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View Full Version : How many hours per day to become a pro...??



kormyer
09-28-2007, 05:58 PM
Hi, I'm new in this forum. im from Quebec so youll see a lot of mistake in my english, anyway... I was wandering, how many hours did a player has to pratice per day to become a pro. I know Jeanette lee has began to play at a older age (i thing 18) than many players. How did she became pro in 4-5 years?! This is amazing!

Vapros
09-30-2007, 12:23 AM
Since nobody else has answered, I will. There is no exact number of hours to practice to become a pro. Practice a lot and get some expert instruction, and buy some videos of the top players playing matches. When you can do all the things they do, consistently, you're ready - if you have the rest of the requirements. I'm referring to the attitude and the courage and some serious financing. Be aware that very few people are making a decent living playing pool, and it's expensive on the road.

I would recommend a more realistic goal for your game, but that's your business. Work to be the best local player, and keep your job. Have fun, improve, and keep eating regular.

wolfdancer
09-30-2007, 12:55 AM
There's an old saying in Golf...if you ain't shooting in the 70's by the end of your first year playing....you never will. Larry Nelson comes to mind...didn't play until he got out of the Army,didn't take any lessons and played by himself, and thought everybody shot in the 70's...He ended up winning th US Open and PGA
In pool, it's about the same....if you aren't beating all the local competition in a relatively short time...you probably weren't blessed with the real talent that it takes.
In an old pool book that I once had...the author wrote that there are 3 groups of players
C players are new to the game, or haven't put in the time and effort to improve.
B players are "students of the game" as Robert Byrne calls 'em...hard work and practice might move you from C to the B group......but if you weren't born with the "pool gene" from the gene pool....there's no way you can practice your way into the A, or pro level group (these groups are not the same as the BCA ratings...A "B" player might be the best in the area, but the pool excellence scale is logarithmic.
You might not agree with that...but I have seen new players come into the pool room for the first time, and within a few months, are beating players with years of experience, and seen decent players practice for hours every day with little, if any, improvement.
I think we all know, deep inside....if we have the talent to master the sport that we are interested in.

1Time
09-30-2007, 04:23 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> There's an old saying in Golf...if you ain't shooting in the 70's by the end of your first year playing....you never will. Larry Nelson comes to mind...didn't play until he got out of the Army,didn't take any lessons and played by himself, and thought everybody shot in the 70's...He ended up winning th US Open and PGA
In pool, it's about the same....if you aren't beating all the local competition in a relatively short time...you probably weren't blessed with the real talent that it takes.
In an old pool book that I once had...the author wrote that there are 3 groups of players
C players are new to the game, or haven't put in the time and effort to improve.
B players are "students of the game" as Robert Byrne calls 'em...hard work and practice might move you from C to the B group......but if you weren't born with the "pool gene" from the gene pool....there's no way you can practice your way into the A, or pro level group (these groups are not the same as the BCA ratings...A "B" player might be the best in the area, but the pool excellence scale is logarithmic.
You might not agree with that...but I have seen new players come into the pool room for the first time, and within a few months, are beating players with years of experience, and seen decent players practice for hours every day with little, if any, improvement.
I think we all know, deep inside....if we have the talent to master the sport that we are interested in. <hr /></blockquote>

This post was an interesting read. I particularly liked "the pool excellence scale is logarithmic". That is so true and yet so underestimated or not considered by so many.

BLACKHEART
09-30-2007, 09:53 AM
Becoming a "PRO" in other fields may pay big bucks, but pool is not in that league. For instance it takes about $1000 US dollars in expenses, per week to be on the Womens Pro Tour. To start with, the entry fee is $500 per tournament. Be a "PRO" plumber, now there is some body that makes real money...JER

Snapshot9
09-30-2007, 10:36 AM
Depends on the person of course, but a smart on the ball player with a tendency to be competitive:

1) 8-16 hours a day, 4-5 times a week. Includes practicing, done by yourself or with instructor, and playing time.

Like I said, it depends on the person. I was a 5-6 speed within a year, a 7-8 within 2 years, but going up from there is difficult, because much is about knowledge of the finer points of the sport.

Fran Crimi
09-30-2007, 10:38 AM
Jeanette spent 12 hours a day in pool rooms for 5 years, so I've been told by her teacher who recently passed away. That doesn't mean she was actually playing all those hours but she was around it constantly, and if she wasn't playing, she was watching.

If you want to be a pro, you have to totally immerse yourself in the game. That includes practicing alone, practicing with others and competing as often as you can. I never knew a player who was on their way to becoming a pro who ever said no to a tournament if they could afford it. You have to constantly test yourself and then evaluate the results. That's how you find out the areas you are deficient in. Then you have to fix your weaknesses one at a time. For Jeanette, it took about 5 years. But keep in mind she did have a teacher who was willing to spend 12 hours a day in the pool room with her. She was one of the most dedicated players I've seen. For others, it usually takes longer.

Fran

okinawa77
09-30-2007, 12:56 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote kormyer:</font><hr> Hi, I'm new in this forum. im from Quebec so youll see a lot of mistake in my english, anyway... I was wandering, how many hours did a player has to pratice per day to become a pro. I know Jeanette lee has began to play at a older age (i thing 18) than many players. How did she became pro in 4-5 years?! This is amazing! <hr /></blockquote>
<font color="blue"> As many hours as it takes....but keep in mind, quality is better than quantity. Practicing long hours will condition you for tournaments because tournaments will test your endurance. But keep in mind, practicing too much can hurt you. When you get tired and fatigued, you start performing sloppy. My suggestion is to practice until you start feeling aching muscles. Pinpoint those aching muscles, and think about your mechanics. What can you alter in your mechanics to prevent or reduce the fatigue in that area. But ideally, when your body is aching, it is time to take a break.

The amount of time it will take for you to become a pro or pro level play, depends on your aptitude and commitment to improvement. I heard a story about a soldier that was held captive for years. He constantly thought about and imagined himself playing golf. Replaying games in his mind over and over again. When he was freed, he took up golf again, and he didn't miss a beat. He was still as good as he was before...if not better. My point is...even when you are not playing pool, you should be thinking about it. Replaying the games in your mind. Analyzing your mistakes and thinking of ways to improve your game. Use every resource available, be totally committed.

I suggest keeping a journal, take notes, use a video camera, and do whatever it takes to improve your game.

Your journal/notes/videos will enable you to write a autobiography and/or instructional publications that will help others improve their game. Or at least, you could publish a memoir and use the money to fund your pool journeys /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif</font color>

kormyer
09-30-2007, 07:07 PM
Thank you all for your answers... I will continue my way up to local good performance. I really think it's one of the key for success. I'm not setting my goal too high, it's just that I know I could be a possible good player but havent exploited my game at the maximum already...

Rich R.
09-30-2007, 07:31 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote kormyer:</font><hr> Thank you all for your answers... I will continue my way up to local good performance. I really think it's one of the key for success. I'm not setting my goal too high, it's just that I know I could be a possible good player but havent exploited my game at the maximum already... <hr /></blockquote>
As others have said, keep practicing, get some good instruction and compete against others as often as possible. You may also want to look for a regional tour in your area. There are a number of them in the states, but I'm not sure what is available in Canada. When you start to dominate the local and regional tours, you may want to enter a pro tournament to test yourself. IIRC, Canada has a pretty good pro tour. If you do well in that, you may want to try some of the pro tournaments here in the states.

All of this will take a lot of time and money. If possible, don't quit your day job. Pool, especially for a beginner, is not very lucrative.

To quote a joke used too often by nationally known Tournament Director Scott Smith, "What do a large pizza and a pool player have in common?"
Answer: "Neither can feed a family of four." /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif

bradb
10-01-2007, 10:25 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote kormyer:</font><hr> Hi, I'm new in this forum. im from Quebec so youll see a lot of mistake in my english, anyway... I was wandering, how many hours did a player has to pratice per day to become a pro. I know Jeanette lee has began to play at a older age (i thing 18) than many players. How did she became pro in 4-5 years?! This is amazing! <hr /></blockquote>

You will know if you are a player who is capable of being a pro if you beat everyone in sight from the moment you first get to the table.

Like any competitor who has reached the top in any sport, you are a prodigy. Its a natural talent. Willie Misconni was beating adult players when he was 8 years old. His dad built him a special box to stand on so he could reach the table and run the balls. Others started later in life, but they still had what it takes, practice merely sharpened their skills.

We don't know if you have that talent... if you do there is some very good advice here to pursue a career in pool, if you don't, forget about it and just play the game for enjoyment. You don't have to be a pro to appreciate this great game.

Brad

Eric.
10-01-2007, 12:25 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr> Jeanette spent 12 hours a day in pool rooms for 5 years, so I've been told by her teacher who recently passed away. That doesn't mean she was actually playing all those hours but she was around it constantly, and if she wasn't playing, she was watching.

If you want to be a pro, you have to totally immerse yourself in the game. That includes practicing alone, practicing with others and competing as often as you can. I never knew a player who was on their way to becoming a pro who ever said no to a tournament if they could afford it. You have to constantly test yourself and then evaluate the results. That's how you find out the areas you are deficient in. Then you have to fix your weaknesses one at a time. For Jeanette, it took about 5 years. But keep in mind she did have a teacher who was willing to spend 12 hours a day in the pool room with her. She was one of the most dedicated players I've seen. For others, it usually takes longer.

Fran <hr /></blockquote>

It also helps to have world class players like Johnny and Gene to ask questions of. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif


Eric

Fran Crimi
10-01-2007, 12:38 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Eric.:</font><hr>
It also helps to have world class players like Johnny and Gene to ask questions of. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif


Eric <hr /></blockquote>


Ain't it the truth!!! But as for those two guys, Johnny would tell you to bug off when the questions got too ridiculous. Gene would just go into the men's room, punch a wall and then come out smiling, saying, "So where were we?" /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Fran

New2Pool
10-01-2007, 06:18 PM
For those of you who are young and who are not good at pool don't despair you can still become a champion pool player. I don't know a lot about pool but I do know that what makes a perfect player is perfect practice. Here (http://www.freakonomics.com/pdf/DeliberatePractice(PsychologicalReview).pdf) is one study showing that deliberate practice leads to championship performance across a wide range of activities. While pool is not specifically mentioned a few of the activities that are include typing, marathon running, playing the piano and chess.

The role of deliberate practice in gaining expert level performance is well known and that is part of the reason you will notice that one of the first things most people in this board will recommend to newbies like me is to take lessons from a professional. A professional can teach you the best techniques to use for deliberate practice so that you can maximize your potential. For most people it takes around 10 years to become an expert in most areas but that time can be shortened by better coaching.

Obviously there is some advantage to having a body that is suited to the sport you want to play. I could never have become an NBA center no matter how much I would have practiced. But practice is by far the biggest determinate of expert performance.

1Time
10-01-2007, 11:21 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote New2Pool:</font><hr> For those of you who are young and who are not good at pool don't despair you can still become a champion pool player. I don't know a lot about pool but I do know that what makes a perfect player is perfect practice. Here (http://www.freakonomics.com/pdf/DeliberatePractice(PsychologicalReview).pdf) is one study showing that deliberate practice leads to championship performance across a wide range of activities. While pool is not specifically mentioned a few of the activities that are include typing, marathon running, playing the piano and chess.

The role of deliberate practice in gaining expert level performance is well known and that is part of the reason you will notice that one of the first things most people in this board will recommend to newbies like me is to take lessons from a professional. A professional can teach you the best techniques to use for deliberate practice so that you can maximize your potential. For most people it takes around 10 years to become an expert in most areas but that time can be shortened by better coaching.

Obviously there is some advantage to having a body that is suited to the sport you want to play. I could never have become an NBA center no matter how much I would have practiced. But practice is by far the biggest determinate of expert performance. <hr /></blockquote>

You are far too generous with your words, and you must have misunderstood that psych review. Here's a link to a relevant review (http://projects.ict.usc.edu/itw/gel/EricssonDeliberatePracticePR93.pdf). Perhaps it's the same one you read.

Those who are young CANNOT still become champion pool players simply by practice. Champion pool players must have "the gift" and opportunity to develop it, just like an NBA center must. And so, practice is not the biggest determinant of expert performance; it can't be. So relatively few have "the gift" and opportunity to develop it. If practice were the biggest determinant, there would be over 100 times more champions and experts than there are.

And, the reason one of the first things some on this board suggest "practice, practice, practice" so liberally, is they don't know any better. It's a great waste of time for most players to practice without proper instruction. Why advise one to go out and practice their mistakes and poor pool game? Sure, they'll get better, eventually. But advising the average joe who pops in here to go practice, is like advising the blind to go lead the blind (himself). I pity the ordinary people who attempt to learn for example pool, chess, or golf all on their own and only through practice. What a waste! Sure, advise a child prodigy / phenom to practice and you'll get vastly different results. However, it's always best to first suggest proper instruction.

New2Pool
10-02-2007, 08:17 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote 1Time:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote New2Pool:</font><hr>

Obviously there is some advantage to having a body that is suited to the sport you want to play. I could never have become an NBA center no matter how much I would have practiced. But practice is by far the biggest determinate of expert performance. <hr /></blockquote>

You are far too generous with your words, and you must have misunderstood that psych review. Here's a link to a relevant review (http://projects.ict.usc.edu/itw/gel/EricssonDeliberatePracticePR93.pdf). Perhaps it's the same one you read.

Those who are young CANNOT still become champion pool players simply by practice. Champion pool players must have "the gift" and opportunity to develop it, just like an NBA center must. And so, practice is not the biggest determinant of expert performance; it can't be. So relatively few have "the gift" and opportunity to develop it. If practice were the biggest determinant, there would be over 100 times more champions and experts than there are.
... (Quote has been edited for length, you are welcome to refer to the original above)
<hr /></blockquote>

Thanks for the link, you are correct it is the same article so one of us must be misunderstanding it. For support of my position I will refer you to the conclusion that begins at the bottom of page 399.

[ QUOTE ]
Conclusion
People believe that because expert performance is qualitatively different from normal performance the expert performer must be endowed with characteristics qualitatively differentfrom those of normal adults. This view has discouraged scientists from systematically examining expert performers and accounting for their performance in terms of the laws and principles of general psychology. We agree that expert performance is qualitatively different from normal performance and even that expert performers have characteristics and abilities that are qualitatively different from or at least outside the range of those of normal adults. However, we deny that these differences are immutable, that is, due to innate talent. Only a few exceptions, most notably height, are genetically prescribed. Instead, we argue that the differences between expert performers and normal adults reflect a life-long period of deliberate effort to improve performance in a specific domain. (emphasis mine. ) <hr /></blockquote>

The results of the studies seem pretty clear to me. Once again, neither the authors nor myself are arguing that physical and mental talent do not make any difference because they obviously do. The research suggests though that as long as you meet a certain minimum threshhold, that is not particularly elite, then practice becomes the primary determinate of success.

1Time
10-02-2007, 09:42 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote New2Pool:</font><hr> The results of the studies seem pretty clear to me. Once again, neither the authors nor myself are arguing that physical and mental talent do not make any difference because they obviously do. The research suggests though that as long as you meet a certain minimum threshhold, that is not particularly elite, then practice becomes the primary determinate of success. <hr /></blockquote>

And here's where you misunderstood. Champions are not made from ordinary folks who meet a minimum threshhold. Champions are made from the elite who have "the gift". Don't get me wrong, I agree with the claims made in this paper. However, your claims are not supported by it and mine are.

SKennedy
10-02-2007, 12:34 PM
Please allow me to explain it this way.....
While I am a decent player when compared to the general population (and I may not even be mediocre, at best, among the group of players posting) I could never be a pro, and certainly never a champion, even if I practiced 32 hours a day until I die. Granted, I would expect to improve with more practice and play, but realistically only to a certain point due to my flaws and certain innate restrictions, etc. And more importantly, I don't have the "desire!" There are other things I enjoy in this world also, and I can not feed my family playing pool.
I watch young people start to play and devote a lot of time and energy into playing and the result is that they improve a signficant amount in a short time period. But after awhile, they find the reward (improvement) is not what it use to be for the work done and lose interest in the game, or at least become more realistic in their potential capablities.
But no matter what, us older players should never discourage these younger players. To become really good requires talent, practice, and most of all, the "desire", which tranlates into a lot of work, practice, and dedication.
At my age I'm not dedicated enough. Many of us at our age are "uncoachable," but if you are young and can't be taught anything cause you already know it all, then you'll never be great.

wolfdancer
10-02-2007, 12:42 PM
This will be great news to the tens of thousands of H.S. athletes that aspire to become a pro...just add more practice...
I think with some more digging, we could find another study, that arrived at a different conclusion?

1Time
10-02-2007, 02:28 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SKennedy:</font><hr>
But no matter what, us older players should never discourage these younger players. <hr /></blockquote>

I agree; however there's a huge difference between discouraging younger players and keeping it real.

1Time
10-02-2007, 02:32 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> This will be great news to the tens of thousands of H.S. athletes that aspire to become a pro...just add more practice...
I think with some more digging, we could find another study, that arrived at a different conclusion? <hr /></blockquote>

This is not what this review indicates. And I doubt there are any more current reviews that are better regarded.

Deeman3
10-02-2007, 02:40 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> This will be great news to the tens of thousands of H.S. athletes that aspire to become a pro...just add more practice...
I think with some more digging, we could find another study, that arrived at a different conclusion? <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue"> Howard Vickery, an older player who is much nicer than he looks (permanent frown), told me that he ran 11 balls the first time he picked up a cue. Now, reason, (even for a right winger -Oxymoron, for you, I know??) would say that practice might be more effective than a guy who had to practice for a year and read 12 books before doing that. </font color>

New2Pool
10-02-2007, 02:50 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman3:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> This will be great news to the tens of thousands of H.S. athletes that aspire to become a pro...just add more practice...
I think with some more digging, we could find another study, that arrived at a different conclusion? <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue"> Howard Vickery, an older player who is much nicer than he looks (permanent frown), told me that he ran 11 balls the first time he picked up a cue. Now, reason, (even for a right winger -Oxymoron, for you, I know??) would say that practice might be more effective than a guy who had to practice for a year and read 12 books before doing that. </font color> <hr /></blockquote>

Actually, in Wolfdancer's defense he was being sarcastic and was saying the same thing you are in response to a post I made. My contention is that deliberate practice is the most important factor once minimum physical criteria is met. Assuming that Mr. Vickery's memory is accurate and not an example of "the older I get the better I was" I would be that Mr. Vickery put in a lot of practice to reach the top of his game. You can be a really good amatuer with very little practice just by relying on natural talent. But once you get to the elite level natural talent can get in the way if it keeps you from putting in the practice hours that are needed. Once you reach a certain level hours of practice is all that will get you better. Some people might get to that plateau fairly quickly while others will take a while but with years of practice the end result will be very similar.

That is not to dispute that Wolfdancer is an unreasonable rightwinger of course. You have been on the forum much longer than I have so you would have a better handle on that.

New2Pool
10-02-2007, 02:55 PM
A quick question for those of you who teach pool for a living and have done so for a long period of time. Of the students you have had who have gone on to be elite pool players, did you feel like they were exceptionally gifted when they first start or have you seen hard work and dedication as the main factor for success?

Fran Crimi
10-02-2007, 03:11 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote 1Time:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote New2Pool:</font><hr> The results of the studies seem pretty clear to me. Once again, neither the authors nor myself are arguing that physical and mental talent do not make any difference because they obviously do. The research suggests though that as long as you meet a certain minimum threshhold, that is not particularly elite, then practice becomes the primary determinate of success. <hr /></blockquote>

And here's where you misunderstood. Champions are not made from ordinary folks who meet a minimum threshhold. Champions are made from the elite who have "the gift". Don't get me wrong, I agree with the claims made in this paper. However, your claims are not supported by it and mine are. <hr /></blockquote>


Yes, there is some kind of "gift" or extraordinary talent that goes with those who have managed to rise to the top. However, I have found that the gift is not exclusive to pool playing talents. I know a few pros (no names) who I observed early in their careers as not being very talented at all. However, their personailities and tenacity more than made up for it and enabled them to cross over those barriers that would normally stop an ordinary player in their tracks from continuing forward.

Fran

Deeman3
10-02-2007, 03:25 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote New2Pool:</font><hr> <hr /></blockquote>

Actually, in Wolfdancer's defense he was being sarcastic and was saying the same thing you are in response to a post I made. <font color="blue"> Please do not defend Wolfdancer, he neither needs nor deserves such a practice. Sarcasm? Wolfdancer, well, he'd be no more likely than, say, me to use such a dastardly tool as sarcasm to get his point across. /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif</font color> My contention is that deliberate practice is the most important factor once minimum physical criteria is met. Assuming that Mr. Vickery's memory is accurate and not an example of "the older I get the better I was" I would be that Mr. Vickery put in a lot of practice to reach the top of his game. You can be a really good amatuer with very little practice just by relying on natural talent. But once you get to the elite level natural talent can get in the way if it keeps you from putting in the practice hours that are needed. <font color="blue"> Yes, i see where it has really hindered Efren, for instance, who, I am told, practiced exclusively by taking other players money from a pretty early age as some who seem even if falsly to not have enough hours of experience behind them to play as well as they do. </font color> Once you reach a certain level hours of practice is all that will get you better. Some people might get to that plateau fairly quickly while others will take a while but with years of practice the end result will be very similar. <font color="blue"> YOu may be right but I suspect that the ones who get there pretty quickly are more often successful as success often breeds repetition of a habit, good or bad.</font color>

That is not to dispute that Wolfdancer is an unreasonable rightwinger of course. You have been on the forum much longer than I have so you would have a better handle on that. <font color="blue"> No, I have to protest in my friend's defense. He drives far out of his way not to make any right turns and in his wildest dreams, will never be mistaken for conservative other than his silent admiration from afar of my ability to detect BS at a nice distance, much of it self inflicted. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif</font color> <hr /></blockquote>

SKennedy
10-02-2007, 05:05 PM
I think wolfdancer really is a right-winger. He's just trying to impress Gayle. He does need to let us know how he came up with that moniker of his. Does it have anything to do with Kostner's movie? I bet he is a "wolf" at the pool table!

wolfdancer
10-02-2007, 07:18 PM
I have been insulted here on this board many times...racial slurs, ethnic slurs,religious slurs...(and I'm Irish Catholic)
but this has to be the unkindest insult of them all
"Wolfdancer is an unreasonable rightwinger" I've never been so taken back...

wolfdancer
10-02-2007, 07:23 PM
Good guess....the lead Character played by Kevin...was Lt. John Dunbar.
I really am a highly paid covert informant for the Republican party, masquerading as a liberal Democrat (I've already started a file on you)....another good guess!!!

Scott Lee
10-02-2007, 10:39 PM
I have had several students who began learning as beginners and progressed to national champion level. Also worked with several students who were already champions, who wanted to become even more consistent. For ALL, it takes dedication and hard work.

Scott Lee

wolfdancer
10-02-2007, 10:43 PM
Damn, I knew I should have signed up for that second lesson...I thought maybe just the one lesson, and a couple of hours practice before I headed to Las Vegas........

bradb
10-04-2007, 05:02 PM
<hr /></blockquote>
Yes, there is some kind of "gift" or extraordinary talent that goes with those who have managed to rise to the top. However, I have found that the gift is not exclusive to pool playing talents. I know a few pros (no names) who I observed early in their careers as not being very talented at all. However, their personailities and tenacity more than made up for it and enabled them to cross over those barriers that would normally stop an ordinary player in their tracks from continuing forward.

Fran <hr /></blockquote>

Fran, you are right, there are exceptions, there are examples of some players discovering something that puts them to a new level.

An example is Jeff White, a Snooker Champion in Alberta who was just an average player in his early years. One day the owner of the pool hall noticed a problem in his stance. He pointed it out and Jeff worked on it for a while. Soon he won the Alberta open, then the Western Canada open. He leaped from a B team player to a champion.
But to be in the top 15 That means you have the mastery of a Cory Duell. Something that is a gift. I know that I could practice piano for the rest of my life but I'll never be a Van Cliburn.

bradb
10-04-2007, 05:14 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> Damn, I knew I should have signed up for that second lesson...I thought maybe just the one lesson, and a couple of hours practice before I headed to Las Vegas........ <hr /></blockquote>

Wolf...Did you see that draw back shot Cory made to win over Reyes? Straight in, slightly hooked, length of the table draw back to the rail and on to the Nine!

Just 500 hunded more attempts and I know I can do it...That is if there are any more places on my pool room wall left undented!.... Brad

Damn /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif

HALHOULE
10-04-2007, 05:22 PM
CALL AT 484 623 4144 HAL HOULE, GO WITH FRAN OR HOULE, WHICH IS IT?

HAL

bradb
10-04-2007, 05:43 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote HALHOULE:</font><hr> CALL AT 484 623 4144 HAL HOULE, GO WITH FRAN OR HOULE, WHICH IS IT?

HAL
<hr /></blockquote>

Fran!

wolfdancer
10-04-2007, 06:39 PM
That shot in pool would be like me trying to hit a 300 yd drive....

wolfdancer
10-04-2007, 06:45 PM
Brad, I think you would both enjoy talking to Hal and,.. he would open you up to some new ideas. None other then Fred Agnir endorses Hal...and that would be enough recommendation for me....but I had the good fortune to take a private lesson with Hal.

bradb
10-05-2007, 10:49 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> Brad, I think you would both enjoy talking to Hal and,.. he would open you up to some new ideas. None other then Fred Agnir endorses Hal...and that would be enough recommendation for me....but I had the good fortune to take a private lesson with Hal. <hr /></blockquote>

Ok...I did'nt know Hal from Adam, I thought that post was one of those sales pitches for some sighting gimmicks with a laser or something.

My problem is not sighting, if I can execute the shot it goes every time. I tend to move my body a bit when faced with a critical shot, its an old bad habit that creeps back every once in a while. I had a shot on the eight ball to go 5 for 5 in my last tournement and missed it by a foot. One of my team came up and said I brought my shoulder up, I did'nt even know I had done that?.

1Time
10-05-2007, 11:33 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bradb:</font><hr> I tend to move my body a bit when faced with a critical shot, its an old bad habit that creeps back every once in a while. I had a shot on the eight ball to go 5 for 5 in my last tournement and missed it by a foot. One of my team came up and said I brought my shoulder up, I did'nt even know I had done that?. <hr /></blockquote>

I used to do that years ago. Took a $10 lesson from a road player who said my form looked good on all shots except the last one which I tended to miss more than others. I agreed with him, no problem, but it wasn't until later I found what best helped me resolve this. The following quote from another thread describes this solution.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote 1Time:</font><hr> A shot on the 9-ball when running out is different than any previous shot in a game for the obvious reason that making it will win the game.

However, there is another difference to consider that may help a player win more 9-ball games. All previous shots made during a run in 9-ball involve shooting the CB with some consideration for moving it into position for the next shot. But when running out to the 9-ball, there is no 10 ball to shoot next. Making shape on a specific location of an imaginary next shot when shooting the 9-ball may help a player win more 9-ball games. <hr /></blockquote>

bradb
10-05-2007, 12:54 PM
I used to do that years ago. Took a $10 lesson from a road player who said my form looked good on all shots except the last one which I tended to miss more than others. I agreed with him, no problem, but it wasn't until later I found what best helped me resolve this. The following quote from another thread describes this solution.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote 1Time:</font><hr> A shot on the 9-ball when running out is different than any previous shot in a game for the obvious reason that making it will win the game.

However, there is another difference to consider that may help a player win more 9-ball games. All previous shots made during a run in 9-ball involve shooting the CB with some consideration for moving it into position for the next shot. But when running out to the 9-ball, there is no 10 ball to shoot next. Making shape on a specific location of an imaginary next shot when shooting the 9-ball may help a player win more 9-ball games. <hr /></blockquote> <hr /></blockquote>

I understand that, but I'm in the 8 ball league, which requires a position leave anyway should I miss.

The critical shot elevates the nerves and its very difficult (for me anyway) to not twitch or move something in the stroke. its the old "staying down on the shot" that I need to work on. its something you can do in practice but only in a match will the true test come.

I was watching a Reyes video and damned if he did'nt jump out of his stance and slash at the ball like a rank amatuer, so I guess i should'nt dump on myself too much. :/ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

SKennedy
10-05-2007, 01:18 PM
That's what separates the pros.....being able to consistently make the money shot...
Tuesday night I ran about 5 balls and had to make tough shots as my shape was not the best in the world (new tables). The next shot was the easiest of the group and I missed it a mile. Why? I did not have the same intensity and focus. On the 8-ball or 9-ball, what I find that helps me is to have good focus while at the same time not putting undue pressure on myself. The idea about 10 balls, etc., in my opinion, is not about setting up shape for the next shot which "helps" you pocket the "money" ball, but the fact that in your mind the "money" ball is now not as signficant and you put less pressure on yourself to make the shot and treat it like you would any other....in other words...less chance of choking....

1Time
10-05-2007, 01:57 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bradb:</font><hr>
I understand that, but I'm in the 8 ball league, which requires a position leave anyway should I miss.

The critical shot elevates the nerves and its very difficult (for me anyway) to not twitch or move something in the stroke. its the old "staying down on the shot" that I need to work on. its something you can do in practice but only in a match will the true test come.

I was watching a Reyes video and damned if he did'nt jump out of his stance and slash at the ball like a rank amatuer, so I guess i should'nt dump on myself too much. :/ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif <hr /></blockquote>

I occasionally pull up and out of shots and to no apparent negative consequence; however I certainly do not recommend it for anyone trying to straighten out their game. I learned to do this over many years, some of which involved me imitating the poor shot mechanics of lesser players in an attempt to hustle others out of their hard earned cash. That Efren Reyes pulls up out of shots shows there’s more to shot making than textbook mechanics.

The larger lesson I was suggesting is to make the money ball seem more like one of the previous shots. Shoot that 8 ball as if you are positioning the CB for the next offensive shot. Let that positioning for the CB be the location where you would like to play defense in case you miss the 8. You should determine this and where the 8 ball is likely to go in case of a miss before you even address the CB.

The issue you describe with “nerves” seems to be psychological. My resolution to this was to separate the consequences of the shot from the pure shot making aspect of the shot. Some may argue they shoot better if there’s more consequences on the line, and that’s good. However, this does not address your concern. Thinking anything like the following is a no-no: “if I make this, I win X, or if I miss this, I lose Y”. If you’re shooting well, it’s best for your thinking to continue as with previous shots. This is a learned skill that requires practice, time, and perhaps instruction. Part of shooting one’s best game is the ability to minimize the things that can negatively influence one’s game.

bradb
10-06-2007, 12:58 PM
<hr /></blockquote>

I occasionally pull up and out of shots and to no apparent negative consequence; however I certainly do not recommend it for anyone trying to straighten out their game. I learned to do this over many years, some of which involved me imitating the poor shot mechanics of lesser players in an attempt to hustle others out of their hard earned cash. That Efren Reyes pulls up out of shots shows there’s more to shot making than textbook mechanics.

The larger lesson I was suggesting is to make the money ball seem more like one of the previous shots. Shoot that 8 ball as if you are positioning the CB for the next offensive shot. Let that positioning for the CB be the location where you would like to play defense in case you miss the 8. You should determine this and where the 8 ball is likely to go in case of a miss before you even address the CB.

The issue you describe with “nerves” seems to be psychological. My resolution to this was to separate the consequences of the shot from the pure shot making aspect of the shot. Some may argue they shoot better if there’s more consequences on the line, and that’s good. However, this does not address your concern. Thinking anything like the following is a no-no: “if I make this, I win X, or if I miss this, I lose Y”. If you’re shooting well, it’s best for your thinking to continue as with previous shots. This is a learned skill that requires practice, time, and perhaps instruction. Part of shooting one’s best game is the ability to minimize the things that can negatively influence one’s game. <hr /></blockquote>

Your point is well taken, but its never been a problem for me until I got older.

An old hand once told me that over the years your game changes, I did'nt have a clue what he was talking about but now I think I do. Its a matter of focus and intensity. When you're younger you have that edge, but as you lose it you must adapt. Its not so much a physical change, its a mental adaption.
Sure your eyesight may get worse or your back aches but your skill is still the same, so why don't older players play as well... In the pros why can't they win anymore?

For me its fighting off the nerves. Not thinking about the shots importance means a different mind set now. I'm no pro, but when I was a younger player I used to feed off the spotlight, now its something I know I must block out.
-Brad

1Time
10-06-2007, 07:17 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bradb:</font><hr> Not thinking about the shots importance means a different mind set now. I'm no pro, but when I was a younger player I used to feed off the spotlight, now its something I know I must block out. <hr /></blockquote>

I've always excelled in the spotlight and still do; it pumps me up. When not in the spotlight, it helps my game to imagine that I am. I think this has to do with the exhibitionist in me, which I don't ordinarily practice any where else. Of course I'm no where near the showman that Keith McCready has been know for, but that is my style and what often triggers a slightly higher level of play.

Playing my best or shooting "in stroke" for me is like playing while experiencing a good day dream and one that I don't want to muck up or wake up from by changing my thought pattern or emotion. Performing in a specialized state of mind is common among many sports and performance oriented activities.

The most notible way my game changed with age is I became more aware of different ways of getting the same or better results and easier. There became less of a need to focus so closely on shots and shoot shots in as an exact way. I simply attribute this to experience.

bradb
10-08-2007, 12:28 PM
<hr /></blockquote>

I've always excelled in the spotlight and still do; it pumps me up. When not in the spotlight, it helps my game to imagine that I am. I think this has to do with the exhibitionist in me, which I don't ordinarily practice any where else. Of course I'm no where near the showman that Keith McCready has been know for, but that is my style and what often triggers a slightly higher level of play.

Playing my best or shooting "in stroke" for me is like playing while experiencing a good day dream and one that I don't want to muck up or wake up from by changing my thought pattern or emotion. Performing in a specialized state of mind is common among many sports and performance oriented activities.

The most notible way my game changed with age is I became more aware of different ways of getting the same or better results and easier. There became less of a need to focus so closely on shots and shoot shots in as an exact way. I simply attribute this to experience. <hr /></blockquote>

I think all pool players love the spotlight, thats the main reason we play, to pull off the big run, its a rush that only a player can know.

Theres the main table in every quality pool hall that is reserved for the good players to take center stage and everyone else gathers around to watch the action. To play well on that table is what we dream about. Its a little harder for me now to take that pressure but I would'nt give it up for the world even though it also bothers me a bit now, its what pool is all about.
The scene in The Hustler where Eddie meets Fats for the first time and the game is on... you can cut the tension with a knife.

Everyone has that one big match, or maybe just one game in their lives that they never forget. For me it was a two back to back big runs in snooker against a top player with everyone watching including Jimmy Wyche, the commentator now for pool broadcasts. Never beat the guy again, but for that one instance I was as good as it gets. To this day I still can remember every shot.

Maybe we should start a new thread on that....

Just talking about it has me fired up again, I'm outta here!



/ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif