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steve617
10-20-2007, 07:32 PM
I bought my table about 4 weeks ago and have played nearly everyday and just bought a new cue last week. (Lucasi Hybrid). Just curtious how many shots a intermediate player would take to clear a table in 9 ball when playing alone. I counted my shots today and I an cosistant around 17 shots. I know a lot of good players can run the table but right now I feel I have greatly improved and am starting to feel confident in my shots. These 4 weeks of playing is been the first time I played since my teen years in the late 70's. Thanks

wolfdancer
10-21-2007, 02:47 AM
Steve, if you want to improve a little faster, and with less frustration....they general method is to break the rack, and remove the lowest 4 or 5 balls, take ball in hand and try to run out....as you run out about 70% of the time, just remove 1 less ball until you have a full rack....you might get a few better suggestions, but that was the old way to do it.

pooltchr
10-21-2007, 04:31 AM
We have a drill we call "piling rocks" where you put 10 balls on the table, take ball in hand and start making shots. Remove any ball you miss, and at the end, you know your percentage made. We have many students who start out at around 70% or better. Of course, they don't work on the drill until they have finished the course.
Steve

1Time
10-21-2007, 05:51 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> Steve, if you want to improve a little faster, and with less frustration....they general method is to break the rack, and remove the lowest 4 or 5 balls, take ball in hand and try to run out....as you run out about 70% of the time, just remove 1 less ball until you have a full rack....you might get a few better suggestions, but that was the old way to do it.
<hr /></blockquote>

Over 20 years ago I discovered my 9-ball game was lacking near the end of the game when it counted the most. And so I started practicing a drill similar to this and it improved my game quite dramatically.

I started by throwing out the 7, 8, and 9 in easy patterns to run. I focused on making the shots and moving the CB around. And then I progressively made the layouts harder to run. Then once "comfortable" doing this, I included the 6 ball and then later the 5. I ended up just leaving the 9 at the foot of the table and throwing the other balls out mostly at random. I never thought to include the break though I guess since it wasn't the weak part of my game.

steve617
10-21-2007, 06:01 AM
Thanks everyone all of these sounds like very good drills and I will include these in my daily routine. One thing I must say you all are defiently helping me take my game to the next level. Thanks again
Steve

1Time
10-21-2007, 06:16 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote steve617:</font><hr> Just curtious how many shots a intermediate player would take to clear a table in 9 ball when playing alone. I counted my shots today and I an cosistant around 17 shots.<hr /></blockquote>

The number of shots it takes to run a 9-ball rack will vary. If you only count the number of shots it takes, you're only measuring the offensive aspect of the game. It's a very common folly among lower level players to disregard the defensive aspect in pool. A better measure of your skill level in 9-ball factors in the defensive aspect of the game. I am now trying to develop a 9-Ball Performance Rating Exercise with the help of BD members in another thread that does just that.

I'd say you'd be far better off working on drills for a while. Begin by focusing on pocketing balls and then progressively incorporate moving the CB around more into position for subsequent shots. I recommend building on your successes instead of rushing it.

steve617
10-22-2007, 09:22 PM
I tried the pilling rocks game and was consistant at 7 of 10 and once I knocked my first 9 but choked on the last shot. One thing it makes me do is concentrate on each shot.

Tony_in_MD
10-22-2007, 09:44 PM
Thought I would jump in with some advice.

Start with 3 balls and break them. NEVER throw the balls out on the table. The break is the most important shot in 9 ball, practice it often.

Anyway after breaking take ball in hand and run out the balls, work to achieve stop ball patterns as much as possible.

After you become proficient at this add another ball until you can run out consistantly, keep going till you get to 9.

You can also start with 3, then go to 6 then to 9 as you get better instead of adding a ball each time. The key is always break the balls, then take ball in hand to start your patterns.

1Time
10-23-2007, 12:27 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Tony_in_MD:</font><hr> Start with 3 balls and break them. NEVER throw the balls out on the table. The break is the most important shot in 9 ball, practice it often.<hr /></blockquote>

Of course the break is an important shot in 9-ball, and it should be practiced a lot. However, I don't consider breaking with less than 9 balls helpful enough to one's 9-ball game to recommend it. And, I don't consider it necessary or even desirable to always break a rack when practicing for 9-ball.

dr_dave
10-23-2007, 09:33 AM
If you want a means to evaluate your offensive abilities, the 9-ball evaluation drill (http://billiards.colostate.edu/resources/nine-ball_drill.pdf) provides a straightforward way to measure you skill level (using several scales) and track your progress over time.

Regards,
Dave

Jager85
10-23-2007, 11:17 AM
Cue bal control on the break can be practiced with any number of balls being broken. I liked the point about always breaking, I usually throw balls out on the table, but this sounds like it would help as my break definately needs improvement.

BigRigTom
10-23-2007, 12:25 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Tony_in_MD:</font><hr> Thought I would jump in with some advice.

Start with 3 balls and break them. NEVER throw the balls out on the table. The break is the most important shot in 9 ball, practice it often.

Anyway after breaking take ball in hand and run out the balls, work to achieve stop ball patterns as much as possible.

After you become proficient at this add another ball until you can run out consistantly, keep going till you get to 9.

You can also start with 3, then go to 6 then to 9 as you get better instead of adding a ball each time. The key is always break the balls, then take ball in hand to start your patterns. <hr /></blockquote>

Great Idea Tony!
I practice my break a lot and I practice running balls a lot and now I will be doing both at the same time.
The controlled break in 9 ball is an absolutely necessary shot to have in one's arsenal when playing 9 ball and it becomes even more important in the APA where every ball counts and you have to make the 9 ball (getting those 2 points) to win the opportunity to break the next rack.

okinawa77
10-23-2007, 01:07 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Tony_in_MD:</font><hr>
Start with 3 balls and break them. NEVER throw the balls out on the table. The break is the most important shot in 9 ball, practice it often.<hr /></blockquote>
<font color="blue"> I like this concept. I sometimes play 3 ball for money, and the ability to pocket a ball or 2 on the break is a huge advantage. Progressively adding balls to the rack will enable you to determine how the balls react during the break. Knowing how the first 3 balls in the 9 ball rack will react can enable you to determine how the other balls in the rack will spread. I am definitely going to work on this from a break perspective. Thanks for the tidbit. </font color>

bradb
10-23-2007, 02:49 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote steve617:</font><hr> I bought my table about 4 weeks ago and have played nearly everyday and just bought a new cue last week. (Lucasi Hybrid). Just curtious how many shots a intermediate player would take to clear a table in 9 ball when playing alone. I counted my shots today and I an cosistant around 17 shots. I know a lot of good players can run the table but right now I feel I have greatly improved and am starting to feel confident in my shots. These 4 weeks of playing is been the first time I played since my teen years in the late 70's. Thanks <hr /></blockquote>

Some good replies here to evaluate your play, but they are all "practice" tests which measure your uninterupted play where you can get a nice groove going with no pressure.

A good way to start out is to join a C division 8 ball league which consist's of low to mid level players like yourself. It's friendly competition and you can learn a lot plus meet new friends who share your interest. Your play is carefully measured and you can see your average in all categories.

Practice is very important but there is nothing like a real game to measure your true skill. You may have learned a shot in practise but can you execute it coming to the table cold after your opponent has you down 3 games?

I think all experienced players here will tell you that your true skill level includes your head space... your ability to focus and apply your skills under pressure.

-brad

bradb
10-23-2007, 03:18 PM
I thought I would toss this in also.
I consider myself a fairly good shot maker, I even took on a pro to see what my average might be.
Forget averages!... I might as well not even been there except to rack. I can make any shot, but I never got a one. Its more than pocketing balls, its safety play and hooks. And thats all I saw. -brad

KellyStick
10-24-2007, 11:35 AM
I'm not a big nine ball player but someone else mentioned to not underestimate the defensive side of play. Sure some can run out frequently. But you could get the wrong impression about defense if you are watching mush nine ball on ESPN for example. Not that there is mush to watch. For some reason I don't see much defence shown on american TV in regard to pool. They skip a lot of the defencive battles. Heck they skip whole games between commercials.

The most enjoyment I got outa watching pool was over in Holland (Den Hague). I turned on the TV to unwind a bit and caught a snooker match in progress. They showed every single shot and did not go to another program until the match was over! You would never see that in America. Anyway, don't forget defence.

Fran Crimi
10-24-2007, 11:57 AM
I'm not sure what defensive battles you are referring to in 9 Ball as far as not seeing them on ESPN. For example: A player plays a safety shot and if it's a good safety on a pro level, the incoming player will have to kick at it. If they hit the ball, they may leave a shot, and if they miss it, it's ball in hand. So the 'defensive battle' is over in two shots. So what could possibly be the defensive battles you're referring to that ESPN is depriving us of?

Fran


<blockquote><font class="small">Quote KellyStick:</font><hr> I'm not a big nine ball player but someone else mentioned to not underestimate the defensive side of play. Sure some can run out frequently. But you could get the wrong impression about defense if you are watching mush nine ball on ESPN for example. Not that there is mush to watch. For some reason I don't see much defence shown on american TV in regard to pool. They skip a lot of the defencive battles. Heck they skip whole games between commercials.

The most enjoyment I got outa watching pool was over in Holland (Den Hague). I turned on the TV to unwind a bit and caught a snooker match in progress. They showed every single shot and did not go to another program until the match was over! You would never see that in America. Anyway, don't forget defence. <hr /></blockquote>

okinawa77
10-24-2007, 12:06 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bradb:</font><hr> I thought I would toss this in also.
I consider myself a fairly good shot maker, I even took on a pro to see what my average might be.
Forget averages!... I might as well not even been there except to rack. I can make any shot, but I never got a one. Its more than pocketing balls, its safety play and hooks. And thats all I saw. -brad <hr /></blockquote>
<font color="blue"> I recommend working on your kick shots.
In league play, we have some players that will try to play defensively against me, but they will learn rather quickly that they better have a very, very strong defense. Otherwise, I will kick at the ball and make it, or leave them hooked.

Playing defenses, in my opinion, requires more cue ball control than pocketing balls and getting position on your next shot...but that may be because...I consider leaving the cue ball frozen to another ball, a decent defense.</font color>

MikeM
10-24-2007, 12:38 PM
I agree. I just watched one this morning between Ga Young Kim and Allison Fisher. Lasted three or four shots and Ga Young eventually got the shot she needed to run out.

MM

bradb
10-24-2007, 01:04 PM
<hr /></blockquote>
<font color="blue"> I recommend working on your kick shots.
In league play, we have some players that will try to play defensively against me, but they will learn rather quickly that they better have a very, very strong defense. Otherwise, I will kick at the ball and make it, or leave them hooked.

Playing defenses, in my opinion, requires more cue ball control than pocketing balls and getting position on your next shot...but that may be because...I consider leaving the cue ball frozen to another ball, a decent defense.</font color> <hr /></blockquote>

No argument here.
At the top level of play a safety or simple hook is not good enough. You must be able to not just hit the ball... but hit it on the side you want! There is the jump shot, but the pro I play relies mostly on his kicking abilty.

The rails and table cloth vary from table to table so I practise kick shots and bank to a hook shots on every table i'm faced with.

SKennedy
10-24-2007, 01:36 PM
Kick shots over jump shots any day....same way with cut over bank.

okinawa77
10-24-2007, 03:48 PM
Masse shots over short jump shots, for me.
For some odd reason, I can shoot masse shots with much more success than jump shots.

SKennedy
10-24-2007, 04:00 PM
I did manage a nice masse shot last night. It was very pretty. I also had a nice jump shot and a nice kick shot. I surprised myself by them. However, none of these nice shots were in any games that mattered. And, it's the easy shots we take for granted I have trouble with, as do most of the players I know.

bradb
10-24-2007, 04:15 PM
I watch some of my younger 8 ball teamates making errors in play by being to aggressive. I can't say anything of course, I just have to sit there and watch them lose a game.

A good example is a low percentage bank shot which if missed, leaves the opposition an easy out. Example: two balls near the rail close together. If they hit one to the rail and stun the QB behind the other... its a killer hook! Instead they try and bank it in and pull out for shape on the other.

Everybody wants to look like Reyes, to bad they don't watch his rare but timely safety play. -brad

steve617
10-24-2007, 08:20 PM
That is a great idea on te 8 ball league. I may check into that after I finish my 2 computer classes I am taking at my local college. I will ask at my LPH what they have scheduled.

Snapshot9
10-25-2007, 06:22 AM
The only way you beat a 'better' player is with Defense.

Yet defense is not practiced near near as much as offense.

Question: Do you practice 'carom' safeties? Do you practice double kiss safeties? I do, and they have saved me many times. Being able to put a good safety on someone can range from easy to extremely difficult. Are you prepared for any defensive situation that might arise???

Derek
10-25-2007, 01:32 PM
I think the best evaluation is what you produce in wins, such as league matches, tournaments, and money games. I'm fairly confident in playing with a lot of top players in the area, but I have a hard time sealing the deal over a stretch run. Consistency, consistency, consistency. We can all practice to our heart's content at home with drills and ghost ball sessions, but how does it transfer over during an actual match?

It would be kind of nice to drag along a "caddy" who recorded your Accu-Stats formula results for your 9-ball matches. I always found that formula to be a good evaluator, although it disrupts momentum in a practice session while having to record and remember all of those notations.

Deeman3
10-25-2007, 05:52 PM
I don't want to start beating another dead horse here but...

It seems a lot of players now play in such short spurts like league play and short race tournments that hanging in there for the long haul is become a lost art of sorts.

In a typical league, you may play 5 games or so. That, combined with a short warm-up and many may not ever know what it's like to play a "night" of pool, much less a night and much of the next morning.

What is a really typical "session" these days? It used to start on Friday night and end when you went broke. /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

1Time
10-25-2007, 08:45 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman3:</font><hr>
What is a really typical "session" these days? It used to start on Friday night and end when you went broke. /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif <hr /></blockquote>

It may have ended when "you" went broke, but it usually ended for me when everyone else gave up and went home.

Deeman3
10-26-2007, 07:12 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote 1Time:</font><hr> <hr /></blockquote>

It may have ended when "you" went broke, but it usually ended for me when everyone else gave up and went home. <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue"> Not many of us are blessed with your outstanding skills, amazing level of advanced knowledge and famous killer instinct in pool.</font color>

wolfdancer
10-26-2007, 09:41 AM
I believe the gauntlet has been thrown...but it looks like a mismatch.
You, an admitted chronic loser, and .....

1Time
10-26-2007, 09:46 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman3:</font><hr>
<font color="blue"> Not many of us are blessed with your outstanding skills, amazing level of advanced knowledge and famous killer instinct in pool.</font color> <hr /></blockquote>

Yep, that's a good one. Two jokes in a row tops my one.

bradb
10-30-2007, 04:37 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman3:</font><hr> I don't want to start beating another dead horse here but...

It seems a lot of players now play in such short spurts like league play and short race tournments that hanging in there for the long haul is become a lost art of sorts.

In a typical league, you may play 5 games or so. That, combined with a short warm-up and many may not ever know what it's like to play a "night" of pool, much less a night and much of the next morning.

What is a really typical "session" these days? It used to start on Friday night and end when you went broke. /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif <hr /></blockquote>

My league is the typical monday night 5 game schedule, but my team gets together as much as possible to play each other in our own little playoff. Sometimes the best player in stats does'nt win, it shows that you can have off nights or the worst player can get hot. If you can run the table you can beat anybody.

1Time
10-30-2007, 08:56 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bradb:</font><hr>Sometimes the best player in stats does'nt win, it shows that you can have off nights or the worst player can get hot. If you can run the table you can beat anybody. <hr /></blockquote>

And sometimes the best player really isn't that good. And other times the best player is that good and doesn't give a Schmo the chance to break.

DickLeonard
11-01-2007, 02:31 PM
Deeman I remember watching Poghkepsie Mel playing Eddie Kelly in Hudson NY. Eddie was giving Mel the called eight ball. Kelly said to Mel I have to go to the motel and get some sleep. Mel said I'll give you the called eight if you stay.

Sad to say Mel lost another 2 thousand to Kelly. He was addicted to losing.####

Deeman3
11-01-2007, 02:54 PM
I believe Kelly could have given almost anyone the 8 back then. I can't imagine anyone giving him the eight in their right mind. I know, you'll say Mel was a Republican... /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I never beleived some folks were addicted to losing but I have met a couple. If they win, they play til they lose. Of course, I never ran into them when I was young and poor. /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif