 10:15 AM
Where was that.

eg8r

Gayle in MD
08-15-2007, 11:14 AM
Guess some people didn't watch when the Scientist from NASA testified, under oath, about how this administration skews Scientific reposts, using intimidation, and by literally censoring the reports after their written. Just a minor little detail. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

eg8r
08-15-2007, 01:21 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Guess some people didn't watch when the Scientist from NASA testified, under oath, about how this administration skews Scientific reposts, using intimidation, and by literally censoring the reports after their written. Just a minor little detail. <hr /></blockquote> You always talk about facts, well the facts say there is no difference real difference in temps since 1880. Just to help you out, this data is captured, unaltered, before the current administration can get their grubby hands on it. Once again though, you prove you have no intention of being objective because your hatred is blinding any logical thought you might have once possessed.

eg8r

moblsv
08-15-2007, 06:48 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr>well the facts say there is no difference real difference in temps since 1880.<hr /></blockquote>

As usual, you have no idea what the facts are.

heater451
08-15-2007, 07:00 PM
This one makes your head hurt to read, and I apologize for just pasting a link, but: click me (http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=11).

McKitrick &amp; McIntyre are mentioned as well.


The only other thing I'll add is, it sure seems hotter than when I was a kid, and it seems to get hotter each successive year.

Peace.

==================================

nAz
08-15-2007, 08:18 PM
Ed maybe your right and it is a hoax, I dont think so too much evidence against it being wrong but...

anyways is it not better for all of us, the world included if we stop burning fossil fuel and releasing so much carbon emissions.
Think about this no more relying on foreign oil no more high prices to warm and cool our homes. no more polluting our air and destroying wild live in the process.
Oh my imagine the new booming economy we could have if we develop and use new alternative energies. we should all be behind the hunt for alternative fuels. I know this country can find a way if the political will (big business) is there to do it... I mean we are the United States, the greatest country in the world right, we can do anything?
So if 90%? of the world and 90%? of scientist still think that global warming is real so what, whats the harm? at least it may lead to a better world where your children my children everyones children could live in, in the end isn't that the most important thing.

eg8r
08-16-2007, 12:48 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Ed maybe your right and it is a hoax, <hr /></blockquote> The data is the data.

[ QUOTE ]
I dont think so too much evidence against it being wrong but... <hr /></blockquote> For every bit of evidence you guys produce there is another equally qualified scientist disproving you.

[ QUOTE ]
anyways is it not better for all of us, the world included if we stop burning fossil fuel and releasing so much carbon emissions. <hr /></blockquote> Who knows, but quit perpetuating the lie that it is causing global warming. This thread is about the myth of global warming, NOT, whether burning fossil fuel is bad for us.

[ QUOTE ]
Think about this no more relying on foreign oil no more high prices to warm and cool our homes. no more polluting our air and destroying wild live in the process.
<hr /></blockquote> Strawman. Again, this post is about global warming.

So as it goes, the rest of your post was based on the strawman argument.

eg8r

eg8r
08-16-2007, 12:50 PM
[ QUOTE ]
The only other thing I'll add is, it sure seems hotter than when I was a kid, and it seems to get hotter each successive year.

Peace. <hr /></blockquote> Isn't that what the doomsdayers were saying in the 70s during the earth ending freeze?

eg8r

eg8r
08-16-2007, 12:52 PM
This is coming from our resident global warming specialist who took a class on this one time while in college. Thanks for the update.

eg8r

wolfdancer
08-16-2007, 01:32 PM
Gayle, wouldn't this thread read better if it was titled
"Moron...the myth of global warming" ?
Then we would know in advance that it was the resident right wingnut's take on the subject

moblsv
08-17-2007, 07:44 AM
The nation’s top climate scientist is so frustrated over the nonsense racing about the blogsophere and mainstream media about the tiny flaw in NASA’s U.S. temperature database that he has already sent out two e-mails on the subject.

http://climateprogress.org/2007/08/16/must-read-from-hansen-stop-the-madness-about-the-tiny-revision-in-nasas-temperature-data/

wolfdancer
08-17-2007, 10:52 AM
I find this paragraph from that article....chilling (pardon the pun)....

"This deceit has a clear purpose: to confuse the public about the status of knowledge of global climate change, thus delaying effective action to mitigate climate change. The danger is that delay will cause tipping points to be passed, such that large climate impacts become inevitable, including the loss of all Arctic sea ice, destabilization of the West Antarctic ice sheet with disastrous sea level rise later this century, and extermination of a large fraction of animal and plant species….

Make no doubt, however, if tipping points are passed, if we, in effect, destroy Creation, passing on to our children, grandchildren, and the unborn a situation out of their control, the contrarians who work to deny and confuse will not be the principal culprits. The contrarians will be remembered as court jesters. There is no point to joust with court jesters. They will always be present. They will continue to entertain even if the Titanic begins to take on water. Their role and consequence is only as a diversion from what is important.

The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children. The court jesters are their jesters, occasionally paid for services, and more substantively supported by the captains’ disinformation campaigns."
xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

While the right consider themselves to be THE Christian party...they worship at the alter of big business...and the bottom line is that global warming, ecology, smoking regs, health care, guest workers, etc, etc...all affect BB's bottom line...if it ain't good for BB,then it's easier to deny it's existence

eg8r
08-17-2007, 10:56 AM
They were saying the same things during the freeze scare back a few decades ago. LOL, do you honestly think the top climate scientist is going to risk his grant money?

eg8r

wolfdancer
08-17-2007, 12:12 PM
Gayle, why expect the same people that aren't bothered that electing GWB because he promised to cut their taxes....has cost thousands of lives.....to be concerned about global warming...who's impact will probably not be felt in their lifetime...it's their kids, or grandkids will be the ones affected.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/89/Alfred.jpg
What, me worry?

moblsv
08-17-2007, 06:07 PM
How can certain people be so blinded by b.s. from their perceived authorities that they can continually post the same easily debunked rhetoric. Even after it has been to explained to them on multiple occasions they still insist on saying the same stupid things all over again as if it will mean something on the thirtieth try.

There is obviously no point in going over the 'cooling' and 'funding' story again. I think it is safe to assume that any reasonable person has already reconciled those false issues and has moved on to asking what we can/should do about the problem.

wolfdancer
08-20-2007, 12:23 PM
nAz, great piece on Global Warming, on "60 minutes" last nite.
It's hard to argue with what is happening, in such a relatively short time, from the O'Higgins Glacier to the poles, and the data derived from ice core samples.
I didn't realize how much of the earth's population depended on Glaciers for their water supply. Another study that I read recently....claims that certain "trigger points" may have already been reached.
This should never have been a political issue to begin with...but, like the issue of sacrificing young American lives in Iraq for oil and insider's profits... one party is so sure that God is on their side, and is working through GWB....therefore if George denies it's existence....
While not particularly religious myself....I remember Matthew 7:15..."Beware of false prophets..."
I see GWB as more of Satan's Spawn... but that's just my humble opinion

Gayle in MD
08-21-2007, 07:18 AM
Unfortunately, the originator of this thread continues to post information which he has gleaned from the fascist right wing Republican Corporate Oil interests, the same guys who have secret meetings with Cheney, and have been in bed with the Bush family for generations.

Until Bush is out, nothing that comes out regarding our circumstances with global warming will be propaganda free. Any good Republican right wing nut, will find it easy to spread the party propaganda, while completely ignoring the melting of the entire Polar Cap, the obvious climate changes which we see nightly on the news, and the documented testimony of Scientists from NASA, telling the story of how the fascists in the White House, and the Rep[ublican Party, consistantly distort the truth.

Karl Rove was on Meet The Press last sunday, still lying about things already proven, denying that he told anyone about Plame, followed by Matt Cooper, who stated, yet again, that Rove is lying. Rove denied what Novak has written about their conversation, also. Bush said he fire anyone involved, another lie. Lies, lies and more lies. Republicans go after the Clinton's, who have already been proven to be not guilty of anything they've done in business, but never notice that Bush and Cheney simply refused to answer any questions about their illegal activities, while the corporate right wing fascist press, continues to shield them from scrutiny, right wingers have mortgaged their children's future, and voted for the fascists.

John Dean gives complete, documented information on these crooks. I'm sure if he were lying, they'd sue. The sheer number of journalists who have documented the illegal activities of Bush, and Cheney, would atleast peak the interest of anyone who really gave a good **** about facts, but not this bunch. These free loaders who want to live in the best country in the world, but not have to pay enough taxes to properly run the country, maintain the infrastructure, protect the environment from pollution, and protect America's future, leaving the world cleaner and safer for their kids and grand kids, are the real enemy of the United States Of America.

Bush has set this country back twenty years on the environment, and leaves us with more debt than anyone imagined could accumulate. I believe he's the manchurian candidate, and who could have filled the bill any better than Prescott's grand son! I'm glad the SOB got Lyme disease chopping up his farm, which also causes mental confusion, just one more reason why he should be impeached.

Gayle in Md.
Penguines and Polar bears are dying, honey bees vanishing, frogs going extinct, while corporate fascists are busy chopping down the rain forest and pumping out the oil. Greedy and DUMB!

Gayle in MD
08-21-2007, 07:28 AM
They choose to be blind. They are what I call self-regulated, against knowledge and facts. When an administration has people locked up for wearing T-shirts that express their distaste for the fascist in the White House, how much more proof does one need?

Gayle in Md.

eg8r
08-21-2007, 09:32 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Karl Rove was on Meet The Press last sunday, still lying about things already proven, denying that he told anyone about Plame, followed by Matt Cooper, who stated, yet again, that Rove is lying. <hr /></blockquote> LOL, maybe if you say it 5000 times people will believe you. If it was proven he would be jail. You really don't have a grasp on reality at all do you?

eg8r

wolfdancer
08-21-2007, 01:08 PM
While I was watching 60 minutes on Sunday...a strong segment on Global Warming...Ed was watching BushTv (Fox)
http://www.newspeakdictionary.com/1984-movie-bb_a1.jpg
There's some great audio clips on this site

"Oceania is now at war with Eastasia"
"The reason for war"
"The Youth League sings a patriotic song." (Camp Jesus?"
I think George Orwell had a George Bush in mind when he wrote this.
Even Big Brother's speech patterns sound like GWB's
O web page (http://www.newspeakdictionary.com/go-movie.html)

wolfdancer
08-21-2007, 01:16 PM
Gayle, if you wonder as I do how people can dispute this issue, this might be an insight:


CLIMATE CLIQUES AND NAYSAYERS

"EISEROWITZ'S STUDY OF risk perception found that Americans fall into "interpretive communities"—cliques, if you will, sharing similar demographics, risk perceptions, and worldviews. On one end of this spectrum are the naysayers: those who perceive climate change as a very low or nonexistent danger. Leiserowitz found naysayers to be "predominantly white, male, Republican, politically conservative, holding pro-individualism, pro-hierarchism, and anti-egalitarian worldviews, anti-environmental attitudes, distrustful of most institutions, highly religious, and to rely on radio as their main source of news." This group presented five rationales for rejecting danger: belief that global warming is natural; belief that it's media/environmentalist hype; distrust of science; flat denial; and conspiracy theories, including the belief that researchers create data to ensure job security.

We might wonder how these naysayers, who represent only 7 percent of Americans yet control much of our government, got to be the way they are. A study of urban American adults by Nancy Wells and Kristi Lekies of Cornell University sheds some light on environmental attitudes. Wells and Lekies found that children who play unsupervised in the wild before the age of 11 develop strong environmental ethics. Children exposed only to structured hierarchical play in the wild—through, for example, Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts, or by hunting or fishing alongside supervising adults—do not. To interact humbly with nature we need to be free and undomesticated in it. Otherwise, we succumb to hubris in maturity. The fact that few children enjoy free rein outdoors anymore bodes poorly for our future decision-makers.

Another study, this one from the Earth Institute at Columbia University, found an ominous silence when it comes to educating American K-12 students on the relationship between our personal behavior and our environment: that the size and inefficiency of our cars, homes, and appliances, our profligate fuels, our love of disposables, and the effects of buying more than we need actually undermine our prospects on earth. Slightly more time is spent teaching kids how the environment can affect us, overpowering humanity with floods, droughts, storms, earthquakes, climate change. But in our overall failure to illuminate the interdependence between Homo sapiens and earth we withhold critical knowledge from those whose lives depend upon it most.

Many of today's kids recreate in the unwilderness of the shopping mall, where messages of prudence and wisdom are overwhelmed by the consumerism that feeds global warming. We send our kids to the mall because we fear the dangers outside. We could hardly be more wrong in our assessment of risk.

THE ALARMISTS AND THE ACROBAT

ON THE OTHER END of Leiserowitz's spectrum of perception regarding global warming is an interpretive community he calls the alarmists, generally comprised of individuals holding pro-egalitarian, anti-individualist, and antihierarchical worldviews, who are supportive of government policies to mitigate climate change, even so far as raising taxes. Members of this group are likely to have taken personal action to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. Collectively, alarmists compose 11 percent of Americans, with the remaining interpretive communities falling considerably closer to the alarmists than the naysayers in the spectrum—suggesting the gap might be cinched by sustained public education on the neighborhood dangers likely to arise in a changed global climate.

Hurricane Katrina provided a wake-up call for how bad it can get in the neighborhood, and may prove a tipping point itself. Yet long before its rampage, American kids were coloring pictures of the first icon of global environmentalism, the Amazon. Its billion-plus acres of rivers and rainforest—its trees collecting and containing excessive greenhouse gases from the atmosphere—were our primer for the revolutionary notion that the earth's neighborhoods are interdependent.

Today Amazonia is the most famous of Schellnhuber's tipping points. For a generation, kids have grown up learning that the Amazon is at risk from massive deforestation. But even if clearcutting were to halt, climate models forecast that a warming globe will convert the wet Amazonia forest into savanna within this century, and the loss of trees will render the region a net CO2 producer, further accelerating global warming.

Amazonia's tipping point might be fast approaching. The year 2005 saw the driest conditions in 40 years, with wildfires raging unabated, and 2006 is looking worse, raising alarms that environmental synergism is already in play as changes become self-sustaining and reinforce one another. Dan Nepstadt of the Woods Hole Research Center in Massachusetts questions whether the warming of the Atlantic (the tropical North Atlantic rose 1.7 degrees Fahrenheit above the 1901-1970 average in 2005) is affecting airflow over the Amazon, leading to drier and fierier conditions there.

Changes in the currents of the North Atlantic constitute another tipping point. As the Atlantic warms, ice caps melt, diluting the ocean and potentially shutting down its thermohaline circulation (THC), the oceanic river currently delivering the thermal equivalent of 500,000 power stations' worth of warmth to Europe. A 2005 study published in Nature found that after 50 years of monitoring, a critical component of the THC had suddenly slowed by 30 percent.

The fate of this circulation is closely linked to one of Schellnhuber's more notorious tipping points, the Greenland Ice Sheet. Encompassing 6 percent of the earth's freshwater supply, this ice, if melted, would raise sea levels by about 23 feet worldwide—not counting ice loss from the rest of the Arctic and the Antarctic. A study by NASA and the University of Kansas showed the decline of Greenland's ice unexpectedly doubled between 1996 and 2005, as glaciers surged into the sea with unpredicted speed. More worrying, the area of melt shifted 300 nautical miles north during the last four years of the study, indicating the warmth is spreading rapidly.

One tipping point affects the other in a balance as delicate as that of an acrobat's spinning plates. Greenland's increasing freshwater flow into the North Atlantic will certainly impact the THC. Warm water recirculating within the central Atlantic may further rearrange airflow over the Amazon, accelerating its dry-down and tree loss, and potentially freeing as much carbon dioxide from its enormous reservoir as the 20th century's total fossil fuel output. A sudden Amazonian release would surely melt whatever of Greenland hadn't already melted, crashing the THC and drastically cooling Europe—in the worst-case scenario, freezing it solid. Although we like to compartmentalize, nature does not. Biology and climatology are the indivisible warp and weft of earth's living fabric."
If you noticed....the profile of the deniers also matches the profile of serial killers......coincidence???
web page (http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2006/11/13th_tipping_point.html)

eg8r
08-21-2007, 01:32 PM
Nope, I was sitting at an airport wondering why they keep delaying the flight. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r

pooltchr
08-21-2007, 04:29 PM
I just fired up my propane powered gas grill, and grilled up some good old fashioned burgers, spreading noxious fumes in the smoke from my grill throughout the neighborhood. Then I opened the refrigerator door, which runs on electricity that, in my city, is either powered by a nuclear power plant, or one of several coal fired plants. I then used my electric can opener to open a can of Bush's baked beans (Is there any other brand??), popped them into the microwave and warmed 'em up with some good old fashioned radio waves. I expect that the beans will sooner or later cause some emissions that will contribute to the greenhouse effect. Guess I've done enough to contribute to global warming for one evening! /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Maybe I would have turned out different, if only I could have been raised in the jungle with Tarzan and Jane!
Such a shame we have to live in a time where electricity, automobiles, computers, televisions, plastic, and Wal-Mart have all conspired to bring the end of the world upon us. Maybe we should all just go back to the stone age.
Steve

wolfdancer
08-21-2007, 05:49 PM
Sacrifices will have to be made to reduce greenhouse emissions
you may have to give up your electric can opener.
While you are writing off global warming as a myth. What do you think about this??? 15 to 25 years from now !!....and that isn't of any concern????
web page (http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2006/aug/29/glaciers.climatechange)
and the well documented deteriorating conditions at the poles?
You may live to see a time where the uses of all your listed items are regulated.....but by then it will be too late... the trigger point conditions will have been met.
I hope that you at least make sure the refer light goes out, when you close the door.................

eg8r
08-21-2007, 06:41 PM
[ QUOTE ]
and the well documented deteriorating conditions at the poles?
<hr /></blockquote> LOL, how about that silver mine in Greenland that will be open for business again once all that worthless snow melts away.

[ QUOTE ]
the trigger point conditions will have been met. <hr /></blockquote> The new catch phrase for gullible left?

eg8r &lt;~~~content that I am not destroying our planet at the same rate as Al Gore

Gayle in MD
08-22-2007, 01:25 PM
All I can say is, sheep are dumb, and they stink! There are only two kinds of people, those who study, and those who don't bother. Only one fourth of the American population read a book during the last year. We know of atleast four people here weren't in that category! How could we expect any intelligent discussion on the subject of Global Warming from a bunch like this. I'd lay you odds that not one of them has read a book on this issue.

Sixty minutes was an eye opener last sunday. Even I didn't realize how compelling the evidence is.

Gayle in Md.

Gayle in Md.

SKennedy
08-22-2007, 03:40 PM
Your info comes from 60 minutes? Enough said!

SKennedy
08-22-2007, 04:30 PM
Hey! I just fired up my propane gas grill also. Not to cook anything, just to do it because I can. And also to honor Gayle. I even bought an extra tank so I can keep it going without having to stop and refuel.
And what size carbon footprint do you wear? ......Well, I drive a pick-up truck, my wife drives an SUV, my son drives an SUV, as well as my daughter......and, .....

SKennedy
08-22-2007, 04:39 PM
"Even I didn't realize"??????
Wow, I ask the population of plain folks out there, "If Gayle didn't know how can anyone else expect to know?" After all, she is much smarter and much more well-read than the rest of us, and she gets her information directly from 60 minutes.
Gayle, do you realize or even have a clue how condescending you sound?

Deeman3
08-22-2007, 04:54 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SKennedy:</font><hr> Gayle, do you realize or even have a clue how condescending you sound? <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue">Gayle has almost no carbon footprint, I am told, almost Amish in her spartan lifestyle, ala Al Gore.JK /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif </font color>

wolfdancer
08-22-2007, 05:07 PM
As the new self-proclaimed resident expert on global warming...it might boost your credibility a bit, if you could convince your wife first, of your "findings"..
The "60 minutes" show is but one of the many programs, articles, etc ...that show ominous changes on the earth.
While you brush that off by comparing the fears to y2k ( a pretty poor analogy, by the way )
They won't be laughing, as you say, some years from now...instead they will be wondering why people like you opposed any actions to combat this tragedy.
You might have a Doctorate in your field, ...but among your colleagues...you're in the minority...thankfully.
You won't win any converts here...those of us that believe, those of us free from any political party belief mandate...we'll stick with the comparative data...and visible signs like the ice shelf retreating, the sea temp rising, glaciers melting, grass growing at the south pole, Eskimos now using boats to cross areas where they once walked, the increases of greenhouse gases, etc.
You know...observable stuff....What will it take for you...NYC under 30 ft of water??? Cleveland as a coastal city?
You might be pleased to know that not only do you have cohorts here...but there is a whole website devoted to your cause...or is that non-cause?
Climate-Resistance org.
The name even sounds like they either have their heads buried in the sand, stuck up their *ss...or both...

wolfdancer
08-22-2007, 05:18 PM
It only reads that way when she is addressing someone below her class.....
she cited 60 minutes...you cite Y2K......and you criticize her?
Perhaps you might care to tell us, how the 60 minutes report was distorted, forged....or how all the now occurring phenomenon, can be so easily brushed aside by your expertise.
Are you being paid by any subversive group like the "Republicans for GWB" to infiltrate this and other community boards?...'fess up...

wolfdancer
08-22-2007, 05:24 PM
Spartan? Amish?
I hope you're never out on Chesapeake Bay in a small boat, when she has her yacht going full speed ahead....

pooltchr
08-22-2007, 06:19 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr>
she cited 60 minutes...you cite Y2K <hr /></blockquote>

Wolf,
I see a great similarity in the two. It's only that after the calendar changed that we learned that the big bad y2k scare was nothing but a lot of hype. The world didn't end...computer systems continued to work...power plants remained online...but an awful lot of money was spent marketing the big scare...businesses set up entire departments to figure out what to do....and after all was said and done...it wasn't a major disaster...it was a little hic-up. We have been taken down this path before. Why is it that the left isn't happy unless they can create a major crisis to deal with?
Steve

SKennedy
08-22-2007, 06:36 PM
FYI wolf dancer....I like wolves. Had a 1/2 breed once. Good dog. I do not have a Ph.D, nor am I an expert on global warming. I have only provided my opinion. That is all. You attack those with differing opinions than yours as if we are ignorant puppets of Bush, etc. I'm nobody's puppet, and I think my opinion is just as valid as yours, at least on this subject anyway.
Speaking of animals...have you ever seen a male grizzly bear eat a smaller male grizzly bear while the smaller bear was still alive through much of the meal? Nature, in its natural form can be brutal!
Tip for you too: Invest in the new golf course and exclusive country club now being built at the south pole!! I already have...

SKennedy
08-22-2007, 06:41 PM
As for my wife, we spend out time together doing other things. She's just not sure about the global warming issue. And contrary to how you think us conservatives behave, etc., my wife doesn't tell me how she votes and I don't control her.

SKennedy
08-22-2007, 06:45 PM
Yacht? On the Bay? Think she'll take me duck hunting? I love doing my part to clean the air by knocking down the carbon flying around in it.

wolfdancer
08-22-2007, 06:46 PM
#1.....I didn't realize that the Y2K scare was just a leftist thing....but in that scenario...we were warned of possible events to come.....( by all leftists? WOW, i didn't know that)
In the case of Global Warming....you can already see what has happened, and what is occurring at an alarming rate.
What I don't understand....is why this has become divided along party lines? Bush has about as much knowledge concerning climatology, as he has in planning a war, or stabilizing the economy...Zilch! a caricature of a President!
While it does seem that the left is more concerned about ecology,conservation, survival of many animal species, and survival of the planet...then the consumerism dominated, SUV driving right....since we both have to share the planet....I'd break away a bit from Camp Bush, and maybe do a little reading up on it.....
It's a tragedy that you and others believe this to be a political thing.......

wolfdancer
08-22-2007, 06:51 PM
of course you all do!!!

Sid_Vicious
08-22-2007, 08:39 PM
No helping the lost souls-to-realism Wolf. You wait, when the price to be paid for this AH's "decider's work" is paid, these dummys will find a Dem who ran the shgow afterwards to blame. Sh!ts aint it...sid

pooltchr
08-23-2007, 04:26 AM
Wolf, I don't think it is divided along political lines as much as it is the fact that, as a general rule, conservatives tend to view events like this in a different light. We aren't quite so quick to accept things at face value. We question things, look at the facts vs opinions or theories, and try to be realistic. It's just a different way of looking at things. We also tend (as a whole) to wear rose colored glasses a bit too much, while liberals tend to see the worst in things.
Al Gore's movie is a good example. I think the truth is somewhere in between. Temperatures may be rising a little bit, but there have also been downturns in global temperatures throughout history. I don't think the end of the world is coming, but I don't think we are doing everythig we can to preserve the earth either. I just don't see it as a major crisis. Now illegal immigration...that is a disaster that is already happening and getting worse. And the sad thing is that there is actually something we could do about it.
Steve

Gayle in MD
08-23-2007, 05:14 AM
I think the interesting part of this thread is that it is yet another example of how the right automatically buys right into the views of George Bush, and hence, Corporate Oil, regardless of the potential devastating consequences that their kids will suffer if this issue of Global Warming is not addressed, immediately, with our own government in the lead. Not anything new, just par for the course.

Valarie wasn't covert. Gonzales didn't commit purgery. Bush didn't lie us into this quagmire. Saddam had nukes. Libby was innocent. cheney was just having tea, in secret, with the Corporate Oil fascists. Rove wasn't directing the AG's to file charges against Democrats, with the help of gonzales, at Bush's direction. Bush hasn't politicised the Department of Justice. The surge is working. And if you don't support the President, and his fascist administration, that equals failing to support the troops.

Additionally, if you don't agree that Clinton's BJ was the most illegal, immoral event in national history, you love the terrorists.

Here we have yet another rightie, a self proclaimed expert, offering absolutely no evidence to support his illogical claims, who just happens to stand on the side of the Republican Fascist movement to dismantle our Constitution, destroy the laws of the land, deplete our rights to privacy, and freedom, defending the views of an administration which has used intimidation and propaganda to thwart scientific studies which we all pay for, to protect the industry which is gougeing the American Public, as they destroy our ecology, and we're supposed to just take his word on Global Warming, because he "Claims" to be an expert, and he says I'm condescending, lol.

Well, there was a time when I knew nothing on the subject, and I admitted that. Q, at the time, said he was disappointed in me, or maybe it was Fats, can't remember now, but at that time I decided to make an effort to educate myself on the subject, and unlike the Bushies, my approach was not through any political interests. As far as I'm concerned, those who deny Global Warming, should take a seat right beside those who believe that God is talking to Bush, that a man can live inside a whale, that Valarie wasn't covert, and that Cheney and Gonzales haven't broken any laws.

Atleast thirty percent in this country are nuts! We uneducated lefties all know who they are!

Gayle in Md....

Gayle in MD
08-23-2007, 05:26 AM
<font color="red">Some scientist.... /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif </font color>

pooltchr
08-23-2007, 05:44 AM
Further proof that the sky is falling....

OSLO (AFP) - A grown moose belches out methane gas equivalent to 2,100 kilograms (4,630 pounds) of carbon dioxide a year, contributing to global warming, Norwegian researchers said Wednesday.


That is more than twice the amount of CO2 emitted on a round-trip flight across the Atlantic Ocean from Oslo to the Chilean capital Santiago, according to Scandinavian Airlines.

"An adult moose emits about 100 kilograms of methane gas a year. But methane gas is much stronger than carbon dioxide, so to get the equivalent you have to multiply by 21," professor Odd Harstad at the Norwegian University of Life Sciences told AFP.

With an estimated 140,000 moose roaming Norway's forests, that is a total of of 294,000,000 kilograms of CO2 per year.

But Harstad said that was no reason to begin killing off the entire moose population.

"Moose have very important functions in nature. They are ruminants that eat the grass. If we don't have ruminants, we have too much grass and that changes the landscape and has consequences for the flora and fauna," he said.

Harstad said the figure of 100 kilograms of methane gas was a rough estimate based on earlier calculations for beef cows in Norway.

As is the case with cows and other ruminants, methane is produced from the microbes in the moose's stomach which help break down the roughage they eat.

Because methane gas is stronger than carbon dioxide, it is considered even more harmful to the environment. Both methane and carbon dioxide are so-called greenhouses gases, one of the main causes of global warming.


Good thing they don't eat baked beans!!! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Steve

eg8r
08-23-2007, 06:46 AM
[ QUOTE ]
It only reads that way when she is addressing someone below her class.....
she cited 60 minutes...you cite Y2K......and you criticize her? <hr /></blockquote> You really are too ignorant to notice the similarities about the scare of Y2K and the scare of Global Warming.

eg8r

Deeman3
08-23-2007, 07:29 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> Spartan? Amish?
I hope you're never out on Chesapeake Bay in a small boat, when she has her yacht going full speed ahead....
<hr /></blockquote>
<font color="blue">Just my point. Now Wolfdancer, earlier you got onto someone about not convincing their wife about global warming. That was a low blow. Having to convince your wife about anything is a non starter for most of us. /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Now I conceded that I now have come around to the fact the global warming is a fact. I am now trying to determine if moose, cows and people are just small contributors but, as only 70% of us righties read, verses 78% of Liberals, I am still trying to find out if they included the NYT and Paris's, "Your Hot!" as books.

What even the scientists who say it is mostly man made, and by the way, we need more study funding for them of course, is that China and India will offset many times all the potential savings we make in the next ten years.

This should not be a partisan issue but as long as we keep shouting at each other, it will be. There has to be sensible discussion but that is not possible outside an adult attitude that says, "Let's deal with global warming, by the way, it's GWB's fault, Cheney is an animal."

There are, of course, some of us who have a vested interest in seeing oil cost a lot. I admit that. That's why I like Gayle's big boats so much. However, there could be commonality in that for both of us. $10 a gallon would certainly make some of us happy and curb usage at the same time. However, as long as the left, with smiling approval of the right, keeps pushing dead end alternatives, like corn based Ethenol and ignoring viable alternatives, we are not going to have more than a volume of yelling contest. If truth is so important, why keep proping up these farm subsidy items? Moose farts aside, what is a plan that, unlike Keyoto, would at least address emerging economies and thoughtful discussions. Screaming about Karl Rove's achievments won't get everyone at the same table. </font color>

SKennedy
08-23-2007, 08:14 AM
Ok Gayle and Wolf.... One more time.....I never claimed to be an expert on global warming. I am also not a Bushie. I never said there was no such thing as global warming. I'm just not as sure as you are that man is the culprit.
And, I'm more of an Independent. I particularly like the way you have categorized all my views and politics for everyone on this site just from my "opinion" on one single subject. Guess that's your "applied logic" in action?
And for your information, I helped defend this country and its constitution, and not by just running my mouth. I also have 2 children and I do care how we leave this world to them. I do care about our environment and I am involved in performing assesment activities on air, soil, surface water and groundwater on an on-going basis and design methods to perform remediation. So, when it comes to my beliefs, opinions, and pursuasions please allow me to speak for myself.

Gayle in MD
08-23-2007, 10:11 AM
Ok Gayle and Wolf.... One more time.....I never claimed to be an expert on global warming. I am also not a Bushie. I never said there was no such thing as global warming. <font color="red">Who was it then, who made the remark that the phenomena would be laughable, and since you're admittedly not an expert, but claim to be a Scientist, how come you originally portrayed yourself as an expert, touting your somewhat questionable credentials, and throwing out condescending insults. If you're not a Bushie, you sure come off as one. Can't fool us, we've go experience with Bushies! /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif</font color> I'm just not as sure as you are that man is the culprit. Oh, Ok, who is, then? I haven't seen ay cows drilling for oil, lately. <font color="red"> And Bush isn't responsible for a quagmire in Iraq, either. </font color>
And, I'm more of an Independent. <font color="red">More of an Independent? What does that mean? </font color> I particularly like the way you have categorized all my views and politics for everyone on this site just from my "opinion" on one single subject. Guess that's your "applied logic" in action? <font color="red">Comparisons to the 2000 contemplated computer problem, is a logical comparison? Calling the views of thousands of Scientists, who are experts on Global Warming, laughable, is applied logic? Calling their views, laughable, when you admit you're no expert, is applied logic? Some Scientist. </font color>
And for your information, I helped defend this country and its constitution, and not by just running my mouth. <font color="red">Be specific, please. </font color> <font color="red">What are you doing to defend it now? I respect Veterans, just not Veterans who do not speak out on behalf of what our Veterans are dealing with in today's world, and how our troops are being treated by this president, now. Serving one's country, does not end ones responsibility for the rest of ones life. It is an on-going responsibility, which all Americans should be involved in, throughtout, and failing to do so, in the face of such unprecedented abuse of Military Standards of Operations, which are also greatly abusive of American troops, should anger every American, including those who are Veterans. What are you doing about that? </font color> I also have 2 children and I do care how we leave this world to them. <font color="red">Then why shoot down the opinions of such a vast array of respected Scientists, from all over the world, and call the subject as a joke? </font color> I do care about our environment and I am involved in performing assesment activities on air, soil, surface water and groundwater on an on-going basis and design methods to perform remediation. So, when it comes to my beliefs, opinions, and pursuasions please allow me to speak for myself.

<font color="red">Go right ahead, just don't announce yourself as some Scientific expert on a subject which you finally admit you know little about, and turn it into a joke. I hardly think experience on how to install a septic system, or engineer duct work, qualifies one as a Scientist, /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif JK /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif</font color>

eg8r
08-23-2007, 10:29 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle:</font><hr> I respect Veterans, just not Veterans who do not speak out on behalf of what our Veterans are dealing with in today's world <hr /></blockquote><blockquote><font class="small">Quote Clarification without all the Gayle BS:</font><hr> I respect Veterans, just not Veterans who disagree with me <hr /></blockquote> eg8r

SKennedy
08-23-2007, 10:38 AM
I said I was a scientist. I never said I was an expert on global warming and never claimed my view was the absolute! What part of that do you not understand. Being a scientist does not make you an expert in all fields of science!! I never claimed to know it all, and I don't even make that claim in the areas I work. And for the record, I don't know anything about duct work or septic systems. Where in the heck did that come from?
I only gave my opinion about the cause of global warming. And in this particular case, I believe my opinion is just as valid as yours. I only stated my profession to qualify the concept that my opinion was likely as valid as your opinion. However, I am enough of a scientist to know the difference between carbon dioxide and carbon.

SKennedy
08-23-2007, 10:42 AM
I am a veteran. Navy Corpsman for 3 years. Senior Corpsman on an amputee floor. Philadelphia Naval Hospital. Early 70's.

eg8r
08-23-2007, 10:48 AM
Actually serving in the military does not earn any respect with Gayle. You must also agree with her 100% on all issues discussed here on the board.

eg8r

Gayle in MD
08-23-2007, 11:28 AM
<font color="red">LOL, touche' The remark about septics, was a joke. You have every right to your opinion. However, if you had seen the sixty minutes program, I think you'd agree that this issue of Global Warming, isn't a laughable one, at all. You're quite correct, I should have said, carbon Dioxide. Senior moment.

Gayle in Md. </font color>

Drop1
08-23-2007, 11:46 AM
Well,I think everyone has made their points,on global warming,and no one is right. However,there is the remote possibility,the cause is Christian flatulence. Now if you want to get into a really interesting subject,we should examine eg8r's political ambitions,or we could discuss fish oil carbon molecule chains,or why ethanol is not a fuel alternative due to the by product vinasse.

wolfdancer
08-23-2007, 12:00 PM
Well, a certain unnamed poster here, Ed...has moved all the discussions from friendly, slightly combative...to a diatribe...if my post was in that vein...i apologize
The pattern is that if you believe that some kind of climate anomaly is already taking place...you belong to some loony fringe leftist group...mention ecology..and you are a tree hugger. The other side doesn't offer any proof,just insults.. and leaves no room for debate.
so when you come aboard here...with another expert opinion on the subject...it's like another insulting attack.
I wouldn't know a climatologist from a climaxtoligist, even if I ran over one with my SUV...however, from the many photos, videos, tv programs, articles, etc on the subject...it's clear (to me) that something is occurring that merits our attention...

Gayle in MD
08-23-2007, 12:05 PM
You have my deepest respect, and appreciation for your service to our country. What is your opinion of the treatment our Veterans are getting at the present, and the re-deployments of the same people, over and over, to fight in a civil war, against the Military rules of combat, and operations manual?

Gayle in Md.

Gayle in MD
08-23-2007, 12:08 PM
[ QUOTE ]
However,there is the remote possibility,the cause is Christian flatulence <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="red">Bwa ha ha ha, hilarious! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif </font color>

wolfdancer
08-23-2007, 12:20 PM
drop, I am accumulating shares in a company that will solve both the oil dependency problems, and the flatulent cows, moose...
SYNM has linked up with Tyson foods to eventually make fuel from animal fat.
So, we'll take the worst gas producers, grind em up, render em, and put the byproduct in our fuel tank....problem solved!!!!

Gayle in MD
08-23-2007, 01:03 PM
[ QUOTE ]
....What will it take for you...NYC under 30 ft of water??? Cleveland as a coastal city?
<hr /></blockquote>

Hey Jack,
This sentence of yours reminds me of a sentence in Richard Clarke's book, Against All Enemies, when he tells the story about O'Neil, frustrated about how the Bush Administration kept blowing off their warnings about alQaeda, and the coming attack, O Neil said to him...
"What's it going to take, an attack at the Pentagon?"

Sadly, that's just what it took.

Don't miss Christiane Amanpor's three part special, and you can catch the last segment, tonight, after Larry King. She's already covered the Muslims, tonight, she's covering Christians.

Gayle in Md.

SKennedy
08-23-2007, 01:44 PM
Really know what I think? I like this whole group so far, whether we agree on all issues or not doesn't matter. No wonder you guys are all decent pool players. Smart (you too Wolf and Gayle), independent, and competitive. And, I bet when I show up with my $20 dollar bills and good shoes to play Gayle, there is a better than good chance I'll get beat! The fact that we argue about these things at least shows we all care, just different ways and means.

wolfdancer
08-23-2007, 01:48 PM
I sometimes wonder...how GWB can sleep at night...
however I also wonder how anybody that voted for him, can sleep at night.....
Now if your vote was magically changed electronically by Diebold...would the Creator hold you accountable still...for electing Bush?

SKennedy
08-23-2007, 01:52 PM
First part of your question was fine, but the latter portions were sort of biased.
I have mixed feelings. However, as a soldier you follow orders. In a perfect world you would never have to fight or go overseas and your services would never be required. In a near perfect world, you go fight and cycle back and forth in a reasonable manner. We live in neither...so you just have to do what you are told (as a soldier). Other than avoid war, you could implement the draft to help. I'm not an advocate of a draft. The main thing is that our government takes care of our veterans who need help when they return, and not ignore them or push them aside. Some come back with medical conditions, etc. Also, that we, as civilians, treat them with respect, unlike the way many of our Vietnam veterans were treated when thay got back home.

eg8r
08-23-2007, 01:56 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Well, a certain unnamed poster here, Ed...has moved all the discussions from friendly, slightly combative...to a diatribe... <hr /></blockquote> Hey you are a big boy, take a little responsibility for your own posting habits. Weren't you the one that wanted a little civility around here? Practice what you preach.

[ QUOTE ]
however, from the many photos, videos, tv programs, articles, etc on the subject...it's clear (to me) that something is occurring that merits our attention... <hr /></blockquote> The issue really has nothing to do with whether something is happening, the issue is whether or not what is happening is the cause of human intervention. That is the BS part of it all. You on the left keep thinking it is human caused because you all want to jump on a doom and gloom bandwagon ESPECIALLY if this bandwagon is in direct contrast to the the current administration. It is all politics with you guys.

eg8r

eg8r
08-23-2007, 02:01 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Well,I think everyone has made their points,on global warming,and no one is right. <hr /></blockquote> /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

As far as my political ambitions...I have none. While the paycheck is better than my current pay, when you weigh in all the intangibles it just does not look all that great.

eg8r

cushioncrawler
08-23-2007, 04:38 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> Spartan? Amish? I hope you're never out on Chesapeake Bay in a small boat, when she has her yacht going full speed ahead.... <hr /></blockquote>Hey woofly -- Woznt that a scene in "Water World"?? Me, myself, my billiard room will be 410m above todayz sea level. madMac.

pooltchr
08-23-2007, 06:17 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SKennedy:</font><hr> Really know what I think? I like this whole group so far, whether we agree on all issues or not doesn't matter. No wonder you guys are all decent pool players. Smart (you too Wolf and Gayle), independent, and competitive. And, I bet when I show up with my $20 dollar bills and good shoes to play Gayle, there is a better than good chance I'll get beat! The fact that we argue about these things at least shows we all care, just different ways and means. <hr /></blockquote>

My feelings are hurt! As many times as Gayle and I have gone round and round on politics, she never offered to play me for $20 a game! And I would be willing to let her pick the game! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Steve

wolfdancer
08-23-2007, 10:25 PM
"Water World"...good one, Mac....

DickLeonard
08-24-2007, 06:12 AM
Eg8r I would support you for president if thats what it would take to get you off this board.LOL ####

Gayle in MD
08-24-2007, 09:57 AM
LOL, why would you put another man in the White House who lives in a state of denial? /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

One was already one too many! /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Besides, you and I still have time to put together a good campaign strategy, /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Gayle in Md.

Gayle in MD
08-24-2007, 10:01 AM
You should give me credit for some intelligence. Even I am not dumb enough to make that offer to a pool instructor! /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Gayle in Md.

wolfdancer
08-24-2007, 10:44 AM
I think it will take an exorcism.....
I copied this from the internet...doesn't quite fit what I'd like to say but I see a lot of truth in it
"A passerby stopped at their place once, and they welcomed him in:

He asked them: What is the problem?

They replied: What problem? There is no problem.

He said: don’t you see your faces, what do you worship?

They replied: One God.

Why are you together? He asked,

Because we are fellow brothers, they answered.

No, he said, because your faces speak for you, and your hearts are not pure.

They said in one voice: how could you tell?

Evidently, they had thought that each one of them was hiding his feelings from the other.

So, the passerby said: how could you be worshiping The One, yet allowing guile and discontent to rule what you carry inside towards each other, and however still, you continue talking to each other, yet not opening up to one another?!

The three worshippers grew mystified by this man who is a mere passerby."

SKennedy
08-24-2007, 12:27 PM
Now Gayle....How do you know I'm not an instructor? Actually, I have given some instruction on the pool table, but only to those who were really bad. My instructions were of this type, "Here, aim for my finger." Of course, I charge nothing for my services, and that's exactly what they're worth! For a more advanced player my instruction is "Use lots and lots of english whether you need to or not!"
Sunday in league play, if I play a higher level player I'm going to pop off and tell him/her to aim for my finger. Hope they have a sense of humor....
Actually, I think I'll just try that with one of my teammates during warm-ups. I think they're all smaller than me.

eg8r
08-24-2007, 01:02 PM
LOL, you support is worth about as much as your opinion. I think I will stick around.

eg8r