PDA

View Full Version : Rule question: OB rides the rail??



NH_Steve
07-28-2002, 06:36 PM
What is the ruling if an object ball leaves the playing surface, climbs up onto the rail, rolls along up on the rail -- perhaps bumping a piece of chalk on it's way, and then returns to the table? How about if it then drops in the pocket?

I'll try to illustrate on WEI:
START(
%BG0D3%CG5E7%JG5G5%PC8L3%QA8[4%UB8I7%VF7C3%WO2C9%XH4E2%Y]8D3
%ZH6G2%[F1I6%\D7K6%]r2R8%^H2H2%eB5`7%f7%g5%_C0Z7%`B0Q0%aB2K0
%bd3[0%ch2X9%ds0S5
)END

shortcut to WEI:
http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable2.html

Chris Cass
07-28-2002, 06:43 PM
It's good if I shoot it. hahaha

C.C.

07-28-2002, 06:45 PM
I think that when it hits the chalk, it's a foul.

If the OB comes back to rest on the bed of the table or in a pocket with out any outside interference, then it is a legal shot.....randyg

NH_Steve
07-28-2002, 06:45 PM
Yeah, well, my opponent did!!

NH_Steve
07-28-2002, 06:48 PM
I didn't think that part of the rail was considered legal playing surface -- I thought it was an illegal shot (naturally, 'cuz it wasn't me that pulled it off /ccboard/images/icons/wink.gif )

Tom_In_Cincy
07-28-2002, 07:13 PM
IF it ends up anywhere besides the table surface (except a pocket) its a foul, under the current BCA rules.

Troy
07-28-2002, 08:01 PM
Reading 3.28, it's a FOUL if the ball hit the chalk --- but a great shot if the ball goes in the pocket NOT hitting anything but the rail-top.

"3.28 BALLS JUMPED OFF TABLE
Balls coming to rest other than on the bed of the table after a stroke (on the cushion top, rail surface, floor, etc.) are considered jumped balls. Balls may bounce on the cushion tops and rails of the table in play without being jumped balls if they return to the bed of the table under
their own power and without touching anything not a part of the table. The table shall consist of the permanent part of the table proper. (Balls that strike or touch anything not a part of the table, such as the light fixture, chalk on the rails and cushion tops, etc., shall be considered jumped balls even though they might return to the bed of the table after contacting items which are not parts of the table proper). In all pocket billiard games, when a stroke results in the cue ball or any object ball being a jumped ball off the table, the stroke is a foul. All jumped object balls are spotted (except in 8 and 9-Ball) when all balls have stopped moving. See specific game rules for putting the cue ball in play after a jumped cue ball foul."

Troy
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Tom_In_Cincy:</font><hr> IF it ends up anywhere besides the table surface (except a pocket) its a foul, under the current BCA rules. <hr></blockquote>

Chris Cass
07-28-2002, 09:05 PM
I'm sorry Steve, I didn't mean to make lite of it. I just found it funny. There are so many things that happen while playing. That really, makes you wonder. The wording, "Perhaps" hit the chalk is a good question. I would think the ball was good myself. Only because it landed back on the playing surface. Again I apologize. I hope it didn't cost you the set or game.

Regards,

C.C.

07-28-2002, 11:25 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Chris Cass:</font><hr> I'm sorry Steve, I didn't mean to make lite of it. I just found it funny. There are so many things that happen while playing. That really, makes you wonder. The wording, "Perhaps" hit the chalk is a good question. I would think the ball was good myself. Only because it landed back on the playing surface. Again I apologize. I hope it didn't cost you the set or game.

Regards,

C.C. <hr></blockquote>

of course, randy g has it right in my opinion (and according to the book); as long as it rides the rail it's same as if it were on the bed of the table but if, in fact, it touches anything not part of the table as manufactured, the chalk, light, your aunt francis' terrier, it's a foul.i watched a wpba match on tv once, years ago, where it clearly hit some chalk while riding the rail and nobody called it. funny.

dan

Rod
07-28-2002, 11:42 PM
Dan, I believe I saw the same match. amazing!

07-28-2002, 11:54 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Rod:</font><hr> Dan, I believe I saw the same match. amazing! <hr></blockquote>

yep. if you're watching that match it comes up bigger'n dallas. the camera get's on the ball as it's rolling along the rail then it hits the chalk then falls back on the table.

next shot!!

wrong!!

dan

Wally_in_Cincy
07-29-2002, 09:20 AM
The BCA instructor I took lessons from claims he showed Tommy Kennedy how to shoot that shot on purpose and make it. I don't think he was lying, heck I was the only one in the group who even knew who Tommy Kennedy was.

07-29-2002, 09:46 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Troy:</font><hr> (Balls that strike or touch anything not a part of the table, such as ... cushion tops, etc., shall be considered jumped balls even though they might return to the bed of the table after contacting items which are not parts of the table proper). "


Troy, I'm confused. This seems to say that if the cueball EVER hits the "cushion top" it is a foul, no?

- Steve Lipsky

07-29-2002, 09:51 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Troy:</font><hr> In all pocket billiard games, when a stroke results in the cue ball or any object ball being a jumped ball off the table, the stroke is a foul. <hr></blockquote>

Also, in the straight pool tournament we had at Carom Cafe a while back, Tommy Walters accidentally jumped an object ball off the table while playing me. It was late in the game, and I figured it to be a foul.

However, I was immediately told by both Tommy and Danny Barouty that in straight pool, it is NOT a foul.

Was I cheated? /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

- Steve

heater451
07-29-2002, 10:05 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Troy:</font><hr>(Balls that strike or touch anything not a part of the table, such as ... cushion tops, etc., shall be considered jumped balls even though they might return to the bed of the table after contacting items which are not parts of the table proper). "<hr></blockquote><blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Steve_Lipsky:</font><hr>
Troy, I'm confused. This seems to say that if the cueball EVER hits the "cushion top" it is a foul, no?<hr></blockquote>
Steve, it looks like you dropped some of what Troy posted. I've added bold to the text below, to what I think will help you find the answer:
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Troy:</font><hr>Balls coming to rest other than on the bed of the table after a stroke (on the cushion top, rail surface, floor, etc.) are considered jumped balls. Balls may bounce on the cushion tops and rails of the table in play without being jumped balls if they return to the bed of the table under their own power and without touching anything not a part of the table. <hr></blockquote>



=============

07-29-2002, 10:07 AM
Hi Heater. Actually, I saw that, but for simplicity, I didn't include it. It does seem that the entire paragraph contradicts itself, doesn't it? Or am I reading this wrong?

Thanks,
Steve

07-29-2002, 10:09 AM
Yep, I am reading this wrong. I re-read it, and I think that when the paragraph reads, "chalk on the rails and cushion tops" it actually means "chalk on the rails or chalk on the cushion tops".

Sorry for the confusion.

- Steve

Troy
07-29-2002, 10:15 AM
Quote Steve L "Troy, I'm confused. This seems to say that if the cueball EVER hits the "cushion top" it is a foul, no?"

The rule reads "Balls that strike or touch.....light fixture, chalk on the rails and cushion tops.....shall be considered jumped balls."

Troy...~~~ Reading 3.28

Rod
07-29-2002, 10:16 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Steve_Lipsky:</font><hr> Hi Heater. Actually, I saw that, but for simplicity, I didn't include it. It does seem that the entire paragraph contradicts itself, doesn't it? Or am I reading this wrong?

Thanks,
Steve <hr></blockquote>

Steve, I think lawyers wrote the rules. lol

Troy
07-29-2002, 10:17 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Steve_Lipsky:</font><hr> &lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote: Troy:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr&gt; In all pocket billiard games, when a stroke results in the cue ball or any object ball being a jumped ball off the table, the stroke is a foul. &lt;hr&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Also, in the straight pool tournament we had at Carom Cafe a while back, Tommy Walters accidentally jumped an object ball off the table while playing me. It was late in the game, and I figured it to be a foul.

However, I was immediately told by both Tommy and Danny Barouty that in straight pool, it is NOT a foul.

Was I cheated? /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

- Steve <hr></blockquote>

It would appear by reading 3.28 that they mis-spoke..... /ccboard/images/icons/frown.gif

Troy

07-29-2002, 10:18 AM
Troy, do you have the link to the BCA official rules? I think I gots me some printin' to do, and some crow to serve!

- Steve /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

heater451
07-29-2002, 10:46 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Steve_Lipsky:</font><hr> Yep, I am reading this wrong. I re-read it, and I think that when the paragraph reads, "chalk on the rails and cushion tops" it actually means "chalk on the rails or chalk on the cushion tops".

Sorry for the confusion.

- Steve <hr></blockquote>

Ah, I see what you mean now. . . .

Although, I think it's a little confusing that "jumped balls" seems like it should be "jumped balls off/away from the table. I think it's easy to mix that up with a "jump shot".

SPetty
07-29-2002, 10:50 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Steve_Lipsky:</font><hr> Troy, do you have the link to the BCA official rules? I think I gots me some printin' to do, and some crow to serve!<hr></blockquote>Hi Steve,

The BCA rules can be found at www.bca-pool.com. (http://www.bca-pool.com.) Click Play, then click game rules. Then click the rules of interest. Generally, the general rules are of interest to everyone.

07-29-2002, 10:57 AM
Thanks, SPetty.

Here it is:

"6.9 OBJECT BALLS JUMPED OFF THE TABLE
The stroke is a foul. Any jumped ball(s) is spotted after the balls come to rest. "

I was done cheated!

- Steve

Rod
07-29-2002, 11:07 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Steve_Lipsky:</font><hr> Thanks, SPetty.

Here it is:

"6.9 OBJECT BALLS JUMPED OFF THE TABLE
The stroke is a foul. Any jumped ball(s) is spotted after the balls come to rest. "

I was done cheated!

- Steve <hr></blockquote>

Steve I find it hard to believe a ref wouldn't know that rule! Ah well stranger things have happened, as we know.

07-29-2002, 11:15 AM
Hi Rod. There weren't any refs, per se. And believe me, I was in complete disbelief about what they were ruling... But Danny and Tommy seemed so sure of themselves!

- Steve &lt;--- might respect his elders, but no longer trusts them /ccboard/images/icons/wink.gif

heater451
07-29-2002, 12:43 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Steve_Lipsky:</font><hr> Thanks, SPetty.

Here it is:

"6.9 OBJECT BALLS JUMPED OFF THE TABLE
The stroke is a foul. Any jumped ball(s) is spotted after the balls come to rest. "

I was done cheated!

- Steve <hr></blockquote>Again, this may only mean balls that leave the table 'permanently' (and don't return to the playing surface). Are there any more rules that apply?

NH_Steve
07-29-2002, 03:40 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Troy:</font><hr> Reading 3.28, it's a FOUL if the ball hit the chalk --- but a great shot if the ball goes in the pocket NOT hitting anything but the rail-top.

"3.28 BALLS JUMPED OFF TABLE
Balls coming to rest other than on the bed of the table after a stroke (on the cushion top, rail surface, floor, etc.) are considered jumped balls. Balls may bounce on the cushion tops and rails of the table in play without being jumped balls if they return to the bed of the table under
their own power and without touching anything not a part of the table. The table shall consist of the permanent part of the table proper. (Balls that strike or touch anything not a part of the table, such as the light fixture, chalk on the rails and cushion tops, etc., shall be considered jumped balls even though they might return to the bed of the table after contacting items which are not parts of the table proper). In all pocket billiard games, when a stroke results in the cue ball or any object ball being a jumped ball off the table, the stroke is a foul. All jumped object balls are spotted (except in 8 and 9-Ball) when all balls have stopped moving. See specific game rules for putting the cue ball in play after a jumped cue ball foul."

Troy
<hr></blockquote>
Thanks for digging that up, it does seem that it was a mighty fine -- and legal -- shot, since it didn't clearly hit the chalk -- just passed close to it. Whoever wrote that rule did slip on their English grammar a little with that one phrase, but it still seems clear enough that the intent of that phrase is to refer to hitting an obstruction while bouncing along the top of the rail being a foul, not just bouncing on the rail itself.

Troy
07-29-2002, 08:04 PM
This should work Steve ---
http://www.bca-pool.com/cgi/site/framegate.cgi?url=http://www.bca-pool.com/play/tournaments/rules/rls_gen.shtml&amp;cat=p

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Steve_Lipsky:</font><hr> Troy, do you have the link to the BCA official rules? I think I gots me some printin' to do, and some crow to serve!

- Steve /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

<hr></blockquote>