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geno368
08-15-2007, 03:15 PM
<font color="blue"> </font color> I am an APA 5 in 8-ball and a 6 in 9...I have been rehabbing rotator cuff surgery for 5 weeks and back to daily practice now. I practice daily on my long stroke shot and here is my question: I have a line drawn on my 9' table from center of corner to center of opposite corner. The ob in in center of table and the cb is on the straight line on the 1st diamond. I use a stop shot center ball. The result is: ob is holed fine, my cue tip is i inch left of line on followthrough and the cb is about 2 inches right of line with no spin..If I had to list my most misses, I have a tendancy to impart right english and miss to the left..I understand the miss, but don't understand the previous..I know I don't have complete control of my arm and shoulder yet, but don't want to groove a bad habit. Can any experienced in this forum help? Thanks

DeadCrab
08-15-2007, 04:00 PM
You didn't say whether it was your back-hand shoulder or your bridge hand shoulder. You also didn't state the nature of your surgery (acromioplasty/decompression vs. full thickness cuff repair).

My advice is simple: Take a cue with you next time you go to physical therapy and show the therapist your stroke. Listen to what they say regarding whether playing pool at this time is advisable. It is an individual question that requires an individual answer.

cushioncrawler
08-15-2007, 04:06 PM
Some questions.......
Are u a righty or a lefty??
Are u left eye dominant or right eye or ??
Duz yor cue have a conical taper or ??
Iz yor cue a stiffy or iz it low-squirt??
Do u uze a looped bridge or a Vee or ??
Iz the 1" and 2" stuff new, ie woz it 0" and 0" before surgery?? madMac.

Bob_Jewett
08-15-2007, 07:10 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote geno368:</font><hr> ... Can any experienced in this forum help? Thanks <hr /></blockquote>
Try using a stripe as your cue ball. Place it so the stripe is vertical like a tire. If the stripe wobbles as it goes away from you, it gives immediate feedback that you are putting side on the ball.

Chopstick
08-16-2007, 09:27 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote geno368:</font><hr> <font color="blue"> </font color> The result is: ob is holed fine, my cue tip is i inch left of line on followthrough and the cb is about 2 inches right of line with no spin.<hr /></blockquote>

Assuming you are right handed, you are cocking your wrist on the follow through. Look at your wrist and the back of your hand at setup, freeze on the follow through and look at it again. The angle changed. The wrist is cocked away from your body. That is what is throwing your tip left of the line.

The problem with this is you never know where in your stroke the wrist motion occurred. The tip doesn't go straight through the ball. It comes into the cue ball with a right to left motion relative to the shot line.

geno368
08-16-2007, 02:38 PM
Thanks for your reply..I am right handed and it is my grip hand..It was a torn rotator cuff which they fixed arthroscopicly. The stroke motion is ok with therapist.

geno368
08-16-2007, 02:41 PM
Thanks for your reply..I am right handed and eye dominant..I normally use an open bridge(hand arthritus) nickel shaped tip with 314-2 Predator shaft.,.before surgery the results were about the same except not as much distance...

geno368
08-16-2007, 02:46 PM
Thanks for the reply...You make a lot of sense, and as a matter of fact, I went to the table and you are correct..I still don't understand how the ball still goes..also how does the cue ball go to the right when I impart left english on the CB???

Fran Crimi
08-16-2007, 03:00 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote geno368:</font><hr> <font color="blue"> I am an APA 5 in 8-ball and a 6 in 9...I have been rehabbing rotator cuff surgery for 5 weeks and back to daily practice now. I practice daily on my long stroke shot and here is my question: I have a line drawn on my 9' table from center of corner to center of opposite corner. The ob in in center of table and the cb is on the straight line on the 1st diamond. I use a stop shot center ball. The result is: ob is holed fine, my cue tip is i inch left of line on followthrough and the cb is about 2 inches right of line with no spin. </font color>

Okay, let's address this one first. What you're saying here makes perfect sense for a right-handed player with a severely dominant right eye. I see it all the time where these players tend to cue the cue ball slightly on the left side, thinking they are seeing dead center. It's a visual thing caused by positioning the cue stick way under the far edge of your right eye. It happens to me, too. The exercise you're doing is great to help you find the center of the cue ball. Start by cueing the ball slightly right of center. If it stops dead, then that is most likely the center. You can either try to bring the cue stick more under the inside of your right eye rather than the outside, or you can leave it where it is and train yourself that center is slightly right of where you perceive it to be.


<font color="blue"> If I had to list my most misses, I have a tendancy to impart right english and miss to the left..I understand the miss, but don't understand the previous..I know I don't have complete control of my arm and shoulder yet, but don't want to groove a bad habit. Can any experienced in this forum help? Thanks <hr /></blockquote> </font color>

In your second example where you say you tend to put right english on some shots, I don't think it's a matter of where you are cueing the ball at your approach. I think you may be steering certain shots. Ask yourself the following questions: Is this happening on certain types of shots with certain angles? Also, when that type of miss occurs, set the shot up again, this time, freeze your position after you hit the ball and take a look at your back hand on the cue. Are your knuckles facing the floor? If so, then you twisted the cue stick, probably as a result of trying to steer the object ball into the pocket. Don't try to steer your shots. Just pick your aiming point and trust your stroke.


Just guessing in the blind here.

Fran

Jal
08-16-2007, 05:57 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote geno368:</font><hr>...I still don't understand how the ball still goes..also how does the cue ball go to the right when I impart left english on the CB??? <hr /></blockquote>Suppose you're lined up for perfect centerball but your grip hand veers to the right while stroking. Most of the cue's mass will then be moving to the right as well, even though the tip is pivoting to the left. Thus, the cueball will be propelled to the right. The tip, which is migrating to the left, will impart left-english.

There's a difference between being lined up slightly to the right and stroking slightly to the right.

Jim

geno368
08-17-2007, 09:06 AM
thanks very much for your reply

SpiderMan
08-17-2007, 09:24 AM
Set up a video camera, being very careful to get the optical centerline of the lens pointing directly down the line of the shot. Leave it running for long enough that you lose the tendency to "perform" for the camera, ie you must be comfortable and learn to ignore the camera.

Repeat this two times - once with the camera in front of you, and once behind. Be sure that on the the "behind" shot, the camera is positioned low enough to catch a good view of your hand. I'm often surprised what I see has crept into my techniques when I videotape myself - turning my wrist, short-stroking, and, as someone has already mentioned, "stick-steering". For me, that's sometimes caused by laziness - I really need to shift my feet just a little, but instead I lean a little out of stance. Then my stroke isn't quite right and I move the stick post-contact as if to "steer" the cueball back on-line /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

BTW, centering the camera on the shot line is critical for getting a usable video! If it is above the table height(which it must be in order to see the table), and not on the shot line, the camera's perspective can make it appear there is a "swoop" in your stroke even if there is none.

SpiderMan

dr_dave
08-17-2007, 09:45 AM
If you want some general advice and a checklist for good stroke mechanics, see the stroke "best practices" document (http://billiards.colostate.edu/resources/stroke_best_practices.pdf).

Regards,
Dave

JohnnyP
08-18-2007, 12:58 AM
Fran: My grandson videoed me playing on a coin op in a bowling alley. I made a DVD from one of them in slo mo, then took this clip off the TV:

http://www.jandssafeguard.com/Pool/JohnnyP'sStroke/JohnnyP'sStrokeSlowMotion.mov

The actual stroke occurs at about 80% of the clip.

First time I'd seen myself play. The stroke looks pretty good. My wrist breaks shortly after the beginning of the forward stroke, as the forearm pulls it forward.

There's a decent follow through, but if you look closely, my tip veers slightly to the left after contact. Looks like I pull my hand towards my body at the end of the follow through.

Drag the little progress icon back and forth to see the action.

Fran Crimi
08-18-2007, 07:49 AM
Yup. I see what's going on. Not bad and very fixable.

You're arm is moving nice and straight until your back hand starts manipulating things too much. There are occasional shots where manipulating the stroke with your back hand is necessary, but in most shots, it's just a potential for danger, as you can see in the shot in your video.

I have a saying that I tell my students: Shoot pool with your arm, not your hand. As soon as you start grabbing or wrist-flicking, all bets are off as to whether the cue is going to go straight or not.

Try imagining that your back hand is no more than a claw that prevents the cue from falling. That's it. Nothing more. It will take some getting used to.

Now, that may not be the sole culprit that causes you to swing your arm in towards your body the last minute, but the hand manipulation should be the first thing you correct. It's a process of eilimination.

I'm also seeing a slight upward movement of your upper arm at the end of your backstroke. I think you have to do that in order to accommodate that release thing you're doing with your hand at the end of your backstroke. That release is giving you another couple of inches of backstroke and if you didn't lift your arm up, your cue tip would slip right through the fingers of your bridge hand. That little maneuver is not going to help your stroke on the way forward.

So, fix the hand manipulation thing first and other things may fall into place. And most importantly, stay positive and stay determined. It's all very doable.

Good luck,
Fran


quote=JohnnyP] Fran: My grandson videoed me playing on a coin op in a bowling alley. I made a DVD from one of them in slo mo, then took this clip off the TV:

http://www.jandssafeguard.com/Pool/JohnnyP'sStroke/JohnnyP'sStrokeSlowMotion.mov

The actual stroke occurs at about 80% of the clip.

First time I'd seen myself play. The stroke looks pretty good. My wrist breaks shortly after the beginning of the forward stroke, as the forearm pulls it forward.

There's a decent follow through, but if you look closely, my tip veers slightly to the left after contact. Looks like I pull my hand towards my body at the end of the follow through.

Drag the little progress icon back and forth to see the action. <hr /></blockquote>

JohnnyP
08-20-2007, 01:45 AM
Fran: I wondered why my tip sometimes slips out of my bridge on the backstroke. Thanks for pointing that out.

You can see it on my foreheadcam video.

geno368
08-20-2007, 09:38 AM
I couldn't open the .mov clip...

Fran Crimi
08-20-2007, 10:05 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote geno368:</font><hr> I couldn't open the .mov clip... <hr /></blockquote>


I couldn't open it either with IE. I had to switch over to Firefox and then it opened. It opened with Quick Time. I don't know if it was the viewer or the browser that was the issue.