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Casey
11-01-2007, 08:17 PM
OK so I've been checking out every table manufacturer trying to find the best table for the best price. I thought I was close to deciding, then I came across this.

I haven't been able to find the catch, KGI billiards. There tables have all the right specs for a fraction of the cost.

100% Solid hardwood (maple or Oak), no veneer, MDF, etc.
1" oversized slate w/ solid wood backing
6 " solid wood rail, k-66 gum-rubber, cloth backed cushions
4.5" h.wood center beam
Hand carved h.wood legs
cabinet ships complete not in pieces w/ brackets
m.o.p. diamond inlays
even mortise and tendon joints

I just don't get it, sounds like a corvette for the price of a Geo
tables are $1499-1799 free shipping + accessories

Table is made in China but so is Brunswick.
I read the post on watching out for the "pitfalls" with the advertising w/ mfg's saying 100% when they mean plywood etc. but they spell it all out.
Now I guess they could be lying about what the solid wood really is but seems you could sue over that.


I know if something sounds to good to be true it probably isn't BUT there are ZERO red flags when reading about their tables other than they don't charge enough.

I've got *ALOT* more research before I trust them enough to buy their table but has anyone heard of them???

Is this company a trap that alot of "Rookies" fall into?
Anyone have on these tables?
Their parent company is Kingston Global and it looks like they also sell their tables under the name United Billiards although I think through a retailer/distributor not "direct" like they do under the KGI name

I know you all are probably sick of me asking "newbie" questions and if so I can go ask them elsewhere...BUT..
If this is truely a quality table (atleast for the price, I'm not expecting Olhausen quality ecspecially w/ service) then it could be the answer alot of people on a budget are looking for (like me)
I am going to be researching them, if anyone else cares to do the same please let me know what you come up with...

Casey
11-01-2007, 08:32 PM
I forgot to put the website ...

www.kgibilliards.com (http://www.kgibilliards.com)

check out their construction page maybe I'm a sucker but it sure doesn't sound like a table that can be made cheaply, stamped out without caring.

1Time
11-01-2007, 09:20 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Casey:</font><hr> I forgot to put the website ...

www.kgibilliards.com (http://www.kgibilliards.com)

check out their construction page maybe I'm a sucker but it sure doesn't sound like a table that can be made cheaply, stamped out without caring. <hr /></blockquote>
A good thing about that site is they post testimonials that include pictures. I knew nothing about them or their tables before looking at their site today. I wouldn't put too much stock in what the testimonials say because most are just so happy to get a new table and would not dare contribute to their buyer's remorse by bad mouthing it. However, IF I wanted one of their tables, I would feel confident buying from them because they post testimonials and provide pictures of the installed tables.

However, I would not buy from them for a few reasons:

1. I would want a 9' table and they don't sell any. But if choosing between a 7' and 8', I would get a 7' table. I grew up playing on an 8' table only to later find 7' and 9' tables in pool halls and bars.

2. I would not buy one of their tables without first playing on one. Some tables play very differently, and this due to a variety of factors. I often find I much prefer one kind of table over another. And so the best way to choose a table is to play on one first, whether a demo, someone else's, or the actual table you're buying. And of course compare how it plays to other tables.

3. Click on their "Construction" tab and take a look at the corner pocket. I question its design and measurements. Why provide all this information about the construction of their pool tables, but not provide information about the corner and side pockets? A good versus a crappy pocket can make a world of difference in one's enjoyment and performance. Just another reason to shoot on the table before buying it.

Casey
11-01-2007, 10:01 PM
1Time, Thanks for giving me your input. This is the type of comments I am looking for.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote 1Time:</font><hr> However, IF I wanted one of their tables, I would feel confident buying from them because they post testimonials and provide pictures of the installed tables. <hr /></blockquote>

One of the first few people on the list actually live in a town about 45 min away and they must actually exist. I did a phone # search for that name in that town and got a valid search result. Gee, I wonder what they would think if I called them and asked about the table?!? /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote 1Time:</font><hr> However, I would not buy from them for a few reasons: <hr /></blockquote>

1. I'm looking for a 8' but it is a little weird they don't offer a 9' model. There is a pool hall close to me that has all 8'-ers
2. Problem is I'm getting this table so I can learn, right now I'm not sure I have enough experience on a good table to know. Most tables I've played on in the last 10 years have been crap tables in bars.

3. Besides measurement what questions should I ask about the pockets? I read hand-tooled cordovan leather wrapped around a die-cast iron core.
I know many people on here would want "pro" size pocket openings but at my skill level right now I'm looking for standard BCA size.

1Time
11-02-2007, 03:09 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Casey:</font><hr> 1Time, Thanks for giving me your input. This is the type of comments I am looking for. <hr /></blockquote>
You're welcome.
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Casey:</font><hr> Gee, I wonder what they would think if I called them and asked about the table?!? /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif<hr /></blockquote>
You're not going to find out anything you need to know by calling, anyway. You'd have to play on it and compare how it plays to other tables, or have someone experienced you trust to do it for you. Mostly I'm referring to how well the pockets take the balls at different speeds. A proud owner of a new table who posted nothing negative on the site won't tell you this.
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Casey:</font><hr> 1. I'm looking for a 8' but it is a little weird they don't offer a 9' model. There is a pool hall close to me that has all 8'-ers<hr /></blockquote>
If you don't expect to be competing on 7' or 9' tables, and you want an 8', then there you go.
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Casey:</font><hr> 2. Problem is I'm getting this table so I can learn, right now I'm not sure I have enough experience on a good table to know. Most tables I've played on in the last 10 years have been crap tables in bars.<hr /></blockquote>
My guess is a lot of those crap bar boxes had pockets that took the balls well. Unfortunately, this is not as common with relatively inexpensive non-coin operated tables.

The first couple of problems, if present, that will be noticed with a new table are 1) the baskets aren't deep enough and 2) the pockets don't take the balls well. Lots of people buy new tables who don't know how to play well and don't know how to check for this. I don't recommend taking a chance on getting a table you later wished did not have these problems.
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Casey:</font><hr>3. Besides measurement what questions should I ask about the pockets? I read hand-tooled cordovan leather wrapped around a die-cast iron core.
I know many people on here would want "pro" size pocket openings but at my skill level right now I'm looking for standard BCA size. <hr /></blockquote>
Ask them how many balls fit into a corner pocket when rolled into it before the top ball reaches the level of the playing surface. This will give you an idea of the working capacity of the baskets.

You can't determine what you need to know about how well the pockets take the balls by calling them. Someone would have to shoot on it and compare how well it pockets balls to other tables. For family fun, the bigger the pockets the better, and you don't want pockets cut so the balls can sit in the jaws of the pockets. I'm guessing the corner pockets are 4.5" and the sides are 5", which is okay for an 8' table. Smaller would not be okay for you. However, regardless of pocket size, I don't recommend buying a pool table without determining how well the pockets take the balls. It just makes too much of a difference in one's enjoyment and performance to get this wrong. There will be some who read this and think, "I wish I had known this before I bought my pool table."

Ralph_Kramden
11-02-2007, 05:48 AM
I would buy the largest table that would fit in the room without having to use a short stick. I would prefer a 9 foot if I had the room size. IMO you sould buy an 8 foot table over a 7 footer if you decided to go with the table you're looking at.

Willie Mosconi played straight pool on large tables but his record of 526 successive balls was done on an 8 footer. I think a 7 foot table would be too tight to play straight pool.

DeadCrab
11-02-2007, 07:02 AM
For $1600 they park the table in your garage or on your porch.

It is going to cost another $200-400 to get a mechanic to come and level the slates and install cloth.

Based on their return policy, once that first cloth staple hits the wood, it is probably not returnable. Once the mechanic goes home, you'll have to pay to get them back out again.

This had better be a good table, because the risk level is high relative to buying from a local dealer, IMO.

Paul_Mon
11-02-2007, 07:48 AM
Casey,

These KGI tables may or may not play well. Even if they do you are probably not getting a decent cloth, if they refer to it as felt it’s more than likely something with a nap. Casual players wouldn’t even notice but better players prefer something without a nap i.e. Granito, Simonis or Championship.
IMO, it is a lot easier and less expensive to buy a good quality used table. Most of the time you’ll have the opportunity to actually play on the table and the accessories needed will be included. I don’t need a table but routinely view the local ads to get an idea of what people are asking for tables. I also call on some of them asking about cues, racks, etc.

Having a home table (7’, 8’ or 9’) is better than having no table at all. I prefer playing on 9’ table and own a 9’ GCIII. It fits in my basement without obstruction. If the largest table I could fit was a 7 footer I would’ve bought a quality 7 footer. The point being is that you want to play with good equipment, table, cloth and balls.

Check out that nearby owner of the KGI table and find out what he spent above the cost of the table. It would be interesting to hear what they’ve got to say. Let us know.

Regards…………..Paul

Snapshot9
11-02-2007, 10:29 AM
Actually, it doesn't sound too bad at all. And Championship cloth comes with it, but I would make sure that is Mercury Ultra or above cloth, not any lower grades.

Actually I think an 8 footer with tight pockets is harder to play on than a 7 or 9 footer because 8 footers have a different cut on the pockets. If you order one, verify the depth of the pockets first, because they look a little shallow to me. If I was to order one I would probably go with the Breckinridge because I like thicker legs on tables.
And don't get some off color cloth. The best colors are tournament green, tournament blue, then tan.

I agree with the 4.5" corner pockets and 5" side pockets.
Make sure your mechanic is a pro.

Now, it still would be a hard decision between this and a used Gold Crown, but if you are set on an 8 footer, I would seriously consider it, but be careful throughout the process.

BigRigTom
11-02-2007, 10:31 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Paul_Mon:</font><hr> Casey,

These KGI tables may or may not play well. Even if they do you are probably not getting a decent cloth, if they refer to it as felt it’s more than likely something with a nap. Casual players wouldn’t even notice but better players prefer something without a nap i.e. Granito, Simonis or Championship.
IMO, it is a lot easier and less expensive to buy a good quality used table. Most of the time you’ll have the opportunity to actually play on the table and the accessories needed will be included. I don’t need a table but routinely view the local ads to get an idea of what people are asking for tables. I also call on some of them asking about cues, racks, etc.

Having a home table (7’, 8’ or 9’) is better than having no table at all. I prefer playing on 9’ table and own a 9’ GCIII. It fits in my basement without obstruction. If the largest table I could fit was a 7 footer I would’ve bought a quality 7 footer. The point being is that you want to play with good equipment, table, cloth and balls.

Check out that nearby owner of the KGI table and find out what he spent above the cost of the table. It would be interesting to hear what they’ve got to say. Let us know.

Regards…………..Paul

<hr /></blockquote>

Casey,
This is good advise.
I know from experience.

I've never heard of the table you are looking at but I considered spending $3000 plus for an Olhausen new from a local dealer and when I saw what used tables were selling for I went off the deep end in the other direction thereby making all the mistakes I could make.
Long story short....I bought a used no name table because it "looked nice" and "my wife liked it!"
These are NOT good reasons to buy a particular table.
After playing on that piece of crap for a little over a year I ran across a used 1974 Brunswick Pro 8', bought it for $250 and MAN,WHAT A DEAL! &amp; WHAT A DIFFERENCE!
I sold the piece of crap table and got enough for it to pay for the Brunswick then I replaced the cloth with Simonis 860, my friend &amp; I recoverd the table ourselves and thanks to his perfectionism we did a great job on that.
I now have a GREAT table, it plays like a Gold Crown III.
Bottom line....don't waste you money and time on those cheap imitations....if you are on a budget, look for a good used Brunswick, Olhausen, Gandy, or Diamond table.
You maybe pleasantly surprised how much table you can get for $2000. I was!

1Time
11-02-2007, 10:35 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Paul_Mon:</font><hr> Even if they do you are probably not getting a decent cloth, if they refer to it as felt it’s more than likely something with a nap. Casual players wouldn’t even notice but better players prefer something without a nap i.e. Granito, Simonis or Championship.
<hr /></blockquote>

The site says their tables use "Felt: America's #1 Selling Billiard Fabric--Championship". My guess is this is fabric and not felt, but I definitely would make sure it's not felt. Their use of the word felt is a little suspicious.

bradb
11-02-2007, 02:48 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Casey:</font><hr>
Table is made in China but so is Brunswick.
I read the post on watching out for the "pitfalls" with the advertising w/ mfg's saying 100% when they mean plywood etc. but they spell it all out.
Now I guess they could be lying about what the solid wood really is but seems you could sue over that.


I know if something sounds to good to be true it probably isn't BUT there are ZERO red flags when reading about their tables other than they don't charge enough.

. <hr /></blockquote>

Brunswick used to sell chinese tables (they did not put the Brunswick name on them.) They no longer sell this line (in Canada anyway) because they just had too many problems with them and it hurt their image as a quality table maker.

I would not touch any asian import tables, the wood can warp or even shrink and thats a disaster for a solid bed to lay the slate on. The rails are not the best and the cloth is cheap. They say 2 day delivery, thats odd, how can they send something that heavy, that fast anywhere?

I don't know, best to really research this out, ask around, I think you were right in your first statement... if its too good to be true!.....

Casey
11-02-2007, 03:18 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bradb:</font><hr>
Brunswick used to sell chinese tables (they did not put the Brunswick name on them.) They no longer sell this line (in Canada anyway) because they just had too many problems with them and it hurt their image as a quality table maker. <hr /></blockquote>

As far as I know I think they are still made in China. I have even seen a box that a Brunswick leg came in that has the Brunswick name on it and also "made in China" on the box.

The cloth is Championship brand, which alot of manufacturers use. If I did get one of these tables I would upgrade to the "3030 tour edition" cloth from Championship, I think that is their top of the line speed cloth.
Site says shipped in 2 days not delivered in 2 days.
I'm not defending this company just trying to keep the facts straight.

Thank you to the people who have posted replies, I haven't responded to some of the other ones because I am still trying to do research on this manufacturer and its tables. I'm still quite a way from buying one. It sure would be nice to have a sort of "consumer reports" site on pool tables.
Which ever company and table I do end up going with I plan on trying to write and post a complete review of it after getting people who know more than me to play on it, getting feedback from the installer, etc., etc. Unlike most people with a new pool table I would welcome criticism on how it plays. I would like to end up helping other people find a good table thats priced well or not make the same mistake I do if it ends up being not so good.

BTW: has anyone heard of Chinese slate not being 100% slate but having quartz in it, or is this BS?

Casey
11-02-2007, 04:36 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote 1Time:</font><hr>
Ask them how many balls fit into a corner pocket when rolled into it before the top ball reaches the level of the playing surface. This will give you an idea of the working capacity of the baskets... <hr /></blockquote>
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote 1Time:</font><hr> ...I'm guessing the corner pockets are 4.5" and the sides are 5", which is okay for an 8' table. Smaller would not be okay for you. <hr /></blockquote>

They have a instant chat feature on their site which I used to get these answers. I chatted with someone named Kat Luna who told me the pockets will hold about 7-10 balls.
When I asked about the pocket size she first gave me the diameter of the actual leather pocket, which was 3.5-4". After much confusion she remeasured and the pockets are 4.5" for the corners and 5.5" for the sides.

From looking at the close-ups of some of their models the tables have a plate that says United Billiards not KGI.
KGI must just be the name they sell them under directly, like Beringer/Mr. Billiards

pooltchr
11-02-2007, 05:02 PM
I would check with a good table mechanic before ordering the table. Many of the mechanics I know will not even attempt to set up an imported table, or if they do, they charge more. According to some of them, they run into problems with parts not fitting properly, or holes and bolts not lining up right. Also, what are your options if you get the table and some parts are missing or damaged? It seems like a gamble to me. A used Olhausen or Brunswick seems like a better option.
JMHO
Steve

Casey
11-02-2007, 05:29 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> I would check with a good table mechanic before ordering the table. Many of the mechanics I know will not even attempt to set up an imported table, or if they do, they charge more. According to some of them, they run into problems with parts not fitting properly, or holes and bolts not lining up right. Also, what are your options if you get the table and some parts are missing or damaged? It seems like a gamble to me. A used Olhausen or Brunswick seems like a better option.
JMHO
Steve <hr /></blockquote>

Well I'm trying to make sure that just because its made in China its not a "Chinese table".
As far a missing/damaged parts the website says they will send replacements right away and the testimonials(with names,cities, and actual pictures) concur with that.
The cabinet comes already assembled, crated.

As far as a used Olhausen or Brunswick; I am just as weary of buying that as I am one of these. My fears are, you don't know how they treated it, how old it actually is, if the cushions will need replaced soon, and by the time you pay to have it moved and re-clothed it still costs more.

I am trying to find a GOOD less costly new table and then be able to let others know about it. I'm hoping to be able to do this. Otherwise I will just be able to say DON'T buy the one I did /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

1Time
11-02-2007, 06:10 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Casey:</font><hr> I chatted with someone named Kat Luna who told me the pockets will hold about 7-10 balls. <hr /></blockquote>
This means she did not count them, which indicates poor customer service. And so I'm guessing the working capacity of a basket on their tables to be 5, an acceptable minimum. I would much prefer a minimum working capacity of 7. I sent a message to them through their chat system last night asking about ball capacity, but have yet to receive a reply.
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Casey:</font><hr>After much confusion she remeasured and the pockets are 4.5" for the corners and 5.5" for the sides.<hr /></blockquote>
I consider 4.5" corners to be a minimum width for family use, and "tight" as compared to many tables. However, 5.5" side pockets are definitely family size "wide" or "loose". My guess is a table with wider side pockets would be hard to find. The difference in size between the corners and side pockets should be close to 1/2", and I wouldn't want the difference to be more than 1/2". And so, the sides on these tables are disproportionately wider than the corner pockets. Of course it is possible the side pocket width was measured wrong. However, if accurate, I would not buy one of their tables for this reason alone. A 1" difference in pocket size is just wrong in my book.

bradb
11-02-2007, 07:06 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote 1Time:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Casey:</font><hr> I chatted with someone named Kat Luna who told me the pockets will hold about 7-10 balls. <hr /></blockquote>
This means she did not count them, which indicates poor customer service. And so I'm guessing the working capacity of a basket on their tables to be 5, an acceptable minimum. I would much prefer a minimum working capacity of 7. I sent a message to them through their chat system last night asking about ball capacity, but have yet to receive a reply.
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Casey:</font><hr>After much confusion she remeasured and the pockets are 4.5" for the corners and 5.5" for the sides.<hr /></blockquote>
I consider 4.5" corners to be a minimum width for family use, and "tight" as compared to many tables. However, 5.5" side pockets are definitely family size "wide" or "loose". My guess is a table with wider side pockets would be hard to find. The difference in size between the corners and side pockets should be close to 1/2", and I wouldn't want the difference to be more than 1/2". And so, the sides on these tables are disproportionately wider than the corner pockets. Of course it is possible the side pocket width was measured wrong. However, if accurate, I would not buy one of their tables for this reason alone. A 1" difference in pocket size is just wrong in my book. <hr /></blockquote>

It depends where the pockets were measured. A standard corner pocket on a 9' table is 4" at the back and 5" at the mouth. (A tight table is 4-1/2" at the mouth) The 5-1/2" side is also standard. But it depends a lot on how the pocket is cut. Some have the opening further back from the rails.

I went through all this agonizing myself on Asian tables. Some of the tables are made in China but are assembled in the states so its hard to tell the real US made tables from the inferior asian imports. One thing is for sure, the wood is the problem. I heard this from every person in the industry I talked to. There is a reason most pool halls and tournaments go with name brands.

All I can say is I would check this out thoroughly, once the table is in your home you're stuck with it. -brad

Casey
11-02-2007, 07:12 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote 1Time:</font><hr>
This means she did not count them, which indicates poor customer service....
.... A 1" difference in pocket size is just wrong in my book. <hr /></blockquote>

When she told me the pocket size the first time she was actually measuring a pocket not on a table, so its possible that is what she did to see how many balls would fit. Even though that would be outright dumb.
And the difference in pocket sizes didn't sound right to me either, maybe she didn't hold the tape measure at an angle for the corner pocket. Its hard to believe she has never heard these questions before but who knows.
In their testimonials I found another person close-by this time someone in my actual hometown, I am thinking about asking to actually look at it if they wouldn't mind.

1Time
11-02-2007, 07:52 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Casey:</font><hr> I am thinking about asking to actually look at it if they wouldn't mind. <hr /></blockquote>

I would insist on being helped by someone else and getting their claims in writing.

Wally_in_Cincy
11-03-2007, 09:11 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Casey:</font><hr> As far as a used Olhausen or Brunswick; I am just as weary of buying that as I am one of these. My fears are, you don't know how they treated it, how old it actually is, if the cushions will need replaced soon, and by the time you pay to have it moved and re-clothed it still costs more.

I am trying to find a GOOD less costly new table and then be able to let others know about it. I'm hoping to be able to do this. Otherwise I will just be able to say DON'T buy the one I did /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Suit yourself mate, but I would listen to the advice you got from pooltchr and Paul Mon.

It's not that difficult to evaluate a used table and if you don't feel comfortable seek out a respected local mechanic and let him inspect it.

cueball1950
11-03-2007, 01:48 PM
can i ask where you are located...... there are alot of good tables going up for sale all over the country and i would stick with an american made table. I play on gold crown 1's (i believe) at my local pool hall that were installed in 1963 and still play great because the owner takes great care of them....................mike

1Time
11-03-2007, 02:15 PM
I agree with those suggesting a used table. It's probably not that hard to find a pretty good deal on one. An owner looses interest in playing pool or wants to remodel or move. And, you can be sure it plays well for you before buying, unlike what likely can be done by ordering new from a wholesaler on the net. Buy one in good condition, put new cloth on it, and it'll look as good as new.

Casey
11-04-2007, 03:14 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cueball1950:</font><hr> can i ask where you are located...... there are alot of good tables going up for sale all over the country and i would stick with an american made table. <hr /></blockquote>

I live in Maryland. Yeah, I've been checking craigslist but most people are selling old no-name tables and it seems most people who have a good table know what they have and want well over a thousand for it. I do understand what you all have been telling me though......

Wally_in_Cincy
11-04-2007, 07:52 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Casey:</font><hr> I've been checking craigslist but most people are selling old no-name tables and it seems most people who have a good table know what they have and want well over a thousand for it. <hr /></blockquote>

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Casey:</font><hr> I just don't get it, sounds like a corvette for the price of a Geo
tables are $1499-1799 free shipping + accessories

<hr /></blockquote>

Hmmm

A skeptic who has seen many internet ploys might surmise you are shilling for the Chinese table manufacturer in your original post.

1499-1799 for an unknown Chinese quantity vs. "over a thousand" for a known quantity.

Let's think about this just for a moment.

It's not for me to pass judgement. Let's see what your future posts hold.

If you disappear into the vast wasteland of drive-by posters I suppose we wil know the answer.

BigRigTom
11-05-2007, 09:04 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Casey:</font><hr> I've been checking craigslist but most people are selling old no-name tables and it seems most people who have a good table know what they have and want well over a thousand for it. <hr /></blockquote>

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Casey:</font><hr> I just don't get it, sounds like a corvette for the price of a Geo
tables are $1499-1799 free shipping + accessories

<hr /></blockquote>

Hmmm

A skeptic who has seen many internet ploys might surmise you are shilling for the Chinese table manufacturer in your original post.

1499-1799 for an unknown Chinese quantity vs. "over a thousand" for a known quantity.

Let's think about this just for a moment.

It's not for me to pass judgement. Let's see what your future posts hold.

If you disappear into the vast wasteland of drive-by posters I suppose we wil know the answer. <hr /></blockquote>


Sounds like Wally has this poster pegged.
It will be interesting to see where this thread goes now.

bradb
11-05-2007, 10:41 AM
<hr /></blockquote> (Quote Big Rig Tom) Sounds like Wally has this poster pegged.
It will be interesting to see where this thread goes now. <hr /></blockquote>

Egads... me thinks we have been conned into the old shell game. Good eye Wally!!!

-brad

okinawa77
11-05-2007, 05:15 PM
Casey,

I recently bought an 8' Olhausen table that was manufactured in Asia. The price was $1399 for the table only. Because this is an Olhausen table that was installed/set up by Olhausen, if there are any problems, they guarantee their workmanship, and will rework the table if there are any problems.

In your case, I would not buy from KGI if they will not guarantee the installation/set up of the table.

P.S. I upgraded the cloth to Simonis, but the pockets only hold 3 balls at a time. I should have upgraded the pockets to deep pockets.

You will need at least 5 feet (60 inches) of distance from each side of the table to the walls of your room....in order to use a normal sized cue. You need to account for the cue ball being frozen to a rail.

Fran Crimi
11-05-2007, 07:23 PM
This could even be a scam. The website says table delivered in 2 days. That sounds awfully strange to me.

Fran

1Time
11-06-2007, 01:06 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr> This could even be a scam. The website says table delivered in 2 days. That sounds awfully strange to me.

Fran <hr /></blockquote>

That's not what it says. They will process the order in 1 or 2 days. Shipping time then usually takes less than 10 days for the continental U.S., but could take 4 to 6 weeks if there's a problem.

It's not a scam. Just have them provide proof of legitimacy and check it out. Done. I just don't think their tables are up to par.

Fran Crimi
11-06-2007, 02:54 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote 1Time:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr> This could even be a scam. The website says table delivered in 2 days. That sounds awfully strange to me.

Fran <hr /></blockquote>

That's not what it says. They will process the order in 1 or 2 days. Shipping time then usually takes less than 10 days for the continental U.S., but could take 4 to 6 weeks if there's a problem.

It's not a scam. Just have them provide proof of legitimacy and check it out. Done. I just don't think their tables are up to par. <hr /></blockquote>


You're right. I worded it wrong. I was thinking shipping but wrote delivery. So does that mean if I send them a check, that they will process the order before the check clears?

Fran

1Time
11-06-2007, 03:08 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr>So does that mean if I send them a check, that they will process the order before the check clears?

Fran <hr /></blockquote>

No, that means they will process the order after you send me the check and I cash it.

Fran Crimi
11-06-2007, 08:57 AM
Where does it say that?

bradb
11-06-2007, 02:08 PM
Hey everybody... this whole thing is a scam!

We've been spammed, scammed, hoodwinked and telemarketed under a phoney post.


-brad

DeadCrab
11-06-2007, 02:29 PM
It isn't like it worked.

Every response was negative.

wolfdancer
11-06-2007, 02:56 PM
If it sounds too good to be true...it is. Most mechanics I know of won't work on a made in China table, and two guys that I know that were selling them...gave upand went out of business.
You can't go wrong with a used GCII or III

BigRigTom
11-06-2007, 03:08 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote 1Time:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr> This could even be a scam. The website says table delivered in 2 days. That sounds awfully strange to me.

Fran <hr /></blockquote>

That's not what it says. They will process the order in 1 or 2 days. Shipping time then usually takes less than 10 days for the continental U.S., but could take 4 to 6 weeks if there's a problem.

It's not a scam. Just have them provide proof of legitimacy and check it out. Done. I just don't think their tables are up to par. <hr /></blockquote>

There also may be customs charges involved but I would think that some of those customers who say they are happy should be able to clue one in on some of the fears.

That don't make it a good deal though.
I still would suggest anyone on a tight budget look at used tables in their price range.
That is where the GREAT deals are.
Craigslist is also a GREAT source for GREAT deals.
I know that from experience also.

Hope the is not a SCAM we have enough of those already.

1Time
11-06-2007, 03:15 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr> Where does it say that? <hr /></blockquote>

Why? Who said it does say that? Just make the check out to "1Time".

SPetty
11-06-2007, 03:38 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bradb:</font><hr>Hey everybody... this whole thing is a scam!

We've been spammed, scammed, hoodwinked and telemarketed under a phoney post.<hr /></blockquote>I don't think so. I think it was a legitimate question from a legitimate new table buyer.

Fran Crimi
11-06-2007, 04:00 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote 1Time:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr> Where does it say that? <hr /></blockquote>

Why? Who said it does say that? Just make the check out to "1Time". <hr /></blockquote>


/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif Good one.

bradb
11-06-2007, 06:11 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DeadCrab:</font><hr>
It isn't like it worked.

Every response was negative. <hr /></blockquote>

Thats the irony of the guys post...

Instead of drawing everybody over to his promo, he managed to highlight the downside of Chineses tables for all to read.

-brad

Casey
11-06-2007, 07:18 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr>
Hmmm

A skeptic who has seen many internet ploys might surmise you are shilling for the Chinese table manufacturer in your original post.

1499-1799 for an unknown Chinese quantity vs. "over a thousand" for a known quantity.

Let's think about this just for a moment.

It's not for me to pass judgement. Let's see what your future posts hold.

If you disappear into the vast wasteland of drive-by posters I suppose we wil know the answer. <hr /></blockquote>

I can honestly say I have no connection with them. I'm just a guy trying to figure out what table to buy. I have posted several posts doubting/unsure of their tables. *IF* I do happen to get one I even welcome people from this forum to come play on and look at the table to point out possible problems with it so other people will know about them. I knew my post might sound fishy thats why in replies I tried to make it clear that I was just trying decide on the quality of these tables for myself and anyone else interested.
I was just intrigued because out of all the "cheap" or cheaper tables I had been researching these were the only ones that seemed like worth taking a chance on. I thought maybe someone here would have seen one before.

Although, we could keep a tally of my posts if it would make you feel better! /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Casey
11-06-2007, 07:24 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bradb:</font><hr>
Egads... me thinks we have been conned into the old shell game. Good eye Wally!!!
-brad <hr /></blockquote>

Whatever...you all aren't going to hurt my feelings....go ahead and get all your anger out. Its best to let it out now, if you hold it back, it gets all pent-up and comes out on some newbie just trying to decide on a table....

Casey
11-06-2007, 07:36 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote okinawa77:</font><hr>
I recently bought an 8' Olhausen table that was manufactured in Asia. The price was $1399 for the table only.
In your case, I would not buy from KGI if they will not guarantee the installation/set up of the table.


You will need at least 5 feet (60 inches) of distance from each side of the table to the walls of your room....in order to use a normal sized cue. You need to account for the cue ball being frozen to a rail. <hr /></blockquote>

Where did you get a new 8' Olhausen for that price and what model was it? I wish I lived in CA then!!!
Champion Billiards is the local Olhausen dealer here the lowest priced one is the Americana and they want $2,600 that is delivered and installed but before any type of upgrade like speed-cloth.
My room is big enough for an 8'er but thanks for making sure I checked, I know alot of newbies get a rude awakening when they set up the table or play their first game on it.
As far as guarantee on set-up, anyone know if Champion Billiards guarantees their installs if they don't sell the table??

Casey
11-06-2007, 07:41 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bradb:</font><hr>


Hey everybody... this whole thing is a scam!

We've been spammed, scammed, hoodwinked and telemarketed under a phoney post.


-brad


<hr /></blockquote>
Brad, 1Time has been defending them just enough for people to get the facts right, are you claiming he's a spammer too?

Casey
11-06-2007, 07:51 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BigRigTom:</font><hr>
There also may be customs charges involved but I would think that some of those customers who say they are happy should be able to clue one in on some of the fears.
<hr /></blockquote>
Customs charges?!?! I buy condoms made in Malaysia and don't pay extra customs charges, well ok I don't know where they are made but either way I wouldn't have to pay customs.

These tables are made in China not sold/shipped in China. Aren't Brunswick tables made in China now? I've had two different sales rep's tell me that &amp; seen a Brunswick table leg box that said "Made in China" on it.

Casey
11-06-2007, 07:55 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bradb:</font><hr>
Thats the irony of the guys post...

Instead of drawing everybody over to his promo, he managed to highlight the downside of Chineses tables for all to read.
<hr /></blockquote>

That sound you hear is me putting a bullet in my head, hope you guys are happy /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif
BTW: replies to that statement not needed....

Wally_in_Cincy
11-06-2007, 08:24 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SPetty:</font><hr> I don't think so. I think it was a legitimate question from a legitimate new table buyer. <hr /></blockquote>

SPetty,

After reading his first few posts I have to take back my spamming accusation. I think he was looking for info, not spamming. I was just suspicious because he was willing to pay 1500 for a new "onknown" quantity vs. 1000+ for a used "known" quantity.

I stand by my opriginal post, he should look for a good used American table.

BTW the womderful tables at Snookers in cincy that went out of business sold for 300-500 according to to my friend BHQ.

bradb
11-07-2007, 11:05 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Casey:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote bradb:</font><hr>
Thats the irony of the guys post...

Instead of drawing everybody over to his promo, he managed to highlight the downside of Chineses tables for all to read.
<hr /></blockquote>

That sound you hear is me putting a bullet in my head, hope you guys are happy /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif
BTW: replies to that statement not needed.... <hr /></blockquote>

OK.... Aplogies if what you say is true. No one is mad only a little suspicious because as you went along it became clear that you knew a whole lot more than you first let on. Also instead of listening to all the posts offering advise you seemed to be arguing the case for the promo.

As far as I know (and I had checked around with Brunswick here in Canada) Brunswick does not make a table in China and then put the Brunswick name on it. The chineses tables carry the name Legend and other brands. The dealers should tell you which tables on their floor are Chinese made, mine did and I optioned not to buy it after I checked it out.

In a nut shell I learned that the UNDERBED is the most important part of a table. To save money cheap tables use ELL brackets instead of bolting the beams to the frame. These fixtures over time will fail... after all a 1" slate table weighs a HALF TON! Also as mentioned the asian wood is not as strong in its grain as oak or teak or even maple. It will crack and warp. That means joints will pull apart and the bed will warp, then you will have a hell of a time keeping it level... then one day you will walk in and there will be a deep crack down one of those fancy legs.

The purpose of a good table is too last a life time of use not look good for a year then fall apart.

Anyway thats what the pros told me and it certainly scared me so I'm passing it along for here. I am no expert.... only another pool player. I'm sure there is much more experienced advise out there than me so just add my opinion to the negative vote.

There are a lot of scam posts on here so everyone is wary when things don't seem right. so once again sorry for any accusations.

Now put away that gun.... no reason for that. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif

-brad

Casey
11-07-2007, 12:47 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bradb:</font><hr> ...only a little suspicious because as you went along it became clear that you knew a whole lot more than you first let on. Also instead of listening to all the posts offering advise you seemed to be arguing the case for the promo. <hr /></blockquote>

The only things I know about pool tables is what I've learned in the past two months. However, that IS DRASTICALLY more than what I knew before that time. I have been doing MUCH research, including reading posts on this site like THIS POST THAT I HIGHLY RECOMMEND TO ANYONE WHO LIKE ME IS LOOKING FOR A TABLE AND NEW TO BILLIARDS (http://www.billiardsdigest.com/ccboard/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Board=ccb&amp;Number=240283&amp;Forum=cc b&amp;Words=mortise&amp;Match=Entire%20Phrase&amp;Searchpage=0 &amp;Limit=25&amp;Old=allposts&amp;Main=239840&amp;Search=true#Pos t240283)

Also, I truly was not trying to argue FOR those tables, its just 1. people were getting the facts mixed up and 2. People seemed SOO against any table not made in the USA I was questioning whether people here are soo biased that they can't make an honest judgment on them. I know that most crappy tables come from china BUT labor is cheaper there so it is possible that a company based here (which they are) could want to make quality tables there and ship them back to sell. I'm just trying to figure out their quality. That is why I listed all that stuff like they say 100% Oak and Maple are used not mystery Asian wood and they talk about brackets but also say they use mortise and tendon joints. I DO REALIZE THAT 95% OF POOL TABLES THAT COME OUT OF CHINA ARE LESSER QUALITY, but does that mean its impossible for good tables to be made there? I doubt it and thats why I came here to ask about them. Pretty much everything that buying guide listed to look for to make sure you get a good table and not a "crap China table" KGI says their tables incorporate. Thats confusing to me and I think a lot of you saw "China", and decided on them without even looking at their website or anything. No offense but that doesn't really help me, it just makes me more confused about whether or not *THESE* tables are any good.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bradb:</font><hr>
As far as I know (and I had checked around with Brunswick here in Canada) Brunswick does not make a table in China and then put the Brunswick name on it. <hr /></blockquote>

I am going to try to figure this out once and for all today. If Brunswick doesn't make anything in China then I have been lied to by several people. Although salespeople are like presidents so who knows....


<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bradb:</font><hr>
In a nut shell I learned that the UNDERBED is the most important part of a table. To save money cheap tables use ELL brackets... Also as mentioned the asian wood is not as strong in its grain as oak or teak or even maple.... <hr /></blockquote>
Again this is why I listed those things to show they *SAY* they don't do these things.....just trying to figure it out...

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bradb:</font><hr>
Anyway thats what the pros told me and it certainly scared me so I'm passing it along for here. <hr /></blockquote>
And people here posted about mechanics not wanting to work on a Chinese table BUT that is most likely tables made with asian wood w/ MDF &amp; brackets &amp; etc. &amp; etc... I'm not trying to confince people to buy junk tables. I'm trying to figure out how good these tables are. Some testimonials said their mechanic was impressed with the table when it was installed. I checked the name and city on www.whitepages.com (http://www.whitepages.com) or yahoo and they are real people and most of them show pictures. My point was they sound legit, thats why I came here to see what other people thought. It wasn't just the cheapest table I could find and then ask "what do you think" I tried to do as much research as I could before asking.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bradb:</font><hr>
There are a lot of scam posts on here so everyone is wary when things don't seem right. so once again sorry for any accusations.<hr /></blockquote>
Understood....

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bradb:</font><hr>
Now put away that gun.... no reason for that. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif
<hr /></blockquote>
Ok, I'll put it away..........for now /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

bradb
11-07-2007, 02:12 PM
Casey, here's where i'm coming from .....

In reply to your last post I can offer this in answer to your comments which I in turn considered in buying my "Canada made" table.

The tables made here and the US are old technology and that is good, because its based on well over a hundred years of playing pool here.

For instance you know you are getting the best table possible, if you buy a Gold Crown!.... Your're playing on the same table Greenleaf, Willy Hoppe and Misconni played on. If you could find theses table today (and I'm sure they are still around) I'll bet they play as well as the day they were bought. Thats class. Thats quality. Thats what playing pool is all about, playing on the tables the game was meant to be played on.

Now we all can't afford a Gold Crown but we can come close with the name brands, and there are many out there still making good tables the same way they have made them for most of this century.

Maybe there are some Asian brands that have met our specifications, but for me, I did'nt want to take that chance. Why agonize over a 25% cost difference when you know for certain that one side of the coin is the safe way?

I'm very happy with my table, I know it will still be around when I croak. My wife will probably then turn it into a potting table for her plants, but that sucker will do the job! brad

/ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Wally_in_Cincy
11-07-2007, 03:25 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bradb:</font><hr>


The tables made here and the US are old technology and that is good, because its based on well over a hundred years of playing pool here.

For instance you know you are getting the best table possible, if you buy a Gold Crown!.... Your're playing on the same table Greenleaf, Willy Hoppe and Misconni played on. If you could find theses table today (and I'm sure they are still around) I'll bet they play as well as the day they were bought. <hr /></blockquote>

My 8-foot Brunswick Wellington is 102 years old by all accounts and plays very well /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Casey
11-07-2007, 03:49 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr>
My 8-foot Brunswick Wellington is 102 years old by all accounts and plays very well /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Now on the other hand I would love to have a great Antique like that. BradB said 25% difference in price, but its 25% difference with new vs. used. Plus the table is going in my Dining room (who needs to eat anyway) so even though a Gold Crown is a wonderful table, its not the best for a dining room. If it was going in the basement I would have bought a $600 Brunswick thats 15 years old or so and that would be that. I'm still looking for a good name used table also but it harder when you also want it to look like a nice piece of furniture, it doesn't seem like the name brands have been making them like that for very many years.
There was a 1.5 yr old coin op 7'er I seriously considered (even though I want an 8'er) because it literally looks like not a single game has been played on it and they only want $700, it could easily be sold later for double that!

bradb
11-07-2007, 05:05 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> . My 8-foot Brunswick Wellington is 102 years old by all accounts and plays very well /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif <hr /></blockquote>

That table would be a pleasure to play on!

For Casey and others, if you want a used table, look around till you find a good one. Get a U-haul trailer or a pickup, a strong friend and go and get it yourself. Its easy to break a table down and even set it back up. Its just for the cloth and rail installation where you need to bring in a pro. If the used table you find has poor cloth, you can pre-order it direct and have the guy install when hes over. (be sure and replace the rail cloth if it does'nt match)

Most people who are selling a table just want to get rid of it so you can drive a bargain. Also you can try it out befor you buy. Once you know the things to look for you might find a real treasure. -brad

BigRigTom
11-07-2007, 05:23 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bradb:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> . My 8-foot Brunswick Wellington is 102 years old by all accounts and plays very well /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif <hr /></blockquote>

That table would be a pleasure to play on!

For Casey and others, if you want a used table, look around till you find a good one. Get a U-haul trailer or a pickup, a strong friend and go and get it yourself. Its easy to break a table down and even set it back up. Its just for the cloth and rail installation where you need to bring in a pro. If the used table you find has poor cloth, you can pre-order it direct and have the guy install when hes over.

Most people who are selling a table just want to get rid of it so you can drive a bargain. Also you can try it out befor you buy. Once you know the things to look for you might find a real treasure. -brad<hr /></blockquote>


Again Casey your are getting GOOD ADVISE HERE!
My 1974 Brunswick plays like a Gold Crown III (except it is a Pro 8' size).
Like I said before...I paid $250 for it then spent a little more on the cloth and my friend and I redid the cloth and rails.

I am a little confused by your last post again however.
You say it is important to have a nice piece of furniture for your dinning room but you considered a 7' coin op table because it looked "new" for $700?!?!?!?

Which is it?

Do you want nice furniture and cost is secondary or is it important to get a "NEW" looking table on the cheap?

You may get it both ways if you look long enough but it will be a tough and maybe long search.
http://BigRigToys.com/lib/bigrigtoystore/GarageFloor5.jpg

Casey
11-07-2007, 08:46 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BigRigTom:</font><hr>
I am a little confused by your last post again however.
You say it is important to have a nice piece of furniture for your dinning room but you considered a 7' coin op table because it looked "new" for $700?!?!?!?

Which is it?

Do you want nice furniture and cost is secondary or is it important to get a "NEW" looking table on the cheap?

You may get it both ways if you look long enough but it will be a tough and maybe long search.
[\quote]
well the only reason I considered it was the fact it was in brand spanking new condition and would give me a table to play on while I searched for how ever many months to find the best deal on another one. Then it could easily be sold for double what I paid for it. Plus as far as bar tables go it was the nicest looking one I've ever seen, there is no way over 5-6 games were played on it if that.
Is it that hard to see why I was looking a good lower cost new table. Great deals on great used tables don't come by all that often. As I really don't want to wait any longer than I have to it seemed like a good idea....

Qtec
11-08-2007, 11:21 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I can honestly say I have no connection with them. <hr /></blockquote>

/ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Buy a Brunswick or a Diamond.

Q

bradb
11-08-2007, 01:54 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Casey:</font><hr> <hr /></blockquote>

Now on the other hand I would love to have a great Antique like that. BradB said 25% difference in price, but its 25% difference with new vs. used. Plus the table is going in my Dining room (who needs to eat anyway) so even though a Gold Crown is a wonderful table, its not the best for a dining room. If it was going in the basement I would have bought a $600 Brunswick thats 15 years old or so and that would be that. I'm still looking for a good name used table also but it harder when you also want it to look like a nice piece of furniture, it doesn't seem like the name brands have been making them like that for very many years.
<hr /></blockquote>

Casey, check this out!.... its probably to far away for you, but its just an example of what you can get if you dig around on the net.

Incidently- if you go to the Olhausen site they have a diclaimer that warns buyers on fake tables for sale on the net for sale under their name. I imagine all the top brands have that problem, its buyer beware. -brad

http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://www.buysellcommunity.com/uploads/103106/ww1/llxsmbwghntb.jpg&amp;imgrefurl=http://www.buysellcommunity.com/sale/EKARDLMZ/&amp;h=356&amp;w=475&amp;sz=26&amp;hl=en&amp;start=63&amp;tbnid=ymkKerYTte bC5M:&amp;tbnh=97&amp;tbnw=129&amp;prev=/images%3Fq%3Dused%2Bpool%2Btables%2Bfor%2Bsale%26s tart%3D42%26gbv%3D2%26ndsp%3D21%26svnum%3D10%26hl% 3Den%26sa%3DN

Casey
11-08-2007, 03:32 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bradb:</font><hr>
Casey, check this out!.... its probably to far away for you, but its just an example of what you can get if you dig around on the net.
http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://www.buysellcommunity.com/uploads/103106/ww1/llxsmbwghntb.jpg&amp;imgrefurl=http://www.buysellcommunity.com/sale/EKARDLMZ/&amp;h=356&amp;w=475&amp;sz=26&amp;hl=en&amp;start=63&amp;tbnid=ymkKerYTte bC5M:&amp;tbnh=97&amp;tbnw=129&amp;prev=/images%3Fq%3Dused%2Bpool%2Btables%2Bfor%2Bsale%26s tart%3D42%26gbv%3D2%26ndsp%3D21%26svnum%3D10%26hl% 3Den%26sa%3DN <hr /></blockquote>

I wish their pictures were better. You're right WAY too far but my house was built in 1902 so a antique Brunswick like that would be awesome. But I'm not expecting to find anything like that right now.

Casey
11-08-2007, 03:37 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Casey:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote bradb:</font><hr>
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bradb:</font><hr>
As far as I know (and I had checked around with Brunswick here in Canada) Brunswick does not make a table in China and then put the Brunswick name on it. <hr /></blockquote>

I am going to try to figure this out once and for all today. If Brunswick doesn't make anything in China then I have been lied to by several people. Although salespeople are like presidents so who knows....
<hr /></blockquote>


HERE IS THE REPLY I JUST RECEIVED FROM THE "CONTACT US PAGE" ON BRUNSWICK'S SITE. It does sound a little bit vague though:

Brunswick has been a global sourcer of pool table components for over 30
years. Our table components come from the US, South America and Asia
(including China). We aim to supply consumers with the best designed,
manufactured and priced product available.



Joan Ledanski
Administrative Projects Manager
Brunswick Billiards

bradb
11-08-2007, 05:05 PM
Did you ask them if that means they got the "wood" from China?

Casey
11-08-2007, 05:42 PM
To clarify the Brunswick question farther I have another email from Brunswick. I will start a new thread.

BTW: I'm going to look at a used Olhausen &amp; Brunswick on Sat. So the quality of those other tables will most likely stay a mystery.

bradb
11-08-2007, 05:54 PM
Thats very interesting, I like to know just what he was referring too. I wonder if he meant some things like leather for pockets etc.?

I talked to Brunswick up here about 8 months ago and their story was they were out of that market, that they were going back to their Brunswick line only. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

bradb
11-08-2007, 07:31 PM
Casey... see my new thread on pool table consumer reports, it has the whole story -brad

Casey
11-08-2007, 10:03 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bradb:</font><hr>
I talked to Brunswick up here about 8 months ago and their story was they were out of that market, that they were going back to their Brunswick line only. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Maybe they actually had a different line under another name that they were actually SELLING in China and they did away with that. Either way that guy was at best trying to fool you with his answer /ccboard/images/graemlins/mad.gif