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pooltchr
09-19-2007, 07:33 PM
The President of Iran (A nice radical Muslim type who hates the west) will be visiting the US to address the United Nations. During his visit, he has asked to visit and see first-hand Ground Zero. Arrangements are being made to provide a police escort for him, and he will also have secret service protection during this little side trip. (I'm wondering if the secret service is there to protect him from the NYPD and FDNY)

Now my question. Do you think he wants to visit the site to remember the thousands of Americans who died as a result of the terrorist attack, or so he can see the results of the islamo-facist attack on our country? And my other question is Why in Hell are we (our government) going along with this insanity? Are we so far in the direction of trying to understand and placate these radicals that we will help them slap us in the face???

I seriously doubt he will be mourning the deaths of our citizens, but more likely gloating over the success his fellow terrorists friends had in attacking our country. I think we should let about 40 NYC firefighters be his body guards while he is in NYC.

Steve

DeadCrab
09-19-2007, 07:55 PM
My guess is that more could be made of it if he was prohibited from visiting the site.

Regarding protection, he probably needs it. There is a long history of protecting UN diplomats, regardless of their standing in the US.

The less coverage the better. Let the moment pass quietly.

wolfdancer
09-19-2007, 08:15 PM
It's all academic now as he was denied access. I doubt there is anything to gloat about,or anything that hasn't been already shown on TV, some 6 years later,
and he was going to lay a wreath, which would make him look foolish, if he were there to gloat.
I was surprised at the gesture, given the animosity between the two nations.
But whatta I know, I voted for Gore,and Kerry...and would do so again, even knowing now that GWB had a direct line to a higher power (and I don't mean Cheney)

moblsv
09-19-2007, 09:14 PM
They have to ban him. That will appease the Right and get Iran in the news in a way that will cause Americans to associate Iran with 9/11. It's a political win-win for Bush.

DickLeonard
09-20-2007, 06:26 AM
Moblsv Bush needs a win/win for the 28% they haven't had any in a long,long time.Thank MY God. For the life of me why the UN is in the USA? We are the number one violater of all UN treaties that we have signed. Why should the world cater to us? ####

SKennedy
09-20-2007, 08:32 AM
Why is the UN in NY? I don't think we asked the world to cater to us. I think it was the other way around.

Bobbyrx
09-20-2007, 08:39 AM
Appeasing the Right? So you're saying that people on the left want him to be able to go there?

eg8r
09-20-2007, 08:45 AM
I think I heard this morning that he was denied.

eg8r

Chopstick
09-20-2007, 09:18 AM
Now let's see here. This is the same nut job who recently hosted a multi-national summit about the Jewish Holocaust never happened. The same terrorist who participated in the attacks, hostage taking, and subsequent imprisonment of American citizens for over a year.

Well, there ain't no statute of limitations on kidnapping in the State of New York. Issue a warrant and arrest the bastard. If he cries about diplomatic immunity, tell him he's got the same immunity that he gave to our people.

moblsv
09-20-2007, 10:16 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bobbyrx:</font><hr> Appeasing the Right? So you're saying that people on the left want him to be able to go there? <hr /></blockquote>

Most of the world sees 9/11 as a tragedy. A tragedy for the victims, the country and the world. The Right seems to see at as their political football, a narrative that they need to control.

I don't know what 'people on the Left' think. Whoever they are.

DeadCrab
09-20-2007, 11:51 AM
I wonder if the State Department issued him a visa to enter the US.

SKennedy
09-20-2007, 12:26 PM
Tough decision.....50 million illegals from Mexico or this guy? My fear is that someone will hurt this guy, or worse, and then we have a martyr on our hands who was killed on our soil. I'd love to "injure" this guy myself, but I am rational enough (despite what Gayle thinks) to not put thoughts into action. I'm afraid there are folks out there who may put thought into action. SS and NYPD would have their hands full. My understanding is that while NYPD said no, he could go on is own with his own security escort? I don't know.

Deeman3
09-20-2007, 12:45 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote moblsv:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bobbyrx:</font><hr> Appeasing the Right? So you're saying that people on the left want him to be able to go there? <font color="blue"> The ACLU bus would be arriving shortly if there was time. Do not kid yourself.</font color> <hr /></blockquote>



I don't know what 'people on the Left' think. Whoever they are. <font color="blue"> I think this guy is one of them. </font color>

Bobbyrx
09-20-2007, 05:03 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote moblsv:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bobbyrx:</font><hr> Appeasing the Right? So you're saying that people on the left want him to be able to go there? <hr /></blockquote>

Most of the world sees 9/11 as a tragedy. A tragedy for the victims, the country and the world. <font color="blue">An earthquake is a tragedy, quite different from a cowardly act of terrorism against innocent civilians. As far as being a tragedy for the world, it seems that the part of the world that Ahmadinejad comes from, tragedies are celebrated by dancing in the streets </font color> The Right seems to see at as their political football, a narrative that they need to control.

I don't know what 'people on the Left' think. Whoever they are. <hr /></blockquote> <font color="blue"> Then do YOU think he should be allowed to go to ground zero? </font color>

SKennedy
09-20-2007, 05:32 PM
How about subzero?

Gayle in MD
09-21-2007, 07:15 AM
Brilliant reply, IMO. The Baker commission urged diplomatic efforts. Iran, actually did reach out to assist the US at the outset of the US Afghanistan effort, originally, before Bush decided it wasn't important to get the man who attacked us, and is still leading the Islamist Jihad.

Some are not intelligent enough to understand that we can't kill all the Muslims, in order to secure our safety, and that when faced with an ideological, religious based fanatical threat, diplomacy is the only possible, or lasting solution.

Infortunately, Republicans like to turn this into a joke, stating that there is no negotiating with radical Islamists who want to behead us, however, that is a smoke screen.

The negotiations must be with their counterparts, within their own religion, and with regional nations in the Middle East whose countries are also threatened by radical Islamists. One good first step would be to fully acknowledge the Arab countries, who are not assisting the cause for peace, and working instead against us.

Refusing to speak to our enemies, and jumping for the bombs, instead, is usually the Republican way, more money in their pockets, and those of corporate cronies.

Bush's cousin said that when the cousins got together to play ball, back when they were growing up, and Little Bushy didn't get his way, or was losing, he wouldn't play, and wouldn't let anyone else play either, took the ball in the house and sulked.

He still has the same disgusted smirk when reporters ask him questions he doesn't think a King should have to answer.

Now all the righties on here will suggest that I am on the side of the terrorists. However, they themselves have only two solutions, kill, and destroy. They're faith based, you know. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Gayle in MD
09-21-2007, 07:28 AM
Yeah, let's all hold our grudges for eternity, while we use bombs, and waste lives and money in order to force Iraqis to get past their own.

Republicans have nothing to sell, but fear itself!

Bush needs to block any effort Iran would make to approach us with any peace offering, such as laying a wreath at ground zero. He promised Isreal that after he finished in Iraq, he'd go smash Iran, too. Anything but diplomacy! Trouble is, he has no Army left to do the job, due to his overwhelming incompetence, and poor judgement.

Just one more ignorant mistake by Bush, and the right, IMO. Who does it hurt for Iran to show some small compassion for our country's great National loss. So what, if it isn't even genuine? Anything that might open up effective dialog between two opposing nations, the US, and Iran, would go against Bush's Axis Of Evil Ideology. Then, he wouldn't have any blank check to steal oil from Arabs. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Gayle in MD
09-21-2007, 07:35 AM
Do you think the ACLU has ever performed any function that was correct, humanitarian and worthwhile? I may not always agree with some of their actions, however, their purpose, to protect American Civil Liberties, is worthwhile, and does bring about thoughtful analysis of civilian liberties, and serve as a block to biggotry, and injustice.

Seems to me they've been on the decent side of quite a few issues. They do have an appropriate function, you know, even though authoritarian governments, thinkers, dictators, and such, don't like to have to answer to the demands of civil liberties, especially this administration, and our own religious fanatics.

Gayle in Md.

SKennedy
09-21-2007, 08:21 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Anything that might open up effective dialog between two opposing nations, the US, and Iran, would go against Bush's Axis Of Evil Ideology. <hr /></blockquote>

What about North Korea?

Deeman3
09-21-2007, 09:17 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Do you think the ACLU has ever performed any function that war correct, humanitarian and worthwhile? <font color="blue"> Yes, but not much recently as they are more a political organizatio than in the past. </font color> I may not always agree with some of their actions, however, their purpose, to protect American Civil Liberties, is worthwhile, and does bring about thoughtful analysis of civilian liberties. <font color="blue"> This is true. </font color>

Seems to me they've been on the decent side of quite a few issues. They do have an appropriate function, you know, even though authoritarian governments, thinkers, dictators, and such, don't like to have to answer to the demands of civil liberties, especially this administration, and our own religious fanatics.

Gayle in Md. <hr /></blockquote> <font color="blue">

They are a necessary organization and have, as you pointed out, done some good things. They now appear to be very left in the cases they take. In the past, they were much less likely to differentiate between politics and challenged anything that involved rights violations. I do want to have the freedom to critcise them and other organizations. I want them to better defend that right. </font color>

wolfdancer
09-21-2007, 09:33 AM
I'd have been a little more concerned if he asked to visit Lawrence Livermore Lab., and wanted to bring along his photography equipment.
There was only symbolic value in his visit to WTC....it's been already bombed, remember?

Gayle in MD
09-21-2007, 09:48 AM
What about North Korea? We should be talking with them also. Unfortunately, great dividers, are incapable of bringing people, or nations, together. Men who are insincere, have never been able to lead nations to peace. Nothing can improve until Bush is gone. The world hates George Bush, and Dick Cheney. They are only capable of increasing the number of our enemies, destroying America's honor, and decieving the American people. Bush has no credibility with the rest of the world. He has already displayed his vast ignorance, and deciet, over and over again. If a man is to lead, he must first be respected.

Gayle in MD
09-21-2007, 09:59 AM
[ QUOTE ]
. They now appear to be very left in the cases they take. <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="red">Maybe that's because they're usually defending people from the dictatorial actions of the right! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I think it's a shame that some label anything they preceive as wrong, as an ideology of the left. You think I'm from the left, but I'll betcha there would be loads more people in jail for breaking the law, for example, if I had my way.

Anyway, I'm guilty of it also, labeling, that is, but I do think that there are many more moderates, on both sides, left and right, than radical left, or right. Unfortunately, we moderates, often miscommunicate, due to the labels.

Take conservatism, for example. Did you think the last Congress was conservative? I no longer think the word, Conservative applies to the Republican Party, do you?</font color> /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Chopstick
09-21-2007, 11:57 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Yeah, let's all hold our grudges for eternity, while we use bombs, and waste lives and money in order to force Iraqis to get past their own.

<font color="blue">What if Hitler wanted to visit Jerusalem? Would you tell the Israelis to step aside? Don't hold a grudge?

I am just calling the man what he is. A criminal. </font color>

Republicans have nothing to sell, but fear itself!

<font color="blue">Using conceptualized fear to control populations is not an attribute of the right or the left. It is a attribute of government and has been employed long before this country existed.

As far as the Bushrant goes, political discussions are meaningless to me. I am waiting for someone to stand up and say, here is where we are and this is what we are going to do to fix it. Then just fix it and go on to the next thing. Until someone does that, nothing will ever change.</font color>

<hr /></blockquote>

Deeman3
09-21-2007, 12:27 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> I no longer think the word, Conservative applies to the Republican Party, do you?</font color> /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif <hr /></blockquote> <font color="blue">

No. </font color>

Wally_in_Cincy
09-21-2007, 12:52 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Iran, actually did reach out to assist the US at the outset of the US Afghanistan effort, originally, before Bush decided it wasn't important to get the man who attacked us, and is still leading the Islamist Jihad.

<hr /></blockquote>

Uhhhhhhhhhhh /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

There's something I haven't missed. My head is spinning.

Gayle you're making less sense now than you did 2 years ago.

Deeman, eg8r, pooltchr do you guys have any hair left?

Deeman3
09-21-2007, 01:24 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr>Deeman, eg8r, pooltchr do you guys have any hair left? <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue"> No, but we have learned that Iran is a nation of peace and that their leader "feels" our pain. We have just not given him a fair chance. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

You've been gone too long. /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif</font color>

SKennedy
09-21-2007, 02:02 PM
Hey Gayle? My point about North Korea is that we have used diplomacy and economic pressure which has worked well with them. I was only pointing out that what you were saying about the Axis of Evil and the administration was not completely true as evidenced by North Korea, which proves you are not correct on all fronts.

pooltchr
09-21-2007, 03:23 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Who does it hurt for Iran to show some small compassion for our country's great National loss.

<font color="red">I doubt if that was the intent behind the request. </font color>

So what, if it isn't even genuine?

<font color="red"> You must be kidding...at least I hope so. </font color> <hr /></blockquote>

I don't believe pandering to these criminal terrorists who preach Death to the US. I believe in eliminating them. If they were willing to live and let live, it would be one thing, but they have made it clear that they will not rest until our entire country either converts to their religeon, or is gone. Inviting them to tea and cookies isn't the answer.
Steve

pooltchr
09-21-2007, 03:28 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr>
Take conservatism, for example. Did you think the last Congress was conservative? I no longer think the word, Conservative applies to the Republican Party, do you?</font color> /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif <hr /></blockquote>

No, I don't think it applies to Republicans or Democrats either. I've been saying that for years. There is very little coming out of Washington from either party that can make a true conservative happy.
Steve

Chopstick
09-21-2007, 03:36 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SKennedy:</font><hr> ....which proves you are not correct on all fronts. <hr /></blockquote>

Oh geez, you're askin' for it now. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

eg8r
09-21-2007, 07:24 PM
What's up Wally. Long time no chat. How are things?

eg8r

Wally_in_Cincy
09-22-2007, 09:37 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> What's up Wally. Long time no chat. How are things?

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>

Excellent. Very busy though. Beats the alternative.

Thanks for asking.

New2Pool
09-22-2007, 01:18 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> It's all academic now as he was denied access. I doubt there is anything to gloat about,or anything that hasn't been already shown on TV, some 6 years later,
and he was going to lay a wreath, which would make him look foolish, if he were there to gloat.
I was surprised at the gesture, given the animosity between the two nations.
But whatta I know, I voted for Gore,and Kerry...and would do so again, even knowing now that GWB had a direct line to a higher power (and I don't mean Cheney) <hr /></blockquote>

Wolf,
I don't read the political posts here often because I see not purpose in it. I am not going to change anyone's mind and they are not going to change mine. However, I wish there were more people like you on the board. You stated that you don't like GWB and would not vote for him even though you believe he is a sincere Christian man. I know that should not impress me so much in a perfect world but in the world we live it you are a prince among men.

Regards,

wolfdancer
09-22-2007, 01:31 PM
Thanks for the kind words. Politics might bring out the worst in us, and while I can totally disagree with say, Deeman(an otherwise sterling chap, but with this one flaw in his reasoning)...we can also rib each other about other topics. That's not the case with some others here, and that includes my reactions to their posts...
Bottom line is, you will probably make as many enemies as you would friends, in a political discourse.
So, as HST once said "If you can't stand the heat....."
If you have something political to add though, some anger to work off...jump right in...beats going home and beating up the dog....jd

Wally_in_Cincy
09-22-2007, 08:38 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote New2Pool:</font><hr> you are a prince among men.
<hr /></blockquote>

he;s the wolf formerly known as prince

Gayle in MD
09-23-2007, 11:51 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, let's all hold our grudges for eternity, while we use bombs, and waste lives and money in order to force Iraqis to get past their own.
<font color="red">Gayle </font color> -----------------------------------------------------------

What if Hitler wanted to visit Jerusalem? Would you tell the Israelis to step aside? Don't hold a grudge? <font color="blue">Chop </font color>

<font color="red">How can you compare Hitler and the Jews, to Ahmadinajon and America? This is the kind of right wing comparison that is used over and over again. it doesn't address the true issue. Bush put this man into a position of power, when he removed Saddam. Even the Isrealis didn't want that. They had enough sense to realize that without Saddam, Iran, would have little or no barrier to grasping all the power they wanted. Reagan is the one who armed many terrorists. Bush Sr. is the one who reduced our armed forces, and they both armed the Talliban. Now Bush is out there arming more terrorists in Iraq, and elsewhere. nukes to India, and several other countries. The way to peace is to keep Republicans out of office long enough to reduce weapons, and nukes, and re-build allies. Kerry was right, Bush was wrong. Simple as that. Wrong war, wrong place, wrong time. </font color>

I am just calling the man what he is. A criminal.

<font color="red">I could say the same about Bush, Cheney, Rove, Libby, Rice and Powell, they all committed felonies when they lied to the congress, among other things, but you don't think we should hold any grudges against them, do you? </font color>

Republicans have nothing to sell, but fear itself!

Using conceptualized fear to control populations is not an attribute of the right or the left. <font color="red">It is now. It has been Bush, and the Republicans only M.O. for seven years now. Guiliani, and the other presidential contenders, are now using the same methods.</font color> It is a attribute of government and has been employed long before this country existed.
<font color="red">So what? That doesn't make it a useful and honorable phenomena, now, does it? Using fear, lies and confusion to distort the true facts, along with slander, distraction and exaggerations to divert the population from their own illegal activities, and from their own seecret dirty dealings, doesn't make it right now, anymore than it was right, long ago.</font color>

As far as the Bushrant goes, political discussions are meaningless to me. I am waiting for someone to stand up and say, here is where we are and this is what we are going to do to fix it. <font color="red">Hillary has been doing that all week. </font color> Then just fix it and go on to the next thing. Until someone does that, nothing will ever change. <font color="red">I agree, that's why I am voting a straight Democratic ticket, so that we can get enough Democrats into office to fix all the mess Republicans have made, again! /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif </font color>

Gayle in MD
09-23-2007, 11:53 AM
<font color="red">You do cause me to respect you Deeman, since you do step up and say what is so at times. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif </font color>

Gayle in MD
09-23-2007, 12:00 PM
WallEy,
How very typical of you. Nothing to add but insults, and after your previous positions have all been to thoroughly proven wrong. I suppose you don't wish to discuss that though, right? Easier to just jump on and continue the insults? Have at it, friend, I give you a wide birth, since you're going to have to build your strength up to dealing with President Hillary in a short time, you will need all the insults you can muster.

Grown any new hair lately?

Gayle in Md.

Gayle in MD
09-23-2007, 12:17 PM
I've never said I'm correct about everything, friend. I do as all others here, and say what I believe. I don't believe North Korea has ever been the threat that bush painted them to be. I will grant you that N. Korea seems to have offered some compromise, but only time will tell if they are sincere.

I'm for diplomatic efforts, in lieu of going off half cocked, like Bush did, in Iraq. Calling other countries, the Axis of Evil, is not my idea of effective diplomacy, and since all experts seem to suggest that we have emboldened and strengthened our enemies, and it's pretty obvious that Bush's plan was unrealistic, to say the least, and that his incompetence and deciet is unparrelled in our history, forgive me if I have my doubts about any lasting results with North Korea.

IMO, our problems in the Middle East are more to the issue of mediating between Isreal, and Iran, and killing off alWaeda, than in prolonging this on-going occupation in the midst of the Iraq civil war. If a war isn't necessary enough to re-institute the draft, then it is suspect. IMO, we had no right to occupy another country for the purpose of regime change. In fact, we had agreements not to do so. further, doing so has been a complete disaster, and weakened our country, while building the strength of our enemies. I think we should not waste anymore more blood or money on protecting Isreal, which isn't always on the side of what is right, either, anyway. We should have let the nuts in the Middle East settle their own problems, and spen all our time and money on a new revolution to free ourselves from fossil fuels. Remember, Reagan was the man who took the solar panels off the white House? As long as corporate fascist pigs are running our country through their corporate owned Republican party, you can bet we'll never turn around the problems we are facing with fossil fuels.

Gayle in Md.
bin Laden's family bailed Bush out of his last failed oil well company....remember??

Gayle in MD
09-23-2007, 01:16 PM
Frankly, Steve, I don't trust any of those countries in the Middle East, nor do I think we should be involved in their grudges with one another. I think this country of ours would have been way ahead of the game if we had listened to Jimmy Carter, and addressed our fossil fuel problems long long ago. Instead, the way I see it, Reagan, bush Sr. and Jr., have all been spreading arms all over the Middle East, and trying to maintain our dependence on Oil, to please their corporate Fascist friends, like Halliburton, who gave Cheney 38 million dollar bribe to keep us digging around over there for the purpose of more Oil contracts for the future.

Carter believed in diplomacy through the effort to spread good will, and he ended one of the longest grudges ever. the Republicans have done everything they could do to arm up radicals over the years, instead of addressing in a responsible maner solving our problems with fossil fuels. The last president to significantly reduce our oil usage, was Jimmy Carter.

[ QUOTE ]
I don't believe pandering to these criminal terrorists who preach Death to the US. <font color="red">It would help if you could keep these different factions in their proper place in your mind. Our biggest threat is bin Laden, and his followers. al Qaeda is hell bent on killing all people who are not muslims. Many Iranians support our western culture, and would like more of it in their own lives. You can't judge the entier country, by one nut. </font color> I believe in eliminating them. <font color="red">typical right wing philosophy. Anything but opening dialog which could lead to solving the issues without war and bombs. </font color> If they were willing to live and let live, it would be one thing, but they have made it clear that they will not rest until our entire country either converts to their religeon, or is gone. <font color="red">Again, you are addressing the philosophy of al Qaeda, remember them, the ones that Bush has failed to stop, and instead, emboldened them. I don't think any of you righties will ever be able to keep this straight, after having been so thoroughly brain washed by bush to think that 9/11, was the work of Saddam, are you now saying that it was also the work of Arhmadidajon? I thought that was what we were discussing. do you think that a college should have to be censored by the Bush administration, too? Along with our scientists? </font color> Inviting them to tea and cookies isn't the answer.
<font color="red">Has anyone ever said that was the answer? And, Isn't that the same sort of rhetoric used by people like Rush, Hannity, Coulter? I do wish your comrads could grow up! All this BS about Patreaus, while our people are being blown up every day, in a civil war. How come the right didn't speak out against the Republicans bashing war heros with no legs, and former POW's, when Bush slandered McCaim's entire family? Just another case of the end justifies the means? We Americans have been lied to by Generals all along. Bush has failed to give them what they asked for, all along, while insisting otherwise. Between the 180,000 contractors, and our 170,000 troops, isn't that just about what General ShinChekki said would be needed? Only now, we're paying Blackwater, and other thugs, three times what our soldiers get paid. As long as the Corporations get their money, right? Iraqis want us out. Americans want us out. the only people who want us to stay in Iraq, are the righties who can't follow the money, and the corporate fascists who are making a bundle off it. When Bush sais the other day that he'd be helpful to the Republican candidates, if that doesn't tell you how damn far out of touch with reality this man is, then I don't know what will. patreaus wouldn't be at the lead, if Bush wasn't sure that both he, and Gates, in a pinch, would back him up regardless of how impossible the mission. Gates wouldn't answer, when he was asked by Broder if he knew then what he knows now, would he still have supported this occupation. Time will tell if either of them prove to be honest men, but so far, it doesn't look good to me, given the happy face Patreaus has put on things. Now, Bush is arming terrorists. Isn't that just how al Qaeda, and the Talliban, were both launched? Our people are being killed by the same bombs and guns that Reagan, Bush Sr. and Bush Jr. have been spreading all over the Middle East for decades. Is there any space between tea and cookies, and spreading arms throughout the most unsettled, volital region in the world for two decades?

Gayle in Md.

pooltchr
09-23-2007, 05:11 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> &lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
I don't believe pandering to these criminal terrorists who preach Death to the US. <font color="red">It would help if you could keep these different factions in their proper place in your mind. Our biggest threat is bin Laden, and his followers. al Qaeda is hell bent on killing all people who are not muslims. Many Iranians support our western culture, and would like more of it in their own lives. You can't judge the entier country, by one nut. </font color> I believe in eliminating them. <font color="red">typical right wing philosophy. Anything but opening dialog which could lead to solving the issues without war and bombs.

<font color="blue"> You separated two sentences that were meant to be tied together. The only way to deal with someone who wants to eliminate you is to eliminate them first. All the dialogue in the world is not going to change their mindset. They see us as evil, and they are willing to give up their lives and the lives of their children to see our way of life destroyed. They have a seventh century mentality and understand only one thing...force. We have no choice but to deal with them on their level. </font color> </font color> If they were willing to live and let live, it would be one thing, but they have made it clear that they will not rest until our entire country either converts to their religeon, or is gone. <font color="red">Again, you are addressing the philosophy of al Qaeda, <font color="blue">Yes Gayle, I do remember them. I'm not nearly as stupid or ignorant as you would like to think. </font color> remember them, the ones that Bush has failed to stop, and instead, emboldened them. I don't think any of you righties will ever be able to keep this straight <font color="blue"> It's so sad that you think anyone who doesn't think the same way you do must be stupid. </font color> , after having been so thoroughly brain washed by bush to think that 9/11, was the work of Saddam, <font color="blue"> I never believed Saddam had a hand in 9/11...you are putting words in my mouth </font color> are you now saying that it was also the work of Arhmadidajon? <font color="blue"> Nope! Never said that either. </font color> I thought that was what we were discussing. <font color="blue"> We were discussing what possible reason a militant muslim would have to personally visit the site where his kind committed a huge criminal act against innocent Americans. </font color> do you think that a college should have to be censored by the Bush administration, too? <font color="blue"> Changing the subject? </font color> Along with our scientists? </font color> Inviting them to tea and cookies isn't the answer.
<font color="red">Has anyone ever said that was the answer? <font color="blue"> OK, let's put it in terms you might be able to understand. Suppose you and Bin Laden could sit down one-on-one and talk. What would you say to him that you believe would make him change his feelings about Americans? I don't think you can answer that question, because it would be impossible. So what point is there in trying to "establish dialogue"? You might as well be serving tea and cookies...you would accomplish exactly the same thing! </font color> And, Isn't that the same sort of rhetoric used by people like Rush, Hannity, Coulter? <font color="blue"> since I don't pay much attention to what any of them say, I really can't answer that. </font color> I do wish your comrads could grow up! <font color="blue"> I've often thought the same thing about you. </font color> All this BS about Patreaus, <font color="blue"> I guess since you didn't like the message, you attack the messenger. </font color> while our people are being blown up every day, in a civil war. How come the right didn't speak out against the Republicans bashing war heros with no legs, and former POW's, when Bush slandered McCaim's entire family? Just another case of the end justifies the means? We Americans have been lied to by Generals all along. <font color="blue"> WHOA, now! When the politicians were voicing support of the war, you got on here and argued that the generals on the ground in Iraq were the ones we should be listening to. Now one comes along that doesn't share your views, and now all Generals are liars??? </font color> Bush has failed to give them what they asked for, all along, while insisting otherwise. Between the 180,000 contractors, and our 170,000 troops, isn't that just about what General ShinChekki said would be needed? Only now, we're paying Blackwater, and other thugs, three times what our soldiers get paid. <font color="blue"> If some goon wants to go over there and fight, and someone is willing to pay him to do it, it doesn't bother me a bit. </font color> As long as the Corporations get their money, right? Iraqis want us out. Americans want us out. the only people who want us to stay in Iraq, are the righties <font color="blue"> Since I am a conservative, I guess that makes me one of the "righties". Problem is I don't want us there. But I'm realistic enough to see the ultimate chaos that would result from our leaving right now. No, it's not a good situation, but it's something we have to deal with. </font color> who can't follow the money, and the corporate fascists who are making a bundle off it. <font color="blue"> This is nothing new. Throughout our history, our economy has always done well in wartime. Wars require equipment and manpower, and neither comes free. </font color> When Bush sais the other day that he'd be helpful to the Republican candidates, if that doesn't tell you how damn far out of touch with reality this man is, then I don't know what will. <font color="blue"> GW is a Republican in name only. He doesn't act like one, he doesn't think like one, and he sure spends money like a Democrat! </font color> patreaus wouldn't be at the lead, if Bush wasn't sure that both he, and Gates, in a pinch, would back him up regardless of how impossible the mission. <font color="blue"> Patreaus is there because he is one of the most qualified people in the entire Army. Check his record, and tell me someone who has a better resume for the job. </font color> Gates wouldn't answer, when he was asked by Broder if he knew then what he knows now, would he still have supported this occupation. Time will tell if either of them prove to be honest men, but so far, it doesn't look good to me, given the happy face Patreaus has put on things. <font color="blue"> Again, you don't like the message, so shoot the messenger </font color> Now, Bush is arming terrorists. Isn't that just how al Qaeda, and the Talliban, were both launched? Our people are being killed by the same bombs and guns that Reagan, Bush Sr. and Bush Jr. have been spreading all over the Middle East for decades. Is there any space between tea and cookies, and spreading arms throughout the most unsettled, volital region in the world for two decades?
<font color="blue"> Now you're rambling to the point where I'm not even sure what point you are trying to make...not that it really matters. I've wasted too much time on this as it is. </font color>

Gayle in Md. <hr /></blockquote>
<font color="blue"> Steve</font color>

Wally_in_Cincy
09-23-2007, 07:14 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> WallEy,
How very typical of you. Nothing to add but insults, <hr /></blockquote>

How about this insult. You're still a shrew.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Have at it, friend, <hr /></blockquote>

I'm not your friend. I try to stay away from people that carry bitterness in their hearts.

Philippians 4:8

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Have at it, friend, I give you a wide birth, <hr /></blockquote>

Do you measn "berth" Ms. "I read 20 books a Month"?

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Grown any new hair lately <hr /></blockquote>

I have plenty of hair thank you. But I'm still ugly if that gives your heart any respite.

Wally_in_Cincy
09-24-2007, 06:17 AM
ok I take back the shrew remark.

It's just that your intense hatred of Bush has made you just about the most irritable woman I have ever encountered. Next to Hillary anyway.

Chopstick
09-24-2007, 09:00 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, let's all hold our grudges for eternity, while we use bombs, and waste lives and money in order to force Iraqis to get past their own.
<font color="red">Gayle </font color> -----------------------------------------------------------

What if Hitler wanted to visit Jerusalem? Would you tell the Israelis to step aside? Don't hold a grudge? <font color="blue">Chop </font color>

<font color="red">How can you compare Hitler and the Jews, to Ahmadinajon and America? <font color="blue"> I didn't. You brought it up. I merely provided an analogy that highlighted a ridiculous idea. Why don't you tell one of the hostages not to hold a grudge? This isn't about vendetta. It is about justice. </font color>

This is the kind of right wing comparison that is used over and over again. <font color="blue">No, it isn't. I have no political affiliation. </font color> it doesn't address the true issue. <font color="blue">I would be willing to bet that you don't know what the issue with Iran actually is. </font color>

Bush put this man into a position of power, when he removed Saddam. Even the Isrealis didn't want that. They had enough sense to realize that without Saddam, Iran, would have little or no barrier to grasping all the power they wanted. Reagan is the one who armed many terrorists. Bush Sr. is the one who reduced our armed forces, and they both armed the Talliban. Now Bush is out there arming more terrorists in Iraq, and elsewhere. nukes to India, and several other countries. The way to peace is to keep Republicans out of office long enough to reduce weapons, and nukes, and re-build allies. Kerry was right, Bush was wrong. Simple as that. Wrong war, wrong place, wrong time. </font color>

<font color="blue">Nonsense. </font color>

I am just calling the man what he is. A criminal.

<font color="red">I could say the same about Bush, Cheney, Rove, Libby, Rice and Powell, they all committed felonies when they lied to the congress, among other things, but you don't think we should hold any grudges against them, do you? </font color>

<font color="blue">They were not video taped and photographed in the commission of a crime. Nor did they brag about it openly afterward. </font color>

Republicans have nothing to sell, but fear itself!

Using conceptualized fear to control populations is not an attribute of the right or the left. <font color="red">It is now. It has been Bush, and the Republicans only M.O. for seven years now. Guiliani, and the other presidential contenders, are now using the same methods.</font color> It is a attribute of government and has been employed long before this country existed.
<font color="red">So what? That doesn't make it a useful and honorable phenomena, now, does it? Using fear, lies and confusion to distort the true facts, along with slander, distraction and exaggerations to divert the population from their own illegal activities, and from their own seecret dirty dealings, doesn't make it right now, anymore than it was right, long ago.</font color>

<font color="blue">Then why are you so zealous a participant in this mechanism? </font color>

As far as the Bushrant goes, political discussions are meaningless to me. I am waiting for someone to stand up and say, here is where we are and this is what we are going to do to fix it. <font color="red">Hillary has been doing that all week. </font color> Then just fix it and go on to the next thing. Until someone does that, nothing will ever change. <font color="red">I agree, that's why I am voting a straight Democratic ticket, so that we can get enough Democrats into office to fix all the mess Republicans have made, again! /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif </font color>

<font color="blue">Hilliary is just a parrot. She has no sense of her own. It is the machinery behind her that is to be feared. No one is talking about the real issues. No one wants to. We just splash in the pool and make up things to go and do so it makes us feel like we are doing something.</font color>

<hr /></blockquote>

Chopstick
09-24-2007, 09:02 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote New2Pool:</font><hr> you are a prince among men.
<hr /></blockquote>

he;s the wolf formerly known as prince <hr /></blockquote>

Oh geez, and you thought he was hard to live with before!

Deeman3
09-24-2007, 11:58 AM
What are some really good questions to ask this clown?

The Daily Kos people voted that 43% of their readership would prefer him to GWB as the American President. If he was a natural born American, he could be the Democratic pick of VP in 2008. Does this mean they would prefer no women in political power? Killing of all non-Muslims? Plotting the elimination of Israel? Training of children to bomb innocent civilians?

1. If Arriana Huffington was an Iranian citizen, how would her views be tolerated in your country?

2. To demonstrated the freedom of religeon in your country, will you, right now, criticise the Mullahs that are purported to be your bosses?

3. Is the life of an infidel of any value to you?

4. Will you formally endorse a woman for the Presidency of the United States if she looked good in a burka?

5. Can our leaders openly and freely make a speech, as you are doing today, in Iran?

6. Do you see the irony of the American left supporting your right to speak being the very first you would destroy in your country? Other than political brainwashing value, do you care?

eg8r
09-24-2007, 12:04 PM
No problem, hopefully you will not be a stranger.

eg8r

Deeman3
09-24-2007, 12:19 PM
Sorry, but Ahmadinejed has already answered a couple of my key questions. He said that Iranian women were the freeest women in the world.

O.k, we will, of course, take his word on that. I assume that this elevated treatment of Iranian women is the new benchmark we should all be aiming for. I won't bother to reference or post photos and accounts to the contrary. That might be constrewed as an unfair assessment by the media.

I can't wait for the really hardball questions by the Columbia President. I bet they will be tough.

DickLeonard
09-24-2007, 01:27 PM
Wally the Repubs make no sense all, they should never be in charge of the Chicken Coop. I cannot believe that Gayle is still typing away with Facts but Saddam aided Al-Quadia, he was making a neuclear weapons and Gas bombs.

Cheney,Bush,Rice still lie on TV about these issues even tho they have been prove wrong over and over again. If I was the President of Iran I would be trying to get my hands on Bombs. The world cannot trust America anymore, just because a Terrorist Bombs us that does not give us Carte Blanc to Invade anyone whose actions we don't like.

We spend more on weapons than the whole world.Then we supply them to anyone who suits our whims. Then our Army pays with their lives to take them back. I keep telling Gayle she is wasting her life trying to convert religious wackos who believe it is evil to commit abortion but it is alright to kill them with bombs.
Bring back Larry.####

wolfdancer
09-24-2007, 01:58 PM
Don't go busting my chops...

Deeman3
09-24-2007, 03:10 PM
I'd like to be the first to applaud Lee Bollinger's harsh questioning of Ahmadineged. Apparently he held the guys feet to the fire and condemed his words actions and answers. Bravo, I didn't like them hosting him but this sort of redeams the university in some ways.

We did learn that Iran has no homosexuals at least. Funny what you don't see when you kill and persecute people. So, from that standpoint, it is a learning experience.

Gayle in MD
09-24-2007, 03:51 PM
Steve writes....
[ QUOTE ]
If they were willing to live and let live, it would be one thing, but they have made it clear that they will not rest until our entire country either converts to their religeon, or is gone. <hr /></blockquote>

Who is they? As far as I know, Ahmadinejad has never made such statements about the United States.

Also, there were Iranians killed at the WTC on 9/11, too.

Why do you lump everyone in the Middle East together with al Qaeda, the terrorists that are out to get us, the ones who attacked us? Look at the history of what we've done in their part of the world. Didn't we assasinate Iran's leader back in the fifties? Didn't we support Saddam when he was killing Iranians on our behalf? Didn't we secretly trade arms with terrorists? Didn't we finance the Talliban? I get pretty disgusted with people who don't want to acknowledge anything the Republicans have done over the years that led to all our problems in the Middle East. What do you think turned Iraqis against us after we brought down Saddam? It was our own fault, due to the things we did over there, with Bush pulling the strings, killing people, removing them from their own army, destroying their country with bombs. Now he tries to balme others for all the mistakes. He is the man who bungled it. He is the one who lied.

Somethimes the smart thing to do is to just leave things alone. Sorry to disappoint you, but all experts, including our own 16 National Intelligence Agencies, say Bush's policies have made everything worse. Michael Ware, who has been in Iraq throughout this mess, stated that every single point that Bush and Patreaus have stated regarding what will happen in Iraq if we leave, has already happened. The Bush administration denied there was any insurgency for two F-ing years~! Then, they denied there was a civil war for over a year. Now they're trying to say there is progbress, when in fact, there have been more roadside bombs set off than this same time last years, and the sectarian violence always drops off in the summer months. They're doing what they've always done, LIE.

Iraqis want us out, the majority of Americans want us out, the only ones who want us to stay is Bush, and the contractors. George Bush is not capable of making good decisions. All experts agree, he has created the worst foreign policy disaster in history, and we all know damn well he lied us into this mess. But, you righties still think he should be calling the shots. And, you still refer to any and all over there as people who want to kill us. Try to get this in your head, will you? Al Qaeda is the faction which has promised to attack us, and kill all those who are not muslims, not the Iranian President. I surely don't see him as any angel, I just think that talking, and discourse between Nations, is better than making the kind of mess Bush has made in Iraq, by being just another bomb happy neocon, who lies us into killing off people in another country so that he can steal their oil.

Saddam was no threat to us. There was no connection between Saddam and 9/11. There was no connection between Saddam and bin Laden, or al Qaeda. Bush lied, and hundreds of thousands have since died. Now, we have to listen to the same right wing bomb happy nuts, outraged over a University allowing a percieved enemy to speak, because a man is given an opportunity to speak at a college that stands for freedom of speech. You guys are too much! Same old radical, authoritarian, cowboy diplomacy that got us into this mess. How come you're not insulted and outraged over George Bush lying us into a war? Lying for six years about the war, and still lying? Outing a CIA agent? Censoring Scientists? Torturing innocent people? Holding secret meetings on our energy policy with the Oil CEO's and standing back while they gouge all of us for five years? Spending like a drunken sailor, and running this country into the biggest debt in history, borrowing more than all previous presidents put together? The last thing you should gripe about is a damn speech, or a political ad in the newspapers. Almost four thousand Americans are dead, and the right is pissed off over a damn advertisment, and a speech! B

ush can't go anywhere in this country and speak unless they go through and hand pick everybody who will be allowed to be in there because so many Americans hate his guts for all his lies and incompetence. Bush had done more to hurt us than Ahmadinejad ever thought about, if you ask me. I thought you were so mad about illegal aliens. How come you're not mad because after Clinton added over 100,000 border gaurds, and the flow was nearly copmpletely stopped, Bush came in and redirected those funds in January of 2001, and laid off all 100,000? He cut the border gaurd budget by over 1/3, including money for the Coast Gaurd. CG ships were forced to come into port, because they didn't have nay money to run the ships, and this, AFTER 9/11. How come you're not mad about Americans dying to protect Maliki, when he calls Ahmadinejad his BROTHER, holding his hand and kissing him, while our people are dying over there?

Thank God most Americans have paid enough attention to finding the real truth about Bush, and the Republican Party, Republican corruption and incompetence, and that the Democrats are getting much more campaign money than Republicans! Now there's another one in Alaska, dirty dancing with the oil companies, taking bribes, and more to be exposed for the same. How many does that make now?

Gayle in Md.

Gayle in MD
09-24-2007, 03:58 PM
You can bet your life Bush won't ever enter into any debate with this guy. He speaks five languages, fluently, and has a PHD in engineering. Bush can't even speak one language, English! /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

pooltchr
09-24-2007, 05:26 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Steve writes....
&lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
If they were willing to live and let live, it would be one thing, but they have made it clear that they will not rest until our entire country either converts to their religeon, or is gone. <hr /></blockquote>

Who is they? As far as I know, Ahmadinejad has never made such statements about the United States.
<font color="red"> Yes, he has a fine resume. He has always been very supportive of the western culture. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif </font color>



Why do you lump everyone in the Middle East together with al Qaeda, the terrorists that are out to get us, the ones who attacked us? <font color="red"> I don't. Just the ones who are criminal terrorists. </font color> What do you think turned Iraqis against us after we brought down Saddam? It was our own fault, <font color="red"> Thank you for setting me straight on that one. 9/11 was our fault. We brought it on ourselves. We are the bad guys and they are the poor victims. /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif </font color>
Somethimes the smart thing to do is to just leave things alone. <font color="red"> When you are swimming in the ocean and a shark is circling you, would you rather do nothing and hope he doesn't attack, or hope someone on shore has a high powered rifle to take him out? </font color>

But, you righties still think he should be calling the shots. And, you still refer to any and all over there as people who want to kill us. Try to get this in your head, will you? Al Qaeda is the faction which has promised to attack us, and kill all those who are not muslims, not the Iranian President. <font color="red"> Sorry, but I'm just a stupid ignorant "rightie" who couldn't possibly understand something like that. </font color> I surely don't see him as any angel, <font color="red"> On that point, we agree. </font color> I just think that talking, and discourse between Nations, is better than making the kind of mess Bush has made in Iraq, <font color="red"> I asked you previously what you would actually say if you had the chance that would change Bin Laden's mind about the west, and you chose to ignore the question. </font color>

Saddam was no threat to us. <font color="red"> Maybe not directly, but to our allies, he was. </font color> There was no connection between Saddam and 9/11. <font color="red"> OMG&lt; You're kidding me! In case you didn't notice, I never said there was. </font color> There was no connection between Saddam and bin Laden, or al Qaeda.

Now, we have to listen to the same right wing bomb happy nuts, outraged over a University allowing a percieved enemy to speak, because a man is given an opportunity to speak at a college that stands for freedom of speech. <font color="red"> I wonder how he would feel if GW wanted to visit his country and speak to college students there. I'm betting he wouldn't be allowed to step foot anywhere near them. </font color> You guys are too much! Same old radical, authoritarian, cowboy diplomacy that got us into this mess. <font color="red"> No, YOU are too much! Your liberal bleeding heart nonsense that the rest of the world is good, and America is the root of all evil tells much about you. </font color> How come you're not insulted and outraged over George Bush lying us into a war? Lying for six years about the war, and still lying? Outing a CIA agent? Censoring Scientists? Torturing innocent people? Holding secret meetings on our energy policy with the Oil CEO's and standing back while they gouge all of us for five years? Spending like a drunken sailor, and running this country into the biggest debt in history, borrowing more than all previous presidents put together? <font color="red"> Of all that crap, I do believe he has spent money like there is no tomorrow...and I have voiced my concerns about it in the past. </font color> The last thing you should gripe about is a damn speech, or a political ad in the newspapers. <font color="red"> You are the last person who should tell me what I should gripe about. You, who has spent untold hours griping about the administration....over and over and over and over... </font color> Almost four thousand Americans are dead, and the right is pissed off over a damn advertisment, and a speech! <font color="red"> You're damn right I'm pissed off about it. And I'm thrilled that the president of Columbia had the nads to stand up to him and call him a crooked little dictator. </font color> B

. Bush had done more to hurt us than Ahmadinejad ever thought about, if you ask me. <font color="red"> Actually, I don't believe I asked you, but your response once again simply says you think we are the bad guys, and the rest of the world are the good guys. </font color> I thought you were so mad about illegal aliens. <font color="red"> I am. But that isn't what this thread is about. </font color>

Thank God most Americans have paid enough attention to finding the real truth about Bush, and the Republican Party, Republican corruption and incompetence, and that the Democrats are getting much more campaign money than Republicans! <font color="red"> Neither is this. </font color> Now there's another one in Alaska, dirty dancing with the oil companies, taking bribes, and more to be exposed for the same. <font color="red"> nor this </font color> How many does that make now?

Gayle in Md. <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="red"> It seems you may have a problem focusing on one thought. Perhaps you should consult your primary care provider. Thay have medication that can help this problem.

Steve </font color>

Gayle in MD
09-24-2007, 05:38 PM
[ QUOTE ]
You separated two sentences that were meant to be tied together. The only way to deal with someone who wants to eliminate you is to eliminate them first. All the dialogue in the world is not going to change their mindset. They see us as evil, and they are willing to give up their lives and the lives of their children to see our way of life destroyed. They have a seventh century mentality and understand only one thing...force. We have no choice but to deal with them on their level. <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="red">I agree completely. that's why I'm angry that Bush has given bin laden and al Qaeda strength, emboldened their cause, and their recruitment ability. Also the reason why I'm angry that bush has left our borders wide open, and we will now have thousands of crooked Mexican truck drivers on our highways everyday, possibly full of al Qaeda terrorists. That's why I'm angry that UAE is still running our ports, thanks to Bush. I thought your thread was about Amahdinejad speaking at Columbia University? He isn't the one who says we must convert to Islam, or be killed in his jihad. </font color>

[ QUOTE ]
We were discussing what possible reason a militant muslim would have to personally visit the site where his kind committed a huge criminal act against innocent Americans. <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="red">His kind? As I said, you are lumping all Muslims in with those who attacked us on 9/11. Although we were the ones who propped up Saddam, that is your party did, financed their (Iraq) war against Iran, killing many Iraniansm you lump Iran in with al Qaeda? Sorry, that makes no sense at all. The only countries that we know for sure that have supported al Qaeda are Saudi Arabia, and the United Arab Emirents, you know, the ones Bush holds hands with, and give out port contracts away to, the bin Ladens, the family he swiftly flew out of America on 9/11, the family that bailed him out of his last failed oil deal? </font color>

[ QUOTE ]
<font color="red">do you think that a college should have to be censored by the Bush administration, too? </font color> <font color="blue">Changing the subject? </font color> <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="red">Aren't you the one who is doing that? Your post was about the president of Iran being given a platform here in our country, wasn't it? </font color>

[ QUOTE ]
<font color="blue">OK, let's put it in terms you might be able to understand. <font color="red">Aren't you the one who just wrote "It's so sad that you think anyone who doesn't think the way you do must be stupid." Let's get one thing straight, Steve. when you righties deny facts, proven facts, which have been accepted as facts by a vast number of investigators, journalists, foreign operatives, and former CIA, counter Terrorists Operatives, and our own independent GSA director, the only truly independent government Agency that reports to the Congress, I am sure that I sound condecending when I am completely bowled over by your continuous denial of those same proven facts. That doesn't mean I think you are stupid, but I do think that you accept the administration's version of everything without doing your own studies, or even allowing a glimmer of doubt regarding Bush, and his lies. Time after time, that has been the case. Further, I'm no more condescending than you, Deeman, Wally, Ed, or any of the other righties on here. Atleast I give links to government sights, and articles and books by experts to prove my point. </font color> Suppose you and Bin Laden could sit down one-on-one and talk. What would you say to him that you believe would make him change his feelings about Americans? I don't think you can answer that question, because it would be impossible. So what point is there in trying to "establish dialogue"? You might as well be serving tea and cookies...you would accomplish exactly the same thing! </font color> <font color="red"> </font color> Again, you are cmpletely twisting my former statements. I have always maintained that al Qaeda, bin Laden, and all terrorists around the world who perform suicide bombings, should be eliminated. I have alwasy stated that Bush failed to finish off al Qaeda when he had the chance and the whole world behind him to do so, and that his quest for the oil in Iraq, and his grudge for Saddam;'s attempted assasination of his father, were the reasons why he went instqead into Iraq, creating false reasons to do so, with his many many lies to the world. I have read many books about what happened during the lead ups, and I am convinced that was the case, and also that Cheney, and his ties to the American Oil corporations, playe a huge role, along with the many neocons from the American Enterprise Institute, and organization almost entirely funded by Military contractors, and Jewish organizations invested in the Industrial Military Complex. To suggest that people who have been against the mess in Iraq, which took our attention away from smashing al Qaeda in Afghanistan, prefer serving terrorists tea and cookies, is about as condescending a statement as I have ever read. <hr /></blockquote>


[ QUOTE ]
<font color="blue">WHOA, now! When the politicians were voicing support of the war, you got on here and argued that the generals on the ground in Iraq were the ones we should be listening to. Now one comes along that doesn't share your views, and now all Generals are liars??? </font color> <font color="red"> </font color> <font color="red">That's right, when Bush was firing all those Generals who said he was doing the wrong thing, and refusing to heed their warnings at the outset, I said he wasn't listening to expert opinion, and he wasn't. It's pretty obvious his M.O. throughout, has been to get rid of anyone and everyone who didn't agree with his policies. He has done that throughout, so doubting Partaeus will be honest, is much like wondering what kind of Attorney Generals we have left in our Department Of Justice System, only loyal bushies, and hence, only loyal Generals, this president only hires people who do his dirty work, and don't expose his failures. then, once they're exposed for being dishonet with the American People, and their incompetence becomes evident,, they get the Medal Of Freedom before they get axed. Franks, Bremer, and Tenent. I'm sure that Pace, Gates, Rumsfeld and Gonzales will get theirs also, maybe even Libby! </font color> <hr /></blockquote>

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<font color="blue">If some goon wants to go over there and fight, and someone is willing to pay him to do it, it doesn't bother me a bit. </font color> <font color="red">Someone? that's good, how bout all of us, we're paying for it, Steve, and now, more billions to bribe others to go, to the tune of twenty thousand dollars each. At what point do you righties wake up to the vast amount of money Bush has wasted in Iraq? How about the missing legs, arms brains, and people, Americans, who he lied to to get them in there? How long must this go on? Until we're broke, our Army is broken? Our kids owe a hundred thousand each to pay for it later? since you're so interested in killing those who are determined to wipe us out, why aren't you angrey that bush has allowed those people to grow, expand all over the world, and bin Laden is still their leader? </font color> <hr /></blockquote>

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<font color="blue">This is nothing new. Throughout our history, our economy has always done well in wartime. Wars require equipment and manpower, and neither comes free. </font color> <font color="red">So you're OK with that huh? It's fine to make up false reasons to go to war, to benefit the Military Industrial Complex, and the Corporate Fascist Pigs who contribute to the Republicans so they will get a chance to make money off wars, while our kids die to make them rich? And those who don't go to fight, get to pay off all the debt Republicans run up cutting taxes for their rich friends, during war time, and borrowing from foreing countries to keep the war rolling? That is what bush is doing. You're fine with that? </font color> <hr /></blockquote>

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<font color="blue">Again, you dont like the message so shoot the messenger. If you're referring to Patreaus, how come his version has been disputed by the only independent investigative Agency we have, along with other government Agencies? When are you going to account for the fact that no government Agency, supports Patraeus or Bush's claims? Only Bush, the patreaus, Gates, very reluctantly, to say the least, and the Pentagon, and all other agencies say he's made everything worse, and there is no military solution, IOW, our troops are dying for nothing. </font color> <hr /></blockquote>

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<font color="red">Now, Bush is arming terrorists. Isn't that just how al Qaeda, and the Talliban, were both launched? Our people are being killed by the same bombs and guns that Reagan, Bush Sr. and Bush Jr. have been spreading all over the Middle East for decades. Is there any space between tea and cookies, and spreading arms throughout the most unsettled, volital region in the world for two decades?
</font color> <font color="blue">Now you're rambling to the point where I'm not even sure what point you are trying to make...not that it really matters. I've wasted too much time on this as it is.

</font color> <font color="red">I think you know what point I'm making, Steve, you just don't have any justification for their actions, and rather than admit that, you'd prefer to smear my point, since you have no reasonable explanation, or justification for the Republican Policies which put us into the trick bag we're in right now. I've heard you righties blame Bill Clinton for everything that REagan and Bush Sr, did for years. I ahve no doubt you'll now blame Hillary, once she gets into office, for bungling the mess in Iraq. Plainly speaking, I don't find people from the neocon right to be at all reasonable, or logical, nor do they seem to have any handle on reality, or willing to accept accountability for their own blunders, speaking purely from my own perspective, that is. Further, George bush is repulsive, and should be impeached, along with Dick cheney, and Condolezza Rice. They all lied to this country, and the world, and I can prove it, and so can many many others.</font color> <hr /></blockquote>

DickLeonard
09-25-2007, 08:09 AM
Pooltchr 911 was our fault OBL only problem with us is that we have troops stationed in Saudia Arabia. Infidels occupying Sacred Ground, then we are selling 20 Billion in War Supplies thereby insuring that our forces will be permanently stationed there. Pissing OBL off more, guaranteeing another attack thereby allowing GWB to declare himself President for Life. When that happens remember you read it here.

Saudi Arabia was just below Iraq on the list of Worst Regimes in the World and were propping it up instead overthrowing it according to the Bush Doctrine. Lets Bring Democrazy to the Middle East. Yeah Right.####

Gayle in MD
09-26-2007, 08:32 AM
Awe, Deeman, first you make me proud of you, then you have to ruin it with the usual right wing rhetoric which uses the method of taking everything to an opposite extreme, in order to degrade any opinions which are based on freedom of speech.

That is how Bushies have demonized opposoing opinions, throughout. They accuse others of it, but they are the true masters of it, hence, anyone who doesn't support Bush's War, is accused of loving the terrorists. Anyone who seeks to remove our troops from a militarily unwinnable war, which has benefitted Iran, al Qaeda, and the military industrial complex, but not America's best interests, is not supporting the troops.

Your leader is obviously delusional. He thinks he will be a plus for his party in the coming elections. That should prove to you he isn't playing with a full deck!

To believe in freedon of speech, diplomacy, treaty agreements, personal rights and freedoms, and also, to allow the President of Iran the right to make a complete fool of himself, does not mean that those who approve of allowing a university to invite whomever they wish to their forum are not aware of just whom and what he is.

I am sick of the false bravado of the Republican Party. Duncun Hunter was the real jerk in all of this, and only Ahmadinejad matched his ignorance. Republicans and Bush refuse to stand up for our troops, and the hungry children in our country, but they have the audacity to use a non issue to waste time on ridiculous congressional measure to continue to mask our dire circumstances in Iraq, with cheap political tricks. Disgusting. As usual, they blow everything completely out of porportion. Words, unlike bombs, don't kill.

Gayle in Md.

Gayle in Md.

Gayle in MD
09-26-2007, 09:31 AM
Dick,
I have always believed that there is an agreement between Saudi Arabia, and the Bush family, that there will not be another al Qaeda attack until Little Bushy leaves office. bin Laden's relatives bought George Bush out of his last failed oil company. He flew them out of our country to protect them after 9/11. Normal investigative proceedures would have been to haul them in for questioning, and hold them hostage until bin Laden gave himself up.

The powerful Isreal Lobby, and Jewish owned American press, and the neocons, all played a huge role in our occupation of Iraq.

Regardless of pointless insults, the right never acknowledges the reports of our own 16 national security, and intelligence estimates on all the damage the neocon/Bush foreign policies, this occupation in Iraq, have caused to our safety here at home, and our great loss of respect in the world. Have you ever heard even one on the right side of this board ever acknowledge that?

Bush has failed to smash al Qaeda, or cut off the head of the snake, bin Laden, and Saudi Arabia is right in there sending support to our enemies in Iraq, along with Iran. Saudi Arabia has screwed over us in the past, and the UAE who now operates our ports, STILL, even though they refused to cooperate with us when we tried to get them to help us after 9/11, they continued to allow shipment of arms by terrorists.

I am disgusted by those Republicans, who are like drivers who can't make up their minds which lane on the highway is going to allow them to jump ahead in the traffic, people like Specter, and John Warner, and the others who said they would vote with the Democrats, but then swallowed up the bs the White House put out that the capital was going to be attacked, and so they backed down from voting against the illegal wire taps. Unbelievable! Voted against more money for our troops, for medicals and voted against forcing Bush to provide them with a reasonable amount of time at home.

Republicans spend like drunken sailors, and the right calls them democrats! Bush Sr. shrunk the size of our army, and Republicans blame Clinton. Reagan and Bush Sr. propped up the Talliban, sent arms to terrorists, propped up Saddam, and left the Kurds to be slaughtered, and the right says Democrats are cut and run, and are not capable of protecting us from terrorist attacks. Bush had three months, ( some say long than that!) to prevent 9/11, but it's just a coincidence that the neocons stated that they couldn't get our country behind the idea of occupying Iraq, until another terrorist attack happened. So, the right, blames it all on Clinton. Reagan never responded to the slaughter of 246 marines, but the right says Clinton didn't do anything. The Cole, happened just before Bush crashed the White House. Our Intelligence AGencies warned Clinton not to do anything until they could prove for sure who was responsible. That took three months, and just bwefore Bush took office, Clinton wanted to handle it before he left office, and Bush talked him out of it, promising he'd take care of it. He never did.

It was Clinton's Desert Fox campaign that destroyed what was left of Saddam's WMD's and biological labs, but Bush had to resurrect them in order to go for the oil. Here's a man who cuts funds for troops, cuts funds for hungry kids, cuts funds for his own education program, and we're supposed to believe that his vast humanitarian interests were behind his illegal occupation of Iraq, even after Cheney created a glossy fifth avenue styled national intelligence estimate report, using his secret loyal Bushy people inserted into the C.I.A., replete with cartoons of biological labs in front of the U.N., delivered by powell, which didn't exist.

but those of us who have been against the war, are supposed to be for the terrorists. If there are any men who should be blocked from the 9/11 ground zero sight, it is George Bush, Dick Cheney, and Guiliani, who didn't even care enough to show up for his promised attendence on the 9/11 commission, but chose to spend his time parlaying the entire tragedy, into money in his pocket from his speaking engagements!

Republicans are disgusting!

Dick, we can only hope the Democrats will be true to form, and that they will be able to restore honor to the White House, rescue the poor and the hungry, and save our troops from the pointless slaughter in the Iraqi civil war.

Love,
Gayle

Gayle in MD
09-26-2007, 09:43 AM
I forgot to add, that obviously, it had also worked with Saddam, the sanctions had worked, hence his infrastructure, WMD's and biological labs, which had been destroyed by Desert Fox, were non existent, just as the intelligence, which was omitted from the build up to the war, had suggested. Fake documents, false testimony from laughable people like Chalabi, and others, old photos, and secret loyal Bushies, installed for the purpose of creating fake intelligenc, hand picked by Cheney and installed into our intelligence agencies when he couldn't get the intelligence they wanted to justify this occupation, and outdated statements, from a decade before, were exaggerated and presented to the Congress in order to create enough fear to justify their hidden agenda, occupation of Iraq, for oil contracts.

All this is documented. The right, however, prefers to ignore it, their focus is on spelling errors, speeches, and advertising ads! We can trust them to stay on top of things and protect us.... /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif Bush had months to stop 9/11. Years to get bin Laden. Saddam was not a threat. Bottom line, Bush screwed up on all fronts.

Gayle in Md.