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LWW
10-16-2007, 04:55 AM
There has never been a proven link showing this country had anything to with our nation being attacked.

They never have had the opportunity to attack the American homeland.

Althought their tyrannical leader was a murderer and a sadist as well as a menace to peace in the region we should have kept our troops home and saved the lives of many Americans plus innocent citizens over there.

The anti war crowd has finally convinced me. It was a noble effort wasted upon barbarians who cannot appreciate the gifts we have given them.

After all we have sacrificed to free them from despotism and rebuild their country after centuries of oppressive rulers this is the thanks we get.

So I join in with the anti war crowd and the new D's in congress. Let's redeploy our troops home from Eurabia.

LWW

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1557842,00.html

hondo
10-16-2007, 06:51 AM
It's about time you woke up. A mind is a terrible
thing to waste.
P.S. Didn't bother to read your link.
I don't post in poltical discussions anymore.
Just thought you deserved a pat on the back if you're
serious.

LWW
10-16-2007, 07:23 AM
You obviously didn't even read the post.

LWW <---unsurprised

wolfdancer
10-17-2007, 06:50 PM
Hondo, I too thought, what a great idea to bring the troops home. We may have freed them from oppression...but at least they had schools, hospitals, roads, families intact, safe drinking water, gasoline, sanitation, and could go to crowded places without fear of being bombed.
"Freedom" came at a high price, and if we do just bring the troops back home now, it'll make the Kosovo ethnic cleansings look like a Saturday nite gang fight in L.A.
And if anybody wants the madness, and killing to end they are called Unpatriotic by the group that buys them little American flags to wear in their lapel, and thinks they are now part of the Band of Brothers that are fighting this war.
I wouldn't read anything posted favoring the war, from someone who has no involvement in it.
Are their any links to sites where combat vets, who fought over there, are actively supporting both the war and Bush?
Shoot, that's a loaded question, because they ain't got time to set up a website between redeployments.

LAMas
10-17-2007, 08:08 PM
Kusinich praises the expert Angelino City Council.

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/27759

wolfdancer
10-17-2007, 08:13 PM
interesting article...

LAMas
10-17-2007, 08:14 PM
Dem Pres candidate praises Angelino City Council - how about the rest of the country?

Submitted by davidswanson on Wed, 2007-10-17 03:58. Elections Home
Kucinich praises Los Angeles City Council vote to bring the troops home
Submitted by davidswanson on Wed, 2007-10-17 03:58. Elections
LOS ANGELES, CA - Ohio Congressman and presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich Tuesday congratulated the Los Angeles City Council for its passage of a resolution urging President Bush and the Congress to end the war in Iraq and bring the troops home.

The resolution, which passed on a 12-2 vote, was sponsored by City Councilor William Rosendahl, a member of the City Council's International Relations Committee. It calls for a complete withdrawal from Iraq of United States military personnel, as well as contractors supporting the military effort and military bases; and also seeks "appropriate medical, psychological, financial and education assistance for veterans" returning from the conflict. And the resolution also supports "non-military financial aid to rebuild Iraq."

LA, with a population of 3.844,000 is the largest American city to have adopted such a resolution.

"I commend Bill Rosendahl, the Los Angeles City Council, and Mayor Antonio Villariagosa for passing this historic resolution and taking a leadership role in the efforts to bring our troops home," said Kucinich, who is the sponsor in Congress of HR 1234, a bill that would implement the actions called for in the Los Angeles resolution.

In 2002, Kucinich led 125 members of the House of Representatives to oppose the invasion of Iraq. He has consistently voted against funding for the war, and has become an increasingly vocal critic of the Democratic Party establishment over its failure to end the war.

"The Democrats have learned nothing since 2006," Kucinich said, "They promised if they were put back in control of the House and the Senate the war in Iraq would end. Now some of the Democratic presidential candidates are saying there won't be an end to the war until at least 2013. The Los Angeles City Council, and the American people, know that is unacceptable."

Kucinich joined Los Angeles Democratic Representatives Maxine Waters and Diane Watson in sending representatives to the City Council meeting to speak in support of the Rosendahl resolution.

wolfdancer
10-17-2007, 08:17 PM
I'm wondering how he can joke, even if it is just sarcasm, about bringing the guys home....

Drop1
10-17-2007, 08:32 PM
I wonder too,considering eight National Guard units,are being called up.

LWW
10-18-2007, 07:59 AM
He's not joking.

Germany wasn't behind 12/7.

There were no Nazis flying the planes into Pearl Harbor.

We have no right to force freedom onto a continent that has enjoyed savagery for centuries.

It's time to pull our troops out of Europe and bring them home.

Why has the US spent trillions on defending the Europeans when they should be doing it themself?

LWW

Qtec
10-18-2007, 09:53 AM
web page (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/26/AR2007042601569.html)
[ QUOTE ]
In 2002, a young Afghan taxi driver named Dilawar, who'd never spent a night away from his dusty little village, got lost in the fog of war and took a wrong turn into an abyss from which he would never return. It was a detention center at Bagram Air Base, where he was grilled on suspicion of being a Taliban fighter. Military interrogators hung him from a cage in chains, kept him up all night and kicked him senseless, turning his legs into pulp.

He lasted only five days. The Army initially attributed his death to natural causes, even though coroners had ruled it a homicide. Low-level soldiers were punished. It turned out that Dilawar (who, like many Afghans, used only one name) was not an enemy fighter, had no terrorist connections and had committed no crime at all. <hr /></blockquote>

I saw this video a week ago. If the guy had live his legs would have had to have been amputated. Rummy and especially Cheney are responsible for the torture of innocent people. They ARE war criminals and broke the Gen Con which the US was bound to uphold.

Q

bamadog
10-18-2007, 10:24 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> web page (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/26/AR2007042601569.html)
&lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
In 2002, a young Afghan taxi driver named Dilawar, who'd never spent a night away from his dusty little village, got lost in the fog of war and took a wrong turn into an abyss from which he would never return. It was a detention center at Bagram Air Base, where he was grilled on suspicion of being a Taliban fighter. Military interrogators hung him from a cage in chains, kept him up all night and kicked him senseless, turning his legs into pulp.

He lasted only five days. The Army initially attributed his death to natural causes, even though coroners had ruled it a homicide. Low-level soldiers were punished. It turned out that Dilawar (who, like many Afghans, used only one name) was not an enemy fighter, had no terrorist connections and had committed no crime at all. <hr /></blockquote>

I saw this video a week ago. If the guy had live his legs would have had to have been amputated. Rummy and especially Cheney are responsible for the torture of innocent people. They ARE war criminals and broke the Gen Con which the US was bound to uphold.

Q <hr /></blockquote>

Unfortunately, many horrible things happen in war.
How do you feel about what Al Qaeda does to our captured soldiers?
How do you feel about what the insurgents and Al Qaeda do to the innocent civilians?

LWW
10-18-2007, 10:32 AM
He won't ever answer a question like that Dawg.

It might put his dhimmi application at risk.

LWW

wolfdancer
10-18-2007, 12:56 PM
Damn Q, looks like both Cisco and Pancho are after you for this post. Watching the Senate confirmation hearings for the new AG yesterday ...cruel and unusual punishment was a big issue. While the Senate has already made a directive on that, it's Bush's contention, that as CinC he is "above the law" once again.
Them be facts.....that can be checked....

LWW
10-18-2007, 01:31 PM
Yet you still continue to refuse linking to these "FACTS" for anyone else to see?

LWW

Qtec
10-18-2007, 02:12 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Attorney General nominee Michael Mukasey's confirmation hearings got underway this morning, and Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Pat Leahy (D-Vt.) explored Mukasey's position on administration torture policies. His response was surprising.

Not only did Michael Mukasey repudiate the so-called 2002 "torture memo" signed by Office of Legal Counsel chief Jay Bybee -- which appears to have survived in spirit, if not in letter -- but he compared U.S. torture to the Holocaust.

Most significantly, Mukasey said that he is unaware of any inherent commander-in-chief authority to override legal restrictions on torture -- a huge repudiation of Dick Cheney, David Addington and John Yoo's perspective on broad constitutional powers possessed by the president in wartime -- or to immunize practitioners of torture from prosecution. That answer is sure to create anxiety inside the CIA, where many interrogators fear that they will be brought up on charges for carrying out interrogation methods earlier approved by the administration.

The Bybee memo is "worse than a sin, it's a mistake," Mukasey said. He referenced the photographs taken by U.S. troops who liberated the Nazi concentration camps in 1945 to document the "barbarism" the U.S. opposed. "They didn't do that so that we could then duplicate it ourselves." Beyond legal restrictions barring torture clearly, torture is "antithetical to everything this country stands for."

Greg Sargent had the same reaction I did -- weren't Republicans apoplectic when Sen. Dick Durbin said something similar two years ago?

Specifically, Durbin, on the Senate floor, said, "If I read this to you and did not tell you that it was an FBI agent describing what Americans had done to prisoners in their control, you would most certainly believe this must have been done by Nazis, Soviets in their gulags, or some mad regime -- Pol Pot or others -- that had no concern for human beings. Sadly, that is not the case. This was the action of Americans in the treatment of their prisoners." <hr /></blockquote>

Two wrongs don't make a right.
[ QUOTE ]
"The law of the Creator, which invests every human being with an inalienable title to freedom, cannot be repealed by any interior law which asserts that man is property." <hr /></blockquote>
You could say the Gitmo prisoners are being treated as 'property'. Do they have any rights at all?



web page (http://www.alternet.org/blogs/video/42339/) web page (http://www.alternet.org/blogs/video/65480/)
Q

SKennedy
10-18-2007, 02:16 PM
War....heroes vs war criminals?
Everybody has their own opinion depending upon which side they are on. But the bottom line....it depends upon which one is the "victor" and which one is the "loser". Truth is that there are many losers, heroes, and "war criminals" on each side and in reality very few victors. Thank God war is so unpleasant, otherwise with human nature the way it is, we would have so many more of them.

bamadog
10-18-2007, 08:39 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> &lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
Attorney General nominee Michael Mukasey's confirmation hearings got underway this morning, and Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Pat Leahy (D-Vt.) explored Mukasey's position on administration torture policies. His response was surprising.

Not only did Michael Mukasey repudiate the so-called 2002 "torture memo" signed by Office of Legal Counsel chief Jay Bybee -- which appears to have survived in spirit, if not in letter -- but he compared U.S. torture to the Holocaust.

Most significantly, Mukasey said that he is unaware of any inherent commander-in-chief authority to override legal restrictions on torture -- a huge repudiation of Dick Cheney, David Addington and John Yoo's perspective on broad constitutional powers possessed by the president in wartime -- or to immunize practitioners of torture from prosecution. That answer is sure to create anxiety inside the CIA, where many interrogators fear that they will be brought up on charges for carrying out interrogation methods earlier approved by the administration.

The Bybee memo is "worse than a sin, it's a mistake," Mukasey said. He referenced the photographs taken by U.S. troops who liberated the Nazi concentration camps in 1945 to document the "barbarism" the U.S. opposed. "They didn't do that so that we could then duplicate it ourselves." Beyond legal restrictions barring torture clearly, torture is "antithetical to everything this country stands for."

Greg Sargent had the same reaction I did -- weren't Republicans apoplectic when Sen. Dick Durbin said something similar two years ago?

Specifically, Durbin, on the Senate floor, said, "If I read this to you and did not tell you that it was an FBI agent describing what Americans had done to prisoners in their control, you would most certainly believe this must have been done by Nazis, Soviets in their gulags, or some mad regime -- Pol Pot or others -- that had no concern for human beings. Sadly, that is not the case. This was the action of Americans in the treatment of their prisoners." <hr /></blockquote>

Two wrongs don't make a right.
&lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
"The law of the Creator, which invests every human being with an inalienable title to freedom, cannot be repealed by any interior law which asserts that man is property." <hr /></blockquote>
You could say the Gitmo prisoners are being treated as 'property'. Do they have any rights at all?



web page (http://www.alternet.org/blogs/video/42339/) web page (http://www.alternet.org/blogs/video/65480/)
Q <hr /></blockquote>

You were right El Dub, he won't answer.
Let me try this.
What should happen to the Dutch troops who let all those innocent civilians get butchered because they didn't want to defend them?
Or is your hatred only for America?

bamadog
10-18-2007, 10:46 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> Hondo, I too thought, what a great idea to bring the troops home. We may have freed them from oppression...but at least they had schools, hospitals, roads, families intact, safe drinking water, gasoline, sanitation, and could go to crowded places without fear of being bombed.
"Freedom" came at a high price, and if we do just bring the troops back home now, it'll make the Kosovo ethnic cleansings look like a Saturday nite gang fight in L.A.
And if anybody wants the madness, and killing to end they are called Unpatriotic by the group that buys them little American flags to wear in their lapel, and thinks they are now part of the Band of Brothers that are fighting this war.
I wouldn't read anything posted favoring the war, from someone who has no involvement in it.
Are their any links to sites where combat vets, who fought over there, are actively supporting both the war and Bush?
Shoot, that's a loaded question, because they ain't got time to set up a website between redeployments. <hr /></blockquote>

Listen up Toto,
US servicemen who voted in the last presidential election, voted nearly 4 to 1 for Bush.

Why do you think Gore was so determined to have the military absentee vote disqualified in 2000?

wolfdancer
10-19-2007, 12:36 AM
Maybe I should have taped c-span for you two **** what is it dumb and dumber day? paid holiday maybe, for you two???. If you and your dog here can refute what was said in the Senate, and is available since it is a **** matter of public record....it's your job to do the research....
Do you write his material, by the way???
Let me make this clear...I won't answer any more stupid questions from you guys even if you put your head together to compose them...
It's pretty obvious that you are over just to cause trouble.....Hondo said you was smart and the other guy couldn't tie his shoelaces without help...now I'm thinking you both should buy loafers....Here's the thing...see if you can understand.... I can't see one thing to like about either of you to, and hate myself for replying.....because that's really all you're trying to do...get people mad enough to respond....'cause I know you weren't expecting to sell any of that crap that you post, and have people buy into it....
sayonara

wolfdancer
10-19-2007, 01:05 AM
Thanks for sharing that.
What is it with this Toto thing....you still reading Alice in Wonderland....? OR, and this would be beyond your thinking from what I've read so far...you is the bamadog (how **** impressive is that?)....and Toto is just a little feller, so you feel like you can intimidate me cause you **** know you can't outsmart me....
So Tonto....why don't you and your faithful companion...get on your ponies and ride off into the sunset??? since as you say over there, it's a wasteland here, and you have already conquered veni, vidi, vici (uh, that's Latin)....there's more windmills to joust elsewhere, Pancho, for you and the Don..........
If you don't mind though...while it's fun matching wits with a half-wit.....ain't nobody here on this board really wants to read through your s**t and mine, just to see if someone posted anything interesting....so I'm going to give the board a break....cease replying and you guys can .....you know I was reading LWW's posts on the other board and he mentioned this is a right handed circle jerk here,,,, and two replies later,it became a left handed one.....so which is it...cause being left handed....I don't want to look out of place when I join you two.
LWW can't even remember which circle he joined..how can we take him serious about politics? How can we take you **** serious on anything else?

LWW
10-19-2007, 04:10 AM
Whoa there big feller...

...you made an accusation I couldn't link anything and then when I do you shift topics like it never happened.

I enter your own actions as evidence that either:

1-You knew the truth before the accusation, but truth didn't matter.
2-You know the truth know and ignore it because truth doesn't matter.

Seen any buildings exploding top down from the bottom up?

LWW

LWW
10-19-2007, 04:13 AM
OOH! OOH! OOH!

Because he knew he was a loser unless he screwed our armed forces and the people both!

LWW &lt;---Pays attention to the world as it is.

Qtec
10-19-2007, 05:43 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Unfortunately, many horrible things happen in war.
How do you feel about what Al Qaeda does to our captured soldiers?
How do you feel about what the insurgents and Al Qaeda do to the innocent civilians? <hr /></blockquote>

I think its disgusting. That's why we shouldn't do it as well.

Q

eg8r
10-19-2007, 06:10 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I think its disgusting. That's why we shouldn't do it as well. <hr /></blockquote> What is this "we" part? Have the dutch taken over some terrorists captives?

eg8r

hondo
10-19-2007, 06:28 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bamadog:</font><hr>

Listen up Toto,
<hr /></blockquote>

And there you have it, Wolfie. In 3 words he has
illustrated why I am not interested in discussing
politics with these guys.

hondo
10-19-2007, 06:33 AM
Wolfie, WADR, you are falling into their trap.
Rise above the name-calling &amp; put them back on ignore.
Probably my last comment about "the Wars" on either
board for me. It's so tiresome.

LWW
10-19-2007, 07:29 AM
Hondo, if your indignation over insults ever was balanced you would gain credibility.

LWW

Qtec
10-19-2007, 09:59 AM
What accusation?

Q

Qtec
10-19-2007, 10:04 AM
There are dutch troops in Afghanistan.
Do you remember that country? Its the place where all the terrorists were BEFORE the US invaded Iraq!


Q.......... /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Qtec
10-19-2007, 10:10 AM
Are the most paranoid people on Earth RW Republicans?
The story about the elephant being scared of the mouse comes to mind.
These guys complain about the Nanny State but when a bomb goes of its,
"Please Mr President, protect me. I will give up all the rights won for me by previous generations if you will just save me from the towelheads."....................puke.


Q...........and oil hits $90 a barrel. I guess the Saudis are doing well, Exxon, etc

Q

Qtec
10-19-2007, 10:13 AM
You are the one saying that that the Eurpeans are against the US just because they are against torture and FOR the Geneva Con.
Most of the original GW admin should be in jail..................oh wait.......most of them are.
LOL

Q

bamadog
10-19-2007, 10:17 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> There are dutch troops in Afghanistan.
Do you remember that country? Its the place where all the terrorists were BEFORE the US invaded Iraq!




Q.......... /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Let's just hope those Dutch troops are not entrusted with protecting civilians.

Qtec
10-19-2007, 10:22 AM
Are you for or against torture?
This is the question.


Q

LWW
10-19-2007, 11:24 AM
That I never link things Qtec.

LWW

LWW
10-19-2007, 11:26 AM
That is the most illogical thought I've heard you have.

ALL the terrorists were in Afghanland before we went into Iraq! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

That's rich bro.

LWW

LWW
10-19-2007, 11:27 AM
Showing a touch of racism are we?

LWW

LWW
10-19-2007, 11:29 AM
OH MY GAWD!

You almost didn't have me again because I didn't say that...and you knew that.

You must have a really good strawman provider to keep propping them up like that.

Do you always imagine another me that says what you wish I had said you can act so smart?

LWW

eg8r
10-20-2007, 11:56 AM
Since you have a problem following your OWN branch in this discussion let me remind you of what you said... <blockquote><font class="small">Quote q:</font><hr> They ARE war criminals and broke the Gen Con which the US was bound to uphold.
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bama:</font><hr> Unfortunately, many horrible things happen in war.
How do you feel about what Al Qaeda does to our captured soldiers?
How do you feel about what the insurgents and Al Qaeda do to the innocent civilians?
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote q:</font><hr> I think its disgusting. That's why we shouldn't do it as well. <blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> What is this "we" part? <blockquote><font class="small">Quote q:</font><hr> There are dutch troops in Afghanistan.
Do you remember that country? Its the place where all the terrorists were BEFORE the US invaded Iraq!

<hr /></blockquote> <hr /></blockquote> <hr /></blockquote> <hr /></blockquote> <hr /></blockquote> So now that all the posts are all in one place so your mind cannot wander (as fast), maybe it will be easy for you to follow the discussion. You do not need to use the word "we", you are not part of the US no matter how bad you want to be.

eg8r

eg8r
10-20-2007, 11:57 AM
I am against torture, but I just cannot figure out how to get you to stop all the stupid questions that lead no where. Since you will not stop these stupid questions, your purpose must be to torture us.

eg8r

Wally_in_Cincy
10-20-2007, 12:14 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> I am against torture, but I just cannot figure out how to get you to stop all the stupid questions that lead no where. Since you will not stop these stupid questions, your purpose must be to torture us.

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>

He tortures me, that's for sure.

Gayle too /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I guess it's the "tortured logic" they employ

eg8r
10-20-2007, 12:17 PM
Hey Wally, are you ready for the game? Only a couple hours away. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r

Wally_in_Cincy
10-20-2007, 12:57 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> Hey Wally, are you ready for the game? Only a couple hours away. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>

I don't have a good feeling about this one. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

I've been down to Lexington for a few basketball games but never football. I did catch the KY-LSU game last week.



<font color="red">P.S. when you said a couple of hours away I thought you meant Lexington, which is "a couple of hours away" /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif </font color>

Qtec
10-20-2007, 08:35 PM
LWW,s link.
[ QUOTE ]
Just days after his resignation, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is about to face more repercussions for his involvement in the troubled wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. New legal documents, to be filed next week with Germany's top prosecutor, will seek a criminal investigation and prosecution of Rumsfeld, along with Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, former CIA director George Tenet and other senior U.S. civilian and military officers, for their alleged roles in abuses committed at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison and at the U.S. detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. <hr /></blockquote>

LWW is saying that the US should withdraw all their troops from Europe because WE [ the Euro's ] don't go along with the BS continually being spewed by GW, Cheney and Rummy. We find torture totally against the human rights that WE and YOU have fought for in the last world war. WE are not prepared to become barbarians just because the Islamic whackos use barbaric tactics.
We are not prepared to give up everything we believe for political expedience.
Do you get it now?
Did you read my link? Imagine hanging by your arms from the ceiling and being pummeled for two days. The bones in your legs are shattered and they still hit you constantly because you are groaning from the pain and they want you to shut up.
Think about it.

What would Jesus say about this?

Q