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Jager85
10-11-2007, 04:53 PM
I was looking around online for some more pool info, the more the merrier, and came across the site below. Check out the sections titled: How did I miss that easy cut shot? and Shooting hard with english.

This talks about overcutting a ball due to hitting the ball hard. I know I have read and tested and proved OB Throw, which involves undercutting the ball due to natural angle, but this site says that with the same shot hit hard you will overcut the ball. I know that the harder you hit the ball the less throw exists, but can it really deflect and miss to the opposite side of the pocket?

Any advice or anyone else heard of this because this is new to me. Something I will definately test this weekend though.

http://www.easypooltutor.com/article-topic-6.html

okinawa77
10-11-2007, 06:09 PM
The article seems to me to be a classic case of spin transfer. In this situational shot, when you strike the cue ball with medium/soft strength, the CB (Cue Ball) will already be in a natural (forward) rolling state, and will not transfer a noticeable amount of spin on the OB (Object Ball). Using a hard stroke with low (bottom) english, you are transferring the CB spin to the OB, and giving that OB forward (top) spin......BUT....when you have an angled cut shot, your cue ball center-low (bottom aka draw aka screwback) english does not translate to center-top spin on the OB because the CB is not contacting the OB in the same manner as a straight in shot.

One thing that you can do in this situational shot, rather than adjust the CB to OB aim...as recommended in the article (1/8 or something?), is to use low right english.

So, when you have a shot in front of you, like the one in the article....there is more than just one or two ways to pocket the OB. Determining where you want the CB to go after contacting the OB should dictate which shot you use.

For example: If you have an OB close to the side pocket, and your CB is on the center spot...giving you a straight shot....How do you get shape on your next OB?

Center Cue Ball: You can pocket the ball and get the cue ball to go in any direction with full 360 degree range using center cue ball and cheating the pocket. The limitation to this approach is that the cue ball may not be able to get to the next position due to obstacle balls because the cue ball track lines are (static) straight track lines from the OB-CB contact location.

Side English: You can pocket the OB and get the CB to any location on the table with (dynamic) tracks lines by using CB english. Track lines that bend due to spin, and react to contact with rails with more accentuated angles. Thus allowing you to avoid obstacle balls.

Here is a drill to try:

Place the OB 2.25 inches (the size of the ball) away from the side pocket...lined up center pocket. Place the CB on the center spot (center of the table).
Now, imagine track lines that originate from the OB and spread out 360 degrees.
Try to pocket the OB and get the CB to follow all the 360 degrees of track lines using nothing but center CB contact.

NOTE: As the OB is positioned farther away from the pocket, the shot becomes more difficult. And as the distance from the CB to OB is increased, the shot also becomes more difficult. Adding CB english can make the shots easier, if you have adjusted to the environment and have everything is dialed in.

Jager85
10-11-2007, 06:43 PM
Thanks for the advice it makes sense now, but with that drill are you talking exact center ball or vertical axis center ball? I can see this possible with follow and draw but not with center ball...

okinawa77
10-11-2007, 07:30 PM
Yes, Top and Bottom included. Any spot on the cue ball that is along the vertical axis of the center of the cue ball is what I consider natural english. Anything that is not along the center-vertical axis is what I consider side english.

Jager85
10-16-2007, 11:13 AM
I did this drill over the weekend. It was slightly harder han I thought. It seemed like it would be a breeze, but there were a couple areas I had a little bit of trouble with. It got me to realize how much of a difference a small offset can make.

okinawa77
10-16-2007, 02:14 PM
This drill will help you a lot in 8 ball. One thing that instructors will teach for 8 ball beginner-intermediate players, is to position your object balls within 1 diamond of the pockets during the game....because from that position you should be able to pocket the ball and get position on your next shot with a higher probability than shooting at object balls near the center of the table.

I had an SL 3 on my APA 8 ball team, and I taught him to do this. He starting beating SL 4's and 5's rather easily.

dr_dave
10-16-2007, 10:07 PM
Everything you ever wanted to know about throw can be found in my August '06 through July '07 articles (http://billiards.colostate.edu/bd_articles/index.html).

Happy reading,
Dave
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Jager85:</font><hr> I was looking around online for some more pool info, the more the merrier, and came across the site below. Check out the sections titled: How did I miss that easy cut shot? and Shooting hard with english.

This talks about overcutting a ball due to hitting the ball hard. I know I have read and tested and proved OB Throw, which involves undercutting the ball due to natural angle, but this site says that with the same shot hit hard you will overcut the ball. I know that the harder you hit the ball the less throw exists, but can it really deflect and miss to the opposite side of the pocket?

Any advice or anyone else heard of this because this is new to me. Something I will definately test this weekend though.

http://www.easypooltutor.com/article-topic-6.html <hr /></blockquote>