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pooltchr
09-28-2007, 05:48 PM
Now she wants to give $5000 to every new born kid in the country...regardless of their legal status here. Paying women to have babies? Hasn't this been tried before. Wasn't it a dismal failure?
I doesn't matter...since the government doesn't produce any money, I guess they will just have to take it from you and me so they can give it away to someone else.
And you wonder why I think she is a Socialist!
/ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
Steve

wolfdancer
09-28-2007, 06:35 PM
It isn't exactly an original idea
How about the part about owing $27,000 as soon as you see daylight? I think the idea has some merit...but don't see how it can be financed...and since Bush will veto the proposed children's health bill...shoot, many of them won't make it out of childhood...think of the savings there...
"I think it's a wonderful idea," said Rep. Stephanie Stubbs Jones, an Ohio Democrat who attended the event and has already endorsed Clinton. "Every child born in the United States today owes $27,000 on the national debt, why not let them come get $5,000 to grow until their 18?"

Britain launched a similar program in January 2005, handing out vouchers worth hundreds of dollars each to parents with children born after Sept. 1, 2002.

Earlier this month, Time magazine proposed a $5,000 baby bond program.
Say , you don't have a "thing" for Hillary now, do you?
I admit that she's an intelligent, attractive woman, who has struggled to keep her own marriage work, which might make her vulnerable, and tempting...but do you really want to cross party lines, and take a walk on the wild side?

Gayle in MD
09-30-2007, 10:43 AM
LMAO! Beautiful! bush just asked for over 100 billion for his lising fiasco in Iraq, and he's focused on Hillary!

Here's a man who voted for the biggest spender and borrowing in history, twice, and he's scratching around for dirt on Hillary's spending, when she isn't even in the oval office!
/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Nothing partisan about that! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

wolfdancer
09-30-2007, 02:15 PM
Nothing !!! /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

pooltchr
09-30-2007, 04:59 PM
At least GW is spending the money on something. Hillery just wants to give it away! Multiply 5 grand by the number of children born in this country every year, legal and illegal, and she is talking about a pretty fair amount of OUR money.
I already raised my kids, paid for their school myself. I don't understand why I would want to contribute to everybody else's kids finances. And I don't understand why you would either....it's the purest form of redistribution of wealth I have ever seen...the foundation of socialism! /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Steve

Gayle in MD
10-01-2007, 09:18 AM
What do you call huge subsidies for big oil?

Bush cuts taxes, and then borrows the money from China to pay for them. Imposes tax breaks, that give millionaires hundreds of thousands back, and a family of four gets $1,200?

Big oil gets subsidies, then turns around and gouges all of us at the pumps?

Bush has borrowed more money than all previous presidents put together, and you're complaining about kids who will be burried in debt the day they are born, thanks to your boy Bush, getting any of your tax dollars?

Crime, and poverty, go hand and hand, and education is the route out of poverty. Children who are well fed, and healthy, do well in school, and "our childrens do learn"...or is it, "is our children learning?" A nation without hungry, ill children, becomes a wealthier, healthier nation, with less crime, and more responsible, educated citizens.


But then, Republicans will provide you with more bombs, more
killing, more illegal occupations, more debt, and more social unrest through their socially divisive policies. They cut your taxes, and spend like drunken sailors, create huge debt, and redistribute wealth upwards. They launch wars, and create debt, then throw up their hands and leave it all to the next guy to solve the problems they create. All the while they preach how government is the problem, then they get into office and prove it.

Since you're so worried about how this country spends our money, how about 12 billion dollars a month? Is that even on your radar? How about all the debt Bush has acrued? Huge trade deficits? Huge National deficits? For a guy who's so concerned about sick and hungry kids getting a some financial help, your interests seem slightly off the mark, to say the least.

Gayle in Md.

eg8r
10-01-2007, 10:25 AM
Yeah I saw this and was disgusted.

eg8r

Drop1
10-01-2007, 12:16 PM
Don't worry,it ain't going to happen. But since twenty percent of all jobs,are connected to the government,in one way or another,maybe we should raise taxes a flat fifteen percent on income,with no deductions. I think Bush has shown,the less you tax,and the more you borrow,which is really a tax delayed,the more the quality of life for all declines.

Gayle in MD
10-01-2007, 12:42 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I think Bush has shown,the less you tax,and the more you borrow,which is really a tax delayed,the more the quality of life for all declines. <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="red">That is so true, friend, and those who must pay for his huge deficits, are not even in a position to defend themselves at this time, since they aren't adults, and also if they have Republican parents, their parents prefer taking their own little tax cuts on investments, now, at their children's expense, later, hence, they're screwing over their own kids and grand kids. Gee, Republicans must be great parents. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif They're faith based, you know. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif </font color>

Gayle in Md.

Drop1
10-01-2007, 12:59 PM
Faith based; I had no idea. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Gayle in MD
10-01-2007, 01:22 PM
/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

pooltchr
10-01-2007, 08:01 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> how about 12 billion dollars a month?

Gayle in Md.

<hr /></blockquote>

OK Gayle, you win. Let's just cut off all the funding for the military, and they will have no choice but to pull out immediately. No more spending a frigging dime on the war after October. Iran will take over Iraq. The Talliban will own Afganistan, the middle east will be total chaos, gas for your boat will be at $8 a gallon, but at least we won't have to continue to listen to you whine about how much the war is costing.
But you think it's ok for Hillery to promise every new born child in this country will start out with 5 grand in the bank, courtesy of the taxpayers. And that program won't end in a year or two years or 5 years...it will be ongoing! It amounts to a permanent tax increase. Not to build the military back up, not to build up the country's infrastructure, but just to give every kid a nice bank account. Remember that the next time you see a family of 6 shopping at Wal-mart...those 4 kids are worth $20,000! And you and I gave it to them.
Yeah, that's a good plan! /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
Steve

DickLeonard
10-02-2007, 07:35 AM
Pooltchr I read as soon as she finds the Missing thirteen Billion lost in Iraq that should cover the cost of that program. I believe that Haliburton got that container that is why they moved their base to the United Arab Emirate.

Funny how people get so upset over a program for the poor and show no anger towards the 3 trillion this adm buried in Iraq. ####

DickLeonard
10-02-2007, 07:42 AM
eg8r I hope that State College is there when its time for your kids to go to College. ####

Sid_Vicious
10-02-2007, 08:02 AM
Ain't that the damdest thing? sid

Gayle in MD
10-02-2007, 08:13 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Funny how people get so upset over a program for the poor and show no anger towards the 3 trillion this adm buried in Iraq. ####

<hr /></blockquote>


Bingo! What can you say about a bunch of ideologs who approve being stolen from, under false pretenses, and watching their money being flushed down the drain of corruption and incompetence, in the midst of an all out fiasco which is killing hundreds of thousands, but their the first to take a stand against money spent for humanitarian purposes. I'd like to ask Georg Bush, "Is our children hungry? Is they eating? Our childrens do need to eat!" /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

eg8r
10-02-2007, 08:38 AM
[ QUOTE ]
What can you say about a bunch of ideologs who approve being stolen from <hr /></blockquote> You sure pulled that out of your rear. LOL, when you start out blatantly lying there is no reason to continue reading.

I hope for Gayle's family that she is not this dishonest with them.

eg8r

Gayle in MD
10-02-2007, 08:48 AM
[ QUOTE ]
<font color="red">Poster: pooltchr
Subject: Re: Hillery and YOUR money


Quote Gayle in MD:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
how about 12 billion dollars a month?

Gayle in Md.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



OK Gayle, you win. Let's just cut off all the funding for the military, and they will have no choice but to pull out immediately. <font color="blue">Americans would like to see the Democrats cut off the funding, in fact, quite a large percent of Americans. Unfortunately, Bush now has us between a rock and a hard place, only he isn't satisfied with the present disaster, he's going to blow up the whole Middle East, and attack Iran. I'm sure you approve, since you are all for not talking with our enemies, but jumping for the boms instead. </font color> No more spending a frigging dime on the war after October. <font color="blue">Unfortunately estimates are that it would take a year to safely get our troops out of Iraq, and Democrats won't put them in worse danger than Bush has already put them in, by abruptly cutting the funds. Bush, has us stuck in the sand, and I've been saying that for years. This is the Bush/Republican fiasco, and it's exhorbitant costs will have a negative impact on our country, our childrens' lives, and our strength as a nation, for decades to come, and it was all for nothing! No WMD's, No al Qaeda connection, No cheaper oil, and no good solutions. Now go out and vote Republican again, just remember who put us into this mess when you do. </font color> Iran will take over Iraq. <font color="blue">Possibly, and Bush was warned about that before he made this idiotic policy, in the first place. He refused to listen. But then, you love that in a leader, right? </font color> The Talliban will own Afganistan, <font color="blue">The Talliban was created by Republicans, Reagan, and Bush Sr., remember....as was Saddam. Good leadership? </font color> the middle east will be total chaos, <font color="blue">The middle east is already total chaos, and worsening every day. Who made this mess? Who IMPOSED, his wishes, with lies, upon the entire nation, including the Congress. The Congress did not give Bush permission to invade and occupy Iraq. </font color> gas for your boat will be at $8 a gallon, <font color="blue">That's OK, I've got plenty of money. Too bad people didn't listen to Jimmy Carter, when he tried to get this country serious about facing our future threat if we did not address our oil dependency on the middle east. We could be at the top of a whole new industrial revolution, and free of foreign oil dependency right now, if we could have avoided 26 years of Republican lies and pay offs to corporate fascist pigs like the CEO's of the Oil Industry. The great Prick Cheney's of the world that you've been voting for all your life. </font color> but at least we won't have to continue to listen to you whine about how much the war is costing. <font color="blue">Yeah, me and the entire country, only the right wing nuts don't give a damn about lies, corruption and waste. </font color>
But you think it's ok for Hillery to promise every new born child in this country will start out with 5 grand in the bank, courtesy of the taxpayers. <font color="blue">I look at it as a down payment on the huge debt they will inherit from Republican waste and corruption, Republican lies and incompetence, the Republican Military Industrial Complex, and a Republican Faith Based failing program of relying on Churches, and penny wise, pound foolish right wing Corporate Fascist pigs. Yeah, I'm all for it. I'd prefer to see us sue Halliburton for all the money they have stolen from us in Iraq, and New Orleans, and give it to the next generation, which the Republicans have burried in debt with their spending spree, and corruption. </font color> And that program won't end in a year or two years or 5 years...it will be ongoing! <font color="blue">How long do you think it's going to take those kids to pay for the Bush/Cheney/Republican/mass robery? </font color> It amounts to a permanent tax increase. <font color="blue">OMG, heaven forbid!!! Lets just borrow more money!!! Anything but pay taxes to get us out of this mess and feed our "Food Challenged" kids. Oh no, I wouldn't think of tampering with your measly Republican tax cuts!!! </font color> Not to build the military back up, <font color="blue">Bush Sr. reduced the military, when the cold war ended, Bush Jr. broke the Army. Ronald Reagan and Bush Sr. set Saddam up in power, and totally created the Talliban. </font color> not to build up the country's infrastructure, <font color="blue">Yeah, you've been so worried about that while you've been scruffing up those tax cuts, paid for by China. </font color> but just to give every kid a nice bank account. <font color="blue">Believe me, that last thing our future generations are going to get from Republican Policies, is a nice fat bank account! </font color> Remember that the next time you see a family of 6 shopping at Wal-mart...those 4 kids are worth $20,000! And you and I gave it to them.
Yeah, that's a good plan! <font color="blue">You are the last person in the world I would consult on the issue of determining a good plan, believe me. When it comes to a good plan, a Republican is worthless.</font color>
Steve

</font color> <hr /></blockquote>

DickLeonard
10-02-2007, 08:53 AM
eg8r What lies? Bush speaks with forked tongue. Gayle straight shooter. Homer the ape been in the jungle way to long.#####

Gayle in MD
10-02-2007, 09:24 AM
Steve wrote... [ QUOTE ]
At least GW is spending the money on something. <hr /></blockquote>

Can you believe this statement? Spend our money on killing people, fine, but don't spend it on our own kids. Spend it on disrupting the world, racking up enemies, supporting loss of life in some other country's civil war, paying off billionaire CEO's, shipping it in cash to be distributed from the back of pick up trucks to Iraqis, and stolen by Halliburton, but just don't give any of their tax dollars to American Kids!



Steve would rather George Bush waste our money in Iraq, than see any of it go to American children. Trillions down the drain, which ultimately empowered and emboldened ALL of our enemies, further destablized the most volital region in the world, ruined our reputation, increased our dangerous threats here on our shores, and what are they bitching about? American kids, getting any of their tax dollars! George Bush subsidizes Oil, invites illegals to come on over, pays for his tax cuts with borrowed money, from a communist country, yet, blocks any competitive relief for pharmaceiticals, hands out no bid contracts to his cronies, refuses to give our troops rest, proper training and equipment, and the right is outraged over American kids getting a piece of the pie!!!

It won't make a dent on the debt Bush will leave to them. But hell, we'll all be blown off the face of the earth by then anyway. He won't have to worry about historians saying anything, then.

Love,
Gayle

Wally_in_Cincy
10-02-2007, 09:38 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> . I'd like to ask Georg Bush, "Is our children hungry? Is they eating? Our childrens do need to eat!" /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif <hr /></blockquote>

How about this novel concept: parents provide food for their own children, not the government. I know it will be hard to grasp, just think it through.

eg8r
10-02-2007, 10:56 AM
[ QUOTE ]
eg8r What lies? <hr /></blockquote> The lie was in the quote? Come on people surely you don't make everything in your life this hard, do you? As far as Gayle shooting straight, you must be a socialist liberal to believe that crap.

eg8r

Gayle in MD
10-02-2007, 12:31 PM
Mark Green| BIO | I'M A FAN OF THIS BLOGGER
"Baby Bonds" is a Big Idea
Posted October 2, 2007 | 11:37 AM (EST)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Read More: 2008 election, Democratic Presidential candidate, Hillary baby bonds, Hillary Clinton, Breaking Politics News



Senator Clinton's suggestion last week that we create "Baby Bonds" is a good, big idea which is already working in Great Britain--and would work here. These $5,000 bonds for newborns would be a starter kit for success, a kind of early IRA helping children of all income brackets go to college, buy a house, invest in the market, or the like.

Predictably, thrifty right-wingers who've never complained about W's excesses immediately started yelling about its cost and its supposed similarity to McGovern's $1,000 "Demogrants" to all in 1972, but this proposal deserves substantive debate. It shouldn't get buried in a presidential race filled, so far, with endless media thumb-sucking about polls and money. The national, economic and individual benefits of Baby Bonds are too significant to ignore:



*Great Britain's "Child Trust Funds": Though the British program only began in 2005 for children born after Sept. 1, 2002, administrators are already seeing unprecedented jumps in savings rates in poor families. The head of one of the largest fund providers tells how one family deposited 30 baptism checks along with their bond. If we followed the UK's program, the government would provide parents with vouchers or bonds to start a child savings account for each baby. Parents could then decide how to manage these long-term savings accounts or have the government manage them.

Families would be encouraged to add to these tax-free accounts with additional vouchers available to low-income families who can not make the same contributions that wealthy families can as a child grows. Savings could only be withdrawn only when a child turns 18. In order to protect low-income families and the usefulness of Baby Bonds, households will not become ineligible for any tax credits they may otherwise receive when a child turns 18 and claims the funds. (The New Democracy Project, a non-profit I head, co-published a similar proposal last year as part of a 40-point "Democracy Protection Act." You can read it here.)


Fiscal &amp; Economic Implications: With 4 million newborns annually, this proposal could cost some $20 billion a year. When Republicans need to find that much and more for subsidies to an oil industry making record profits or a war costing $10 billion a month or a drug prescription benefit for seniors, no problemo. Reagan-Bush 41's deficit financing in effect stole from Bill Clinton's budget and Bush 43 is stealing from (perhaps) Hillary Clinton's budget--but why should Republican administrations have all the fun? Why can't Democrats too propose new spending, especially since pay-as-you-go principles can still achieve balanced budgets. That is, just as a cigarette tax would have entirely funded the SCHIP expansion, a budget bill could deduct $20 billion from fossil fuel subsidies and transfer it to all newborns--or perhaps only those born to families with, say, under $1 million in net assets (exclusive of homeownership).

Much like the 1944 G.I. Bill, which invested in millions of veterans by helping them attend college or buy a house, Baby Bonds will ultimately build a stronger American economy and society. (Time's Richard Stengel upped the ante when he proposed a similar program that tied access to the bond to a year of national or military service.) Children participating in financial decisions as they approach 18 will likely pay more attention to the market and their government--one becomes more involved if one's own money is at stake. And since the American savings rate in 2006 went negative for the first time since the late 1940s, a savings account will naturally teach children to save from a young age, encouraging life-long financial planning.


Equal Opportunity means Economic Opportunity: In the past 30 years, real median income has remained flat while the top 1% has seen their income and wealth double. Authors like Kevin Phillips in his 2002 Wealth and Democracy and Robert Reich this month in Supercapitalism have documented the cavernous and growing divide between the rich and everyone else in our winner-take-all economy.

One way to increase opportunity for middle-class families is to allow their children to enjoy the magic of compound interest just as wealthier offspring do. This isn't about making everyone rich or letting young adults go on graduation trips and buy big flat-panel TVs; it's about partially leveling the playing field and returning to the meritocracy that has long defined our democracy. Take it from author and self-made multi-millionaire Peter Barnes: "I was lucky enough to have parents who paid for my education at Harvard, helped me purchase my first home and invested in my first startup. Now I've established trusts funds for my sons to do similar things. But what about the millions of American children who aren't as fortunate as mine?"


Since all sides of the political spectrum believe in economic opportunity, let's help 18-year-olds with a modest nest egg to start their adult lives. In 2005, 1 in 5 American families had zero or negative net wealth. America has the steepest inequality of any Western economy. If we wisely help those at the sunset of our lives with Social Security and Medicare, how about at the dawn of our lives with Baby Bonds?

<font color="red">How bout this, Wally, how bout you tell us how many kids YOU have raised, and how much you know about what middle income, hard working young couples are facing right now, trying to pay their bills, and pay for health care for their kids, and put food on the table, in a country where the President hasn't done a damned thing but spend, borrow, shift all the wealth advantage to the wealthy, who don't pay half of what they owe in taxes in the first place, and then leave the whole economic mess here, and the damned Bush War in Iraq, for the next generation, and the next president to deal with. How about you read some books about cutting taxes during war time, and what happens to a country that is wrought with vast economic inequality. How bout you study the graphs of where all the wealth has gone since Bush has been pretending to lead this country,Without Conscience.

Gayle in Md. </font color>

Deeman3
10-02-2007, 12:47 PM
Gayle,

You've sold me. Free healthcare for all, $5K for all new kids, illegal or not (heck, why be pikers, give 'em the whole $17,550 right away) great incentive to raise those low rates of unwed mother births, schools select the foods, abortions for all (do they get to keep the cash if the baby is killed before the third trimester?), God out of our lives replaced by Rap, Gay Marriage and little no prison for sex offenders, an equal distribution of the wealth, no vote left behind, PAC money with no limits, civil liberties to all those who would bomb and behead us, Congress and the UN knows what is best for us and the ACLU protecting all except the Christians.....all this and we still get to stay in iraq until 2013 minimum! GWB ~ HRC aaah, a mind meld, George and Hillary....

sign me up....

Gayle in MD
10-02-2007, 01:07 PM
/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Thanks, for such a well written, well reasoned response. I knew I could count on you to address the meat of the issue being discussed, without taking things to the ridiculous extreme, oh, and that's fetus, not baby, and unfortunately, people don't stop screwing, and screwing up, when they're screwing, when they don't have the means to feed their kids, or give them a decent shot at life. Also, I'm for life in prison for sex offenders, and the entire Bush Administration, /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif including the operatives they paid to torture innocent people.

George, though, could never get re-election, and in fact, the Republicans don't want to be seen with him, but that won't be hard, since he won't go anywhere unless his staff goes in and sweeps the location of all but the sheep, Bah Bah Bah. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

eg8r
10-02-2007, 01:20 PM
[ QUOTE ]
How bout this, how bout you tell us how many kids YOU have raised, and how much you know about what middle income, hard working young couples are facing right now, trying to pay their bills, and pay for health care for their kids, and put food on the table, ... <hr /></blockquote> Since you ask, I have 2 kids, I am in the middle class, my wife and I are a young hard working couple who pay our own bills and pay for the healthcare not already covered by my company. How is it? Sometimes tough sometimes easy.

[ QUOTE ]
How about you read some books about cutting taxes during war time, and what happens to a country that is wrought with vast economic inequality. How bout you study the graphs of where all the wealth has gone since Bush has been pretending to lead this country,Without Conscience. <hr /></blockquote> How about...No. I am not interested in reading your biased books that have a definite negative twist towards anything this administration has done with no real responsibility at telling the entire truth. Their incentive is FIRST AND FOREMOST to make more wealth for themselves so that they can take advantage of those filthy rich tax cuts.

eg8r

Bobbyrx
10-02-2007, 02:45 PM
"Parents could then decide how to manage these long-term savings accounts or have the government manage them" <font color="red">Isn't this what Bush wanted to do with Social Security but was called blasphemy by the Dems?? And where is the cut off. Surely people who make over a certain amount wouldn't qualify for the $5000.00 (you know, those people paying for the program) </font color>

Bobbyrx
10-02-2007, 02:47 PM
How did YOU get access to the 2008 Democratic platform?

Gayle in MD
10-02-2007, 03:06 PM
[ QUOTE ]
<font color="red">Isn't this what Bush wanted to do with Social Security but was called blasphemy by the Dems?? <font color="blue">No, it isn't. </font color> And where is the cut off. <font color="blue">It's not complete, it's an idea, at this point, not a bill. </font color> Surely people who make over a certain amount wouldn't qualify for the $5000.00 (you know, those people paying for the program) <font color="blue"> It has not been finalized, and the details have not been completed. </font color>



</font color> <hr /></blockquote>

Wally_in_Cincy
10-02-2007, 03:10 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr>
How bout this, Wally, how bout you tell us how many kids YOU have raised, and how much you know about what middle income, hard working young couples are facing right now,
<hr /></blockquote>

I raised a daughter and never asked for one red cent from the government. And it so happens I am middle-income and hard working. So I know plenty.



<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr>
<font color="red"> How about you read some books about cutting taxes during war time, </font color>



<hr /></blockquote>

That's a rather specialized area of literature. I'll look for some.

The fact is, after the tax cuts, revenues have gone up. How much tax do you thiink folks should pay? I think we still pay too much.

If you want to complain about Bush and Congress spending too much that's fine, but it's not just the war. I wish you would quit harping on that.

I agree they spend too much. At least I will admit when "my side" does something wrong.

DickLeonard
10-02-2007, 03:58 PM
Bobbyrx a little difference between a savings account than betting on the stock market.####

Deeman3
10-02-2007, 04:04 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bobbyrx:</font><hr> How did YOU get access to the 2008 Democratic platform? <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue"> I stayed at a Hoilday Inn last night! /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif</font color>

Bobbyrx
10-02-2007, 05:04 PM
How is it different? You get the choice of managing the money yourself or letting the government do it for you.

Bobbyrx
10-02-2007, 05:19 PM
No one said you had to put your social security in the stock market (although if you were smart you would). You could let the government manage it or manage it yourself, just like this proposal. I guess the main difference is that the Social Security money is money that you worked for and earned that the government forced you to pay. The $5,000 per child is money you didn't earn taken from other tax payers. So it's ok to control the money you didn't work for but you should have no say so over the money you worked for and earned but were forced to pay to the government to "invest" /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

pooltchr
10-02-2007, 06:17 PM
DeeMan,
Based on this reply, I believe Gayle may have thought you were serious.
I think she failed to notice the tongue planted firmly in the cheek when you wrote your post.
Steve

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Thanks, for such a well written, well reasoned response. I knew I could count on you to address the meat of the issue being discussed, without taking things to the ridiculous extreme, oh, and that's fetus, not baby, and unfortunately, people don't stop screwing, and screwing up, when they're screwing, when they don't have the means to feed their kids, or give them a decent shot at life. Also, I'm for life in prison for sex offenders, and the entire Bush Administration, /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif including the operatives they paid to torture innocent people.

George, though, could never get re-election, and in fact, the Republicans don't want to be seen with him, but that won't be hard, since he won't go anywhere unless his staff goes in and sweeps the location of all but the sheep, Bah Bah Bah. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Wally_in_Cincy
10-02-2007, 06:43 PM
Gayle,

The Bible says do not let bitterness take root ion your heart.

Sometimes you need to let it go

Philippians 4:8 (New International Version)


8Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things.

Wally_in_Cincy
10-02-2007, 06:46 PM
Bitterness: Weeding out the Poisonous Root.

Bitterness is that hateful, spiteful sourness in the heart that creeps in when you have been or think you have been, maliciously wronged. I looked up the word in a dictionary, and it was defined as a sharpness affecting the taste, the feelings or the mind. It comes from an old English word that meant "sharpness to the taste".


Recognising Bitterness
How does bitterness show itself ?- in at least three ways.
One kind of bitterness is directed against God. You can become bitter against God in the loss of a loved one, when a friend swindles you out of money, when the boss passes you over for a promotion you really deserve and gives it to someone else, or when your husband walks off and leaves you for another woman.

You are angry, and you say,"Lord, if you love me so much, why did this happen? If you answer prayer, why didn't you answer mine? Either you are not powerful enough, or you didn't care enough. Either way, I'm angry with you!"

A second kind of bitterness is against other people. It can be there in a child who decides to rebel against his parents, to run away from home because he believes they are unfair to him. It can be there in a wife who says,"I'll have a nervous breakdown if my husband keeps treating me like this, and I'll get even with him."

It might be a person who says,"OK, if I forgive them for what they did to me, that wouldn't be fair. They don't deserve to be forgiven. I'm going to carry this a little longer and maybe somehow along the way they'll see what it has done to me, and something will happen to them."

You and I cannot afford the luxury of holding on to bitterness and resentment against others, because it only becomes the root of other problems.

Your bitterness can also be directed against yourself, and show itself in an inability to forgive yourself, even though God has forgiven you. You carry that load until you say,"I deserve it, but I'm strong enough to take it, and I'll just carry this thing and deal with it myself." Self-centered pride latches onto your heart and you refuse the forgiveness of God and others.

This can also cause you to live in self-pity. You say,"OK, I deserve this. God's trying to punish me. I shouldn't have done this or that, and now I deserve what I am getting, and I'm just going to have to be a martyr and carry it." So you trudge along in life nursing bitter resentment and a grudge against God or someone else. You carry it until you make life miserable for yourself and everyone around you. Why ? Because you never dealt with your bitterness. The Bible says to watch out for such bitterness(He 12:15)

Wally_in_Cincy
10-02-2007, 06:49 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr>

How bout this, Wally, how bout you tell us how many kids YOU have raised, and how much you know about what middle income, <hr /></blockquote>

do you have a job?

wolfdancer
10-02-2007, 07:03 PM
How did YOU get access to the 2008 Democratic platform?



I stayed at a Hoilday Inn last night!
Just don't forget what happened to the Watergate plumbers

Wally_in_Cincy
10-02-2007, 07:08 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> How did YOU get access to the 2008 Democratic platform?



I stayed at a Hoilday Inn last night!
Just don't forget what happened to the Watergate plumbers <hr /></blockquote>

Hey wolfie

while i disagree with your politics, thank you for your (relative) civility

hey i ran 2 racks of 8-ball last night

does that give me any credibility?

i hear dubya can play some too /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

eg8r
10-03-2007, 08:25 AM
[ QUOTE ]
No one said you had to put your social security in the stock market (although if you were smart you would). You could let the government manage it or manage it yourself, just like this proposal. I guess the main difference is that the Social Security money is money that you worked for and earned that the government forced you to pay. <hr /></blockquote> Don't forget Bobby, Dick is probably already cashing in his SS checks. Dick has bought in to the lies of the left that the right is going to take away their precious SS. They don't care about anything but their little monthly check.

eg8r

eg8r
10-03-2007, 08:26 AM
[ QUOTE ]
not complete, it's an idea, at this point, not a bill. <hr /></blockquote> Are you suggesting we should wait until it becomes a bill to find out just how far they are willing to go with it?


[ QUOTE ]
It has not been finalized, and the details have not been completed.
<hr /></blockquote> It is going to be dumped just like her first healthcare flop.

eg8r

DickLeonard
10-03-2007, 08:35 AM
Bobbyrx that SS deal was being pushed by that lobbyist that the Reps don't want his name mentioned [jack abramhoff]shhhhh please. It would have meant a ton of bribes from everyone in the financial industry. Kickbacks,trillons for the Reps War Chest for years to come.

The major drawback was the Govt would have had to payback the Trillions that they have used to fund Wars. It is pretty hard to invest an IOU.

I can see it now, Mr Leonard you have 2 thousand in cash and 750 thousand in an IOU, we will charge you two thousand to manage your acct. If our legal dept can collect on your IOU we will take 1/3 of that amount. Of course our money comes out first. So in the year 2024 you should start to receive 28 dollars a month.

Thanks to the NRA I will spend that 28 dollars on bullets for my AK46 1/2.####

DickLeonard
10-03-2007, 08:58 AM
Eg8r I am sitting on a pile of CAASSSHHH as Minnesota Fats would have said. SS and my Union Pension. 5 educated daughters that can all stand on their own feet.

The Dr. did get her degrees at the Univ of Buffalo but she did her Post Doc. at Yale. One got her Pharmacy degree compliments of a Schenely Scholarship and her parents. One graduated from Newhouse at Syracuse. We were dumb we paid for that. The other two are successful with only partial College.####

Wally_in_Cincy
10-03-2007, 09:37 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DickLeonard:</font><hr> Eg8r I am sitting on a pile of CAASSSHHH as Minnesota Fats would have said. SS and my Union Pension. <hr /></blockquote>

So you're among the wealthy who "won life's lottery"? I think you need to be taxed more heavily.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DickLeonard:</font><hr> 5 educated daughters that can all stand on their own feet.

The Dr. did get her degrees at the Univ of Buffalo but she did her Post Doc. at Yale. One got her Pharmacy degree compliments of a Schenely Scholarship and her parents. One graduated from Newhouse at Syracuse. We were dumb we paid for that. The other two are successful with only partial College.#### <hr /></blockquote>

You did all this without a government handout? Hard to believe. Didn't Gayle tell you how hard it is for "working families" to raise kids?

DickLeonard
10-03-2007, 10:07 AM
Wally couldn't do that today, my granddaughter started Syracuse this year by the time she graduates she probably will have spent almost as much as my 5 daughters combined. When her sister starts next year her mother and father are free but with no money to spend.####

Gayle in MD
10-03-2007, 10:15 AM
No, it's not just the war, and it isn't just psending, it's borrowing, too. It's a deferred tax, to be paid later, by our kids, and it's costing us all interest, daily. I has severely damaged our security, and the value of our dollar has gone down, not up, since Bush has been in office. There is proof that wages for the Middle Class have gone flat, while income for the rich, has trippled. When you search for a book which explains the facts on Bushonomics, turn to the page on fascism, first.

Gayle in Md...your daughter lived with you? You can't address childrens daily eating habits, if you're not even present. Also, it's disappointing to think that as a parent, you would pooh pooh the value of understanding psychology, as a guide to parenting. All life amounts to managing people, and relationships, one way or another. Psychology is the only field which addresses that aim, and teaches the tools required for the greatest success. I dare say, it's gobbledegook worth studying.

Gayle in Md.

Gayle in MD
10-03-2007, 10:18 AM
Obviously, YOU failed to notice the smiley faces included in my response. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

eg8r
10-03-2007, 10:19 AM
[ QUOTE ]
There is proof that wages for the Middle Class have gone flat, while income for the rich, has trippled. <hr /></blockquote> Apples and oranges, but who are you to care about facts.

eg8r

Wally_in_Cincy
10-03-2007, 11:02 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Gayle in Md...your daughter lived with you? You can't address childrens daily eating habits, if you're not even present.
<hr /></blockquote>

Yes Gayle, she lived with me and her mother. Why would you think otherwise?

I did most of the grocery shopping and cooked dinner moct nights too. I guess that could be interpreted as addressing her daily eating habits. No food stamps either, although somebody did give us a block of that free cheese they passed out in the 80's.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Also, it's disappointing to think that as a parent, you would pooh pooh the value of understanding psychology, as a guide to parenting. All life amounts to managing people, and relationships, one way or another. Psychology is the only field which addresses that aim, and teaches the tools required for the greatest success. I dare say, it's gobbledegook worth studying.

Gayle in Md.

<hr /></blockquote>

Sorry, you don't have to be a psychologist to raise kids. Folks did it for thousands of years before Freud and Jung and Spock came along.

Wally_in_Cincy
10-03-2007, 11:04 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DickLeonard:</font><hr> Wally couldn't do that today, my granddaughter started Syracuse this year by the time she graduates she probably will have spent almost as much as my 5 daughters combined. When her sister starts next year her mother and father are free but with no money to spend.#### <hr /></blockquote>

Bush's fault no doubt.

If not for that dumb ole war the government could just write her parents a big fat check to pay for her college.

wolfdancer
10-03-2007, 11:10 AM
Bush's fault no doubt.
Wally, I never considered that....about the only thing he hasn't managed to screw up are wet dreams...but I'm sure he's working on it.

Gayle in MD
10-03-2007, 11:37 AM
FYI, I was speaking about the YOUNG families of today, just starting out. I don't know how old you are, but you would, I'm sure, hardly fit into that category. I think these are hard times for many young couples, and mid-life couples, with teen agers, and there will be harder times to come for them, when their kids reach college age.

I raised four children, but only one, our daughter, was ours, and the other three were my husbands orphaned brothers, who became motherless after my wonderful mother-in-law lost her life in a horrible automobile accident. His Dad was still living, but was much older than his mother, and turned to the bottle when he lost his wife, and died, later, of a broken heart. It was very tragic, but that was long, long ago.

They had had two families, three children, and after a nine year gap, three more, so Jim's little brothers, were very young when we married, just four, six, and seven and a half.

As for me, I have had a wonderful life, full of all the things that most of us treasure. My daughter, and my sons, are very close to us, and my son-in-law is everything a Mother hopes for, for her daughter, and as a bonus, we share our interest in gardening, and billiards. I consider my relationship with him quite special. We're all very close, much closer than most families, from what I see around me, and most of all, we enjoy one another tremendously, and live for the times we can share together.

I've been married to my hero, for forty-four years, forty-five, in February, and love him more everyday. We've had, as Scott Lee once put it, "a forty year love affair." I lost my youngest son two years ago, to cancer. He was only forty-seven. Our family has been able to pull together, and help one another through this great loss, but we have come a long way.

My daughter, is everything I wish I could be, and more. My little eight year old grand-daughter is the apple of our eyes, and our pride and joy.

If I died tomorrow, I couldn't have asked for any more love and happiness than I've already known in my life.

Fortunately, now, at sixty-two, I don't have to work, nor have I ever had to work, but I worked in our businesses throughout our married life, from home mostly, and also in other business endeavors of my own. The needs of my family always came first, though, and I was fortunate to be able to afford to have a choice about working.

I've never taken any kind of government assistance, but I certainly don't judge those who have had to do so. My daughter always attended private schools, and graduated with honors, from college. She stopped working to stay home with my grand-daughter, when she was born. I'm very proud of her for that. She loved her position, was right where she wanted to be, as far as her career was concerned, but said she wanted the same kind of home life for her daughter, that she had had, with a Mom at home.

So, no, I don't work, and my life is all about having the time, and enough money, to do those things I promised myself I would do, when I had the time, after my parenting, and financial obligations, had been met.

Gayle in Md., and lovin' it.

Gayle in MD
10-03-2007, 11:54 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Sorry, you don't have to be a psychologist to raise kids. Folks did it for thousands of years before Freud and Jung and Spock came along.
<hr /></blockquote>

Freud, Jung, and Spock are certainly not what I had in mind, however, I think people who understand the basics of human psychology, have additional parenting skills at their disposal, and not only for the purpose of parenting, but in other aspects of life, as well. For example, believing that it is right to impose your personal values as they apply to issues such as gay marriage, upon your children, is most certainly not the hallmark of a good parent, given they will be influenced by the their own generation, and place in time, not yours.

Gayle in Md.

SKennedy
10-03-2007, 11:57 AM
Gayle,
When I was 35 I considered that mid-life. I did so again at 40. I'm now 52 and am now only realizing that 52 is really mid-life!

Wally_in_Cincy
10-03-2007, 01:09 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr>

Fortunately, now, at sixty-two, I don't have to work, nor have I ever had to work, but I worked in our businesses throughout our married life, from home mostly, and also in other business endeavors of my own. The needs of my family always came first, though, and I was fortunate to be able to afford to have a choice about working.

I've never taken any kind of government assistance, <hr /></blockquote>

Well why don't you take your money and help all these poor working families and tell the government to leave their greedy paws off mine.

Gayle in MD
10-03-2007, 01:18 PM
Well from where I'm standing, you're just a teenager! /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

All I can say is this. Enjoy every moment you have, because the older you get, the faster those grains of sand slip through the hour glass.

Gayle in Md.

Gayle in MD
10-03-2007, 01:40 PM
Believe me when I tell you, the Government has taken plenty of my money over the years. I don't mind paying taxes to live in the best country in the world. When they spend it on an un-necessary war, and lie to all of us to do so, I get pissed!

When they spend it on secret oil deals, no good.

When they spend it by giving huge tax breaks to billionaires, no good.

When they spend it to keep our troops fighting in another country's civil war, over religious grudges, a country which has no loyalty to us, no good.

Then they spend it on a war for corporate profit, no good.

When they waste it with no bid contracts for their cronies, no good.

When they spend it on positioning themselves to exploit another country's resources, and under false pretenses, no good.

When they waste it on overlooking unfair trade practices, by China, so they can borrow money, and then leave it to our kids, and grand kids to pay for later, no good.

Charity begins at home. That's what I was taught, and that's how I was raised. If we got a new TV, we weren't allowed to turn it on until we took the old one to a poor family.

When we got new clothes, we weren't allowed to wear them until we cleaned out our closets, and found the same number of clothers to give away to someone who needed them.

We have hungry people, right here in our country, and they're not treated as well as we treat people on the other side of the world. New Orleans is still in shambles, and Bush is asking for more billions to re-build Iraq!

We're supposed to be over 8 trillion in debt, and we don't take care of our troops after they've been blown up.

I'd give anything to give the righties on here a tour of Walter Reed. They slapped some paint on the walls, and that was it! There's still rats and roaches everywhere. Brain damaged troops, are still left out figure out their medical paper work, and their transfers, without any help. They're miserably understaffed over there, and Bush's love of privatizing all things military, has led to corruption, and gouging of our tax dollars, with no benefit ot our troops. The war, has been privatized to greedy corporations, with connections to the administration, who are hurting our efforts, and stealing from us at the same time. You think they want this war to end when they're making billions on it? Do you really think they care about winning hearts and minds? Do you think that George Bush, cares about our troops, when he hasn't even followed up on that cess pool at Walter Reed? Or the Republican who block every opportunity to hold this administration to task for what they're dong to them?

I have my reasons, and they're good ones, why I am against Republican, and against this president. He is not a leader, and he is not a decent human being.

Gayle in Md.

wolfdancer
10-03-2007, 02:16 PM
That's why George was in that kindergarten reading to them kids on 9/11.....
it was part of a new program he was launching nationwide..to distract them, and make them forget their hunger.Unfortunately the day's events, put that idea on the back burner for awhile.

Gayle in MD
10-03-2007, 02:27 PM
No kidding! /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif I heard he was there to promote sex with goats! /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

SKennedy
10-03-2007, 04:23 PM
When I was 6 Christmas came about once per decade. Now it comes once a month!

Gayle in MD
10-03-2007, 07:22 PM
Yeah, tell me about it! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif Kick up those heels now, friend. Enjoy every minute. It's a long sleep when this is over.

Kudos on your kind efforts for your house guests. I knew there was something I liked about you. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif