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View Full Version : Re: Simonis 760 vs. 860?



Santeh
08-19-2007, 06:23 PM
Hello all,

I have decided to refelt the table, and do so with Simonis cloth. However I am unsure about the type (760 vs. 860; please see: http://www.simoniscloth.com/weave.htm). To date I have mainly played 8-ball, but I would like to get into 9-ball. May I ask which cloth type, 760 or 860, people might recommend (even though I know preferences vary)? I have heard that the 760, being a "faster" cloth type, will help one develop their stoke and speed control, which I thought might be an additional advantage.

For what it is worth, my wife and I were thinking of the dark green color as it
might look nice with the darker wood grain of the table. Also, I live in a rather humid environment, with the table currently in a garage. As such I "hear" the 760 might be a better choice for an environment like this.

Thank you!

mantis
08-19-2007, 08:52 PM
Almost all 9 ball tournaments are played with Simonis 860. I would not really consider 760 on any table smaller than 9'. I think 860 is plenty fast. It is much faster than the stock cloth that comes with most tables. A lot of pool halls use this because it is such a standard at tournaments. You may want to go play on it and see how fast it is. You likely will not feel the need for a faster cloth. It also allows your spin to grab very well as compared to stock cloth.

mantis
08-19-2007, 08:55 PM
One other point. I would definately put a dehumidifier in your garage. High humidity will affect the way any cloth plays, and more importantly, it will damage the natural wood of your table over time. A dehumidifier should be a necessity in that sort of arrangement. you will be surprised how much water it pulls out of the air if you do not already have one!

bradb
08-25-2007, 03:37 PM
I have 760 on my new 9' table. its very fast! faster than any other cloth you may have played. Its very good for billiards because of the distance needed but for 8 ball, 9 ball the 860 will be more like you are used to.
If you like fast play where you don't like to strike the ball hard to get down table then you will like 760. But for close play where you have slight off angle it will require a soft touch and a lot of stun. Iv'e found it has improved my game in QB control, but in hind sight I think I would prefer the 860 as I find it a challenge to go back and forth from pool hall tables. Brad

Santeh
08-25-2007, 07:39 PM
Hello all!

Thank you all for your thoughts! I appreciate them very much.

In the end I have decided to go with Simonis 860HR (Humidity Resistant due to the darn Florida heat in my garage) cloth in dark green (matches the darker wood grain on the sides of the rails). Even though the 860 might be a bit slower than the 760, I would like to get into 9-ball even though at the moment I play 8-ball and straight pool.

Also, along with the cloth I have also chosen to get a new set of Brunswick Centennial balls. Hopefully between the 860HR and the Centennials I will have a nice table to play on (it is an 8'X4' Valley (Brunswick) Cougar with a one piece, 1" slate).

Hooray!!! /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

mantis
08-25-2007, 08:01 PM
Should turn out great. It is tough to go wrong with that set up

bradb
08-26-2007, 12:07 PM
The Arimith Premium is the best, if you can afford, it get the Arimith Pro, thats the best ball you can put on your table.

Santeh
08-26-2007, 03:28 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bradb:</font><hr> The Arimith Premium is the best, if you can afford, it get the Arimith Pro, thats the best ball you can put on your table. <hr /></blockquote>

Hello!

Thanks for the view. And, quite, it has taken a lot of discussion and reading to come to the idea that the Super Aramith Pro and Centennial balls are the same in that it is my understanding they are both made by Saluc. As such the choice of whether or not to purchase Super Aramith Pro or Centennials seems to come down to personal preference on the ball design and what the look of the ball affords to the shot, rather than the make and feel of the ball. For myself I like the look of the Centennials the most, which is why I went with them. Yet I must admit that it was a long, tough (but "enjoyable") decision. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Always...

Deeman3
08-27-2007, 07:43 AM
Beware if you go with too fast a cloth. While it may incrase your sence of speed, it will require a VERY level table and if it is not, then the conditions become unfair even for the best of players. I play in a club on occasion that has one table with cloth too fast for the conditions and, while it may make you feel good to play on it for ball movement that unfair curl at the end of a ball roll is heartbreaking if you did everything else right.

Santeh
08-28-2007, 04:13 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman3:</font><hr> Beware if you go with too fast a cloth. While it may incrase your sence of speed, it will require a VERY level table and if it is not, then the conditions become unfair even for the best of players. I play in a club on occasion that has one table with cloth too fast for the conditions and, while it may make you feel good to play on it for ball movement that unfair curl at the end of a ball roll is heartbreaking if you did everything else right. <hr /></blockquote>

Wow! Isn't this the truth! My table currently has a cloth that, while old, seems to be a thin material and is perhaps 760. I noticed that even after leveling out the table, sometimes at the very end of the roll the OB(s) will sometimes have a short, unexpected extra curl to the side. I must say this was quite frustrating as it made me try again and again to make sure that the table was as perfectly level as I could get it!

Always...

bradb
08-28-2007, 10:08 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Santeh:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman3:</font><hr> Beware if you go with too fast a cloth. While it may incrase your sence of speed, it will require a VERY level table and if it is not, then the conditions become unfair even for the best of players. I play in a club on occasion that has one table with cloth too fast for the conditions and, while it may make you feel good to play on it for ball movement that unfair curl at the end of a ball roll is heartbreaking if you did everything else right. <hr /></blockquote>

Wow! Isn't this the truth! My table currently has a cloth that, while old, seems to be a thin material and is perhaps 760. I noticed that even after leveling out the table, sometimes at the very end of the roll the OB(s) will sometimes have a short, unexpected extra curl to the side. I must say this was quite frustrating as it made me try again and again to make sure that the table was as perfectly level as I could get it!

Always... <hr /></blockquote>

This is true if the table is off level as noted. My 760 runs very true, the only problem I face is if I don't keep it clean. Since the weave is so fine, chalk buildup can effect the roll of the ball. In fact I don't even have a spot marker on my cloth, it sits up and can throw the ball off.

I suspect the worn table mentioned is probably 860 or similar cloth which when badly worn is like playing on hardwood, very frustrating.

As an aside to the use of Brunswick or Arimith Super Pro, there is a lot of debate on that, around here some players actually bring their own Arimith Pro balls with them, they won't play with anything else. I imagine though that is more personnal preference than actual quailty.

The Arimith web site touts the super pro as the choice of tournament balls world wide though.

-Brad

Deeman3
08-28-2007, 12:53 PM
What if their opponent refuses to play with the balls brought in?

bsmutz
08-28-2007, 12:59 PM
String 'em up by their balls! /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

bradb
08-28-2007, 06:37 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bsmutz:</font><hr> String 'em up by their balls! /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif <hr /></blockquote>

That'll do it! /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

SPetty
08-29-2007, 11:12 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Santeh:</font><hr>I noticed that even after leveling out the table, sometimes at the very end of the roll the OB(s) will sometimes have a short, unexpected extra curl to the side. I must say this was quite frustrating as it made me try again and again to make sure that the table was as perfectly level as I could get it!<hr /></blockquote>Surprisingly enough, those end of roll movements are often caused by irregular balls rather than an irregular table. Just something to consider.

bradb
08-29-2007, 12:59 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SPetty:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Santeh:</font><hr>I noticed that even after leveling out the table, sometimes at the very end of the roll the OB(s) will sometimes have a short, unexpected extra curl to the side. I must say this was quite frustrating as it made me try again and again to make sure that the table was as perfectly level as I could get it!<hr /></blockquote>Surprisingly enough, those end of roll movements are often caused by irregular balls rather than an irregular table. Just something to consider. <hr /></blockquote>

There are all kinds of factors here.

1. Is your table really level? Did a professional level it.
2. Is the surface clean, is there a chalk build up?
3. Are the balls good quality?
4. What type of cloth do you have, is it napped or newer cloth like Simomis, how old is the cloth?

Any of the above problems can cause the ball to drift off.

Even on a perfect table you will get a slight wander as the ball is effected by the weave as it slows, but it should be very slight.

Deeman3
08-29-2007, 01:37 PM
SPetty has top of the line cloth, top of the line table and the roundest balls I have ever seen.

bradb
08-31-2007, 10:21 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman3:</font><hr> SPetty has top of the line cloth, top of the line table and the roundest balls I have ever seen. <hr /></blockquote>

Nothin rolls worse than egg shaped balls!... great for shooting around corners though. /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif