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steve617
10-02-2007, 08:03 PM
Just curious if there is an advantage in using the Pro Cup Cue ball with the red dots. Thanks for any info.

randyg
10-03-2007, 04:27 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote steve617:</font><hr> Just curious if there is an advantage in using the Pro Cup Cue ball with the red dots. Thanks for any info. <hr /></blockquote>

We use them in Pool School. The answer is YES......SPF=randyg

Rich R.
10-03-2007, 06:24 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote steve617:</font><hr> Just curious if there is an advantage in using the Pro Cup Cue ball with the red dots. Thanks for any info. <hr /></blockquote>

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote randyg:</font><hr>We use them in Pool School. The answer is YES......SPF=randyg <hr /></blockquote>
Randy, could you explain what benefits there are to using the dotted cue ball for practice?

Bob_Jewett
10-03-2007, 10:55 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote steve617:</font><hr> Just curious if there is an advantage in using the Pro Cup Cue ball with the red dots. Thanks for any info. <hr /></blockquote>
The main advantage is that you can see the spin on the cue ball, intended or not.

For lessons, the cue ball can be used like one of those special training balls by aligning one of the dots where you want to hit or in the "center" of the ball (no spin). You can also use a stripe for this if you don't have a special ball, but I think the spotted cue is better for this.

Deeman3
10-03-2007, 12:31 PM
I also like the fact this ball seems to be very near the normal weight of the rest of the ball set, something not characteristic of the Jim Rempe Training Ball, for instance. You get used to the spots after a very short time.

BigRigTom
10-03-2007, 01:38 PM
The "Measle Ball" as we call it is great for seeing the spins and the spin reversals that occur when playing the cue ball off the rail.
I wish the TV games would go back to it, they have gotten away from it for some reason and now when the pros hit those amazing shots with extreme English or draw no one sees the spins on the cue ball.

dr_dave
10-03-2007, 01:43 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote steve617:</font><hr> Just curious if there is an advantage in using the Pro Cup Cue ball with the red dots. Thanks for any info.<hr /></blockquote>The answer is yes. See the links under "training aids" here (http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads.html) for more information. In particular, see "spotted ball vs. striped ball (http://www.billiardsdigest.com/ccboard/showthreaded.php?Cat=&amp;Board=ccb&amp;Number=182678&amp;page =0&amp;view=collapsed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=&amp;vc=1)."

Regards,
Dave

Derek
10-19-2007, 03:50 PM
It's also my thought that any decent pool hall that cares about it's customers/players should stock their racks with the Pro Cup ball, or at least have a few on hand for those who want to play with one. A small expense in my opinion.

craigstevens
10-19-2007, 03:57 PM
Its too big, over sized, too heavy, the only reason it is not a mud ball is the very high carom finish they put on it. A heavy ball like it will follow better, so it would be good at 14.1. A smaller lighter red circle will out draw it, making it better for 9 ball. We seem to be stuck with this gimmick turkey as the main tours have adopted it. I think it sucks my self. The only reason you need polka dots on a cue ball to see spin is in a trick shot show, not in a pro tour game. I could see a reason for it in 3-c.

Cornerman
10-19-2007, 05:44 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote craigstevens:</font><hr> Its too big, over sized, too heavy, the only reason it is not a mud ball is the very high carom finish they put on it. A heavy ball like it will follow better, so it would be good at 14.1. A smaller lighter red circle will out draw it, making it better for 9 ball. We seem to be stuck with this gimmick turkey as the main tours have adopted it. I think it sucks my self. The only reason you need polka dots on a cue ball to see spin is in a trick shot show, not in a pro tour game. I could see a reason for it in 3-c. <hr /></blockquote>People must have different Pro Cup balls than what I've got. Mine isn't oversized or over weight. It's perfect.

Fred &lt;~~~ thinks there is confusion

Bob_Jewett
10-19-2007, 06:49 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cornerman:</font><hr> ... Fred &lt;~~~ thinks there is confusion <hr /></blockquote>
Bob &lt;~~~ thinks there is abrasion

craigstevens
10-21-2007, 11:46 AM
Just sit the CB down next to any OB, you can clearly see it is bigger, the eyes don't lie? What, you do not believe the red circle is smaller too. Hell I bet you don't believe in the tooth fairy or Santa as well.

BigRigTom
10-21-2007, 11:57 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote craigstevens:</font><hr> Just sit the CB down next to any OB, you can clearly see it is bigger, the eyes don't lie? What, you do not believe the red circle is smaller too. Hell I bet you don't believe in the tooth fairy or Santa as well. <hr /></blockquote>

Maybe you do have a different kind of ProCup Craig!
I just checked and mine is eactly the same as the rest of the rack.
O Yes!
Our eyes do lie to us all the time...Joe Tucker's 3rd eye device proved it to some on this forum.

Randall53
10-21-2007, 05:41 PM
It's been a long time since I've seen a pro game that did'nt use the measle ball

craigstevens
10-21-2007, 07:50 PM
No my eyes see just fine, I just see things you boys miss, that's all. The tucker widget is a joke, give me a break.

I know from experience 95% of all my students, and I have had 3,000 plus, do not have any clue where the center of the cue ball is. No friggen clue.

Bob Mooooochie went around for years saying no pro could hit the center which was why they all used inside on long straight in shots. I went bob, you are fuller than more S*** than a Xmas goose.

To know center, you have to be trained where center is and you all came up grooving center, a tad left or right of it. Where you think it is, it's not, most are a l/16th a l/4" off which means you are putting unwanted english and throw on all shots which is why you suck at long shots.

I solve that by having a student lag a Elephant training ball or stripe up and down the middle of the table and if the ball keeps going off on one side, I teach him to find center, which is un true, then slide a tad over until he hits it. He just keep doing this drill every day for the rest of his life to groove this vital thing. I put every student on 4 stroke trainers, and I catch things like this.
If they have any stroke problem, I know what it is and how to fix it. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

okinawa77
10-22-2007, 12:16 PM
I have a measle ball, the official one....and yes, it is not the right size. If you take 2 regular playing balls and the measle ball, putting the measle ball in the middle, take a good rack and place it on top of the 3 balls (rack standing up). It becomes apparently obvious that the measle ball is not the same size as your regular playing balls. I have found some that are too big, and some that are too small.

As far as finding center, I have found another drill/test that seems just as difficult, if not more difficult than the one craigstevens mentions.

Freeze the cue ball to the long rail, one diamond from the head rail. Freeze an object ball on that same long rail, one diamond from the foot rail. If the table is good (level slate and good rail set up), then you should be able to pocket the OB with the CB stopping at the OB's initial position. If you are using any english, you will not pocket the ball....unless you shoot a (1 in a million) masse shot. You have to find the cue ball's center in order to pocket this ball.

The person that showed my this drill told me that there are a lot of pros that cannot perform this shot successfully.

Scott Lee
10-22-2007, 03:04 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote craigstevens:</font><hr>
I know from experience 95% of all my students, and I have had 3,000 plus, do not have any clue where the center of the cue ball is. No friggen clue. <hr /></blockquote>

Names, Larry...show us some names...I know you can come up with at least 4 (I've met them, and worked with them)!

Scott Lee

Bob_Jewett
10-22-2007, 03:29 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bob_Jewett:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cornerman:</font><hr> ... Fred &lt;~~~ thinks there is confusion <hr /></blockquote>
Bob &lt;~~~ thinks there is abrasion <hr /></blockquote>
Since there continues to be confusion about this....

Balls wear down. A lot. If you try to use a brand new cue ball with a set of balls that has been in heavy use for five years, the cue ball is guaranteed to be larger than the object balls. Visibly. All of the object balls in a typical pool hall are smaller than regulation. All of them except the ones that have been recently changed out due to theft/loss/breakage.

Here's an article about it: http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/2005-12.pdf

Cornerman
11-01-2007, 06:09 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote okinawa77:</font><hr> I have a measle ball, the official one....and yes, it is not the right size. If you take 2 regular playing balls and the measle ball, putting the measle ball in the middle, take a good rack and place it on top of the 3 balls (rack standing up). <hr /></blockquote>



<blockquote><font class="small">Quote craigstevens:</font><hr>Just sit the CB down next to any OB, you can clearly see it is bigger, the eyes don't lie? What, you do not believe the red circle is smaller too. Hell I bet you don't believe in the tooth fairy or Santa as well. <hr /></blockquote>

I just wanted to close this loop, or at least open a new area of search and discovery.

I measured my Pro Cup measles/polka dot ball, with calibrated instruments with up-to-date NIST certification. My ball taken right from the single-piece packaging from Aramith, and described as Pro Cup is as follows:

Polka Dots:
~8mm diameter (TYP),
6 places:
Equator: 0, 90, 270, 360 degrees
North Pole
South Pole
Weight - 5.61 oz (159 grams)
Diameter - 2.2490 in.


Nothing in these parameters would put this ball anywhere but within specifications. If we call 5.75 oz, and 2.250" as nominal, then this ball is slightly below nominal, which I expect from a cueball in general, but even new cueballs I've measured have come up slightly below nominal.

So, then the question becomes, what the hell other cueballs are out there that are giving these measle cueballs a bad name.

Fred