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Gayle in MD
10-12-2007, 12:55 PM
A commentary to Al Gore's genius, and recognition of the role which dependence on Oil plays in Peace in our world. Kind of like shining a sopt light on the falacy of this administration's fatal attraction to maintaining the status quo in the whole scheme of energy dependence, and secret oil deals for which it will be forever scrutinized, and condemned.

Congratulations to Mr. Gore, the true winner of the 2,000 Presidential election, and admired all over the world for his brilliant ability to remain on the cutting edge of technology. He is truly an American Hero.



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gov-bill-richardson/a-big-day-for-al-gore-and_b_68237.html

Deeman3
10-12-2007, 01:00 PM
Imagine to invent the internet, discover global warming and still be out smarted for the presidency all in one lifetime. What a guy!

bamadog
10-12-2007, 01:02 PM
Pretty sad when an opportunist and fraud like Saint Al can when this prize.
But no surprise really, since in the past it's been given to other undeserving murderers and scalliwags like Arafat, Annan and Carter.

wolfdancer
10-12-2007, 01:08 PM
well, two out of three ain't bad...but to be out-smarted by an idiot...now that's got to hurt
"so I ask you Madame Secretary...who has the PHD, and who was the "c" student...?"

Gayle in MD
10-12-2007, 01:33 PM
In fact, the right can't stand to admit all the great achievments of Democrats throughout our history. They are known for re-writing history. They have perfected that knack to the present ability to do so right before our very eyes, in the midst of librabies of documentation to the contrary. I believe, this method was also used by Hitler, and that the same authoritarian lovers abounded at the time of his genocide. Bush, has managed to impliment the same tactics, outlined in a number of books, BTW, and he is know for them, and for his ruthless attacks against humanity, which have not yet been fully exposed, but enough of them to see the pattern he uses.

Carter installed solar panels on the White House, Reagan removed them, obviously fearing they would offend his corporate fascist oil friends. WE have observed the fleesing of Californians, by the energy fascists, and overlooked by Bush. WE have observed secret meetings, and allowing big oil to formulate our energy policy. Is the right completely blind to these events, or just on the side of fascism. I believe the latter. They posess all the same signs of those followers of the Hitler period, only I do believe they are worse, since they have discarded the lessons so prominently displayed in historical fact.

Al Gore DID, in fact, play a huge role in promoting and creating the Internet, or "Innernets" as Bush would say, into this vast technological and sociologic achievment which it is today. Bush, OTOH, can't even say the word. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Good people have been smashed by criminal liars throughout history. Today, is different. There are unscrupulous people, ah hem, religious people, that is, who admired such low down behavior. Hence, people like Hitler, are allowed to continue their abuse of humanity, unchecked by high integrity of the masses.

How the right does love to muddy the waters. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Love,
Gayle

LWW
10-12-2007, 01:40 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> In fact, the right can't stand to admit all the great achievments of Democrats throughout our history.

Love,
Gayle <hr /></blockquote>

Edify me? What are these achievements?

LWW

Wally_in_Cincy
10-12-2007, 02:07 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Al Gore DID, in fact, play a huge role in promoting and creating the Internet, <hr /></blockquote>

Promoting yes, creating I am not so sure. See Gayle, unlike you I am willing to give credit where credit is due. I could have picked one of your other ridiculous statements (how bad the economy is e.g.) and picked it apart but I didn't.

Back to Saint Albert, it so happens that his movie is full of falsehoods.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-britain_gore_for_weboct12,1,7432525.story?ctrack=1 &amp;cset=true

Wally_in_Cincy
10-12-2007, 02:08 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote LWW:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> In fact, the right can't stand to admit all the great achievments of Democrats throughout our history.

Love,
Gayle <hr /></blockquote>

Edify me? What are these achievements?

LWW <hr /></blockquote>

Don't expect an answer. Unless she chooses to copy and paste her boilerplate diatribe and ignore the question completely.

wolfdancer
10-12-2007, 02:30 PM
It's hard not to mention Bush and Hitler, and not remember the old family ties. But the Rockefellers, the Harrimans,and Shockley, as well, all bought into the idea of genetic superiority.
I think that idea, while not quite buried, has been replaced by the concept of a ruling elite. I'd guess that something like that is preached in the Skull &amp; Bones society...which claims both Bush and Gore as members.
Gore, at least, is trying to do something positive...
Bush would have been a good pool player....not the best player, but a formidable opponent...He'd have been able to instantly forget, each miss, each position error, each cuing error and still believe himself to be the best player.
With a history of screwing up every position that's been gift-wrapped and handed to him....he probably still believes himself to be a great President....and not the worst one in history.
I wonder how that sticks in his craw...the guy he stole the election from, getting more worldwide acclaim then he gets?

Deeman3
10-12-2007, 02:30 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> In fact, the right can't stand to admit all the great achievments of Democrats throughout our history. <font color="blue"> Freeing the slaves, no..hold on that was Republican, Ended the Viet Nam war, Naw, hold on, Ended the Cold War, No, my bad, thatw as a Republican, Wait, sold weapons technology to China, yep, finally got one, Carter, let's see installed solar panels, I believe that is the only thing he did, except for broker peace with Areab contires, Naw, that flopped, did he ever give back that Nobel for that? </font color> They are known for re-writing history. They have perfected that knack to the present ability to do so right before our very eyes, in the midst of librabies of documentation to the contrary. <font color="blue"> That is gobledegook. </font color> I believe, this method was also used by Hitler, and that the same authoritarian lovers abounded at the time of his genocide. <font color="blue"> You believe anything as long as it is bad about Bush and not provable. </font color> Bush, has managed to impliment the same tactics, outlined in a number of books, BTW, and he is know for them, and for his ruthless attacks against humanity, which have not yet been fully exposed, but enough of them to see the pattern he uses. <font color="blue">Therefore you equate him with Hitler, a man who causeeed the death of 40~60 million people and over 6 million Jews. Your venom has no shame. </font color>

Carter installed solar panels on the White House, <font color="blue"> See, he did do something except induldge Iran for 4 years. What a man, what a leader!</font color> Reagan removed them, obviously fearing they would offend his corporate fascist oil friends. WE have observed the fleesing of Californians, by the energy fascists, and overlooked by Bush. <font color="blue"> California did not need nor require GWB to be fleesed.</font color> WE have observed secret meetings, <font color="blue"> How did you observe a secret meeting. Were you invited? I thought that would have been the reason for them being secret. Gayle was there, is she a part of this vast right wing conspiracy? </font color> and allowing big oil to formulate our energy policy. Is the right completely blind to these events, or just on the side of fascism. I believe the latter. <font color="blue"> Gayle believes in anything but Bush. </font color> They posess all the same signs of those followers of the Hitler period, only I do believe they are worse, since they have discarded the lessons so prominently displayed in historical fact. <font color="blue">Worse than Hitler? You are despicable and disrespectful and dismissive of millions of innocent Jews who were murdered. you equate our President with activity such as this for selfish political purposes. </font color>

Al Gore DID, in fact, play a huge role in promoting and creating the Internet, or "Innernets" as Bush would say, into this vast technological and sociologic achievment which it is today. Bush, OTOH, can't even say the word. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif <font color="blue"> Gayle believes anything. </font color>

Good people have been smashed by criminal liars throughout history. Today, is different. There are unscrupulous people, ah hem, religious people, that is, who admired such low down behavior. Hence, people like Hitler, are allowed to continue their abuse of humanity, unchecked by high integrity of the masses.

How the right does love to muddy the waters. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Love,
Gayle <hr /></blockquote>

bamadog
10-12-2007, 02:58 PM
While you are waxing triumphant over Saint Al's award, you are aware that most of the assertions of "an inconvenient truth" have been debunked as junk science, aren't you? Or does the truth not matter?

SKennedy
10-12-2007, 03:01 PM
But I thought Bush was the dummy?
How can Gayle write that stuff and not die from laughing so hard. Surely she is putting us on? Gore? You gotta be kidding me....

SKennedy
10-12-2007, 03:03 PM
Gayle..make up your mind...are we bible-thumping idiots or little Hitlers? It's hard to be both.

SKennedy
10-12-2007, 03:16 PM
Let's see now....the choices are world-wide acclaim about failure (election) and global-warming doculie, or President of the greatest nation in the free world?
The world loves to watch Goofy. He's quite entertaining in his big oafish way. But I would not want him to be my President.

wolfdancer
10-12-2007, 03:21 PM
That's why we still hold free elections....but I'm hoping for a constitutional amendment....nobody from Texas be allowed to run...Let's see now LBJ,George, and George Walker...that should be enough to get the amendment passed

SKennedy
10-12-2007, 03:28 PM
That's OK. We'll leave the union. I don't have a problem with that, especially considering the probablity that Hillary will be elected.

SKennedy
10-12-2007, 03:30 PM
Can Gayle swin in muddy waters?

LWW
10-12-2007, 04:07 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Al Gore DID, in fact, play a huge role in promoting and creating the Internet, or "Innernets" as Bush would say, into this vast technological and sociologic achievment which it is today. Bush, OTOH, can't even say the word. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Love,
Gayle <hr /></blockquote>
I refuse to accept that you actually believe that Gayle?

The internet was invented in the 1960's when Al was smoking dope and was declassified and made open to the public by Bush I.

You may now resume your regularly scheduled reCount Dracula fantasy.

LWW

LWW
10-12-2007, 04:10 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote LWW:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> In fact, the right can't stand to admit all the great achievments of Democrats throughout our history.

Love,
Gayle <hr /></blockquote>

Edify me? What are these achievements?

LWW <hr /></blockquote>

Don't expect an answer. Unless she chooses to copy and paste her boilerplate diatribe and ignore the question completely. <hr /></blockquote>
I'm aware of that.

I just want let Hondo watch his intellectual mentor hide under the bed when the light of truth shines on her.

LWW

LWW
10-12-2007, 04:12 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> That's why we still hold free elections....but I'm hoping for a constitutional amendment....nobody from Texas be allowed to run...Let's see now LBJ,George, and George Walker...that should be enough to get the amendment passed <hr /></blockquote>
If Al believed in free elections he wouldn't have reneged on his surrender nor would he have shamefully tried to void the votes of our troops.

LWW

LWW
10-12-2007, 04:24 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote LWW:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote LWW:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> In fact, the right can't stand to admit all the great achievments of Democrats throughout our history.

Love,
Gayle <hr /></blockquote>

Edify me? What are these achievements?

LWW <hr /></blockquote>

Don't expect an answer. Unless she chooses to copy and paste her boilerplate diatribe and ignore the question completely. <hr /></blockquote>
I'm aware of that.

I just want let Hondo watch his intellectual mentor hide under the bed when the light of truth shines on her.

LWW <hr /></blockquote>
Since Hondo has apologized to me on AZB for the cowardice of the left here I guess I don't get a kick out of watching Hondo suffer. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I'll give him credit for being an adult and a gentleman when he knows he's wrong.

That is something several people here could stand to learn how to do.

LWW

wolfdancer
10-12-2007, 04:27 PM
Not too late to get on board. Everybody wants to be on a winning team !!!
And when you step into that voting booth to mark your "X" for Hillary...remember this immortal line:
"It is a far, far better thing that I do now, then I have ever done...."
“When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they can seem invincible, but in the end they always fall. Think of it. Always.” Gandhi

bamadog
10-12-2007, 04:35 PM
Yes, good people have been smashed by "criminal liars" throughout history.
Luckily, the criminal liar, Bill Clinton had to pay his victim, the courageous Paula Jones. Juanita Broderick, and others, are still waiting.

LWW
10-12-2007, 04:46 PM
Dawg, I think we've done flushed out some sensible folk here who are tired of the neoleftist nonsense.

LWW

pooltchr
10-12-2007, 04:52 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> They are known for re-writing history. They have perfected that knack to the present ability to do so right before our very eyes,
Love,
Gayle <hr /></blockquote>

Well, I must admit that I have finally found a point of yours I agree with. Yes, they re-write history, remove facts that they don't like, add their own version of facts. You should be proud of their achievements! /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
Steve

wolfdancer
10-12-2007, 05:25 PM
which do you prefer to be known as /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

wolfdancer
10-12-2007, 05:27 PM
we don't like it when our words are turned around and used against us.....

pooltchr
10-12-2007, 08:23 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> we don't like it when our words are turned around and used against us..... <hr /></blockquote>

Then I suppose we should be careful which words we use. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Steve

wolfdancer
10-12-2007, 09:18 PM
I think Americans should forget party lines, and be proud that an American has won a Noble Prize.
That climate changes are occurring...that's a fact....if we can do anything to prevent disaster that's debatable....but at the very least, Al didn't allow this admin to sweep the topic under the rug, bury it among rigged report filed by the oil industry.....For continuing to oppose Bush and his big oil pals...Al should be awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom...the Nation's top civilian honor....
Probably won't happen though.....

wolfdancer
10-12-2007, 09:30 PM
Here's another take on the Republican Party, and it's role in freeing the slaves....you might not agree with him, but he does make some interesting observations.
On the other hand, spend a little time on Google, and I'm sure you could find equally damaging ideas about the Democrats.
web page (http://www.lewrockwell.com/gregory/gregory40.html)

sack316
10-12-2007, 11:12 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr>
...They are known for re-writing history...
...in the midst of librabies of documentation to the contrary...
...outlined in a number of books...
<hr /></blockquote>

almost hate to add to this thread, but I'm bored. So if the above were true, how then were these books and documents salvaged while still true? Would they not have been rewritten as well? Just curious.

Next thing we know Michael Moore will be winning a Nobel award as well. For some reason an episode of South Park just came to my mind... where a certain bodily function is achieved through the mouth rather than... well you get the idea.

Sack

bamadog
10-12-2007, 11:18 PM
Saint Al is a hipocrite who has made millions by selling and investing in energy offsets. But the secular progressive religion is the environment and Al is the high priest. Inconvenient truth is the gospel to the true believers. Pointing out that it is a baseless fabrication designed to create hysteria, is like sayng to a fundamentalist Christian that there is no eternal pit of fire inhabited by devils. True believers are not interested in, nor swayed by, evidence.

Gayle in MD
10-13-2007, 10:11 AM
Hey, we're on solid ground friend. Reasonable, well informed people have long ago stopped framing critics from the left, as crazy people. We're the ones who years ago stated that this administration was up to no good, and we were right. The evidence is overwhelming, and the righties can't take it.

They're fine with the Bush ficilitation of fascism, so were some other citizens in other times. The Bush Cheney doctrine of privatizing government response to disasters, by exploiting the nation when it is in shock, is costing them a fortune, but the small minded are focused on a tax break, which advantages the rich over the middle class. How can anyone take them seriously.

Now that they have privatized the government, nothing works, accept their original intention, to dole out no bid contracts, for campaign pay offs later, and reward a corrupt corporate fascist oil industry, with subsidies, while they are racking up the biggest profits in history, acrew the little guy at the pump. Screw the missing billions, it's only the tax payers money, let the trailors sink into the ground, let the Black Hawks piss off Iraqis by killing civilians, atleast they can pay blackhawk to shoot any American dissenters in the right side of their heads, in secret, to keep them from speaking out against this disaster. The number of American dissenters mysterously murdered in Iraq, is growing quickly. They make an ad, and a week later most of them are dead.

Sanchez has joined the outrage of a slew of retired generals, calling this disaster of incompetence exactly what it is. Bush, and those who support the party that sat silent throughout this gross attack against our Constitution, and our government, and our people, are the culprits of ignorance.

The majority of American voters, voted for Al Gore, and they were absolutely right. He is a man with great vision, and we surely would not be in ten trillions of dollars of debt right now if Bush hadn't gotten away with stealing the White House, twice. Indictments are outstanding against his Republican partners in crime in Ohio. they can out CIA agents who blow their lies out of the water, but the facts remain, they initiated impeachment, against a president who is loved all over the globe, unconstitutionally, and then completely changed their dialog in a "So What" response to lies about WMD, Mushroom clouds, yellow cake, connections to al Qaeda, aluminum tubes, all lies. Rice out there saying no one ver thought about people flying planes into buildings, absurd statements, which have been proven to be absurd, many times over, with the documents, and testimony from the counter terrorist czar, who is called a terrorist, by our brilliant floridian on here, who doesn't know Richard Clarke, from bin Laden!

The trap they set is all about continuing their misinformation, their denial of proven facts, and asking us to prove what we're saying. They can then insult, over and over, calling our well documented rebuttals redundant. Let them go to the archives. I'm done with trying to educate the uneducable. Fascism is a foot, and they helped install it with their votes, and even veterans livig with roaches and rats, slipping on ice trying to make their way across a campus for medical treatment, doesn't phase their thoroughly seated hatred of all things they paint as liberal. They spent eight years, completely obcessed with Clinton hatred, calling his attention to terrorists, and attacks for our benefit, and safety, wagging the dog. The idiots from the right were focused on blow jobs, and hate, but they say we're full of hate because we critisize the worst administration in our history, confirmed as the worst by 16 National Intelligence agencies. Nothing can force thes idiots to accept documented evidence. Bah Bah Bah. To bad that WE, those of us who do not buy into propaganda, those of us who study, and search, those of us who do care about where this country is headed after these last years of Republican corruption, waste, and lies, need not apologize for being right, about all of it, but unfortunately, we, our kids and our grand kids, must pay the price for their hatred, stupidity, corruption, and ignorance. WE're not redundant, THEY are THICK HEADED STOOGES!

**** em all.

"He who knows not, and knows not that he knows not, is a fool."

Where is bin Laden?"

Bush, "I don't know and I don't care."

"And We're going to get the people who brought down these buildings."

Yeah, right. "He's hiding, I don't think about him."

When the al Qaeda attack comes, they'll still be blaming the Clintons.





When corporations take over the government, it's fascism, plain and simple. As always, it comes with a smile, carrying a cross. The obvious Bush-Cheney colusion in this process of privatizing our government, is why Iraq is still without air conditioning, buildings built by the corporate fascist pigs, crumbling to the ground, civilians being slaughtered for no reason. Billions missing, New Orleans still looks like ground zero. Whatever America must do, the corporate fascists are ready to bilk us out of billions upon billions, while the nutty right can't see past the jury rigged numbers.

Debating with those who have bought into the "Fixed News" propaganda for a decade, is a waste of time. Authoritarian followers cannot be educated, and hence, authoritarian leaders, who always begin their travesties by using lies, are successful in bilking the tax payers to benefit their corporate fascist cronies.

Bush senior downsized the army. Reagan propped up Saddam. Clinton created the entire anti-terrorism agency, including the special bin Laden unit, and Bush dismantled it, after refusing to heed unprecedented warnings of the coming attack. Cheney, Bush and Rice, lied then, and are lying still. Only idiots would support Republicans who helped to ficilitate the attack on America's safety and security by going along with everything Bush. Yet with their undying fervor for BS, the right is still in denial, and continues to degrade all of us who have said for years that Bush is no leader, and in fact is a thief and an evil liars, who will bring our country down with the help of the sheep.

Sheep are dumb, and they stink!

Gayle in MD
10-13-2007, 10:14 AM
Bush only gives medals to incompetent people who agree not to blow his coverups. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Gayle in MD
10-13-2007, 10:33 AM
My posts are literally filled with the answer to your question. I have given excerpts from those government, countrer terrorist experts, and National security advisors, and National Security Estimates, and Senate transcripts, and links to C-Span's government investigations, and statements made by career generals, and former secretaries of state, and CIA operatives, many who have written books, walked away from promoations, extra stars on their shoulders, all exposing all the lies used by Bush to launch this illegal war. Former Federal attorney generals, who wrote books, in detail, creating mock impeachment investigations which prove that this bunch are crooks. Not only do you righties not bother to read any of it, but you insult those people, like me, and a few others here, who care enough about this country to be skeptical, and detail oriented enough to search, read and find the facts. Go look in the goddam archives. It's all there. I'm done with being abshed for redundancy. I've provided enough documentation. No more leading horses to water. Let the brilliant Wally's of the world, who think our econmy is great, while the dollar slides, and Bush runs up ten trillion dollars in debt to China, give you your answers. Ask Deeman, the guy who applauds people like Ann Coulter, and degrades a true Christian like Jimmy Carter. Ask Poolteacher, whose favorite statement is "Once again, you fail to understand" Ask Ed, who thought Richard Clarke the counter terrorist Czar, was a terrorist. Since the only answers you are interested in are the ones that might salvage your self esteem after voting for the worst president in history, probably twice, turn on Ficed News, and you'll get the answers you want. Those are the only answers the right are interested in, the ones which support their ignorant, uninformed, false premises. Go find some A-hole, who thinks a man can live inside a whale.

Is there any wonder that the right can't begin to appreciate people like al Gore? All whistle blowers, heros who speak the truth, veterans who tell us the truth, generals who tell us the truth, experts who tell us the truth, even about being censored by this corrupt administration, are the enemies of the right. If you can't see the connection between secrecy, and corruption, andthis administration, and resignations of h9onorable career government loyalists, why not just tune in Faux News, where you can get the only answers you want, just like the rest of the sheep on here.

Gayle in Md.

wolfdancer
10-13-2007, 10:51 AM
Gayle, I'd only add that we don't have to wait for the Barbarians to attack...we're already getting raped and pillaged from within....
If the seers had it right though...maybe Bush is doing God's work.....and instead of just being the "decider" and the "War President"....he may also be the "Apocalypse President"
The Lord works in mysterious ways....and nothing more mysterious then working through this caricature of a real President.
He's just a shill for ruthless corporations, and while he believes he is in charge, I believe he's being led and mislead by people much smarter then he is.
If it is true, as you write....that dissenters are being targeted and killed in Iraq, and targeted here for investigation....then we are much closer to fascism then I imagined.
The answer could come before the next President is installed.
There is little chance that a Republican could be elected, even if you include the phony counts in Ohio and Fla....even if they offer to have Jeb, Neil, and Arnie share the office,
a troika, and serve for free.....

wolfdancer
10-13-2007, 11:07 AM
Bush only gives medals to incompetent people who agree not to blow his coverups.
Given the recent arrests of a couple of top Republicans....I'm sure there's a pun hidden within that line someplace....

Gayle in MD
10-13-2007, 11:08 AM
Let the sheep, read the archives. They're on total ignore. They will no doubt frame that as the left being unable to handle their questions. BWA HA HA HA /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif Truth is, the left on here is no longer able to abide their complete ignorance. A bit of humility is in order. They were wrong, we were right. End of story. Wally can give them the protocal for snipers on the CCb, our brilliant pot shot pundit who focuses on tax spending, while Bush is borrowing trillions, while wasting billions.

Hey, our brilliant Al Gore, the great man who said this foreign policy would be a disasterous mistake. Our John Kerry, wrong war, wrong time, wrong place. How very prophetic. No wonder the right must resort to the usual Republican tactics, accuse the knowledgable of hatred, to cover up for their own past obsessive hatred of all things Clinton. You'll never hear them mention that it was Clinton who created the entire counter terrorism program, and it worked, the warnings came through, in plenty of time to avert the 9/11 disaster, but Bush didn't want to "Swat Flies" Three goddamn months he had to do something. What did he do? NOTHING! ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. He went fishing the day he got the intelligence from the CIA. HE WENT FISHING! What did he do the day of the attack? He READ a childrens book about a GOAT~! Then he invaded a country that had nothing to do with it.

Hey, a blow job ain't nothing compared to that. I'd rather have a Chinaman in the Lyncoln Bedroom, than bin Ladens family in bed with the POTUS! who came from a family who made their fortune doing business with HITLER!

It's absurd for people like us to even waste our time debating with these geniuses.

Gayle in Md.

Gayle in MD
10-13-2007, 11:15 AM
Hey, we're taking about a man who brags about catching a fish in his own pond! Maybe Mommy Barbara put it in there, a little surprise for sonny. Even then, he got caught lying about the length! LMAO. He caught a fish, that didn't exist, BWA HA HA HA /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif Kind of like creating intelligence, that didn't exist, huh? Man, that must have been a real swift boat he was in when he caught that fish!
I don't know what this country would do without these creative republicans. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Gayle in Md.

Gayle in MD
10-13-2007, 11:31 AM
No Republican ended the cold war. The Soviet Union fell on its own. As for weapons technology, to China, that has never been documented. Although, we do now that REagan propped up Saddam. Created the Talliban. Sold arms to the Contras. and the Bush's have been in bed with the Saudis, and bin Laden's family. for years, and flew them all out of the country to protect them, on 9/11, We DO know that, don't we?

What Republican ever ended a decades, or centuries old grudge between Nations? NONE.

There is nothing good about Bush. That's why 70% of the people say this country is headed in the worng direction. That's why only 5% percent anything he says about this war. That's why we've lost allies. Lost respect in the world. That's why he can't go anywhere unless they sweep all the protesters away first, can't even throw out the first baseball. You are the one full of Gobbledegook, Deeman, and have been for years. You admire people like Anne Coulter? What does that say about YOUR judgment. You called her such a fine specimen of an American? since then she attacked the widows of 9/11. this week she stated that the job of Christians is to "Perfect" the jews. You got a great talent, for sucking up to the worst of the worst.

Carter didn't indulge Iran. Carter solved a big problem, through diplomacy, something no Republican knows anything about. something they frame as terrorist loving, because they don't know how to do it, and they can't get behind anything that doesn't include the bombs and the banners, and the big bands, and theatrics.

Bush is bad. He's bad at everything. Sorry if I don't make up Bs to color him another way. Two thirds in this country think as I do. Where does that leave your analytical ability? I don't have to prove it, to people who pay attention, they already know, they're not part of the nutty 28% who can't follow the dots on the menu.

I have no shame about Venom for Bush, or Hitler. Two peas in a pod. Same tactics, same results. Dead people, corruption, lies and propaganda. I suppose you're all for it? Have YOU no shame? You abviously have no humility about supported a total dufus, who blew trillions and put this country in a disaster that can't be solved. Who are YOU, to be critical of ME.

I suppose you didn't learn about the secret meetings Cheney had with corporate oil CEO's? HA HA HA, no surprise there.

I'll tell you who is despicable, the people who were dumb enough to vote for this idiot, and the people who attack those who were right about him because they can't own up to their own ignorance and poor judgement, and you fit that bill to a T! The people who followed and believed in Hitler suffered from the same authoritarian loving flaws in their character that you righties on here suffer from. The results have been the same. Dead people. Corporate fascism. Propaganda swallowed up like M &amp; M's, couldn't get enough, could you, just suck it up like the last bottle of Rum. Still sucking it up to this day. Deny everything, in spite of the proof.

Take a big dose of humility, Deeman, YOU voted for this idiotic nincompoop, TWICE. Over two thirds in this country say he's been a total disaster. Where do you get off calling me names? YOU were the dummy, not me. And don't twist my words, I have never approved of Hitlers doings, anymore than I approved of Preston Bush selling him the ovens to commit his genocide, or ronald Reagan selling arms to hostages, or Reagan and Bush propping up Saddam, or Bush Sr. downsizing the Army, or cheny and Bush and Baker, and the rest of your Republican corporate Fascist lovers doing business with Iran, and the bin Ladens. If there is any group who should be ashamed, YOUR IN IT!

Gayle in Md.

bamadog
10-13-2007, 12:14 PM
You are truly delusional. If it weren't so sad, it would be funny.
Constantly repeating your fictions do not make them truths.
There is probably a community college in your neighborhood that offers a course in critical thinking. Do yourself, and the rest of us who endure your ill-constructed rants, a favor---ENROLL!

wolfdancer
10-13-2007, 02:16 PM
I take it then...that you and Deeman won't be exchanging Xmas cards again this year?
You know, we all tend to speak in absolutes here, and to lump people together in one group, then assign the worst traits of that group to them. It's not quite fair, but nothings fair in pool or politics (I think that's how the saying goes)
Political discussion seems to bring out the anger in us.
The difference between us Gayle, is that you still have hope, that "this too shall pass"....but I think the damage done these last 6 years can never be undone.
I think anybody that voted for GWB, did so with the best intentions, believing he was the best man for the job.
After all that has happened though, it's hard for me to understand why some doubt hasn't popped up.
Anyway, while you and Deeman may never see eye to eye about politics....you're both good people....and both my role models for when I grow up

sack316
10-13-2007, 03:33 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> My posts are literally filled with the answer to your question. I have given excerpts from those government, countrer terrorist experts, and National security advisors, and National Security Estimates, and Senate transcripts, and links to C-Span's government investigations, and statements made by career generals, and former secretaries of state, and CIA operatives, many who have written books, walked away from promoations, extra stars on their shoulders, all exposing all the lies used by Bush to launch this illegal war. Former Federal attorney generals, who wrote books, in detail, creating mock impeachment investigations which prove that this bunch are crooks. Not only do you righties not bother to read any of it, but you insult those people, like me, and a few others here, who care enough about this country to be skeptical, and detail oriented enough to search, read and find the facts. Go look in the goddam archives. It's all there. I'm done with being abshed for redundancy. I've provided enough documentation. No more leading horses to water. Let the brilliant Wally's of the world, who think our econmy is great, while the dollar slides, and Bush runs up ten trillion dollars in debt to China, give you your answers. Ask Deeman, the guy who applauds people like Ann Coulter, and degrades a true Christian like Jimmy Carter. Ask Poolteacher, whose favorite statement is "Once again, you fail to understand" Ask Ed, who thought Richard Clarke the counter terrorist Czar, was a terrorist. Since the only answers you are interested in are the ones that might salvage your self esteem after voting for the worst president in history, probably twice, turn on Ficed News, and you'll get the answers you want. Those are the only answers the right are interested in, the ones which support their ignorant, uninformed, false premises. Go find some A-hole, who thinks a man can live inside a whale.

Is there any wonder that the right can't begin to appreciate people like al Gore? All whistle blowers, heros who speak the truth, veterans who tell us the truth, generals who tell us the truth, experts who tell us the truth, even about being censored by this corrupt administration, are the enemies of the right. If you can't see the connection between secrecy, and corruption, andthis administration, and resignations of h9onorable career government loyalists, why not just tune in Faux News, where you can get the only answers you want, just like the rest of the sheep on here.

Gayle in Md. <hr /></blockquote>

And all that is fine dear. I, in fact, have always listened to and respected your opinions (even when I do not agree). And even have once or twice come to you and asked questions about things in an effort to gain a better understanding of your thoughts. And through all things, I feel I have always been patient, understanding, and respectful of your posts.

But what bothers me is that you automatically disqualify any repubs thoughts or opinions because you don't feel it is the "truth"... ever. Any documentation, report, or post presented from a righty on here is immediately dismissed by you or others as a falsehood-- generally because your belief is all such things are created by a biased source to cover up some other "truth". While at the same time any source, journal, or report you see or read is somehow instantly true because your source of information MUST be completly accurate and is obviously unbiased. Every Fox news report must be right wing spin, but anything Keith Olbermann says couldn't possibly be just the vice versa of that... it's just automatically true. The fact of the matter is that the sword cuts both ways, but for some reason you can't see that part (and for the same token I'll even admit some righties here don't either).

And do I appreciate anything about Al Gore? I appreciate anything any person does that has some ideal of value and improvement of life. But do I feel he had actually accomplished something worthy of this particular award? No... or to AT LEAST be fair, I'll say not yet (ok?). He and the left are taking something and using fear to try to garner attention for what they want. Much as you would say Bush and the right have done with terrorism and the war. Somehow I feel if a dem had been in office and gone to war, while a repub made a documentary, we'd be having these same discussions only with you on the other side then and the others doing the same.

Sack

LWW
10-13-2007, 04:39 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bamadog:</font><hr> You are truly delusional. If it weren't so sad, it would be funny.
Constantly repeating your fictions do not make them truths.
There is probably a community college in your neighborhood that offers a course in critical thinking. Do yourself, and the rest of us who endure your ill-constructed rants, a favor---ENROLL! <hr /></blockquote>
Dawg, I'm starting to think there is a leftist cult here.

I thought hippie was out of touch.

I wonder how many here are believers in the BIG STONE OWL ?

LWW

wolfdancer
10-13-2007, 04:47 PM
"He and the left are taking something and using fear to try to garner attention for what they want. "
You mean like observable, measurable data?....AND, what is so sinister that they want? alternate energy, reduction of greenhouse gasses, less dependence on imported oil? America more self reliant, and not controlled by "Big Oil" ?
Well, fortunately for Al, you weren't on the Nobel Prize Committee. Maybe they'll try to even things up for both parties, and award Bush the prize for economics....
Re: the War....I believe that the whole country was behind the Gulf War, due to the invasion of Kuwait. That invasion was no surprise though...GWB dumped his shares of HEC just prior to the invasion.
Alan Greenspan was on the other day with some interesting comments, and since he's served both sides, I'd say he is unbiased.
He said that he's been watching Saddam for 30 years, and figured that Saddam's intent was to control the flow of oil from the Mid-East....he was also surprised that Saddam had not bought Nuclear weapons from the Russians.
So while I think the reasons stated for this war are total BS, and were made up under direction of GWB so that he could declare War....
if it was a preventive strike..there may be some justification.
In retrospect, he should have been taken out after the first defeat...and not allowed years to secretly rebuild his power and network......but then having an enemy that you can take out at any time could be very useful....that will get you reelected, and allow the $$$$$$ to be distributed, without any questions
Allen also found a positive for the weak dollar....this will allow our exports to increase....somebody forgot to tell Allen that we no longer manufacture anything here....all we got is some surplus farm crops.
But it seemed he did know about the loss of our old manufacturing jobs, but thought the new technology industries were the way to go, and we are better off....
Well, that's good news...I guess in the event of an all out war, Microsoft can gear up in a few months like Ford and Kaiser did, and begin building Tanks, aircraft, and ships.
Course we'd have to borrow the money from China...and they're beginning to favor the Euro more then the dollar....
But as long as we have "The Decider"...no problem...

pooltchr
10-13-2007, 06:08 PM
Wolf,
for the sake of arguement, let's say that our climate is getting warmer, and humans are the cause. Personally, I think our impact on the world's environment is rather insignificant in the scope of things, but that's for a different thread.
I guess the biggest factors would be manufacturing, energy production and transportation. What alternatives would you propose to replace aircraft, trucks, automobiles, electric power plants, and the few manufacturing plants we still have operating in this country? If we continue to restrict the development of nuclear power, our only option is steam generators, which require burning fossil fuels to heat water to create steam to turn the turbines. The coal is transported primarily by truck and train. Are we willing to cut back on our use of electricity to fight the problem? The fact is, there is no viable alternative to meet the ever increasing demand for electricity.
As our population grows (not even counting the illegal alien invaders) demand for electricity, automobiles, food, and all the other items we love to consume will continue to grow as well. More people, more greenhouse gases.

What should we do about the airline industry. Those big jets consume jet fuel like Rosie O'Donnel at a breakfast buffet. Should we cut back on air travel? That may not be in the best interest of our economy. We have a global economy that requires people to move around the world much more than in the past.

And along comes Algore, who tells us we should all change our lightbulbs, while jetting around the country promoting his "cause".

Maybe if we could get him to shut up for a while and stay home, the reduction in hot air might lead to the dawn of a new ice age!

I also noticed he is sharing his prize with the UN...now THERE'S some good company to be keeping!

Steve

wolfdancer
10-13-2007, 07:32 PM
Steve, I don't have any answers, just concerns. Nuclear power sounds great, but then you remember Chernobyl and 3 mile island...and wonder if they would also become Terrorist targets. I also read a long time ago...that they create thermal pollution....raise the temp of the sea water that cools the primary cooling loop...as deep as the oceans are, that seems like it wouldn't be a concern, but that's what the author claimed.
There are studies that show huge savings...power for another 10k homes, etc....by switching to low wattage bulbs. I understand that's a reg. now in SF...and another good one is no plastic bags allowed for groceries, etc.
The U. N. is far from perfect...but at least there is dialog going on between nations. we're rightly so, concerned about the middle East....but what is happening in Africa is appalling.
And I understand that "liquid coal" may be a viable source of energy...but these are things that the 20 somethings should be concerned about, for their later years, and for their children, and children's children....not some old recluse up here in Wa....

sack316
10-13-2007, 10:48 PM
"I don't have any answers, just concerns"

Exactly, and neither does he... which is why I said "not yet" in my earlier post, Wolfie. Has he done a good job of attempting to educate and raise awareness? Of course he has (whether I agree with him or not). But has he done enough to earn this particular distinction? I don't think so.

Gore touts his concerns and supposed facts, as he jets around spreading the message, gets done and jets back home to his power sucking mansion- using more than 20 times the national average for a household, and hops in his heated swimming pool for a nice soak.

Now before I hear about him purchasing his offsets to bring his carbon footprint down to zero--- that's great and all, but it's actually provided to him as more of an employee benefit from GIM. So I seriously doubt the personal cost or sacrifice from him is much, if anything at all. So then the average person who can't afford such things should take shorter showers and ride their bikes, simply because they can't afford to reduce their impact any other way. Hmm... the wealthy having to take less of a hit just because they can while Joe Blow has to do the bulk of the suffering... sounds eerily familiar to something you dems hate so much about the other side. But don't listen to that, it's all partisan slant.

His movie ends asking "are you ready to change the way you live?" I wonder if he is.

Sack

Qtec
10-13-2007, 11:16 PM
web page (http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.asp)

Q

sack316
10-14-2007, 02:52 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> web page (http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.asp)

Q <hr /></blockquote>

from a dictionary:

cre·ate
verb, -at·ed, -at·ing, adjective
–verb (used with object)
1. to cause to come into being, as something unique that would not naturally evolve or that is not made by ordinary processes.
2. to evolve from one's own thought or imagination, as a work of art or an invention.

in·vent
–verb (used with object)
1. to originate or create as a product of one's own ingenuity, experimentation, or contrivance


From a thesaurus:

Main Entry: create
Part of Speech: verb
Definition: develop
Synonyms: actualize, author, beget, build, coin, compose, conceive, concoct, constitute, construct, contrive, design, devise, discover, dream up, effect, erect, establish, fabricate, fashion, father, forge, form, formulate, found, generate, hatch, imagine, initiate, institute, invent , invest, make, occasion, organize, originate, parent, perform, plan, procreate, produce, rear, set up, shape, sire, spawn, start
Antonyms: demolish, destroy, ruin


Sack

LWW
10-14-2007, 03:13 AM
Al probably was the modern inventor of the "PHONY SOLDIER" also.

LWW

Gayle in MD
10-15-2007, 08:52 AM
Sack, I'm sorry, as I should have used the word "They" when referring to the idiocy on this board. You've always been fairly reasonable, in you're questions, and posts, and I'm sorry that you caught some of my wrath, didn't mean to include you as a reciever.

As for your question, I really don't get my information from the news programs, although some are worth watching, my documentation comes from independant sources within our government, National Security Estimates, intelligence which is accessable on government sights, watching live C-Span coverage, and interviews, and also interviews and documentaries on Public Television.

As for those whistle blowers, and authors who are also whistle blowers, they hold a great deal of weight with me, because they take risks, in order to protect all of us from this corrupt administration. Their numbers, are truly unprecedented, since our country has not experienced such an attack from within in several hundred years. The documentation provided within their books, is also reviewable. The timelines, included in many of them, provide documentation of government intelligence, and compare them with the dates, against statements made by Cheney, Bush, Rice, and Rumsfeld, Gonzales, Comey, you name it, it's all there. But let's just say this much, if one doubts that this administration has been decietful, unlawful, and corrupt, IMO, they're beyond any reasonable amount of documentation. They're still riding on extreme hatred of what they mistakenly view as "Liberal" and hatred of the Clinton's. They hate the Clinton's for having won the election, the same way they will always hate Jimmy Carter.

When Department Of Justice AG's speak out about improper actions taken by Republican Senators, and their own attorney General, they are met with a great deal of trouble, lose money, and lose respect, for a time, until they have the opportunity to be sworn in to testify. They have willingly done so, as have many other government employees, who have risked their personal peace, livelihood, and financial future, and reputations, knowing that they would be slandered for their patriotic actions. We've seen this over and over, in the Military, as well as within our Government agencies. When one watches this display, live, one is struck by the obvious differences between those who choose to take the fifth, under false pretenses of national security, in order to cover up for the administration, and those who speak out in the interest of high intention. It is quite easy to gleen the differences.

Take for example a man like Richard Clarke, who has been demonized by people on this board, who don't have a clue about his devotion, his addiction, actually, to getting bin Laden, and breaking into terrorist plots. The man was completely devoted to protecting America, known for it, and completely non-partisan, having worked for Republican and Democratic presidents. His book is a thorough documentation of the gross incompetence, and worse, carelessness of the Bush administration. They were completely asleep at the wheel, and it was a result of their own ignorance, and arrogance, in coming to power at a time of a coming threat, and chosing to ignore it. Richard Clarke's testimony to the Senate, was completely devoid of any sour grapes, believe me, but unless one watched, live, one could not possibly see the heartfelt power of his testimony. Likewise, when the fired attornies general testified, and likewise, when Valarie Plame testified. My great sorrow, is that Americans do not have the time, or take the time, to qualify their opinions, with the available documentation. That phenomena, is something that every American suffers for in the end, because when there are among us, those who make their judgements from partisanship, and delete provable information, out of pettiness, America loses, and we all lose.

Al Gore's award of the Nobel Peace Price, is a commentary to the fact that Oil, is a factor in the aim of global peace, and that Jimmy Carter, long ago, tried to get America to prepare for this reality, and he was ridiculed by Americans who wanted comfort, instead of having to confront the coming disaster. Ronald Reagan, as did Bush Sr., and eventually Bush Jr., set our country on a path of self denial, to benefit Corporate interests in the energy arena. It was irresponsible, unrealistic, and decietful, and it was the beginning of the great threat we now face with Islamist Radical Terrorism. We now face a hidden proxy government, designed to keep the actions, and resulting responsibility for those actions, of our own government, out of the sight and scrutiny of ordinary Americans, which results from politicians facilitating the corporate privatizing of our own military, and government. This is what Republicans want, and this is what will continue to bring about fascism. In history, we see that religion is always present, in these manueverings, and that fear, lies, and hidden governing, always required for such inhumane intentions to succeed.

Let's look, for a moment, at the use of corporations in Iraq. These owners, have connections to Bush and Cheney, business connections that have existed since before Bush SR., was ever even in the White House, in some cases. They also finance the very Think Tank, the American Enterprise Institute, which pushed for an American occupation in Iraq, and is responsible also for a good deal of the corruption in Iraq, and the loss of Iraqi support of American troops. Since they have no bid contracts, and being private, no oversight, they are able to rape, kill, and otherwise piliage the country as they please. They serve a further purpose for Cheney, and Bush, in that they are able to funnel money to corporate interests, which will funnel money into Republican campaigns. Additionally, these corporate fascists, assist the Bush administration in allowing them to keep the numbers of American families effected by the war, to a minimum, and hence ward off a greater public outcry against the war.

Corruption is not a good thing, ever, in any government, and when the emotions of those from the right, have been so thoroughly exploited by Republicn Corporate interests, and religious undertakings to be able to dictate private, personal behavior of all, under false pretenses, of course, our country is at great risk, IMO, much greater risk than any risk from foreign shores.

Gayle in Md.

Deeman3
10-15-2007, 09:06 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SKennedy:</font><hr> Can Gayle swin in muddy waters? <hr /></blockquote> <font color="blue">

With cloven holves, I don't think so. </font color>

Gayle in MD
10-15-2007, 09:46 AM
Thanks Q. Obviously, Republicans have spread this lie for decades. I wonder how they keep all their lies straight?

Gore will be around long after little Bushy has retreated to his make believe ranch, and gone back to catching make believe fish, only we won't see him riding the range with smile-nod Laura in his retirement, Like Reagan and Nancy, he's afraid of horses, LMAO! He's a windshield cowboy.

/ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

eg8r
10-15-2007, 09:50 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I think Americans should forget party lines, and be proud that an American has won a Noble Prize. <hr /></blockquote> I knew I smelled smoke, wolf was thinking. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Gore won the prize on a bunch of lies, I can understand why that makes you proud.

eg8r

Gayle in MD
10-15-2007, 09:58 AM
Well, there you have it Wolf, the Republican cure for global warming, basically, awe, the problem is too big, let's just pretend it doesn't exist, and make fun of all those leaders who are committed to bring the issue under global scrutiny, and finding solutions.

There was a time when people believed that man would never fly, fortunately, there were a couple of brothers, who decided to prove them wrong.

There is really no excuse for anyone to make fun of Al Gore. The man has high intention. He doesn't claim to have all the answers, but he does work to bring together those experts who can help find the answers. However, our sheep, don't see the connection between Bush gagging our scientists, censoring their reports, which we all pay for, BTW, in order to keep this country as addicted to oil as possible, and his family history in the oil industry, along with Cheney's, and the contrributors to the American Enterprise Institute.

I'm buying stock in crayons for the next election. I still tyhink the people, we 72% of realists, will demand that Republican follow the dots until they reach a decernable picture, before they can vote!

/ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

eg8r
10-15-2007, 09:58 AM
[ QUOTE ]
No Republican ended the cold war. The Soviet Union fell on its own. <hr /></blockquote> gayle, the queen of revisionist history.

eg8r

LWW
10-15-2007, 10:04 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> &lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
No Republican ended the cold war. The Soviet Union fell on its own. <hr /></blockquote> gayle, the queen of revisionist history.

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>

I knew I couldn't be the only one.

Take heart brother, they know the truth...it just doesn't matter.

"If it doesn't fit...we must omit!

LWW

DickLeonard
10-15-2007, 10:09 AM
Eg8r Lech Walensa brought down the Wall. Not some actor playing president.####

SKennedy
10-15-2007, 10:13 AM
Ever seen a really mean horse?

SKennedy
10-15-2007, 10:17 AM
Global warming will go down as one of the biggest jokes ever. 50 years from now Gore will be one of the biggest jokes ever....(or the biggest hero if I'm wrong).

eg8r
10-15-2007, 10:26 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Eg8r Lech Walensa brought down the Wall. Not some actor playing president.#### <hr /></blockquote> Sorry Dick, you are not a queen of anything best I know, you are just a tagalong.

eg8r

Wally_in_Cincy
10-15-2007, 10:35 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SKennedy:</font><hr> Global warming will go down as one of the biggest jokes ever. 50 years from now Gore will be one of the biggest jokes ever....(or the biggest hero if I'm wrong). <hr /></blockquote>

An Inconvenient Truth will be the Reefer Madness of 2050

I just wish I could be there to see it

bamadog
10-15-2007, 10:42 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Well, there you have it Wolf, the Republican cure for global warming, basically, awe, the problem is too big, let's just pretend it doesn't exist, and make fun of all those leaders who are committed to bring the issue under global scrutiny, and finding solutions.

There was a time when people believed that man would never fly, fortunately, there were a couple of brothers, who decided to prove them wrong.

There is really no excuse for anyone to make fun of Al Gore. The man has high intention. He doesn't claim to have all the answers, but he does work to bring together those experts who can help find the answers. However, our sheep, don't see the connection between Bush gagging our scientists, censoring their reports, which we all pay for, BTW, in order to keep this country as addicted to oil as possible, and his family history in the oil industry, along with Cheney's, and the contrributors to the American Enterprise Institute.

I'm buying stock in crayons for the next election. I still tyhink the people, we 72% of realists, will demand that Republican follow the dots until they reach a decernable picture, before they can vote!

/ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Gayle, you are so far down in the move on.org rat hole, no wonder no truth seems to get to you.
BTW, see if you can answer this simple question:
why hasn't Al Qaeda been able to mount an attack on our shores since 9/11?

Deeman3
10-15-2007, 10:52 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bamadog:</font><hr> BTW, see if you can answer this simple question:
why hasn't Al Qaeda been able to mount an attack on our shores since 9/11? <hr /></blockquote> <font color="blue">

Al Gore frightened them off. </font color>

Chopstick
10-15-2007, 11:04 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SKennedy:</font><hr> Global warming will go down as one of the biggest jokes ever. 50 years from now Gore will be one of the biggest jokes ever....(or the biggest hero if I'm wrong). <hr /></blockquote>

My daddy mentioned global warming to me the other day and was concerned about humans causing it. I just said, "Well, the ice caps are melting on Mars too. Did we cause that?" He just said, I see your point. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Mars polar caps melting. (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070228-mars-warming.html)

I actually read Hansen's original papers on the subject and his testimony to Congress along with the testimony of the other scientists that did not agree with him.

Have you ever read any of Edward Lorenz's work on weather? "sensitive dependence upon initial conditions". So, if the flapping of a single butterfly's wing can radically alter weather conditions across the entire planet making weather prediction impossible except in the crudest terms and only for a very short period, how can anyone know what the weather is going to do in 50 or 100 years?

There is one thing I am certain of, and that is that there are far too many people running around that are certain about things. Big Al knows exactly what the temperature is going to be in 2050 but when it comes to the 2000 election he gets a little fuzzy on the numbers.

So, the want to give ole Al the Nobel peace prize. Why shouldn't they? They gave one to friggin Yasser Arafat.

LWW
10-15-2007, 11:33 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bamadog:</font><hr>Gayle, you are so far down in the move on.org rat hole, no wonder no truth seems to get to you.
BTW, see if you can answer this simple question:
why hasn't Al Qaeda been able to mount an attack on our shores since 9/11? <hr /></blockquote>
It's simple Dawg.

As Soros' people declared, the DNC was theirs...they bought it and paid for it.

Why would you expect a neoleft sheepbot to disagree?

LWW

Gayle in MD
10-15-2007, 12:11 PM
Hey Q., check this out, I'm posting this as I thought you might be interested in it, not for the nutty right, they think the moon is made of green cheese, and people can live inside of whales, and that George Bush, is a Christian Conservative, need I say more?

From this author...

Raymond J. Learsy is the author of the book Over a Barrel: Breaking the Middle East Oil Cartel. A graduate of the Wharton School, he made his life in the fast-paced, risk-filled world of commodities trading, beginning in 1959. In 1963, he started his own firm and over twenty years expanded from the U.S. into Canada, the United Kingdom, Luxembourg, Brazil, and Pakistan, trading in an array of bulk raw materials and commodities, shipping to customers worldwide. In the 1980s, he shifted gears as a private investor, from 1982 to 1988, served as a Reagan appointee to the National Endowment for the Arts. Currently, he is a member of the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars. Learsy's richly-informed analysis of the international oil trade, OPEC, and its impact on the American and world economy has been featured in the National Review Online and the New York Times.



Ramond J. Learsy, link, www.huffingtonpost.com (http://www.huffingtonpost.com)


It's enough to turn a thoughtful reader into an uneasy and puzzled penguin. One week's newspaper headlines warn that the strikingly rapid pace of ice melting in the Arctic may be at a "tipping point," the critical juncture at which the thaw turns into a self-sustaining calamity. Meanwhile, the Southern Ocean that encircles Antarctica seems to be absorbing less carbon (not a good thing), and the ever-warming atmosphere is causing more frequent drought in the Amazon basin leading in part to such seemingly arcane side effects as causing plagues of beetles that are denuding pine forests in Alaska and parts of Canada. But before one can fully digest the scope of the potential disaster, come headlines the following week that tell of oil and gas companies cheerily gearing up to tap the newly accessible mother lodes of fossil fuels sitting at the soon-to-be ice-free top of the world -- despite the fact that these elements are the acknowledged culprit in what is shaping up as an almost unavoidable global catastrophe.


From Germany's Potsdam Institute for Climate Research, we learn that all the models have apparently underestimated the speed at which the Arctic ice is melting; indeed, the ice has "already tipped," the institute says. In other words, the ice has shrunk to the point where there is too little of it reflecting the sun's warming rays back into the atmosphere and too much dark ocean water absorbing the heat of those rays, thus creating a vicious circle that further speeds up the warming trend. If the German scientists are correct, the polar icecap may already be a lost cause. And, its melting will threaten indigenous Arctic populations and wildlife such as polar bears, which will drown from exhaustion as they search for a resting place on icebergs that are no longer there.

Scary? Yes. But perhaps not as scary as The New York Times piece that appeared October 9 detailing Norway's successful quest to mount "the first commercial energy production from waters north of the Arctic Circle." Typically, the Times reporter couldn't resist lending a helping hand to the oil and gas industry, making its case for rationalizing current and ever higher prices for by admiringly informing us that $200 billion was spent developing new energy projects last year. It then continues in the fawning and unquestioning fashion of The New York Times pertaining all matters related to the oil industry, informing us these $200 billion "are an amount larger than the economies of 147 countries."

No mention of course, that with the world consuming approximately 83 million barrels per day, or 30.295 billion barrels per year, at today's prices of over $80 per barrel, the world's oil companies still have something on the order of $2.23 trillion of revenue to divvy up among themselves. That is for crude oil alone and not counting the munificent margins on down stream products such a gasoline and fuel oil.

Another "point" the New York Times reporter left up in the air concerns the justification for today's $80/bbl-plus price for oil. He acknowledged that the industry's discovery and development costs add up to "nearly $15 a barrel," and that is for new sources, conveniently overlooking the fact that installed capacity is pumping away at production costs averaging significantly less then $10 a barrel, thereby leaving readers to wonder about the reasons for a more than 400 to 800 percent markup! But don't hold your breath waiting for the New York Times to go there, other than feeding us the usual oil industry pabulum that it's all due to "market forces"

But I digress. The point I wish to make is the tragedy inherent in this hell-bent rush to satisfy the world's growing appetite for fossil fuels when what we should be doing is looking for any and every way possible to rein in that appetite. Yet, as the dire predictions of global warming come into focus with ever more chilling (pun intended) accuracy and rapidity, our leadership in Washington continues to sit on their hands. No one in power calls for mandatory curbs on manufacturers' deadly emissions of carbon dioxide or initiatives to reduce Americans' use of fossil fuels or serious policies to encourage the development and distribution of alternative energy sources. Rather, the big breakthrough from this administration is its pathetic concession that there is indeed such a thing as global warming, with all its deadly consequences. But should we gear up to do something meaningful to reverse this catastrophe before it's too late? No, says our Madam Secretary of State, speaking on behalf of our president, let's just stress the need for new environmental technology and put our faith in voluntary measures to limit CO2 emissions. Sorry, folks, but faith-based initiatives won't work here. If voluntarism was a viable approach, we wouldn't be in the mess we're in. After all, it's not as if this notion of global warming is an altogether new one.

So, in the face of a world besotted with oil and a U.S. president who aids and abets the industry's machinations, what can worried citizens do to focus attention on interrupting the destabilizing process that is the process of wreaking havoc around the world? Thomas Homer-Dixon, a professor at the University of Toronto, writing recently in a New York Times op-ed piece entitled, "A Swiftly Melting Planet," reminds us that, in the 1960s, mothers by the tens of thousands organized a campaign that virtually halted atmospheric testing of nuclear weapons. Fearing that their children risked childhood leukemia from drinking milk containing radioactive material, these women banded together to demand change and they got it. The threat global warming poses to our children and grandchildren may be even more catastrophic.

The time has passed for wishing and hoping that someone else will fix this problem. Now, anyone and everyone who wishes the only world we have well, but also to have it prosper and survive must stand up and be counted -- before it's too late. And a final thought, perhaps those 'hanging chads' in Florida did us all a favor after all. If not for them, Al Gore would have been dealing with a recalcitrant Congress, and the Nobel champion of this crucial issue would have been waylaid deep in party politics. Listening to all the presumptive candidates, we now know how compelling and constructive that happens to be.

Raymond Learsy is the author of the updated "Over a Barrel: Breaking Oil's Stranglehold on Our Future."



<font color="red"> </font color>

Over a Barrel: Breaking the Middle East Oil Cartel
by Raymond J. Learsy

SKennedy
10-15-2007, 12:35 PM
Gayle, did you sell all your oil company stock and put it all into wind turbines yet?

wolfdancer
10-15-2007, 12:53 PM
I was going to get a petition started here, and then forward it to the Prez...for a national Al Gore day...sounds like you won't be signing....
If you believe that he won based on lies....what does that say about the Nobel Prize Selection Committee? Wouldn't that mean all their past selections are suspect?
Let's see now, if you can win a Nobel, based on lies....then GWB must already be in line for one....
Let's face it you elected a POS, and don't know how to cut your losses. Just take a look at your neighbor's 12 yr old son....and think that in 5 or 6 years, he'll be swept up into this Mission Accomplished war.
Fact is that anybody raising a child right now is also raising a potential conscript to meet the needs of this "hundred years war". Maybe they ought to start selling camouflage diapers, so that people could get used to the idea....that their young just might become cannon fodder for big oil....

wolfdancer
10-15-2007, 01:15 PM
Nah, it was the ghost of Ronald Reagan. The live RR scared the enemy so much, they willingly gave up the hostages on his inaugural day, they were in such fear.
Or just maybe...and this is only a hypothetical....maybe, since 9/11...accomplished an unexpected windfall for them...another 4 years of the dumbest President to date, and one that was sure to do more damage to America's prestige then they could ever hope to accomplish....
maybe they just want him to stay there, pat himself on the back for getting Saddam, while now forgetting about Bin Laden.
Question: why do people want to pat GWB on the back, giving him credit for no more terrorist attacks....and overlook the fact that he ignored all warnings prior to 9/11?

bamadog
10-15-2007, 01:22 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> Nah, it was the ghost of Ronald Reagan. The live RR scared the enemy so much, they willingly gave up the hostages on his inaugural day, they were in such fear.
Or just maybe...and this is only a hypothetical....maybe, since 9/11...accomplished an unexpected windfall for them...another 4 years of the dumbest President to date, and one that was sure to do more damage to America's prestige then they could ever hope to accomplish....
maybe they just want him to stay there, pat himself on the back for getting Saddam, while now forgetting about Bin Laden.
Question: why do people want to pat GWB on the back, giving him credit for no more terrorist attacks....and overlook the fact that he ignored all warnings prior to 9/11? <hr /></blockquote>

Are you aware that Clinton and his deputies Sandy Burglar and Richard Clarke had Bin Laden in their sights several times but ordered special ops to stand down? Or is that just an inconvenient truth?
Quick, ask Gayle what the answer is!

wolfdancer
10-15-2007, 01:23 PM
It's amazing, but it seems the republicans are all experts in climatology. Thus they can dismiss all the measurable data, the scientific studies,the observable phenomina etc.....
Actually in much less then 50 years, when you're using a rowboat to get to work....and Kentucky, Tennessee, Idaho, and Nevada are now coastal states....the joke just might be on you

LWW
10-15-2007, 01:25 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Hey Q., check this out, I'm posting this as I thought you might be interested in it, not for the nutty right, they think the moon is made of green cheese, and people can live inside of whales, and that George Bush, is a Christian Conservative, need I say more?<hr /></blockquote>
Where did you hide the real Gayle sweetie?

I'm waitibng to be "ran off the board" as I was promised by your fact based intellectual discourse.

All I've found is a group who slanders all of those who disagree and then beotches about intolerance when they back up their story...which I have noticed you never seem to want to do..
LWW

DickLeonard
10-15-2007, 01:27 PM
Eg8r I fail to understand the Queen reference but it seems like all the Queens are closet Republicans.####

Gayle in MD
10-15-2007, 01:29 PM
LMAO, this has got to be one of your top funniest, truest posts. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Here we are friend, thrown back to the depths of ignorance and from a whole new bunch of sheep. Idiotic statements abound. Old SH** already proven false. I have them on my total ignore list.
[ QUOTE ]
I wonder how that sticks in his craw...the guy he stole the election from, getting more worldwide acclaim then he gets?


<hr /></blockquote>

Must get to him pretty badly, since he had to acknowledge Global Warming as a real threat. I don't think these new jerks on here even watch press conferences. They're still peddling lies that Bush has already been forced to acknowledge.

BTW, Frontline will air another documentary on Cheney's destruction of the laws and our Constitution, called "Cheney's Law" tuesday night, and probably will have even more info on how he cherry picked intelligence to send our troops into battle in Iraq, a country which was no immediate threat, according to our own National Security Estimates.

Three thousand people, American Citizens, dead, due to 9/11, another almost four thousand more, dead, over thrity thousand injured, in Iraq, all because Bush wouldn't listen to warnings from our anti-terrorism experts, and respected Generals, or pay attention to a classifed warning, "bin Laden Determined to Attack Inside The United States." and these A-holes are on here raving that George Bush, has the ability to keep this country safe! The only president to get intelligence, months in advance warnimg of a coming attack, here on our shores, and ignore it. HE WENT FISHING! BWA HA HA HA....bah bah bah. Rice said he wasn't going to swat at flies, ha, those flies brought down two skyscrapers.

Cheney told our CIA and National Security experts, he didn't want to hear about any country but Iraq, right after they took office. Clinton warned him, told him that al Qaeda should be his biggest concern. Bush wouldn't listen. Richard Clarke, and Tom O'Neil, both stated they did everything but jump up on his desk, he STILL refused to listen.

It's disgusting, to think that any American would place this idiot in a light of protecting America. He's a failure, on EVERYTHING.



Really, don't waste your time posting to this bunch of zealots.

LWW
10-15-2007, 01:31 PM
Ahhhh...another neoleft antigay homophobe pops up! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

How about Bonnie Fwank and his homo-ho ring ran from his house.

The neoleft always overlooks that one.

As to the stall stalking senator...yes he's a POS.

If he were a D he'd be up for a chairmanship.

Question? Why do you think it is that the R's run off the crooks while the D's promote them.

LWW

DickLeonard
10-15-2007, 01:32 PM
SKennedy as a Former Republican she must have a bundle invested War Stocks.LOL####

wolfdancer
10-15-2007, 01:34 PM
Is that the sum total from the cartel here,of a rebuttal to what Gayle is quoting?
Wait, I forgot that you think global warming is just a big joke....

Gayle in MD
10-15-2007, 01:50 PM
lol, can they count? There was only one attack here during Clinton's administration, which was at the beginning of al Qaeda's birth as a terrorist organization, determined to launch a caliphate, and then no more until Bush came in. By their standards, Clinton did a better job of protecting America from attacks, for longer.

George Bush, the only President to vcompletely ignore warnings of a coming attack, and go fishing!
'
George Bush, who said he'd get bin Laden, and has let him go three times.

They frame this with Clinton, who was wise enough not to kill bin Laden, in a way that would create a regional response from a coalition of several Arab Nations, who's Prince's were in the area at the time.

They compare thoughtful patience and analysis, with going off half cocked, all hat and no cattle, cowboy style FUBAR!

These jerks are laughable!

/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

wolfdancer
10-15-2007, 02:08 PM
Is a windshield cowboy, anything like this?
web page (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6-JhdFp5e0)
a rhinestone cowboy is any man who wears the elaborate, stylized western wear made by rodeo tailors, especially as contrasted to a working cowboy or ranch hand.

Deeman3
10-15-2007, 02:18 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> Nah, it was the ghost of Ronald Reagan. The live RR scared the enemy so much, they willingly gave up the hostages on his inaugural day, they were in such fear. <font color="blue"> Not his ghost as he was very alive when they freed the hostages. I wonder why they did this as they were negoiating with Mr. Carter? </font color>
Or just maybe...and this is only a hypothetical....maybe, since 9/11...accomplished an unexpected windfall for them...another 4 years of the dumbest President to date, and one that was sure to do more damage to America's prestige then they could ever hope to accomplish....
maybe they just want him to stay there, pat himself on the back for getting Saddam, while now forgetting about Bin Laden.
Question: why do people want to pat GWB on the back, giving him credit for no more terrorist attacks.. <font color="blue"> Because there has not been another attack???? </font color> ..and overlook the fact that he ignored all warnings prior to 9/11? <hr /></blockquote> <font color="blue"> I'm not overlooking that or the other idiots that let this happen. I did think that it was a surprise to most despite a very few intellegence reports that look clearer in hindsight to everyone.

If your purpose is to blame Bush or mine is to blame Clinton, I think we do both a disservice. I would rather talk about what is the best thing to do now to make sure, as well as we can, that it does not happen again. I think the present measures have been adequate, shown by the lack of attacks that we must tighten the borders and do other things once we bail from Iraq and allow the terrorists to deploy in a wider circle. It we remain free of serious attacks for the rest of Bush's term he will, at least, have accomplished something here. If we are not attacked in the following 4 years, the next president will be applauded by me and, I hope, others. If he or she allows us to get attacked and blames it on Bush, well...I see that coming but the public really won't buy it, no matter how touchy feely it is labeled.

I guess my question is would you really like to have Jimmy Carter in charge of our security now? Even his own party said he was a "great ex-president" as he couldn't even get our people out of Iran. Even his own (Washington) people felt him losing was a good thing. Of course, Plains, GA suffered.</font color>

bamadog
10-15-2007, 02:39 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> lol, can they count? There was only one attack here during Clinton's administration, which was at the beginning of al Qaeda's birth as a terrorist organization, determined to launch a caliphate, and then no more until Bush came in. By their standards, Clinton did a better job of protecting America from attacks, for longer.

George Bush, the only President to vcompletely ignore warnings of a coming attack, and go fishing!
'
George Bush, who said he'd get bin Laden, and has let him go three times.

They frame this with Clinton, who was wise enough not to kill bin Laden, in a way that would create a regional response from a coalition of several Arab Nations, who's Prince's were in the area at the time.

They compare thoughtful patience and analysis, with going off half cocked, all hat and no cattle, cowboy style FUBAR!

These jerks are laughable!

/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Sorry Gayle, listen and learn. The two US embassies, bombed by Al Qaeda and the USS Cole bombed by Al Qaeda, ARE US SOIL!
What did Clinton do after these attacks? Wait, that's right, he was busy with Monica. Wasn't he?
So he did nothing!
Al Qaeda has said that since there was no response by Clinton, they felt they could carry out further attacks with impunity, as America was a cowardly and corrupt tiger.
Who gave them that impression?
Michael Scheurer, the CIA agent in charge of tracking Bin Laden, said that Clinton had the opportunity to take him out at least half a dozen times, but did nothing.
Do yourself a favor and read the Pulitzer prize winning book "the looming tower". It is all documented there.
Don't go through the rest of your life blinded by hatred and ignorance.

LAMas
10-15-2007, 02:41 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/11/AR2007101102134.html

U.K. Judge Rules Gore's Climate Film Has 9 Errors

By Mary Jordan
Washington Post Foreign Service
Friday, October 12, 2007; Page A12

LONDON, Oct. 11 -- A British judge has ruled that Al Gore's Oscar-winning film on global warming, "An Inconvenient Truth," contains "nine errors."

High Court Judge Michael Burton, deciding a lawsuit that questioned the film's suitability for showing in British classrooms, said Wednesday that the movie builds a "powerful" case that global warming is caused by humans and that urgent means are needed to counter it.

But he also said Gore makes nine statements in the film that are not supported by current mainstream scientific consensus. Teachers, Burton concluded, could show the film but must alert students to what the judge called errors.

The judge said that, for instance, Gore's script implies that Greenland or West Antarctica might melt in the near future, creating a sea level rise of up to 20 feet that would cause devastation from San Francisco to the Netherlands to Bangladesh. The judge called this "distinctly alarmist" and said the consensus view is that, if indeed Greenland melted, it would release this amount of water, "but only after, and over, millennia."

Burton also said Gore contends that inhabitants of low-lying Pacific atolls have had to evacuate to New Zealand because of global warming. "But there is no such evidence of any such evacuation," the judge said.

Another error, according to the judge, is that Gore says "a new scientific study shows that for the first time they are finding polar bears that have actually drowned swimming long distances up to 60 miles to find ice." Burton said that perhaps in the future polar bears will drown "by regression of pack-ice" but that the only study found on drowned polar bears attributed four deaths to a storm.

The ruling comes amid speculation that Gore will win the Nobel Peace Prize on Friday for his work on global warming.

Kalee Kreider, a spokesman for Gore, said the former vice president is "gratified that the courts verified that the central argument of 'An Inconvenient Truth' is supported by the scientific community." She said that "of the thousands and thousands of facts presented in the film, the judge apparently took issue with a handful."

Kreider also said that Gore believes the film will educate a generation of young people about the "climate crisis" and that the "debate has shifted from 'Is the problem real?' to 'What can be done about it?' "

Burton's ruling said that there is "now common ground that it is not simply a science film -- although it is clear that it is based substantially on scientific research and opinion -- but that it is a political film, albeit of course not party political." Burton said Gore's errors "arise in the context of alarmism and exaggeration in support of his political thesis."

Global warming has been a particularly big issue in Britain, where Prime Minister Gordon Brown said he wants to make his country a world leader in limiting carbon emissions.

Earlier this year, British education officials began distributing DVDs of Gore's film to state schools as part of a package designed to educate 3 million secondary school students on climate change.

The lawsuit was brought by Stewart Dimmock, a local school official who has two sons in state schools, in an attempt to block the education department's program. He claimed the film was inaccurate, politically biased and "sentimental mush" and therefore unsuitable for schools.

Dimmock, who belongs to the tiny New Party, told reporters he was "elated" at the ruling. He said guidance and context that teachers now must give along with the film means that students will not be "indoctrinated with this political spin." But he said he was disappointed the film wasn't banned outright from schools.

A spokesman for the Department of Children, Schools and Families said the agency was "delighted" that students could continue to see Gore's film. It has noted that the judge did not disagree with the film's main point -- that man-made emissions of greenhouse gases are causing serious climate consequences.

Bobbyrx
10-15-2007, 02:46 PM
Quote:
------------------------------------------------------------

"I wonder how that sticks in his craw...the guy he stole the election from, getting more worldwide acclaim then he gets? "

<font color="red">The only problem is every recount done of the Florida vote shows Bush winning, even the NT Times recount. web page (http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/12/politics/12VOTE.html?ex=1192593600&amp;en=e36530fcde419b34&amp;ei=5 070) </font color>

wolfdancer
10-15-2007, 02:55 PM
"The live RR scared the enemy" forgot to mention the arms we gave them that sweetened the deal.
You're right though....it's hard to blame just the top dog from either party for an attack...I still believe we are very vulnerable, and the next one could be a multi strike affair.
And while you keep bringing him up....I'll always admire Jimmy Carter, and I'd feel as safe if he were President now, as I do under this used car salesman that you guys champion.

SKennedy
10-15-2007, 03:20 PM
I'm a duck hunter. I spend a lot of time on the water. Gayle has a boat also. Granted mine is much smaller than hers. We're ready.....and speaking of global warming....we've already discussed that one to death and I did provide some info as to my qualifications or lack thereof. Regardless, our little diatribes here won't make any difference one way or the other. Although, typing does generate heat......and I would suggest we should stop imparting spin to the CB as it generates more friction and heat...come on wolfie do your part to cut down on global warming....center shots only from now on.... flat, quarter-size tips from now on...

Wally_in_Cincy
10-15-2007, 03:22 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Hey Q., check this out, I'm posting this as I thought you might be interested in it, not for the nutty right, they think the moon is made of green cheese, and people can live inside of whales, <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="red">2 Timothy 3:7

always learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
</font color>

/ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

bamadog
10-15-2007, 03:26 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> "The live RR scared the enemy" forgot to mention the arms we gave them that sweetened the deal.
You're right though....it's hard to blame just the top dog from either party for an attack...I still believe we are very vulnerable, and the next one could be a multi strike affair.
And while you keep bringing him up....I'll always admire Jimmy Carter, and I'd feel as safe if he were President now, as I do under this used car salesman that you guys champion.
<hr /></blockquote>
As usual, you make no sense.

wolfdancer
10-15-2007, 03:27 PM
you're admitting that Gayle's is bigger'n yours?

SKennedy
10-15-2007, 03:29 PM
Heck...it might be. Must be interesting to have all the parts!

I'm sorry Gayle...but I didn't start this one....

wolfdancer
10-15-2007, 03:37 PM
Dick, what a stupid, **** remark from Ed. I'm guessing in Republican circles, that passes for some kind of put down and is considered high humor?
Maybe he would care to explain it's meaning so we could all be in on the joke?
It's typical Ed though....responds to anything that challenges his support of Bush....with personal insults.

LWW
10-15-2007, 03:42 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote SKennedy:</font><hr> Global warming will go down as one of the biggest jokes ever. 50 years from now Gore will be one of the biggest jokes ever....(or the biggest hero if I'm wrong). <hr /></blockquote>
I say 2015.

By then we will be hearing how they never said AGW was real...the new story will be the Ice Age...which is now the story they are denying they pushed just as vehemently.

LWW
An Inconvenient Truth will be the Reefer Madness of 2050

I just wish I could be there to see it <hr /></blockquote>

LWW
10-15-2007, 03:45 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> lol, can they count? There was only one attack here during Clinton's administration, which was at the beginning of al Qaeda's birth as a terrorist organization, determined to launch a caliphate, and then no more until Bush came in.<hr /></blockquote>
Where do you come up with garbage?

There were 2 in one day!

Besides the others.

Wake up Gaylie and smell the coffee.

LWW

wolfdancer
10-15-2007, 04:13 PM
I think it would be a nice gesture to also award Al the honorary title of "Mr. President", since he did in fact win the election.
There is this great golf movie "A Gentleman's Game"...and the movie ends with the guy that "won" the U.S. Amateur, but cheated to win.....driving down years later to give his trophy to the rightful winner. Great story!!!
Now if only politics was a Gentleman's Game, and GWB was a gentleman and still had some honor left........you can't change history, but you can own up to your misdeeds....which in turn, led to 9/11 and the war (IMO)

LWW
10-15-2007, 04:53 PM
I honestly have a favor to ask.

Since you have the power to just babble something and have it become true, can you make me 21 and as rich as John Edwards so I can pay a 7% tax load on a $300K income and then criticize a guy who makes a third as much...but paying more in total dollars...for not doing my fair share?

Can I then drive of in my Caddy SUV after preaching to the citizen's to give their's up...just to show I'm a man of the people?

Or, can I have my son drive a Prius 100 MPH drunk with dope in the car after having a prior just to prove the type of planet caretaker I can be?

Or, live in my 20K square foot fuel guzzler and criticize Bush for having an off grid energy use home...so people will understand they need to conserve?

Oh, wait, I slipped back into reality for a bit...and I know that riles your gizzard.

LWW

eg8r
10-15-2007, 09:51 PM
Yes, I guessed you would. You would have had to take some time to actually read what was posted here.

eg8r

eg8r
10-15-2007, 09:53 PM
wolfie, you are the joke. How much more "in" do you need to be?

eg8r

wolfdancer
10-16-2007, 12:28 AM
Dick the game plan is simple...he has no game plan. since he can't attack the message, he tries to attack the messenger.
He'd be eaten up in any HS debate...
But I'd still like for him to be man enough to explain his remark....it sounded like something that would get you in trouble at the corner bar....

LWW
10-16-2007, 03:38 AM
I would?

Then you must not have, or be yourself, a single high school attendee on the left here.

LWW

Gayle in MD
10-16-2007, 04:50 AM
When you learn how to ask a question without insults, I'll answer them. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

LWW
10-16-2007, 04:51 AM
I've asked them with far more respect than you show to those you disagree with, so what's your excuse now?

LWW

Gayle in MD
10-16-2007, 05:14 AM
I find it amusing that these righties never bring up Reagans failure to respond to 264 American Marines being killed in their sleep during Reagans administration, and they misquote authors and their books to try to make points.

You'd thik they'd be out trying to raise money for their party, wouldn't you? After all, Democrats are raising money at almost four times the rats of Republicans.

They blame Clinton for not responding to the USS Cole, when intelligence did not have certain proof on the organization responsible until a few weeks before bush took office. Clinton warned him not to take his eye off al Qaeda, but alas, he went fishing, instead of doing anything at all when he became the first president to recieve advance warning of a coming attack, over three months in advance, actually.

Clinton built the anti terrorist network, and one unit completely focused on bin Laden, Bush dismantled it.

I am happy we will always be able to note that Clinton did not go off half cocked, and launch a regional disaster. He was more careful than to ignore input from experts in the field of foreign affairs, and hence, thousands fewer Americans have lost their lives, than in the Bush administration, and our allies were still on our side, unlike now, when we have lost so many of them due to George Bush's lies, and illegal occupation of Iraq.

al Qaeda was born during the Reagan administration, and the Reagan policies also launched the Talliban, and allowed Hammas to gain influence, and power, not only that, but Saddam would never have grown to power without the Reagan administration, which propped him up in the first place. al Qaeda was an inheritance from Republicans, along with Saddam, which Bill Clinton had to figure out how to handle. Thankfully, he didn't make decisions without educating himself on the likely results, as has George Bush.

Only those unaware of the growing disaster in the Middle East, resulting from George Bush's policies, could possibly compare Clinton to Bush, and think Bush could win such a ridiculous comparison. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

LWW
10-16-2007, 05:57 AM
I find it amusing that you hold Al up as a hero and when the lies are exposed you change the topic. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

LWW

hondo
10-16-2007, 06:55 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> When you learn how to ask a question without insults, I'll answer them. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

<hr /></blockquote>

I'm with you. Wally seems to have gotten a little meaner since his return. I don't remember him being this bad before.

Gayle in MD
10-16-2007, 07:30 AM
I suppose it may be connected to the worldwide opinion that Bush is the worst United States president in history? That invading Iraq, which Wally was all for doing, has turned out to be the worst foreign policy disaster in history? the his boy Bush has run up more debt than all previous presidents combined, (Wally thinks the economy is going great, people all over the country are losing their homes, we're coming up on ten trillion in debt, fighting this idiotic war in Iraq, is draining the US treasury, Middle Income wages have been completely flat, and in many areas, declining, we can't ever respond to an emergency appropriately, and good ol' Wally, thinks everything is great! /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

People are on here digging up right wing BS from the past, meanwhile, Bush has ruined our ability to secure secret agents around the world after outing a CIA agent for political purposes, and because, according to Tyler Drumheiller, as he stated in his book, "On The Brink" our country is no longer know as a country which acts from humanitarian principles, hence, operatives which would have been allies in infiltrating terrorist groups, no longer trust our government to protect them.

All previous presidents of the last thirty years, made mistakes, including Ronald Reagan, who completely ignored the terrorist attack which killed 246 American Marines, as they slept. It was that attack that was used by al Qaeda, as a prototype, when they bombed the Embassy in Africa, according to a number of books, including "Tripple Cross" but, alas, none of these right wing recent invaders desssisres to make any reference to that.

Bush Sr. is the man who failed to remove Saddam, when he had the chance, and bin Laden, was first heard about during Oliver North's testimony on trading weapons for hostages.

All in all, few could disagree, that failure to address the issue of fossil fuels, and reduce our consumption of foreign oil, has led to this point, and only Jimmy Carter worked, and succeeded, in reducing our use of foreign oil, during his administration.

Republicans, have throughout, pushed for what was best for the oil cartel, not what would have been best for America.

Wally, is just another right wing believer in free trade, and privitization, and doesn't seem to notice that no bid contracts have led to incredible waste in Iraq, further hatred of our troops due to the actions of corporations like Blackwater, money wasted re-building Iraq with piss poor construction, and most of it crumbling to the ground, and trailors rotting, with New Orleans still in shambles.

They were all for Bush, though, and would prefer going back to dig up right wing propaganda on Bill Clinton, than discuss how this president has let bin Laden go, and failed to get him, after looking the other way while bin Laden killed nearly three thousand Americans on 9/11, regardless of over three months warnings, which he completely ignored.

We had intelligence from 1994 about terrorists using planes as missiles to crash into skyscrapers.

"Up until 9/11, no one ever thought about people flying airplanes into buildings."

Condoleeza Rice

The omly successful, yet still iffy, success, with North Korea, was handled by a man from the Clinton Administration. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif Not her. she's been a complete failure in bringing about any resolutions in problem areas.

Bush only appoints nincompoops. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

No wonder people like Wally, are so angry. They will always have to acknowledge, they voted for the worst of the worst! /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif Too bad, so many other poor people have had to pay for their poor judgement, with their lives. /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

DickLeonard
10-16-2007, 08:14 AM
Wolfdancer the Rhinestone Cowboy was kicked out of bar outside of Troy on Snyders Lake. He was trying to steal Jimmy Walker from Buddy Randell and the Knickerbockers. The bar was packed every night and the owner was trying to protect his goldmine so he streeted Glen.

Jimmy went on to replace one of the Righteous Brothers.####

LWW
10-16-2007, 08:31 AM
So, you have no desire to actually discuss the pro and con of Gore's prize...after all that bluster.

Interesting?

I will agree that he is at least more worthy of the award than Yasser Arafat.

LWW

DickLeonard
10-16-2007, 08:42 AM
Bobbyrx the only way for a fair recount was to recount the whole state. Anything less invalidates everyones vote. That makes Al a winner or did I miss read that.####

DickLeonard
10-16-2007, 08:50 AM
Gayle did I hear that the FBI agent that was trying to get this administrations attention about the people taking flying lessons but didn't want to learn how to land them, had a nervous breakdown. He blamed 911 on himself.####

DickLeonard
10-16-2007, 08:55 AM
Hondo his has found God or a used Bible. I Wonder what God told GWB to veto Health care for Children. ####

DickLeonard
10-16-2007, 08:59 AM
Gayle LWW is trying to get his thousand post one line at a time. ####

Wally_in_Cincy
10-16-2007, 09:36 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote hondo:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> When you learn how to ask a question without insults, I'll answer them. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

<hr /></blockquote>

I'm with you. Wally seems to have gotten a little meaner since his return. I don't remember him being this bad before. <hr /></blockquote>

Hey hondo how ya been?

A couple of years ago I was jaded to Gayle's flamethrowing and I learned to slough it off. Coming back, my initial reaction to her posts was like salt in a wound. The callouses are growing back now and I am learning once again how to not let her under my skin.

She can criticize the President as much as she wants, after all that is an age-old American tradition, but I do wish she would quit blaming Christians for all the ills of the world.

and BTW I have asked her plenty of questions sans insults and I have not gotten any answer other than "Bush bad, Christians bad, blah blah blah..."

later dude

LWW
10-16-2007, 09:41 AM
So, what did she tell you that you think about that?

LWW

Wally_in_Cincy
10-16-2007, 09:43 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DickLeonard:</font><hr> Hondo his has found God or a used Bible. <hr /></blockquote>

Whatever that means

I am glad you took Gayle's advice and do not insult people for their views.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DickLeonard:</font><hr> I Wonder what God told GWB to veto Health care for Children. #### <hr /></blockquote>

I think the Bible says you should care for your own children, not expect the government to do it.

bamadog
10-16-2007, 10:00 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> I find it amusing that these righties never bring up Reagans failure to respond to 264 American Marines being killed in their sleep during Reagans administration, and they misquote authors and their books to try to make points.

You'd thik they'd be out trying to raise money for their party, wouldn't you? After all, Democrats are raising money at almost four times the rats of Republicans.

They blame Clinton for not responding to the USS Cole, when intelligence did not have certain proof on the organization responsible until a few weeks before bush took office. Clinton warned him not to take his eye off al Qaeda, but alas, he went fishing, instead of doing anything at all when he became the first president to recieve advance warning of a coming attack, over three months in advance, actually.

Clinton built the anti terrorist network, and one unit completely focused on bin Laden, Bush dismantled it.

I am happy we will always be able to note that Clinton did not go off half cocked, and launch a regional disaster. He was more careful than to ignore input from experts in the field of foreign affairs, and hence, thousands fewer Americans have lost their lives, than in the Bush administration, and our allies were still on our side, unlike now, when we have lost so many of them due to George Bush's lies, and illegal occupation of Iraq.

al Qaeda was born during the Reagan administration, and the Reagan policies also launched the Talliban, and allowed Hammas to gain influence, and power, not only that, but Saddam would never have grown to power without the Reagan administration, which propped him up in the first place. al Qaeda was an inheritance from Republicans, along with Saddam, which Bill Clinton had to figure out how to handle. Thankfully, he didn't make decisions without educating himself on the likely results, as has George Bush.

Only those unaware of the growing disaster in the Middle East, resulting from George Bush's policies, could possibly compare Clinton to Bush, and think Bush could win such a ridiculous comparison. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif



<hr /></blockquote>

Just as I thought Gayle, you could not back up your statements that the US instilled Saddam and the Taliban.
But you did repeat your fiction that the US President who sat on his hands for 8 years during 4 attacks on US soil by Al Qaeda and did NOTHING is a hero, while the US President who inherited this mess is an idiot for finally doing something about it.
Like most Libs, your outrage is selective, yours is just less informed than most.

wolfdancer
10-16-2007, 11:10 AM
If they would just admit that we aren't over there fighting to install a democracy, into a region where democracy will never work....but instead fighting for one purpose ...OIL.
Now oil is extremely important to our economy and worth killing for, but not worth dying for..and it ain't our oil in the first place.
Doesn't the fact that GWB once openly declared "Mission Accomplished"....tell anyone that he had no **** clue about the mess he was getting us into?
We engineered a war in Yugoslavia just for oil
".....After the destruction of Yugoslavia, the U.S. gained control over the Albanian-Macedonian-Bulgarian Oil pipeline (AMBO), which has become their gateway to the Caspian Sea. AMBO Pipeline Corporation, based in New York, has exclusive rights to the development of the project and is expected to begin construction in 2005 with completion in 2008.
These assets (oil and mineral resources) made Yugoslavia a golden fleece in the eyes of the West. When the U.S. "stick-and-carrot" approach to foreign policy failed to quell the "quiet revolution" so strongly desired and instead ended in civil war, the use of force became a necessity. The problem arose of how to do it within the bounds of international law. We needed a smoke screen. And the media was very effective in providing just that."
WMDs were the Iraq "smokescreen"....
Does your country have oil....well, we're coming over to get it....
Wait until they discover oil in Africa...we'll become very concerned then with all the killings, little dictators, etc.
We'll be rushing over there with our Diebold Machines to hold some free elections...after we kill off the opposition.
And here on the home front...in our little "Democracy" Bush has a trump card which effectively allows him to take control of the Government, all government, and suspend the Constitution:
On May 9th, President Bush issued a Presidential Directive (NSPD 51) that redoes the Continuity of Government in case of an emergency (as if the Constitution did not already address that).
NSPD 51 is very scary as written.
What are the odds that he will invoke it's power before the next election? Remote, I would hope....but we are dealing with GWB, and the hidden group that supports him

LWW
10-16-2007, 11:10 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DickLeonard:</font><hr> Bobbyrx the only way for a fair recount was to recount the whole state. Anything less invalidates everyones vote. That makes Al a winner or did I miss read that.#### <hr /></blockquote>
You must have.

Florida law REQUIRED a recount of the entire stae.

That recount was done.

Al still lost.

LWW

eg8r
10-16-2007, 11:11 AM
[ QUOTE ]
But I'd still like for him to be man enough to explain his remark....it sounded like something that would get you in trouble at the corner bar.... <hr /></blockquote> Oh just shut up, you keep talking about this beating in a bar, I am beginning to think you had your butt handed to you enough that you are an expert at it. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

If you go back to the post to Gayle I called her the queen of revisionist history, dick came back with his post and I told him he is not the queen (that is Gayle). Now, do you need this type of help feeding yourself? Surely you are competent at something because comprehension is not your bag. The queen reference was only a couple posts up the thread but you people are too stupid to actually look for it. I hope I did not hurt your tender feelings but I don't understand why manhood is called in to question when you are too freaking lazy to look yourself.

eg8r

LWW
10-16-2007, 11:15 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bamadog:</font><hr>Just as I thought Gayle, you could not back up your statements that the US instilled Saddam and the Taliban.
But you did repeat your fiction that the US President who sat on his hands for 8 years during 4 attacks on US soil by Al Qaeda and did NOTHING is a hero, while the US President who inherited this mess is an idiot for finally doing something about it.
Like most Libs, your outrage is selective, yours is just less informed than most. <hr /></blockquote>
Far less...and the killer is that we also inherited the whole Afghan mess because Carter and Brezhnev were meddling in it and making promises that future POTUS had to honor...or behave like a Carter/Clinton.

Today, we are having to deal with Jimmy's gift of the Islamic Republic of Iran and Billy Jeff subsidizing a failed communist state in North Korea which seems to have latched on to US missile tech from China via the Clinton/LORAL scandal.

And, FWIW, unlike the brilliant leftist minds here I can back up every bit of it.

LWW

wolfdancer
10-16-2007, 11:35 AM
See, now that didn't hurt did it? Now just couple that with an apology to Dick Leonard, and you'll feel good about it.
We knew whatcha meant all along....just trying to annoy you as you try to annoy everyone else here that doesn't think the sun rises and sets in your backside.
"Don't look back, they might be gaining on you" Satchel Paige
I think LCC may replace you as the #1 (...) on this board

wolfdancer
10-16-2007, 11:59 AM
Gayle, isn't it both nice and a testament to Al's Growing popularity, that so many took the time to read your post, and add positive comments to the thread?
To be sure there were the usual expected negative ones, from the group noted for their negativity. While they judge someone's merits, only on party affiliations, it's good that the Nobel Prize Committee does not.
They won't be able to recognize Al's genius until some right winger discovers Global warming, from the rising waters in his back yard....and first figures out how to make a buck off of the finding.
Well, even then, they'll want to claim they were the first to warn the world of it.
Thanks Al, for trying to make the world a better place

DickLeonard
10-16-2007, 12:00 PM
Wally I thought there was a line whatever you for the least of your brethen you do for me. Sorry I forgot it is better to be blowing people to smithereenes.####

wolfdancer
10-16-2007, 12:43 PM
"I think the Bible says you should care for your own children, not expect the government to do it."
Dick, isn't that a sad remark from Wallyworld?
We could leave the sick lying in the streets as they do in India...or establish "leper" colonies here, for those that can't afford health care..
it's in the Bible...King George (Bush) version
I'm thinking that $10 billion, just "missing" in Iraq, the money they wasted on the FEMA trailors, the Money they have now Wasted on the flawed flood pumps from Neil Bush's old company.....that could have provided a little health care instead. But that would disrupt the upward flow of money...while the trickle down theory states that eventually the poor will benefit...the opposite,upward gushing system, has no such time constraints....
"with charity in their hearts and malice towards none"

Bobbyrx
10-16-2007, 12:51 PM
I have never seen a recount yet that said Gore won in FL

LWW
10-16-2007, 12:56 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bobbyrx:</font><hr> I have never seen a recount yet that said Gore won in FL <hr /></blockquote>

OOH! OOH! OOH!

I bet I know why you haven't! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

LWW

Wally_in_Cincy
10-16-2007, 02:51 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DickLeonard:</font><hr> Wally I thought there was a line whatever you for the least of your brethen you do for me. Sorry I forgot it is better to be blowing people to smithereenes.#### <hr /></blockquote>

and that has absolutely nothing to do with my post

just because you and Gayle don't agree with the war you feel a need to insult Christians. What's the point?

Wally_in_Cincy
10-16-2007, 02:56 PM
[ QUOTE ]
"I think the Bible says you should care for your own children, not expect the government to do it." <hr /></blockquote>

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr>
Dick, isn't that a sad remark from Wallyworld?
<hr /></blockquote>

Sad as it may be, I stand by it.

LWW
10-16-2007, 03:09 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote DickLeonard:</font><hr> Wally I thought there was a line whatever you for the least of your brethen you do for me. Sorry I forgot it is better to be blowing people to smithereenes.#### <hr /></blockquote>

and that has absolutely nothing to do with my post

just because you and Gayle don't agree with the war you feel a need to insult Christians. What's the point? <hr /></blockquote>
The point is they hate anyone who disagrees.

LWW

wolfdancer
10-16-2007, 04:13 PM
I think this is too small a dais to share that kind of info with. If you have proof of these crimes of high treason, write your local newspaper, contact your local TV station...above all....get this info to the RNP...it could change the outcome of the next election.
It's off the topic a little, but your post did remind me of the great story I read today about the woman that is sending over "silly string" to our troops...it can be used to detect wires. that would trigger off a bomb
Well, if one housewife out there with silly string can save American lives....imagine what you can do with this silly s**t story of yours.

LWW
10-16-2007, 04:53 PM
So, you don't actually have anything to dispute what I've posted and linked?

LWW &lt;---Unsurprised.

wolfdancer
10-16-2007, 07:51 PM
I ain't seen nothing to dispute yet, except some unvalidated claim....and if you can validate that...you're wasting your time here... you owe it to your party to get this proof out to the general public, before the Clinton's take back the White House....Lord knows who they'll sell out to this time.
You could tell me the moon is made of green cheese...and I'd have to take your word for it.....so how can I dispute your claim? I don't have to give it any credence though....

LWW
10-17-2007, 04:05 AM
What "accusation" would you like documented?

Please, be specific.

LWW

heater451
10-17-2007, 09:37 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Bush only gives medals to incompetent people who agree not to blow his coverups. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif <hr /></blockquote> . . .while Clinton had incompetent people to coverup his blows. *rimshot*

Sorry, Gayle, I couldn't resist. . . .



=======================

wolfdancer
10-17-2007, 11:57 AM
I thought I showed admirable restraint by not posting a similar line...you however, have given in to your dark side...
I also avoided adding commentary out of respect for the Republicans, who considered that the crime of the century.

LWW
10-17-2007, 12:20 PM
So, you accept that it was documented...you just wanted to say it wasn't and hope nobody noticed?

LWW

cushioncrawler
10-17-2007, 05:36 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr>...I think the Bible says you should care for your own children, not expect the government to do it....<hr /></blockquote>Wally -- Here iz what the bible sez about children (from the skeptic bible)..... madMac.
".................What the Bible says about Children
Children who refuse to obey their parents must be executed.

If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear. -- Deuteronomy 21:18-21

He that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death. -- Exodus 21:15

He that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death. -- Exodus 21:17

Children who mock their parents will have their eyes plucked out by ravens and eaten by eagles.
The eye that mocketh at his father, and despiseth to obey his mother, the ravens of the valley shall pick it out, and the young eagles shall eat it. -- Proverbs 30:17

Like Abraham, parents should be willing to kill their children for God.
And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and ... offer him there for a burnt offering.... And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son. -- Genesis 22:2,10

God killed all the firstborn children in an entire country.
The LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon.... And there was a great cry in Egypt; for there was not a house where there was not one dead. -- Exodus 12:29-30

Sometimes God kills children for misbehaving.
And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them. -- 2 Kings 2:23-24

Someday God will force parents eat their own children.
And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat. -- Leviticus 26:16

And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat. -- Leviticus 26:29

And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters. -- Deuteronomy 28:53
And I will cause them to eat the flesh of their sons and the flesh of their daughters, and they shall eat every one the flesh of his friend. -- Jeremiah 19:9

And then there's this statement, which could only be found in the Bible:
Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones. -- Psalm 137:9 ...."

wolfdancer
10-17-2007, 06:27 PM
"Like Abraham, parents should be willing to kill their children for God."
Mac, is there anything in there about taking your brother out? Lord knows I'm willing, but want to be sure I'm doing God's work
"And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat"
I've heard it said that there is one group already doing that
Did it mention anything about enjoying a little Chianti and favre beans with the meal?
AND did it say anything about children/health care/ and government?
That must be in Deuteronomy, which is about laws ...and I skipped school the day they taught that
It can't be in Revelations because that is all about communicating.. (Prophets who relay his message to the people." Like "go to war in the middle-east" )

pooltchr
10-17-2007, 06:52 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> I thought I showed admirable restraint by not posting a similar line...you however, have given in to your dark side...
I also avoided adding commentary out of respect for the Republicans, who considered that the crime of the century.
<hr /></blockquote>
This is the point you see to be confused about. That wasn't the crime of the century...it's not even a crime. Lying under oath...that's a different story.
Steve

wolfdancer
10-17-2007, 07:27 PM
I know that...but it's a question that shouldn't have been asked, ...it ain't congress's business to know who's "schlepping" who.
Good thing the moral police weren't around when JFK was Prez....or he'd Still be locked up in the tower, serving his sentence.

LAMas
10-17-2007, 07:57 PM
When JFK was Pres, he was shot - by who - a Dem?

wolfdancer
10-17-2007, 08:34 PM
I always figured Joe DiMaggio for it. He had the eye, and the reflexes, and the Motive...

cushioncrawler
10-17-2007, 08:37 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> ...Mac, is there anything in there about taking your brother out? Lord knows I'm willing, but want to be sure I'm doing God's work
"And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat"
I've heard it said that there is one group already doing that<hr /></blockquote>Woofly -- nothing mentioned about brothers nor sisters. But there iz a bit (skeptic's annotated bible) about cannibalizm. madMac.....
...........What the Bible says about Cannibalism....

Sometimes God forces people to eat other people, often their own children or other family members.
"I also will do this unto you... You shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it." -- Leviticus 26:16

"And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat." -- Leviticus 26:29

"And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters." -- Deuteronomy 28:53

"And toward her young one that cometh out from between her feet, and toward her children which she shall bear: for she shall eat them." -- Deuteronomy 28:57

"Through the wrath of the LORD of hosts is the land darkened, and the people shall be as the fuel of the fire: no man shall spare his brother. And he shall snatch on the right hand, and be hungry; and he shall eat on the left hand, and they shall not be satisfied: they shall eat every man the flesh of his own arm." -- Isaiah 9:19-20

"And I will feed them that oppress thee with their own flesh; and they shall be drunken with their own blood, as with sweet wine." -- Isaiah 49:26

"And I will cause them to eat the flesh of their sons and the flesh of their daughters, and they shall eat every one the flesh of his friend." -- Jeremiah 19:9

"Therefore the fathers shall eat the sons in the midst of thee, and the sons shall eat their fathers." -- Ezekiel 5:10

"I will not feed you: that that dieth, let it die; and that that is to be cut off, let it be cut off; and let the rest eat every one the flesh of another." -- Zechariah 11:9

Sometimes the Bible just reports, often with apparent relish, cases of cannibalism.
"This woman said unto me, Give thy son, that we may eat him to day, and we will eat my son to morrow. So we boiled my son, and did eat him: and I said unto her on the next day, Give thy son, that we may eat him." 2 Kings 6:28-29

"The hands of the pitiful women have sodden their own children: they were their meat." -- Lamentations 4:10

"Who pluck off their skin from off them, and their flesh from off their bones; Who also eat the flesh of my people, and flay their skin from off them; and they break their bones, and chop them in pieces, as for the pot, and as flesh within the caldron." -- Micah 3:2-3

"Heap on wood, kindle the fire, consume the flesh, and spice it well, and let the bones be burned. Then set it empty upon the coals thereof, that the brass of it may be hot, and may burn, and that the filthiness of it may be molten in it, that the scum of it may be consumed. She hath wearied herself with lies, and her great scum went not forth out of her: her scum shall be in the fire. -- Ezekiel 24:10-12

wolfdancer
10-17-2007, 10:45 PM
You sure this is from the Bible and not something from a Stephen King novel????
I'm guessing that's why in Catholic School, we never studied the Old Testament, just the New....they didn't want to give us any ideas....

nAz
10-17-2007, 10:55 PM
Jack I'm sure Jesus liked it better before the bible was translated and everyone was illiterate. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Now stop hijacking Gayle's thread.

SKennedy
10-18-2007, 02:39 PM
Being able to read and actual "understanding" are 2 separate things.

eg8r
10-18-2007, 02:43 PM
Wow, you found the old testament and never looked forward. Now we know that honesty is not what you are after only shock.

eg8r

eg8r
10-18-2007, 02:45 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Mac, is there anything in there about taking your brother out? <hr /></blockquote> This is covered quite early in the Bible, you should go in and read about the very first family?

eg8r

eg8r
10-18-2007, 02:52 PM
You are obviously intent in only shocking those on the board who will for the most part not seek out those passages to see what is being taught. Once again you have gone to the old testament to look for something shocking instead of looking for scripture based on the covenant of the new testament.

All that is important to glean for your postings is that you intend to be dishonest with those who are not going to validate what you post and just accept it as truth.

eg8r

cushioncrawler
10-18-2007, 05:40 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> Wow, you found the old testament and never looked forward. Now we know that honesty is not what you are after only shock. eg8r<hr /></blockquote>Ed -- If there were anything in the new testament about "brothers &amp; sisters" or "cannibalism" the skeptics annotated bible would have (shood have) mentioned it. I havnt really checked to see if the quotations are correct. I agree that correct context can be (iz) an issue. madMac.

wolfdancer
10-18-2007, 05:48 PM
Mac, off the topic....but someone just sent me an email, that explains away yer spellin.....
The European Commission has just announced an agreement whereby
&gt; English will be the official language of the European Union rather than
&gt; German, which was the other possibility.
&gt;
&gt; As part of the negotiations, the British Government conceded that
&gt; English spelling had some room for improvement and has accepted a 5-
&gt; year phase-in plan that would become known as 'Euro-English'.
&gt;
&gt; In the first year, 's' will replace the soft 'c'. Sertainly, this will
&gt; make the sivil servants jump with joy. The hard 'c' will be dropped in
&gt; favour of 'k'.. This should klear up konfusion, and keyboards kan have
&gt; one less letter. There will be growing publik enthusiasm in the sekond
&gt; year when the troublesome 'ph' will be replaced with 'f'. This will
&gt; make words like fotograf 20% shorter.
&gt;
&gt; In the 3rd year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be expekted
&gt; to reach the stage where more komplikated changes are possible.
&gt;
&gt; Governments will enkourage the removal of double letters which have
&gt; always ben a deterent to akurate speling.
&gt;
&gt; Also, al wil agre that the horibl mes of the silent 'e' in the languag
&gt; is disgrasful and it should go away.
&gt;
&gt; By the 4th yer people wil be reseptiv to steps such as replasing 'th'
&gt; with 'z' and 'w' with 'v'.
&gt;
&gt; During ze fifz yer, ze unesesary 'o' kan be dropd from vords
&gt; kontaining 'ou' and after ziz fifz yer, ve vil hav a reil sensibl riten
&gt; styl.
&gt;
&gt; Zer vil be no mor trubl or difikultis and evrivun vil find it ezi tu
&gt; understand ech oza. Ze drem of a united urop vil finali kum tru.
&gt;
&gt; Und efter ze fifz yer, ve vil al be speking German like zey vunted in
&gt; ze forst plas.

You guys aren't really going to argue the merits of the Old Testament here, or are you?
It doesn't hold up well to a literal translation....or else I'd be doing God's work down in Fla, smiting the non-penitents.
Politics is one thing to discuss, but religion....that leads to war...jd

cushioncrawler
10-18-2007, 06:04 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SKennedy:</font><hr>Being able to read and actual "understanding" are 2 separate things.<hr /></blockquote>Steve -- I doubt that anyone out there haz (haz ever) understood the bible, not even the frauds (priests) who wrote it. Me, myself, i must admit that i am a bit like jezus christ (not that jc ever existed) koz i have never read the bible. -- started to a few times. I prefer to read experts who have read it. madMac.

cushioncrawler
10-18-2007, 06:33 PM
Woolfy -- The Society for Simplified Spelling iz the SSS, beleev it or not. madMac.

Qtec
10-19-2007, 05:17 AM
[ QUOTE ]


Sorry Gayle, listen and learn. The two US embassies, bombed by Al Qaeda and the USS Cole bombed by Al Qaeda, ARE US SOIL!
What did Clinton do after these attacks? Wait, that's right, he was busy with Monica. Wasn't he?
So he did nothing!
Al Qaeda has said that since there was no response by Clinton, they felt they could carry out further attacks with impunity, as America was a cowardly and corrupt tiger.
<hr /></blockquote>

[ QUOTE ]
In August 1998, President Clinton ordered missile strikes against targets in Afghanistan in an effort to hit Osama bin Laden, who had been linked to the embassy bombings in Africa (and was later connected to the attack on the USS Cole). The missiles reportedly missed bin Laden by a few hours, and Clinton was widely criticized by many who claimed he had ordered the strikes primarily to draw attention away from the Monica Lewinsky scandal. As John F. Harris wrote in The Washington Post:

In August 1998, when [Clinton] ordered missile strikes in an effort to kill Osama bin Laden, there was widespread speculation — from such people as Sen. Arlen Specter (R-Pa.) — that he was acting precipitously to draw attention away from the Monica S. Lewinsky scandal, then at full boil. Some said he was mistaken for personalizing the terrorism struggle so much around bin Laden. And when he ordered the closing of Pennsylvania Avenue in front of the White House after domestic terrorism in Oklahoma City, some Republicans accused him of hysteria.

. . . the federal budget on anti-terror activities tripled during Clinton's watch, to about $6.7 billion. After the effort to kill bin Laden with missiles in August 1998 failed — he had apparently left a training camp in Afghanistan a few hours earlier — recent news reports have detailed numerous other instances, as late as December 2000, when Clinton was on the verge of unleashing the military again. In each case, the White House chose not to act because of uncertainty that intelligence was good enough to find bin Laden, and concern that a failed attack would only enhance his stature in the Arab world.

. . . people maintain Clinton should have adapted Bush's policy promising that regimes that harbor terrorism will be treated as severely as terrorists themselves, and threatening to evict the Taliban from power in Afghanistan unless leaders meet his demands to produce bin Laden and associates. But Clinton aides said such a policy — potentially involving a full-scale war in central Asia — was not plausible before politics the world over became transformed by one of history's most lethal acts of terrorism.

Clinton's former national security adviser, Samuel R. Berger . . . said there [was] little prospect . . . that Pakistan would have helped the United States wage war against bin Laden or the Taliban in 1998, even after such outrages as the bombing of U.S. embassies overseas.
<hr /></blockquote>

YOU are the one who should check his facts because most of your claims are complete rubbish.
Clinton has explained several times that they had no real evidence against OBL.[ so even if he was offered, they had no legal right to hold him.]

Where is the US Paris embassy? In France?

Q web page (http://www.snopes.com/rumors/clinton.htm)

eg8r
10-19-2007, 06:16 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Ed -- If there were anything in the new testament about "brothers &amp; sisters" or "cannibalism" the skeptics annotated bible would have (shood have) mentioned it. <hr /></blockquote> I guess you aren't dishonest, you problem is comprehension. Why don't you seek out your local pastor and see if he can explain things to you.

eg8r

eg8r
10-19-2007, 06:18 AM
[ QUOTE ]
You guys aren't really going to argue the merits of the Old Testament here, or are you?
<hr /></blockquote> No one was arguing the merits of the old testament.

eg8r

Wally_in_Cincy
10-19-2007, 06:21 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cushioncrawler:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr>...I think the Bible says you should care for your own children, not expect the government to do it....<hr /></blockquote>Wally -- Here iz what the bible sez about children (from the skeptic bible)..... madMac.
".................What the Bible says about Children
Children who refuse to obey their parents must be executed.

<hr /></blockquote>

Very cute.

OK leave the Bible out of it completely. On a strictly secular moral basis, do you think parents should be responsible for the care of their own children, or do you think they should expect the government (read: other taxpayers) to take care of a major issue like providing health insurance for them?

If you say yes then we will have to agree to disagree.

LWW
10-19-2007, 07:24 AM
So, why did he choose the day of the impeachment vote for the attack?

As far as no evidence, we have the confessions on audiotape and videotape.

UBL and Saddam were allowed to live because Clinton wanted a convenient bogey man whenever the newest scandal arose.

Clinton lied and Americans died.

LWW

SKennedy
10-19-2007, 10:03 AM
You are right about the fact that "experts" can't agree on what the Bible does or does not say.
You and I will just have to disagree about it's validity and the existence of Christ. And that's OK as well...we all have our own choices and decisions to make.

Qtec
10-19-2007, 10:18 AM
Once again you make ridiculous assertions without links or presenting any proof.
You complain about C not doing anything and when he DOES do something its because he has an ulterior motive?!!!!

Fact check- 9/11 happened on GW's watch. Suck it up.

Q

LWW
10-19-2007, 11:22 AM
Nice strawman...where did I say that?

OOPS! I forgot, I didn't...you made it up again!

Oh silly me.

LWW

Gayle in MD
10-19-2007, 11:51 AM
Yes, and they reassigned him, to get rid of him in Washington. he ended up as chief of Security at the World Trade Center, which he knew would be attacked, by planes, flying into buildings, just what Condi lied about when she stated that no one had ever dreamed such a thing would be done. Evidence of al Qaeda and others plannign to use planes as missiles has been around since the eighties!

O' Neil, btw, was killed on 9/11, trying to rescue people from the attack. The Republicans bashed Clinton, throughout his efforts to destroy bin Laden, and fight terrorism. They distracted the country with their forte' occupying other peiople's personal lives, including their sex lives, and their childbearing decisions.

Richard Clarke stated in his book, Against All Emenies that Clinton was completely devoted to getting bin Laden, in a way which would not embolden the terrorist cause, or ruin our relationships with other Middle East countries. Now look where we are! They all hate us. Terrorist numbers have grown by leaps and bounds, attacks all over the globe greatly increased. George bush is responsible for all of it! His policies have put us at greater risk. Our own National Security Estimate, says so. The right, remains in complete denial, but clos to eighty percent of Americans, now see through Bush et al. Republicans can't come close to raising the money that Democrats are raising.

Clark's summary of how we ended up being attacked on 9/11, including four presidents.

---------------------------------------------------------

This is the story, from my perspective, of how al Qaeda developed and attacked the United States on September 11. It is a story of the CIA and FBI, who came late to realize that there was a threat to the United States and who were unable to stop it even after they agreed that the threat was real and significant. It is also the story of four presidents:

Ronald Reagan, who did not retaliate for the murder of 278 United States Marines in Beruit and who violated his own terrorism policy by trading arms for hostages in what came to be called the Iran-Contra scandal;

George H.W. Bush, who did not retaliate for the Libyan murder of 259 passengers on Pan Am 102, who did not have an official counterterrorism policy, and who left Saddam Hussein in place, requiring the United States to leave a large military presence in Saudi Arabia;

Bill Clinton, who identified terrorism as the major post-Cold War threat and acted to improve our counterterrorism capabilities; who (little known to the public) quelled anti American terrorism by Iraq and Iran, and defeated an al Qaeda attempt to dominate Bosnia, but who, weakened by continued political attack, couldn not get the CIA, and the Pentagon, and the FBI to act sufficiently to deal with the threat;

George W. Bush, who failed to act prior to September 11 on the threat from al Qaeda despite repeated warnings and then harvested a political windfall for taking obvious yet insufficient steps after the attacks; and who launched an unnecessary and costly war in Iraq that strengthened the fundamentalist, radical Islamis terrorist movement worlldwide.

----------------------------------------------------------


Dick, this is from THE Terrorist Czar. He is, and was, completely non partisan. If there is any one man, qualified to address how al Qaeda became what they became, and how 9/11 came about, it is him.

Any right wing Republican nut, who endeavors to place the blame on the only president of the last four administrations to actually fight terrorism, and to actually have kept America safe, is not to be taken seriously.

As you can see, by Mr. Clark's summary, REPUBLICANS are responsible for al Qaeda's birth, AND growth, over these last decades.

The rest of his book, is a commentary to that fact.

Of all of them, REagan, Bush and Bush, have weakened our country, and set us up for this mess. Hence, George W. Bush's first efforts were to deep six all the evidence from Reagan, Bush Sr., and his own, administration.


Bill Clinton, is loved all over the globe. Having Hillary in the White House, with Bill as a roving ambassador, is the best thing that could happen to this country. Let the little people dig around for right wing propaganda, there's plenty of it out there, but the facts, are what they are, and no amount of insults directed at those of us who are clear on the facts, will ever change that.

Love,
Gayle

wolfdancer
10-19-2007, 12:26 PM
Gayle, I'd like to read that book....I have a ton of troubling
links that I'll email to you...they would only stir up the hornet's nest here....

Gayle in MD
10-19-2007, 12:42 PM
Yes Wolf, I guess we're a bit confused about the crime of lying under oath, since George Bush freed Scooter from serving his jail time for Lying under oath about outing a covert American CIA NOC Agent, working on WMD's, as a pay back for her husband exposing Bush's lies that led us into Iraq, for ulterrior motives.

Theright is only concerned about other people's sex lives, and President who creates false intelligence, and lies to the whole country, and the rest fo the world, ultimately endangering our country, and emboldening our enemies, well, that's off their radar.

Republicans are the last people in this world who shold be yapping about lies, or spending, or protecting America!

Gayle in Md.

LWW
10-19-2007, 12:59 PM
So, IOW, you realize they won't hold up to scrutiny yet you mention them in public as if you are in possession of something ubercool!

LWW

LWW
10-19-2007, 01:02 PM
Sorry, but that won't fly,

1-The US Senate has declared Joe Wilson a liar.
2-The prosecutor found no such crime.
3-The prosecutor knew that no crime existed for months yet continued.
4-Plame's lawsuit was booted by the courts.
5-Plame was nnot covert.
6-Numerous credible people are on record that her job was commonly known and bragged about by her husband.

Let's try to stick to what is known and not what is imagined.

LWW

Gayle in MD
10-19-2007, 01:07 PM
That's OK. Jokes are fine. Frankly though, I'd have much preferred that bush had lied about blow jobs, than lied us into an avoidable war. the damage to our country has been immeasuravle, not to mention all those who have died, in Iraq, Americans, and Iraqis.

what could be more repulsive than a President suing war to his political advantage, at a time when Americans were in a state of shock, he took advantage of all of us, and who has gained from it? Only the cronies of bush and cheney, American Corproate fascist Pigs, and Bush and Dick Cheney's obsession with executive Power mongering.

We the people have lost our rights, and respect all over the globe.

Now, the idiot is out there yapping about WWIII.

Nothing Bill Clinton ever did comes close to these criminals, and the damage they've done to this country. I'd love to go back to the days of comparative peace, a surplus, no huge debt, and enjoying the respect of the world.

Oh, for the Clinton days. bush has given Iran, and Russia, everything they needed to come after us. I guess he must have seen the same thing in Puttin's eyes, that he saw in Rove's eyes, evil, but to Bush, that's a plus, since he sees the same thing in the mirror everyday.

Gayle in Md.

wolfdancer
10-19-2007, 01:42 PM
No, they are really too incriminating and controversial to put out here for any debate. I'm choosing just to send them privately to Gayle, and to be honest, it was a mistake to make that public. I just googled the usual hot topics, and found things I had never read before.
I'd also like to know the truth, either way, but doubt seriously if anyone here has any real proof...
And there's enough "bad blood" already here.
Lord knows, I've done my share , of abusing my posting privileges here....but I get caught up in the controversy, have an Irish temper,and forget things aren't just black &amp; white...but shades of gray.
My new resolution is to admit that you and bamadog have indeed conquered over here...stop my share of the cutesy name-calling ....and only respond to either of your posts, by objecting to the content, if I have a different opinion, and not to the content provider.
While it's been great fun to exchange barbs with you both....my whole day is free, but other members here have limited time to wade through the swamp to see if anybody posted something of real interest.
These are just my self imposed restraints...and they'll probably end up like my new year's resolutions of years past.

wolfdancer
10-19-2007, 02:10 PM
May I ask you a civil question? Wal-Mart is the nation's largest employer, yet the avg wage would preclude that employee from being able to provide paid health care ins for their Family. The economy of this country depends upon many people working at low paid jobs....McDonald's,etc....
Is there a way for them to provide their own medical care, without a wage package that would drive the price of a Big Mac up to $10, or double the food prices at the big chain stores?
I don't have any answers, and would be interested in how you would address the issue? euthanasia?

Gayle in MD
10-19-2007, 02:38 PM
Thanks for the links Friend. The Bullsh** on here is too deep for me. People denying that Valraie Plame was a covert agent, in spite of the fact that she testified under oath, with an accompanying letter from the Director of the CIA, stating that she was covert, classified, and protected at the time that the White House used their aides to out her. Scooter Libby, caught in lies, to cover up for the outing. Cheney's hand writing right on the Wilson artical, directing Libby on how to attack Joe Wilson. The President, admitted that a covert agent was outed, and the the law was broken, still, they lie.

It is people like these guys who are responsible for the fact that our troops are still being slaughtered in Iraq, and it will be their fault, as much as Bush, and the rest of the Republicans, when bin Laden, attacks this country again, for supporting huge distractions, during Clinton's administration, and by going into Iraq after 9/11, from doing those things which could have made us safer, and thwarted al Qaeda, instead of growing their numbers, and surpressed Iran, instead of making it stronger, and using all the good will we had from all over the world, after 9/11, to actually make progress in succeeding to bring the world closer to peace, instead of closer to total destruction.


Sheep are dumb, and they stink!

SKennedy
10-19-2007, 02:44 PM
Wolfie...you had me at euthanasia!

Wally_in_Cincy
10-19-2007, 03:04 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> May I ask you a civil question? Wal-Mart is the nation's largest employer, yet the avg wage would preclude that employee from being able to provide paid health care ins for their Family. <hr /></blockquote>

It is my understanding that most full-time Wal-Mart employees are able to purchase health insurance at a reasonable cost thru their employer. Don't know about part-time.

How about this: If you are working part-time at Wal-Mart and you are the breadwinner, either don't have kids or find a job that pays better. They are out there, despite the gloom and doom assertions of the Left.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> The economy of this country depends upon many people working at low paid jobs....McDonald's,etc....
<hr /></blockquote>

Those are called entry level jobs. Most of us have had them at one time or another in our youth.

How many grown adults (primary breadwinners) do you know who work for minimum wage at McDonalds?

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> I don't have any answers, and would be interested in how you would address the issue? euthanasia? <hr /></blockquote>

Well I guess someone like me who would actually defend Wal-Mart /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif would also be in favor of euthanasia.

and regarding the old folks, have they no bread? Let them eat dog food (cheaper than kitty food). Is that what you wanted to hear?

LWW
10-19-2007, 03:09 PM
So, you were sent to the store for food and came home with magic beans again! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

LWW

LWW
10-19-2007, 03:11 PM
Wally, how dare you imply that in this country we EVER expect people to be responsible for their actions! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

LWW

wolfdancer
10-19-2007, 03:14 PM
not sure I understand the metaphor...but if it made sense to you, score one for your side....have a good weekend

LAMas
10-19-2007, 05:55 PM
Does it have to do with maturity?

1999-English 1102


Jack's Quest for Maturity

By Jeff Cook


"Jack and the Beanstalk" is an example of a Buildungsroman. As the tale progresses, Jack evolves from an immature person into a mature, self-assertive person. While minor differences exist in various versions of the tale, such as those between Joseph Jacobs' and Horace Elisha Scudder's versions, the tale can always be read as Jack's quest for maturity. Some critics, however, analyze the tale as one in which Jack remains spoiled and immature. While they make points which support their claims, careful analysis of the tale will reveal that Jack's struggle to grow up and to achieve maturity is representative of the difficult process of adolescent (especially male) maturation and the process of adolescent socialization.

Some critics, as previously stated, maintain that Jack does not mature or learn any lesson during the tale. For example, Nell B. Byers writes that Jack is "a fellow who makes what would not be thought of as a prudent investment; who is not above trickery in outwitting the giant's wife; who steals the giant's treasures; and who, having killed the giant, lives with his mother happily ever afterward in affluence" (26). Byers' statement would lead one to believe that Jack does not change very much. Granted, a literal reading of most versions of the tale supports Byers' statements. Jack appears to be an immature, spoiled brat, or worse. Yet, a deeper reading is required to fully understand the tale's meaning.

Another critic, William Mayne, comments on Jack's lack of maturity and morality in Joseph Jacobs' version of "Jack and the Beanstalk." In this version, Mayne claims that Jack "went up to another land where he had no right to be, and set out to steal things from the giant, or ogre" (98). Again, a literal reading of the tale leads to questions about Jack's motives, morality, and maturity like the ones that Mayne raises. A closer reading, though, reveals why entering into the Giant's land and stealing the Giant's treasures is significant to the progress of Jack's maturity.

Jack does indeed begin as an immature, spoiled child. In Scudder's version, which is a moral version containing a fairy who justifies Jack's decision to steal the Giant's treasures, Jack's mother blames him for making her "a beggar" (23). In Jacobs' version, which is a traditional version without the fairy, Jack's inability to get a job shows his immaturity. As Martha Wolfenstein states, Jack "is spoiled or lazy or cannot hold a job or . . . has carelessly exhausted the family substance" (243). When the cow, Milky-white, stops giving milk, Jack's mother sends him to the marketplace to sell the cow for money (Jacobs 59). This venture is a very important first step in Jack's road to maturity, though it may not seem so at the time. This is the first time that we know of Jack's mother ever sending him to the market. According to Bruno Bettelheim, this first encounter with the world represents the end of infancy for Jack. As Bettelheim reminds us, Jack's mother demands that he "learn to make do with what the outside world can offer" (188). Now that Jack can no longer expect his mother to do everything for him, he realizes that he must take steps toward maturity. As Bettelheim says, "The child then has to begin the long and difficult process of turning himself into an adult" (188). By reading either Jacobs' or Scudder's version of the tale, one can tell that the process of adolescent maturation and socialization has begun.

On the way to the market, Jack meets an old man (Jacobs 60) or a butcher (Scudder 23), depending on the version, who trades Jack the magic beans for the cow. Of course, his mother views this trade as foolish (Wolfenstein 243). In Jacobs' version, she speaks harshly to Jack and beats him (61), while in Scudder's version she "burst into tears" (24). Both versions, however, show the mother's displeasure for Jack. If being sent to the marketplace breaks the close bond that Jack enjoyed with his mother in infancy, then his mother's displeasure with him places "mother and son in initial conflict with one another" (Utley 14). As Bettelheim states, Jack's trading the cow for the magic beans is his "first act of independence and initiative" (189). Jack's encounter with the old man, or butcher, is important to the process of adolescent maturation and socialization because selling the cow is an expression of the beginning of his personal initiative.

The mother's reactions to Jack's trade of the cow for the magic beans are puzzling. A literal reading of the tale may seem to justify the mother's reactions. She must sell the cow, or else, how will she obtain money for food? A deeper reading, however, suggests that her reactions are not fully justifiable. While Jack did not follow his mother's orders to trade the cow for money, she still should have recognized and approved of his display of initiative (Bettelheim 189).

Her failure to recognize and approve of his display of initiative can be viewed in different ways. First, Jack's mother does not trust his ability to make mature decisions and therefore has reservations about sending him out on his own. She tends to take a negative view of everything that he does. Evidence of her distrust can be found in Jacobs' and Scudder's versions of the tale. In Jacobs' version, Jack's mother rejects her son's request to go find work because nobody would hire him before (59). In Scudder's version, Jack desires to take the cow to the nearest village to sell, but his mother believes that he lacks the knowledge needed to make such a transaction. A second view is the argument that Jack's mother may not have wanted Jack to mature. Bettelheim offers this explanation: "If she had had her way, Jack would have remained an immature child, and neither he nor his mother would have escaped their misery" (192-3). Jack is sheltered according to this argument; in effect, his mother is deliberately inhibiting his ability to mature.

The final way to view the mother's failure to recognize and to approve of Jack's display of initiative might be the most disturbing. Jack's mother might not care if he matures. She does not warn Jack of the danger of talking to strangers, such as the butcher, before sending him to the market. As a result, Jack is vulnerable to making a mistake. Also, in Scudder's version, his mother fears that Jack is not knowledgeable enough to sell the cow, but she makes no effort to teach him what he needs to know. She puts Jack in a position to fail, not to succeed, in his quest for maturity and social growth. I think, however, that it may also be that Jack's mother does not trust his ability to mature. Whether Jack's mother does not trust Jack's ability to mature, if she just does not want him to mature, or if she does not care if he matures, is not significant, though. What is significant is that Jack must overcome his mother's low opinion of him in order to achieve maturity and to grow socially.

Jack responds to his mother's displeasure with his actions in two ways, both of which result in greater maturity. First, as Wolfenstein states, Jack desires to relieve "himself of the burden of guilt" (243) which he feels. Most versions of the tale, including Jacobs', mention that Jack feels sorry for causing his mother grief (61). He relieves this guilt, as Wolfenstein states, through "his heroic feats and the gifts which he brings the mother" (243). Instead of feeling sorry for himself, he determines to make the most of the situation (which is possible through the growth of the beanstalk). He also wants to prove his mother wrong by showing that he can, and did, use initiative and gain maturity. He feels that he must gain his mother's approval to have self-assurance of his own maturity. Removing his guilt and proving himself to his mother is important to his process of obtaining greater maturation and socialization.

The beanstalk is extremely important to Jack's achieving maturity and demonstrating his social growth. The beanstalk, in Wolfenstein's eyes, is "the means by which the boy attains his purpose" (243). Literally, he climbs up and down to take the giant's treasure. Figuratively, he "will climb into the sky to achieve a higher existence" (Bettelheim 190). He "uses the beanstalk to obtain presents for his mother . . . (Wolfenstein 244). In this way, as stated by Wolfenstein, Jack lessens the guilt which he feels by obtaining these gifts (243). Jack's actual climbing of the beanstalk is another display of initiative. As Bettelheim states: "he climbs the beanstalk on his own initiative, not because somebody else suggested it" (189). The initiative that Jack shows through the beanstalk helps him to gain greater maturity.

The beanstalk also deals with Jack's obtaining sexual maturity. "The fantastic growth of the humble but magic seeds during the night is . . . a symbol of the miraculous power and of the satisfactions Jack's sexual development can bring about . . ." (Bettelheim 190). However, as in other aspects of life, Jack's views of sexuality are initially immature. He believes that he can basically conquer anything, according to Bettelheim, because of "the hopes which his newly discovered masculinity evokes in him" (189). Jack cannot give up his need to believe in phallic self-assertion and its magic power until he chops down the beanstalk (Bettelheim 187), which I will explain when discussing Jack's chopping down of the beanstalk. The beanstalk is imperative to Jack's quest to obtain greater maturity and social growth.

The ogre's wife is also instrumental to Jack's gaining his maturity. According to Utley, the ogre's wife acts as a mother figure and "helps Jack win his vindication . . ." (14). The way that she does so is described by Bettelheim, who compares the safe places that she hides Jack to the safety of the mother's womb. "Such a short regression to a previous stage of development provides the security and strength needed for the next step in independence and self-assertion" (193). Because of this increase in independence and self-assertion, however, he is one step closer to convincing his mother that he is mature while obtaining even greater maturity and social growth. The ogre's wife also helps Jack overcome oedipal conflict with the ogre. According to Bettelheim, the giant's wife protects Jack as he undergoes "oedipal conflict with the ogre, which he survives and finally wins . . . (187). The oedipal conflict begins with Jack's disappointment in his mother because she has stopped meeting all of his needs (188). Therefore, he turns to the ogre's wife to try to replace what he has lost with his mother. The ogre's wife helps Jack, and she is friendly with him. When Jack feels that the ogre is threatening his relationship with the ogre's wife, he becomes jealous of the ogre. The ogre has become a father figure. This jealousy of the ogre represents oedipal conflict and leads Jack to steal the ogre's treasures (190). According to Bettelheim: "To master the difficulties of this period, the boy needs a mother's understanding help: only because the ogre's wife protects and hides Jack can he acquire the ogre-father's powers"(191). Jack overcomes the oedipal conflict and gains greater maturity because of the ogre wife's understanding help.

The ogre wife's protection allows Jack to gain the giant's powers (191), which are the three magic objects. Jack's acquirance of the three magic objects has great symbolic meaning. As Bettelheim states, the harp is the most important of the magic objects, for "Jack gains full humanity by striving for and gaining what the harp represents . . . ," which is "beauty, art, and the higher things in life" (191). The protection of the giant's wife, as well as the representation of the harp, is vital to Jack's progress toward maturity and social growth.

Jack's chopping down the beanstalk is the final step in his gaining maturity. He seems to cut ties with his past problems. The crash of the beanstalk and the death of the giant allows Jack to move forward in his life and in the maturation process. As Bettelheim states, "Jack . . . frees himself from the view of the father as a destructive and devouring ogre . . . " (192). Jack gives up his belief in the phallus " as the means for gaining him all the good things in life" (192). Chopping down the beanstalk allows him to free himself from unrealistic sexual fantasies and to move forward in the development of mature masculinity (187). He also gains the trust of his mother, who recognizes his maturity by immediately bringing the axe as Jack requested (Jacobs 67).

"Jack and the Beanstalk" is a story of movement from immaturity to maturity, especially pertaining to males. Jack gains maturity through several steps, including the conflict with his mother, the climbing and chopping down of the beanstalk, the aid of the ogre's wife, and the taking of the giant's treasure. Overcoming his mother's low opinion of him and gaining her approval is vital to Jack's obtaining maturity and social growth. He also undergoes sexual maturation, which can be a trying time in a male's development. The beanstalk and the ogre's wife are the major means by which Jack obtains mature masculinity and the approval of his mother. Once he comes to grips with his sexual maturity and proves himself to his mother, he can finally conclude the long and difficult process of social and adolescent maturation and become an adult.

cushioncrawler
10-19-2007, 06:08 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr>.... Very cute. OK leave the Bible out of it completely. On a strictly secular moral basis, do you think parents should be responsible for the care of their own children, or do you think they should expect the government (read: other taxpayers) to take care of a major issue like providing health insurance for them? If you say yes then we will have to agree to disagree.<hr /></blockquote>Wally -- I think that the USA system iz potentially a good one. I think that any system iz ok or potentially ok. In this age there shood be plenty for all. Most people shood be so wealthy that the few that need aid shood only be a minor drain on taxes.

The problem iz that the basic USA system iz not efficient. It iz based on conflikt and chaos and greed etc etc, and u end up with lots of unhealthy layering. Slavery haznt been abolished, it haz taken a different form.

How much $$$$ iz needed for health etc?? What % of the budget iz this $$$$??

I think that everybody shood be happy. Everybody (and children) shood have enuff money (opportunity for work, fair wage etc) to have no problems with anything (ie at least with basics).

Straight away we have a problem. Very few people (especially women) are happy. Like Abe said -- people are about az happy az they want to be. Our (your) society (capitalist big bizness) thrives on unhappyness. Big bizness spendz big bucks to make u feel u are not az happy az someone who allready haz whatever big bizness iz selling. Now, children are a big target, so, now, children are unhappy.

"... do you think parents should be responsible for the care of their own children"..?? My answer iz yes, but it all dependz on what u/i mean. For starters, nowadayz i am of the opinion that that question shood relate to "their own child". There are too many people. How can the USA system fix this?? Well, it karnt (or wont). So perhaps i have to go back on what i said about the USA being potentially ok. madMac.

LAMas
10-19-2007, 06:14 PM
Duplicate post deleted.

cushioncrawler
10-19-2007, 06:15 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SKennedy:</font><hr> You are right about the fact that "experts" can't agree on what the Bible does or does not say. You and I will just have to disagree about it's validity and the existence of Christ. And that's OK as well...we all have our own choices and decisions to make.<hr /></blockquote>Yes, but u will find that atheists dont brainwash their children, and atheists dont bully their community. madMac.

cushioncrawler
10-19-2007, 06:22 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr>Ed -- If there were anything in the new testament about "brothers &amp; sisters" or "cannibalism" the skeptics annotated bible would have (shood have) mentioned it.<hr /></blockquote>I guess you aren't dishonest, you problem is comprehension. Why don't you seek out your local pastor and see if he can explain things to you. eg8r<hr /></blockquote>Ed -- The first question might be how kum hiz church iz different to, or seperate to, or split from, or in oppozition to, or hates, other (christian) churches.

No, my first question would be... "What are the 10 commandments"???? madMac.

Sid_Vicious
10-19-2007, 06:34 PM
"No, my first question would be... "What are the 10 commandments"????"

BINGO! sid

wolfdancer
10-19-2007, 07:02 PM
I think it's great that you are reading the classics.
Actually I think it's great that you can read....
I'll check with the neighbors 4th grader to see how this fits in with the original mixed metaphor.
I think you wasted a lot of time typing that out.....but if it made you feel good, and maybe prevents some road rage.... priceless!!!

LAMas
10-19-2007, 07:24 PM
No time at all. Just Google and cut and paste. Sorry I don't have as much time as gayle to create verbose posts - I hope that she also cuts and pastes for I see her Liberal thoughts also on Google. We all can't be original.

wolfdancer
10-19-2007, 07:28 PM
Mac, I can't say I'm not a Christian, after being born into an Irish Catholic family, educated in Catholic schools.. I still bear the scars from Sister Mary Leo's (Leo-the Lion-Hearted) rod that she administered swift and painful punishment with.
And I served as an alter boy, with some thoughts of becoming a priest until puberty set in and I discovered Masturbation....of course I never did that myself because of the consequences for spilling your seed...but found out that others were doing it, and weren't being killed for it.This made me then question some of the teachings...
I have Joseph Campbell's "The Power of Myth" which has some good comparisons and insights about religion. Well worth the price if you have never seen them before...www.pbs.com/

wolfdancer
10-19-2007, 07:32 PM
well have a good weekend...recharge and prepare for next weeks war of the words here....

wolfdancer
10-19-2007, 07:38 PM
I think Greenpeace should also win a Nobel Prize. They have done some great things to promote awareness, often at great personal risk.
And they are the main reason why you don't see Cheney clubbing baby seals to death, and just shooting lawyers instead.

cushioncrawler
10-19-2007, 07:58 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> Mac, I can't say I'm not a Christian, after being born into an Irish Catholic family, educated in Catholic schools.. I still bear the scars from Sister Mary Leo's (Leo-the Lion-Hearted) rod that she administered swift and painful punishment with.
And I served as an alter boy, with some thoughts of becoming a priest until puberty set in and I discovered Masturbation....of course I never did that myself because of the consequences for spilling your seed...but found out that others were doing it, and weren't being killed for it.This made me then question some of the teachings...
I have Joseph Campbell's "The Power of Myth" which has some good comparisons and insights about religion. Well worth the price if you have never seen them before... www.pbs.com (http://www.pbs.com) <hr /></blockquote>Woolfy -- Thanks for that -- JC sounds interesting (but i reckon that Jung and Freud are full of it).

I didnt make altar boy. I probably failed the quizz in the confessional. madMac.

LAMas
10-19-2007, 08:16 PM
You also have a good weekend and don't forget to shave your palms.

Wally_in_Cincy
10-20-2007, 09:48 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cushioncrawler:</font><hr> Steve -- I doubt that anyone out there haz (haz ever) understood the bible, not even the frauds (priests) who wrote it. Me, myself, i must admit that i am a bit like jezus christ (not that jc ever existed) koz i have never read the bible. -- started to a few times. I prefer to read experts who have read it. madMac. <hr /></blockquote>

You should read it before you pass judgement. Try the New International Version. It's an easier read than the King Janes. Start with the New Testament. It is more applicable to what Christianity ia all about.

That stuff in the Old Testament is about ancient times when the world was a place barely recognizable from today.

P.S. Maybe it's just me but I would not categorize Jesus's disciples as "frauds"

and the "experts" you refer to quite obviously have an agenda, if they are the ones you are quoting

LAMas
10-20-2007, 08:16 PM
Junk Science: Hey Al Gore, We Want a Refund!
Friday, October 19, 2007

By Steven Milloy


A British judge ruled on the eve of Al Gore co-winning the Nobel Peace Prize that students forced to watch "An Inconvenient Truth" must be warned of the film’s factual errors. But would there be any science at all left in Gore’s "truth" if these errors and their progeny were excised?

Minutes of non-science filler dominate the opening sequence — images of the Gore farm, Earth from space, Gore giving his slideshow and the 2000 election controversy. Gore then links Hurricane Katrina with global warming. But the judge ruled that was erroneous, so the Katrina scenes would wind up on the cutting-room floor.

Another 12 minutes of filler go by — images of Gore in his limo, more Earth photos, a Mark Twain quote, and Gore memories — until about the 16:30 minute mark, when, according to the judge, Al Gore erroneously links receding glaciers — specifically Mt. Kilimanjaro — with global warming.

The Mt. Kilimanjaro error commences an almost 10-minute stretch of problematic footage, the bulk of which contains Gore’s presentation of the crucial issue in the global warming controversy — whether increasing levels of atmospheric carbon dioxide drive global temperatures higher. As the judge ruled that the Antarctic ice core data presented in the film "do not establish what Mr. Gore asserts," this inconvenient untruth also needs to go. [Note to readers: A video debate between Al Gore and climatologists on this point produced by me can be viewed by clicking here.]

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Stories
Students Thrown Climate Life Preserver Full-page Junk Science Archive After still more filler footage about Winston Churchill, the 2000 election, and rising insurance claims from natural disasters, Gore spends about 35 seconds on how the drying of Lake Chad is due to global warming. The judge ruled that this claim wasn’t supported by the scientific evidence.

More filler leads to a 30-second clip about how global warming is causing polar bears to drown because they have to swim greater distances to find sea ice on which to rest. The judge ruled however, that the polar bears in question had actually drowned because of a particularly violent storm.

On the heels of that error, Gore launches into a 3-minute "explanation" of how global warming will shut down the Gulf Stream and send Europe into an ice age. The judge ruled that this was an impossibility.

Two minutes of ominous footage — casting Presidents Reagan and George H.W. Bush, and Sen. James Inhofe (R-OK) in a creepy light and expressing Gore’s frustration with getting his alarmist message out — precede a more-than-9-minute stretch that would need to be cut.

In this lengthy footage, Gore again tries to link global warming with discrete events including coral reef bleaching, the melting of Greenland, catastrophic sea level rise, Antarctic melting and more. But like Hurricane Katrina, these events also shouldn’t be linked with global warming.

Based on the judge’s ruling, the footage that ought to be excised adds up to about 25 minutes or so out of the 98-minute film. What’s left is largely Gore personal drama and cinematic fluff that has nothing to do with the science of climate change.

It should also be pointed out that Gore makes other notable factual misstatements in the film that don’t help his or his film’s credibility.

He says in the film that polio has been "cured," implying that we can cure "global warming." While a preventative polio vaccine does exist, there is no "cure" for polio.

Gore attempts to smear his critics by likening them to the tobacco industry. In spotlighting a magazine advertisement proclaiming that "more doctors smoke Camel than any other brand," he states that the ad was published after the Surgeon General’s 1964 report on smoking and lung cancer. But the ad is actually from 1947 — 17 years before the report.

Gore also says in the film that 2005 is the hottest year on record. But NASA data actually show that 1934 was the hottest year on record in the U.S. — 2005 is not even in the top 10.

Perhaps worse than the film’s errors is their origin. The BBC reported that Gore knew the film presented incorrect information but took no corrective steps because he didn’t want to spotlight any uncertainties in the scientific data that may fuel opponents of global warming alarmism.

"An Inconvenient Truth" grossed about $50 million at the box office and millions more in DVD and book sales. Gore charges as much as $175,000 for an in-person presentation of his slide show that forms the basis for the film.

Considering that a key 25 percent of "An Inconvenient Truth" is not true — and perhaps intentionally so — it seems only fair that Gore offer a refund to moviegoers, DVD/book purchasers and speaking sponsors. Where are the class action lawyers when you need them?

Steven Milloy publishes JunkScience.com and DemandDebate.com. He is a junk science expert and advocate of free enterprise and an adjunct scholar at the Competitive Enterprise Institute.

wolfdancer
10-20-2007, 08:30 PM
Ole Steve must be smarter then the whole **** prize committee, combined....
That's it then...case closed!!!
Them doctored photos, phony videos, bribing them Eskimos
an to think I fell for that

cushioncrawler
10-21-2007, 04:51 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote cushioncrawler:</font><hr> Steve -- I doubt that anyone out there haz (haz ever) understood the bible, not even the frauds (priests) who wrote it. Me, myself, i must admit that i am a bit like jezus christ (not that jc ever existed) koz i have never read the bible. -- started to a few times. I prefer to read experts who have read it. madMac.<hr /></blockquote>You should read it before you pass judgement. Try the New International Version. It's an easier read than the King Janes. Start with the New Testament. It is more applicable to what Christianity ia all about. That stuff in the Old Testament is about ancient times when the world was a place barely recognizable from today. P.S. Maybe it's just me but I would not categorize Jesus's disciples as "frauds" and the "experts" you refer to quite obviously have an agenda, if they are the ones you are quoting.<hr /></blockquote>The latest bit of stuff that i read woz about the guys that wrote lots of the stuff in the new testament. Apparantly they were hoodlums standover sharks henchmen etc (ie tax collectors etc). Might find the link one day. madMac.

Wally_in_Cincy
10-21-2007, 07:37 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cushioncrawler:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote cushioncrawler:</font><hr> Steve -- I doubt that anyone out there haz (haz ever) understood the bible, not even the frauds (priests) who wrote it. Me, myself, i must admit that i am a bit like jezus christ (not that jc ever existed) koz i have never read the bible. -- started to a few times. I prefer to read experts who have read it. madMac.<hr /></blockquote>You should read it before you pass judgement. Try the New International Version. It's an easier read than the King Janes. Start with the New Testament. It is more applicable to what Christianity ia all about. That stuff in the Old Testament is about ancient times when the world was a place barely recognizable from today. P.S. Maybe it's just me but I would not categorize Jesus's disciples as "frauds" and the "experts" you refer to quite obviously have an agenda, if they are the ones you are quoting.<hr /></blockquote>The latest bit of stuff that i read woz about the guys that wrote lots of the stuff in the new testament. Apparantly they were hoodlums standover sharks henchmen etc (ie tax collectors etc). Might find the link one day. madMac. <hr /></blockquote>

That's pretty incoherent. Please refer to my previous post