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billiards89
08-23-2007, 04:30 PM
ive been trying to figure out if your location and competition in different areas makes a difference on your skill level in the APA like a 7 here might be like a 4 out of new york city or if its the same every were just going by innings and other stats

pooltchr
08-23-2007, 06:40 PM
Skill levels are determined by how a player does against the competition. If I am the only 4 in a league of 2s, I will become a 7. If I am the only 4 in a league of 7s, I will end up a 2. The level of competition you meet on a weekly basis will have an impact on your skill level, reletive to that of the others in your league. Once you get to the national level, you see the results. The stronger leagues will regularly produce the winning teams, and handicaps are often changed when players compete in national events.
Steve

nAz
08-24-2007, 01:48 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> . The stronger leagues will regularly produce the winning teams, and handicaps are often changed when players compete in national events.
Steve <hr /></blockquote>

don't forget about the scourge of the APA... the sand bagger. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Deeman3
08-24-2007, 07:19 AM
Steve,

As someone wise said in another post on this topic. APA, BCA and other leagues are what they are. If they are not for you (I don't like handicap leagues) then don't play, right? If anyone really expects a handicap system to be completely fair, they will be disappointed. However, if they didn't exist at all many lower skilled players would probably not participate in the game at all. When I did play in BCA, I knew giving up the weight would benefit my game, not the person getting the weight. If you are a 7 getting clobbered by 2's, maybe you have to change your game or tighten it up a bit. If you don't, maybe you are not really playing to that 7, sort of expecting to win. not earning it.

Cydpkt
08-24-2007, 09:11 AM
One reason I like the APA is that I get to play more than 3 games in one night. I hate sitting around to play one game then wait 40+ minutes until my next game. Especially when I am playing 9 ball where the match is going to take 30-40 minutes. I hate being there for 3+ hours and only playing 3 games. (Valley - I have not played BCA so I don't know how many games are played)

underdog
08-24-2007, 06:29 PM
The whole point in a handicap system is to give the lesser skilled player an advantage of sorts. If the lower ranked player plays well (relative to their skill) they will win every time. That is what makes them play more and get better. Which also keeps the league going. If you don't like it, play somewhere else. Don't whine about it. I don't like the sandbaggers that are throughout the APA either, but I mostly just feel sorry for someone that has to cheat to win.

pooltchr
08-24-2007, 08:31 PM
Dee, I agree with your post. Leagues are leagues. Personally I enjoy playing in league. My personal handicap makes me give up weight to most of my opponents, and play a few even. I never get a spot in league, and I like it that way. It makes me play at my best every match. If I give up 5 on the wire in a race to 6, I need to play nearly perfect pool if I want to win. If I'm playing even, I better play nearly perfect pool because my opponent can play at the same level I can. One or two mistakes can cost you the match either way. If you approach league play with the right attitude, it can be very challenging, and a lot of fun.

The response was to the question of whether the particular league you play in can have an impact on your handicap. Of course, it can. That is the only drawback I see to playing at the national level...too many variables that can skew the handicaps.

Since my goal in league is to compete on a regular basis, get my weekly table time in, and just enjoy playing some pool, league play works very well for me. I don't worry about my handicap, since I doubt the league operator would let it go down regardless of my performance. I played this session with two broken ribs, and didn't get any consideration from the league. I have to deal with the fact that I will be a 7 in this league as long as I play. Fine with me...because I believe I should be able to win with that handicap. So I'm quite happy playing league. After all, I am spending a few hours a week doing something I love to do.
Steve

Cydpkt
08-25-2007, 12:22 AM
I didn't say in my post that I didn't like the handicap system. I simply said that I enjoy playing more than 3 games in the 2+ hours that I will be out. Give them the handicap if I can't bring my game then my skill level needs to drop so I can be more competitive. My goal is to have every player on the other team NOT wanting to play me. I make my 7 or 9 points very hard to get. If you can get them then you deserve em. But let me tell you...you better pack a lunch because it won't be easy.

Deeman3
08-27-2007, 07:32 AM
I don't, on the whole, like handicapping although I'd probably have liked one Saturday playing John Scmidt. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif Anyway, I do play DeeWoman nine ball and give her the orange crush in nine ball and, believe it or not we make a pretty good game that way. I play her a set of 14.1 usually going to 50 to her 7 or 125 to her 15.

This exercise makes a challenge for both of us. However, it has taken some time for me to "adjust" to the spots. I wanted to, at first, play her like I normally did and she would clean my clock at times. Now, to beat her, as her game developws, I have to really concentrate. It's the same with leagues, you have to get over the fact your giving so much weight and expect it to be tough and to have to concentrate and play well. That's the very reason you're a higher ranked player IMO.

DeeMan

wolfdancer
08-27-2007, 11:15 AM
Steve, I aint's never played in the APA, and wouldn't even if Ed was the league operator....but I'm not sure you is kerrect about the handicaps.
Someone leaked their top secret, eyes only, criteria that go into factoring a player's skill level...and one variable was the level of competition. I think balls made, innings played is another??
I believe then, if you was the best in a league of 4's...you might only be a 5.
If I'm wrong, then their whole handicapping system is wrong.
You're opponent's skill level should not be the single determinate factor in est. your skill.
I've played in leagues where you get back at the table 4 or 5 times each game....up here, it's usually once, twice, or even never.....I think I raise the opponent's skill level by just racking....they all turn into run out players

SKennedy
08-27-2007, 12:24 PM
My experience so far in league play is that when I get beat by a lower skilled opponent, it is not because they were mis-rated or that it gave them an unfair advantage. It was simply because I did not play well and gave them too many chances at the table or did something stupid. I only had one exception...I played a guy who was the same level, but he was much better than his level designation. However, this was not the league's fault as he was a relatively new player and had not played enough matches for his level to be properly determined. I know that for me to beat a higher level player, I need to bring my best game, get a little lucky, and hope they make some mistakes. If all in all I did not think league play was fair, then I would not play. We've got a good league here and we enjoy the comraderie. I was suprised that I found league play to be harder than I expected. Guess I prefer to only be responsible for myself on the pool table and not part of a team. Had trouble adjusting to the "Team" thing.

SpiderMan
08-27-2007, 01:48 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> Steve, I aint's never played in the APA, and wouldn't even if Ed was the league operator....but I'm not sure you is kerrect about the handicaps.
Someone leaked their top secret, eyes only, criteria that go into factoring a player's skill level...and one variable was the level of competition. I think balls made, innings played is another??
I believe then, if you was the best in a league of 4's...you might only be a 5.
If I'm wrong, then their whole handicapping system is wrong.
You're opponent's skill level should not be the single determinate factor in est. your skill.
I've played in leagues where you get back at the table 4 or 5 times each game....up here, it's usually once, twice, or even never.....I think I raise the opponent's skill level by just racking....they all turn into run out players <hr /></blockquote>

The "leak" that I've seen online several times, and once compared with a season's worth of stats for my team, did not account for the level of local competition.

In other words, a typical 4 from one APA league system might play as well as a typical 6 from another region.

In my local APA league, I had a season with 100% wins and an average innings per win of less than 1.0. In singles competition in Nationals, I went 2 and out. And I thought I played pretty well - but I only got to play every two or three games /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

SpiderMan

pooltchr
08-27-2007, 03:12 PM
SKennedy,
That was the hardest adjustment for me when I first started playing league. You actually put more pressure on yourself to perform well when you have a team counting on you (and watching every shot!)
When I was a team captain, and got a new player on my team, I would always take them aside on the first night and tell them to look around the room at all the players. Then I would tell them that exactly one half of all those people were going to lose their match tonight. It helps to put them a little bit at ease, and take off some of the pressure. Once you understand that it's just a game, and the idea is to have fun, and do your best, it's a lot easier. I've won some and I've lost some, and the sun still came up the next morning.
Steve

SKennedy
08-27-2007, 03:50 PM
Steve,
Wish my captain had done that to me the first time, although I would have laughed him off and thought I was above needing that type of help. I had played a lot years ago and entered quite a few tournaments, stopped playing, and then started playing again after about 28 years. After a couple months, I entered 2 small local tournaments and won both..one 9-ball and one 8-ball. Nothing big, but I was pleased with myself and I did have some good competition. So, a few months later here I am starting as a level 4 in local APA. In my mind, this is easy as I should be a level 6. I've been playing some 6's and 7's and beating them 50% of the time. I was so nervous my first match I could not rack. Literally. When I went to remove the rack, the balls would move 2 to 3 inches!! After trying to rack 5 or 6 times I turned to my teammates and asked if they would rack for me. I was serious (and embarrased as hell) and they thought I was joking. Anyway, I got beat...by a 4 and the next week I was down to a 3. Talk about humbled! When I told those who know me well and have watched me play pool and participate in other competitions, including my wife and kids, they were shocked when I told them I could not rack my hands were shaking so bad! Heck, I was shocked and remember laughing at myself thinking "what is wrong with me? I can't believe this is happening to me!" I can't explain it, but league play was much different. My first session was not that good. However, we did make it to the playoffs. When we started playoffs, the jittery nerves were gone and I was very relaxed and started playing well. Guess pool is like everything else.... the mental part is much greater than we realize.