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07-29-2002, 11:16 AM

07-29-2002, 11:22 AM
just aim to over cut everything... you would be surprised how much higher your potting percentages go up. To me every excuse you have for missing is just that.. an excuse

Rod
07-29-2002, 11:29 AM
Whitewolf, Since it's lazy eye theory, I'll give you a lazy mental reply. LOL Most people will aim at the ball and adjust the hit, it is normal. A different approach is; work your way into the ball on thin hits. It can be used on cut shots in general, but I'd limit it to thinner hits. Experiment with that and tell me what you think.

07-29-2002, 11:34 AM

Vapros
07-29-2002, 11:38 AM
I have always been plagued with hitting my cut shots too fat, until recently - when I realized that I was misjudging the contact point on the cue ball, especially when the balls were close together. Since I figured that out, I have improved in that area.

Regarding the lazy eye, I have done all my seeing with one eye most of my life, due to a severe astigmatism. Surgery has helped the weak eye, but I still have no depth perception to speak of. It's a real problem when using the mechanical bridge, as I can't tell how close the cue tip is to the cue ball. Also, I can't see the trick pictures in which a second image appears when you stare. Guess I have learned to live with it, unconsciously, but I'm still not comfortable while parallel parking.

It doesn't hurt my pool, though. I recently ran three balls in a row!!

bluewolf
07-29-2002, 11:48 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: whitewolf:</font><hr> Last night I was driving and my wife who was following me called and asked me about aiming systems (are we addicted or what?!!). My mind, looking straight down the road at that moment, realized that this was much like using the ghost ball method, with the road being the ‘tube’ traveling to the ball and the ball represented by the side of the road/stripe. Now at that moment it occurred to me that a lesson I learned in drivers education could be put to use here. Some people naturally look at the side of the road when driving, and believe it or not, the car will start to drift there if you are not careful. Similarly, I can remember my instructor telling me not to fixate on the oncoming cars etc., lest you will fade/drift into them.

Similarly, with pool, when you are doing a cut shot, I believe that there is a tendency to have your eyes ‘fade/drift’ towards the object ball, thus making you hit it fat. I would venture to say that most of us, when we miss a cut shot down the rail for example, will hit the ball fat the majority of the time. Why is this? I attribute this to my lazy eye theory.

How do you get out of this bad habit? Practice nothing but moderate to extreme cut shots down the rail for an hour (using the ghost ball theory of course). Then tell me if your aiming improved or not.

Thanks, Whitewolf

I think I called you and said that it seemed that on an extreme cut, i should be locking onto where i want to place the cue ball instead of locking onto the ob, that locking onto the ob makes you hit it too fat.

also a cut shot to the rail is very easy. you just use inside engllish and aim the cb right behind the ob.

and why do you call it a ghost ball. there is no ghost there&lt;G&gt; you just aim at where you want to place the cb to pocket the ball. &lt;VBG&gt;

one of these days i am going to beat you because i am right brained and right brained people see the whole picture LMAO

bluewolf

bluewolf
07-29-2002, 11:53 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: d0wnt0wn:</font><hr> just aim to over cut everything... you would be surprised how much higher your potting percentages go up. To me every excuse you have for missing is just that.. an excuse <hr></blockquote>

well that seems like it would keep you from cutting too thin?

bluewolf

Rod
07-29-2002, 11:54 AM
Yes, start out on the extreme and work into the ball. It works best for thinner cut shots. It can be used for any cut shot, but I wouldn't suggest to start out that way on a 45 degree cut, too much adjustment. It's just a different approach instead of inside out, it's outside in. I don't remember, I doubt it's any great seceret. Some may find that method more accurate.

SpiderMan
07-29-2002, 12:04 PM
Hey Whitey,

I'm not sure if you have the reason pegged, but I will chime in and vote in favor of your assumption that most misses tend to be hit fat. I've recently been spending time "working with myself" on long cuts down the rail, and have observed my own tendency to hit them a little fat.

On the other hand, I also think a lot of cuts are missed fat by people who don't properly allow for cling.

SpiderMan

07-29-2002, 12:12 PM
bluewolf it is pretty much a generally known fact that most misses on cut shots are missed fat for fear of over cutting... in fact aiming for a center of the pocket cut can often spell disaster as collision induced thro will force the shot to naturally under cut.. aiming to the far side of a pocket often gives much more desireable results

07-29-2002, 12:12 PM
bluewolf it is pretty much a generally known fact that most misses on cut shots are missed fat for fear of over cutting... in fact aiming for a center of the pocket cut can often spell disaster as collision induced thro will force the shot to naturally under cut.. aiming to the far side of a pocket often gives much more desireable results

bluewolf
07-29-2002, 12:22 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: d0wnt0wn:</font><hr> bluewolf it is pretty much a generally known fact that most misses on cut shots are missed fat for fear of over cutting... in fact aiming for a center of the pocket cut can often spell disaster as collision induced thro will force the shot to naturally under cut.. aiming to the far side of a pocket often gives much more desireable results <hr></blockquote>

i like that. aiming to the far side of the pocket. definatelly something worth trying in my next practic session. thanks.

bluewolf

heater451
07-29-2002, 12:28 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: whitewolf:</font><hr> . . .Now at that moment it occurred to me that a lesson I learned in drivers education could be put to use here. Some people naturally look at the side of the road when driving, and believe it or not, the car will start to drift there if you are not careful. Similarly, I can remember my instructor telling me not to fixate on the oncoming cars etc., lest you will fade/drift into them.<hr></blockquote>Target fixation is definitely a viable concept, and is covered in Motorcycle Safety Foundation basic course, so I can believe that it may have some effect as you say.

Instructor Pete, of the MSF, used to put it this way: "If you look at the tree, you will become the tree. . . ."

My own cutting idea, is similar to why I think Rod and d0wnt0wn advise what they do. Since I believe that it's 'easier' to undercut, than to overcut, then if you aim to overcut, you stand a greater chance of connecting in the correct area (by undercutting into it). --Incidentally, this feeds into other shooting ideas that I've had, delving into "margins of error", which I'll get to posting one of these days. . . .

07-29-2002, 12:34 PM

Rod
07-29-2002, 12:36 PM
DT, I agree and that's what happens most times, but the same can be said for the opposite. At any rate other than direction speed is often overlooked. A pocket can be a lot more friendly at a slower speed, and that ties in with aming to the far side. When humidity is up or the balls are not as clean as they should be, aiming to the far side is a requirement. We've all played on tables like that or those conditions.

socrates
07-29-2002, 12:57 PM
Interesting observation. The trouble spot for me is an thin cut that is one ball out from the cushion. Closer to the cusion I have no problems. Further from the cushion I do not seem to have a problem.

I shoot a practice shot as follows: Object ball one ball out from first diamond past side pocket. Then set the cue ball up at first diamond grid lines (foot spot line) and keep incresing the cut angle.

The trick for me (assuming you have a well lighted table) is to aim at the shadow cast by the object ball which keeps my eyes from drifting back to the cue ball.

This seems weird to me why I struggle with this particular shot at that cue ball location but I do. Anyway my observation may be consistent with your theory.

07-29-2002, 01:13 PM
now saying it and doing it all the time is another thing altogether lol...

bluewolf
07-29-2002, 03:50 PM
Post deleted by bluewolf

07-29-2002, 03:57 PM

phil in sofla
07-29-2002, 07:55 PM
Whether this is something with the eye, or something with the brain, it does seem that undercutting occurs.

Many who have discussed this consider it 'psychological,' or maybe an optical illusion.

Aiming to the far side of the pocket is just a way to overcut the ball (compared to your presumed center of the pocket aim line). Another tactic is to translate your aim line to something off the ball, either on the rail or off the table a bit, and aim for that, ignoring the contact point the aim was originally based on.

On one of Burt Kinnister's tapes, he says that whenever you are cutting a lot, a thin cut, ALWAYS aim thinner than you think you need. Slower speed shots also benefit from this advice, to cut them more, because, I guess, cling may be more pronounced in a slower collision. (Note, on hard strokes, this advise is reversed, to aim a little more fat on the ball, probably because the tendency to get the cue ball airborne makes it contact the object ball thinner, above the equator line of the balls).

bluewolf
07-30-2002, 02:20 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: whitewolf:</font><hr> Last night I was driving and my wife who was following me called and told me about how she had figured out on her own that she should have been locking onto the ghost ball and not the object ball (my original error in describing the aiming process), (are we addicted or what?!!). My mind, looking straight down the road at that moment, realized that this was much like using the ghost ball method, with the road being the ‘tube’ traveling to the ball and the ball represented by the side of the road/stripe. Now at that moment it occurred to me that a lesson I learned in drivers education could be put to use here. Some people naturally look at the side of the road when driving, and believe it or not, the car will start to drift there if you are not careful. Similarly, I can remember my instructor telling me not to fixate on the oncoming cars etc., lest you will fade/drift into them.

Similarly, with pool, when you are doing a cut shot, I believe that there is a tendency to have your eyes ‘fade/drift’ towards the object ball, thus making you hit it fat. I would venture to say that most of us, when we miss a cut shot down the rail for example, will hit the ball fat the majority of the time. Why is this? I attribute this to my lazy eye theory.

he went on to tell me about 'eclipse' which is on my list that i have gotten from you guys of something to try.

bluewolf