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Gayle in MD
10-04-2007, 08:14 AM
Are you willing to pay more taxes to pay for it?

Three Democrats are sponsoring a Bill to raise taxes on all Americans to pay for the war. Apparently, Pelosi is against that. That's a personal disappointment to me, but that's not the point.

My question today is, are you willing to pay more taxes to fund the war, OR, do you prefer to leave the costs, the debt, and resulting pony up for the costs, to your kids and grand kids, by allowing Bush's solution, spend now, let them pay later, to continue?

This is a pretty clear cut simple question. I hope we can debate it without the insults and slander.

Gayle in Md.

eg8r
10-04-2007, 08:54 AM
[ QUOTE ]
My question today is, are you willing to pay more taxes to fund the war, OR, do you prefer to leave the costs, the debt, and resulting pony up for the costs, to your kids and grand kids, by allowing Bush's solution, spend now, let them pay later, to continue?

This is a pretty clear cut simple question. I hope we can debate it without the insults and slander. <hr /></blockquote> You forgot option 3 which is what most libs try to forget: Keep the tax cuts and reduce frivolous government spending. We have been saying Bush's spending is out of control for the past 6 years. There are a ton of places where government spending could be reduced. It would help with the immeadiate funding of the war right now and it would help drive down the debt that is being incurred.

I know it would be political suicide for a Democrat to state they feel the government is spending too much money on social programs but that is exactly what is happening.

eg8r

Wally_in_Cincy
10-04-2007, 09:39 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> You forgot option 3 which is what most libs try to forget: Keep the tax cuts and reduce frivolous government spending. We have been saying Bush's spending is out of control for the past 6 years. There are a ton of places where government spending could be reduced. It would help with the immeadiate funding of the war right now and it would help drive down the debt that is being incurred.

<hr /></blockquote>

That's why I get so tired of hearing how much we spend on the war. I don't have the numbers right now but the fact is military spending has not gone up as much as the Left might think. It's the discretionary spending that's the problem.

This is from Reason magazine - 2005 :

Total real discretionary outlays will increase about 35.8 percent under Bush (FY2001-06) while they increased by 25.2 percent under LBJ (FY1964-69) and 11.9 percent under Reagan (FY1981-86). By contrast, they decreased by 16.5 under Nixon (FY1969-74) and by 8.2 percent under Clinton (FY1993-98). Comparing Bush to his predecessors is instructive. Bush and Reagan both substantially increased defense spending (by 44.5 and 34.8 percent respectively). However, Reagan cut real nondefense discretionary outlays by 11.1 percent while Bush increased them by 27.9 percent. Clinton and Nixon both raised nondefense spending (by 1.9 percent and 23.1 respectively), but they both cut defense spending substantially (by 16.8 and 32.2 percent).

Wally_in_Cincy
10-04-2007, 09:39 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Are you willing to pay more taxes to pay for it?

<hr /></blockquote>

We pay enough taxes.

Gayle in MD
10-04-2007, 10:43 AM
It's an either/or question, Wally. We're over 8 trillion in debt. You people act as though that debt doesn't exist. You've done that all along. The debt comes due, with interest. Bush turned our biggest surplus, into our biggest deficits. Given the state of our infrastucture, the debt accumulated, this on-going mess in the Middle East, how do you propose addressing the debt, without increrasing taxes, borrow more?

Wally_in_Cincy
10-04-2007, 11:08 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> It's an either/or question, Wally. We're over 8 trillion in debt. You people act as though that debt doesn't exist. You've done that all along. The debt comes due, with interest. Bush turned our biggest surplus, into our biggest deficits. Given the state of our infrastucture, the debt accumulated, this on-going mess in the Middle East, how do you propose addressing the debt, without increrasing taxes, borrow more?

<hr /></blockquote>

My goodness. Did you even read my post?

If Bush and Congress had not been spending like madmen the last 6 years the budget could be almost balanced, despite the war. That is why I say we don't need any more taxes. We need less spending.

Gayle in MD
10-04-2007, 11:23 AM
I read your post, I'm asking you, (and BTW, I just read this morning our debt is now 9.8 trillion) how do we pay that off, continue to pay for this war, (Bush just asked for another 190 billion in an emergency funds request) and all the money we need for re-building our infrasture, our Army, which is broken, run the country, without raising taxes, as we continue to spend 12 billion dollars a month in Afghanistan and Iraq?

After you answer that, please answer the original question, if the choice is to either raise taxes, (Which Greenspan contends is the only way, at this point) or keep borrowing, and leave it to our kids, and grand kids to pay for, which is your choice.

As I understand it, it can't be done. We can't pay for this war, pay off our debt, and run this country, without a tax hike.

If you know a way this can be achieved, I'm all ears, (eyes)....
/ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Gayle in Md.

SKennedy
10-04-2007, 11:38 AM
How about a George Clooney/Brad Pitt ticket for 2012?

Wally_in_Cincy
10-04-2007, 11:40 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> I read your post, I'm asking you, (and BTW, I just read this morning our debt is now 9.8 trillion) how do we pay that off,
<hr /></blockquote>

It's like personal debt. The first thing you do is quit spending.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr>

please answer the original question, if the choice is to either raise taxes, (Which Greenspan contends is the only way, at this point) or keep borrowing, and leave it to our kids, and grand kids to pay for, which is your choice.

As I understand it, it can't be done. We can't pay for this war, pay off our debt, and run this country, without a tax hike.


<hr /></blockquote>

It can be done. Stop the wasteful spending, hold all department budgets to the rate of inflation, quit pasing new entitlements, and eventually revenues will catch up with spending.

You don't have to believe it but it can be done. IMO

wolfdancer
10-04-2007, 12:33 PM
You're posting privileges are suspended for 24 hrs after that reply

wolfdancer
10-04-2007, 12:42 PM
asked and answered...
"do we pay, or leave it for the kids?"
"we pay enough taxes"....
While the debt itself is a staggering amount....can you imagine the cost of servicing the debt?
We used to be a lender nation...and our debtors eventually couldn't even pay the interest....
Most of these debts were forgiven, as the costs were impairing the economies, and self reliant development of these countries.
I'm not sure our Chinese friends will be so accommodating...
But maybe they'll settle the debt for Fla, if we also toss in Disney world?

Gayle in MD
10-04-2007, 01:45 PM
LOL, We're already at pay-go, thanks to the Democrats, but I think these answers we're getting are not from folks who have done the math.

I'll have to find that GAO information. China, the guys who shot down our satellite? The ones who are robbing us blind? Poisoning our food and toothpaste? You know, they gotta love us, right?

Hey, my friend sent me a web address where you could watch the interest on our debt to China clicking by, like the one showing the Iraq War costs, I need to find that site!

I think visual aids may be the answer on here, LOL.

You ask a Republican if they want to raise taxes, to pay up the debt, or leave it for their kids to pay off, and they answer, stop spending! LMAO! I swear, I'm not being a smart ass, but I am falling off this chair laughing. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif Like it's about like oweing a few thousand on a credit card or something. We're talking 9.8 Trillion dollars here, with interest, and a country that's crumbling to the ground! Bridges, dams, tunnels, and the Army. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Love,
Gayle

Gayle in MD
10-04-2007, 03:30 PM
[ QUOTE ]
<hr /></blockquote> It can be done. Stop the wasteful spending, <font color="red">Wasteful spending seem to be the buzz words, don't they? Wasteful spending is, according to repubs, any money that goes to help people. Meanwhile, Bush is spending 12 billion a month, does that even include all his emergency appropriations? Here's the deal, Wally, anyway, Bush is not going to stop spending, period. He's going head long into more debt. What's your estimate of our deficits, including borrowed money, and the interest, by the time we get rid of him? It will be a far cry from 9.8 trillion dollars, I assure you. </font color> hold all department budgets to the rate of inflation, <font color="red">Those department budgets you speak of, many of them for our own safety and security, have already been sliced all along. Costs tend to rise. How do you propose to hold them to the rate of inflation, and still operate this country, which is crumbling on all fronts? </font color> quit pasing new entitlements, <font color="red">Right, just let Americans die, so we can provide Iraqis with security, so they can think for a while, five more years, say? That's the ticket! Surely they can solve their thousands years old grudges in just a few more years, huh? Let's just let the bridges collapse,and the dams break, we're just Jhonny on the spot on those kinds of disasters, let the sick kids die, and let the old eat dog food. </font color> and eventually revenues will catch up with spending. <font color="red">Revenues never catch up to spending in war time, never. And definately not during a warand after it, which will leave thousands of vets in life long need.</font color>


You don't have to believe it but it can be done. IMO

<font color="red"> LMAO, you're right, I don't believe it, and it isn't true, either. We still haven't even been given the actual numbers, which I will assure you, once Bush, and the Bushyites are cleared out, will inexplicably, suddenly rise beyond your wildest imagination. Focussing on entitlements, is exactly what Republicans want us all to do. I wonder why?</font color> /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

wolfdancer
10-04-2007, 05:54 PM
There's also another scenario playing out here:
The dollar is dropping faster then Bush's rating approval..they're both at record lows....
web page (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/21/business/worldbusiness/21dollar.html?ex=1348027200&amp;en=c2dd87aaaa692078&amp;ei =5088&amp;partner=rssnyt&amp;emc=rss)
And:
All Things Considered, October 2, 2007 A cheap dollar may be boosting exports, but it's also putting U.S. companies on sale. Foreign firms are snatching up U.S. based companies at the fastest pace in seven years. When the topic is foreign takeovers of U.S. firms it doesn't take much to prompt concerns about loss of jobs and control. But many observers see these transactions as an absolutely normal and inevitable part of globalization.
And the Dubai bourse is buying a percentage of the NasDaq? It's going to be downright unAmerican to trade stocks anymore.
I think the advantages of a fa(i)lling dollar are offset greatly by the disadvantages.
We'll know for sure when Nike moves their manufacturing plant over here from Viet Nam to take advantage of the cheap labor pool here.....
BUT, don't worry (be happy)...that noted economist; GWB is on top of the issue....

Gayle in MD
10-05-2007, 12:55 PM
LOL, yeah, his solution for 9/11 was genius, don't worry, go shopping! /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

b-back soon, you take care now friend, steer clear of the restless native! /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Love,
Gayle

Qtec
10-08-2007, 05:31 AM
If someone asks the Govt for 50 billion to help underprivileged kids get an education or healthcare [ therefore investing in the future of the country,] its too expensive.

When GW asks for another 150 billion [on top of what the Military machine already gets] nobody asks a question.
Why?..................because to do so would now label you as one who does not support the troops!

Its French Fries all over again.

Q.........anyone remember when Wolfowitz said the Iraq war would pay for itself???????????????????????


Healthcare web page (http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/10/06/the-daily-show-banned-aid-bush-vetoes-schip/)

Gayle in MD
10-09-2007, 08:28 AM
You're right, Q, and it's ridiculous. Remember when the administration produced the fake letters supposedly from troops, only when the guys were found, they hadn't written any of it.

We've had seven years of Madison Avenue PR, to cover up seven years of lies, and hidden coffins, just like his daddy did. Hide the dead, bad enough, hide the sick, the poor, inflation, the cost of war, hide it all, especially the lies. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Mission Accomplished.

Gayle in Md.

DickLeonard
10-10-2007, 08:00 AM
WallyinCincy I know you weren't on the board when I gave my assessment on why we can't defeat Osama. He will bury us in debt until we change our strategy.

He paid for 4 pilots to learn how to fly airplanes, he saved money by not having them learn how to land them. 16 one way airline tickets and a couple of months of living in our country. I will give him one hundred thousand for that operation.

That did nearly 2 billion in damages and made the airlines spend millions for security.

Backpackers blowing up subways another hundred thousand. This operation has proven to be a real cost effective program. All Osama has to spread a rumor that a subway might be attacked and we spend a million beefing up security.

We spent 1.6 billion for wars in Afganistan,Irag and still no Osama. You add up the figures and tell me how we can win pursuing this flawed strategy before we go broke.####

Gayle in MD
10-10-2007, 08:20 AM
Dick,
What if Bush had just come right out and said, the day he stood on the rubble, "We're not going to make bin Laden or al Qaeda, our main priority. We're going to occupy Iraq, and launch a war we can't win. They are not a immediate threat, but we need to get some of their oil, and, well, I got a family grudge to settle. We're going to give no bid contracts to all our friends, and re-deploy the same soldiers, over and over again, so that our rich kids won't have to go, and we won't have to have a draft, so don't owrry about making any personal sacrifices, we'll find some poor and Middle Class need6y kids, for that, and I'm not going to care, or think, about bin Laden anymore, I'm going to go for the nation building, and support the military Industrial Complex, on the blood of some. This may put us 9.8 trillion in debt, or more, but it's better than letting the Democrats use the money for education, medical care, medical research, or helping the poor, the hungry, or the ill. Now just don't worry about a thing. You go shopping, and I'll see that poor or ill women can't get abortions, and gays can't marry."

Guess what... the nutty right would have voted for him again anyway!

wolfdancer
10-10-2007, 01:06 PM
From 2003:
Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz cited bureaucratic reasons for focusing on Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction, and said a "huge" result of the war was to enable Washington to withdraw its troops from Saudi Arabia.

"The truth is that for reasons that have a lot to do with the U.S. government bureaucracy, we settled on the one issue that everyone could agree on which was weapons of mass destruction as the core reason," Wolfowitz was quoted as saying in a Pentagon transcript of an interview with Vanity Fair.
I knew about the WMDs that Saddam was stockpiling , and aiming at the U.S. (my President informed me of that)...I didn't know about the plan to bring the boys back home from Saudi.....
I bet he has another top secret plan to get the guys out of Grenada, as well.

wolfdancer
10-10-2007, 01:21 PM
Gayle, that might have made them lean a little towards voting for GWB....but how could you leave out the most important point....the clincher...?
"I'm going to offer huge tax cuts to the super-rich, and some nice ones to the very rich"

hondo
10-10-2007, 07:02 PM
Hey, Wally, going to DCC this year?

Gayle in MD
10-11-2007, 09:11 AM
That was definitely the one! /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

bamadog
10-11-2007, 04:42 PM
People who pay HUGE taxes get the lion's share of tax cuts. It is only logical.
You got a tax cut as well. Did you give it back to the govt., or spend it?

wolfdancer
10-11-2007, 08:17 PM
It ain't none of your **** business, what the **** I did with my tax cut.
You want to follow Gayle's posts around and try to put her down...brave man.
to me your just another **** with nothing to offer but the usual liberal label BS.
I'm hoping Gayle doesn't care to deal with the likes of you and the other newbie stalker...she's already gets enough crap here.
Instead of your idiotic insults why don't you post some facts to support your side of the argument?
Maybe you're just trying to make yourself a name here by picking on Gayle, and ingratiate yourself to the others that differ with her views....
Now you can waste your time adding me to your stalking list...but what I do is just ignore anybody that I believe is a ****
I see they have replied,I don't read any of it, and just wish it were on toilet paper, so I could wipe my *** with it...

hondo
10-11-2007, 08:31 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> It ain't none of your **** business, what the **** I did with my tax cut.
You want to follow Gayle's posts around and try to put her down...brave man.
to me your just another **** with nothing to offer but the usual liberal label BS.
I'm hoping Gayle doesn't care to deal with the likes of you and the other newbie stalker...she's already gets enough crap here.
Instead of your idiotic insults why don't you post some facts to support your side of the argument?
Maybe you're just trying to make yourself a name here by picking on Gayle, and ingratiate yourself to the others that differ with her views....
Now you can waste your time adding me to your stalking list...but what I do is just ignore anybody that I believe is a ****
I see they have replied,I don't read any of it, and just wish it were on toilet paper, so I could wipe my *** with it... <hr /></blockquote>

LOL, Wolfie, why don't you tell Snoopy how you really feel?
I was on Bamadog's ignore list on AZ.
Now, LWW is another story.
Over-rates himself a bit, but he can be formidable.
I'm the reason he come over; I thought it would be fun.
I didn't invite Snoop doggy , however.

wolfdancer
10-11-2007, 08:55 PM
I'm the reason he come over; I thought it would be fun.
"sometimes a bad notion"
It's the stalking bit that I really object to...everybody is entitled to their opinion, but .......I don't mind arguing politics or the war...but do they really think they can accomplish anything meaningful by scoring a few points here?
Public opinion will still be against this admin.If they want to really support this war...don't just buy a $1 American flag pin and wear it, and then claim to be a Patriot....get their butt down to the recruiting office and sign up for the next half dozen rotations of duty in Iraq....or Iran...

bamadog
10-11-2007, 11:12 PM
You want facts?
The top 1% of earners pay 35% of all US income taxes.
The top 10% pay 66%.
While the bottom 50% pay less than 3.5%!
So even you can see that a tax cut disproportionately benefits those that actually PAY taxes.
So your screeching about tax cuts for the rich is actually pretty ridiculous, since the poor pay little, if any, fed income tax.

LWW
10-12-2007, 04:08 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> It ain't none of your **** business, what the **** I did with my tax cut.<hr /></blockquote>
STOP THE PRESSES!

You must be one of those rich folks, nbecause I've been hearing neolibs rant for 7+ years (about how those were only for Bush, his oil buddies, and the rich. Which one are you? Or, are you admitting it's all been class warfare shiite to divide the country over with.

BTW, I'm yet to meet the first neolib that ever gave the tax return back. What does that tell you?

I know what it tells me, and that is that when taken as a class they are so Scroogish that they believe the only way societal ills can be solved is with govt robbery at gunpoint. They, again as a group, are seemingly oblivious to the good nature and charity of man.

LWW