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View Full Version : 9-ball 3 foul!!!!



Lester
07-29-2002, 08:30 AM
Okay, is it me or do you get the feeling you must be doing something right when you're opponent tries to get you to 3-foul? I always think this first, then I get mad. ***Lester***

Rich R.
07-29-2002, 09:02 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Lester:</font><hr> Okay, is it me or do you get the feeling you must be doing something right when you're opponent tries to get you to 3-foul? I always think this first, then I get mad. ***Lester*** <hr></blockquote>
I would think that he is smart and trying, in every possible way, to beat you. /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif
Rich R.

StLSteve
07-29-2002, 09:07 AM
This is one of those things that go both ways, it is a compliment to your skill in that if you have a shot you may runout. Sometimes the person playing the game using safes isn't confident enough, or doesn't feel they have the skill to runout given a shot. Other times both players are good enough and the first mistake by either player will be the end of the game. It seems to be that way with a better shooter, the first mistake loses the game. And yes it is maddening/frustrating to find yourself on the wrong end of a good safe, but thats the way the balls roll sometime.

Jay M
07-29-2002, 09:17 AM
3 foul is an offensive weapon when it is used by a good player.

To me, a win by three fouling someone early in a set is better than running on them. The reason is the psychological value. You see, most people HATE to be 3 fouled and they either get mad or frustrated when it happens. There are very few, even among the pros, that will just shake off being 3 fouled, especially if you run the next rack or 3 foul them again.

Just make sure that your safeties are air tight or they may get a lucky kick that goes in and leaves them the run.

Jay M

Lester
07-29-2002, 09:21 AM
&lt;hr&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I would think that he is smart and trying, in every possible way, to beat you. /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif
Rich R. <hr></blockquote> Happened Saturday, with two different opponents. Both of them play good enough that we play even. I was playing well, but instead of trying to run with a fairly open table, they tried to get me to 3foul. In their defense, I might add that in both cases, I was up a couple sets. At the time I thought they wanted to "slow" me down, but they had an open table - - - - and didn't try to shoot em in. The "slow-down" didn't work, BTW ***Lester***

Lester
07-29-2002, 09:25 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Jay M:</font><hr> 3 foul is an offensive weapon when it is used by a good player.

To me, a win by three fouling someone early in a set is better than running on them. The reason is the psychological value. You see, most people HATE to be 3 fouled and they either get mad or frustrated when it happens. There are very few, even among the pros, that will just shake off being 3 fouled, especially if you run the next rack or 3 foul them again.

Just make sure that your safeties are air tight or they may get a lucky kick that goes in and leaves them the run.

Jay M <hr></blockquote>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; You're right about that psychological factor, Jay. But I gotta tell ya, I definitely will remember this ploy and use it back on them FIRST THING when we match up again. ha ha ***Lester***~ I owe em!

Doctor_D
07-29-2002, 09:31 AM
Good morning:

Fouling out an opponent is an integral part of 9 Ball strategy. The higher the skill level of the opponenet, coupled with their ability to kick and/or jump, will underscore the value and the effectiveness of the tactic.

Dr. D.

07-29-2002, 09:32 AM
Lester, nothing at all should be read into your opponent's choice to put you on three.

If the balls are clustered, not only does it make the runout harder - it also allows for easier safes.

Also, don't get mad when your opponent tries to put you on three. At least you know you're getting back to the table, even if only to kick.

- Steve Lipsky

Lester
07-29-2002, 10:09 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Steve_Lipsky:</font><hr> Lester, nothing at all should be read into your opponent's choice to put you on three.

If the balls are clustered, not only does it make the runout harder - it also allows for easier safes.

Also, don't get mad when your opponent tries to put you on three. At least you know you're getting back to the table, even if only to kick.

- Steve Lipsky <hr></blockquote>&gt;&gt;&gt;I hear you Steve. **Lester**

Rich R.
07-29-2002, 10:14 AM
Lester, I think you are reading too much into the actions of your opponents. I think they just made a choice. Remember, it takes up to 9 good shots to run a rack and it only takes 3 to win on fouls. I think they made a choice that it was easier to win on fouls, than run the table. Fortunate for you it did not work. /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif Possibly, if they tried to run the table, that wouldn't have worked, for them, either.
Rich R.

Lester
07-29-2002, 10:30 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Rich R.:</font><hr> Lester, I think you are reading too much into the actions of your opponents. I think they just made a choice. Remember, it takes up to 9 good shots to run a rack and it only takes 3 to win on fouls. I think they made a choice that it was easier to win on fouls, than run the table. Fortunate for you it did not work. /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif Possibly, if they tried to run the table, that wouldn't have worked, for them, either.
Rich R. <hr></blockquote>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;Duly noted Rich! But I'm still gonna try to make them 3foul the first game when next we play. ha ha A "choice" I will make - just for the halibut. (that's a fish) ha ha ***Lester***

Rod
07-29-2002, 10:34 AM
Lester, I'm not a fan of three foul. I never included the three foul in my tournaments. I can read what their doing several ways, just knowing the player helps. Some don't have the balls to shoot and just want go for a cheap win. Their lack of confidence shows many times. If they use it as a slow up technique, it can backfire on them, especially if they lack confidence in their ability. Actually I've seen matches that take longer with this rule in force. At the lower level they get ball in hand and can't run the last three or get the third foul for the win.

Rich R.
07-29-2002, 10:58 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Lester:</font><hr>Duly noted Rich! But I'm still gonna try to make them 3foul the first game when next we play. ha ha A "choice" I will make - just for the halibut. (that's a fish) ha ha ***Lester*** <hr></blockquote>
Lester, it is a "choice" you should be looking at all of the time, not just for revenge. /ccboard/images/icons/wink.gif It takes just as much skill to shoot a good safety as it does to make a good shot.
Rich R.~~~wishes the APA had the 3 foul rule.

Lester
07-29-2002, 11:12 AM
&lt;hr&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Lester, it is a "choice" you should be looking at all of the time, not just for revenge. /ccboard/images/icons/wink.gif It takes just as much skill to shoot a good safety as it does to make a good shot.Rich R.~~~wishes the APA had the 3 foul rule. <hr></blockquote>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;Rich, I will be looking more now. Even though neither was successful, It's not revenge - more I want to send a message, and set the tone of the match. And also, that I didn't forget our last encounter. Both matches were fun and I enjoy playing both opponents. I guess I was really surprised they both tried this, not knowing about each other. ***Lester***

Vapros
07-29-2002, 11:46 AM
That's what I was going to say, pal, but you beat me to it. There's something frustrating about being stuck up good three times in a row, and it might be worth more than just the immediate win. I imagine this practice will continue as long as there is such a rule. Also, for what it's worth, I like the rule. It injects a little one-pocket play into a nine ball game, and that's good. Having good control of the rock is an acquired skill and well worth pursuing.

Well said, Jay!

07-29-2002, 02:41 PM
Lester, as you know among good players 3-fouling is an accepted strategical part of the game - when the layout of the rack dictates an easier 3-foul opportunity than the chance at the run-out would be.

When I see or I'm playing against an opponent who chooses to try to 3-foul when they have an open rack and an obvious chance to run out, I see it as their lack of confidence and a weakness in their game - in that they would choose an attempt to go for the 3-foul versus the fairly straight forward runout. Same can be said for an opponent who (particularly with ball-in-hand) chooses to try a fairly low percentage combo on the 9-ball rather than attempt what appears to be an easy run-out.

My experience is that these players that go for the 3-foul when they really don't need to usually end up screwing it up. They don't have good enough cue-ball control to successfully pull if off against a good player who can kick well. If they did - they'd just go ahead and run out the rack! - Chris in NC

07-29-2002, 03:02 PM
Chris, well said.

- Steve

07-29-2002, 05:08 PM
Vapros:

You and Jay make good points!

It seems to me that younger players, and especially younger men, often react emotionally to challenges that are simply technical--or just a matter of business. They get angry or they get scared--and then they make mistakes. An opponent who is emotionally volatile is an opponent who can be maniplulated and beaten. Good safety play is the perfect weapon to use against such an opponent.


OSV

Jay M
07-29-2002, 05:24 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: ChrisinNC:</font><hr>
When I see or I'm playing against an opponent who chooses to try to 3-foul when they have an open rack and an obvious chance to run out, I see it as their lack of confidence and a weakness in their game - in that they would choose an attempt to go for the 3-foul versus the fairly straight forward runout. Same can be said for an opponent who (particularly with ball-in-hand) chooses to try a fairly low percentage combo on the 9-ball rather than attempt what appears to be an easy run-out.
<hr></blockquote>

US Open last year, it's the first round of play and I am up against Ronnie Wiseman. He scratches the first break and leaves a mess over in one corner. I break the one ball out of the center of the mess leaving him safe and opening the table. He misses the hit and is on two fouls. The table is open now. Rather than playing the run, I choose to hit the one ball over to the other side of the mess and freeze him between the rail and the 4. Three fouls, first win goes to me. I break on the second rack and nothing goes in. Ronnie has a straight in shot on the one and no problem balls. He misses it and I run out. Third rack, I make 2 balls and no shot on the 2 (the one is down). I play safe, hit it perfect and hide the cue tight. Three fouls later I am up 3-0 with two wins coming from three fouls where I turned down the run in favor of the third foul. Fourth rack is ugly, he misses an easy shot and leaves me partially safe. I get the hit, but leave him a shot. He misses again (not a tough shot) but I fail to get out hanging the 9 in the corner.

When all is said and done, Ronnie wins 9-6, BUT it was an uphill struggle for him to get back in stroke after those two early 3-fouls. I was up 5-2 at one point based almost entirely on the strength of the psychological screwing from those two games. It took an easy 3-9 combo to give him a boost of confidence and get him back in the game.

3 fouling someone is definitely about confidence, but it's your opponent's confidence as much as it is yours. Playing against Vickery, got him once on three foul, it took him a couple of games to get his head back. He's been playing every day (for how many years now?) and it STILL had him muttering to himself for several racks. Worth thinking about.

Jay M

John in NH
07-29-2002, 06:19 PM
Hi Lester,

The 3 foul rule is very difficult to pull off against a good player, I have used it only sparingly, one example is when the opponent breaks and miscues without hitting the one, I will usually play a safety and go for the 3 fouls in that case, normally it is easier to run out than go for 3 fouls.

Regards,

John