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pooltchr
11-06-2007, 06:58 PM
Here is a REAL INTERVIEW with an illegal Mexican at a protest march in
Texas.

This is good! Below is a good example of a discussion with a master of
circular logic. Don't be
logical, don't respect the truth or your adversary, just say what you
think makes a new case
when the previous case gets too difficult to defend.

Jim Moore reporting for a Houston TV station on the streets of downtown
Houston on May 1, 2006:

Jim: Juan, I see that you and thousands of other protesters are
marching
in the streets to demonstrate for your cause. Exactly what is your
cause
and what do you expect to accomplish by this protest?

Juan: We want our rights. We will show you how powerful we are. We will
bring Houston to its knees!

Jim: What rights?

Juan: Our right to live here...legally. Our right to get all the
benefits you get.

Jim: When did you come to the United States?

Juan: Six years ago. I crossed over the border at night with seven
other
friends.

Jim: Why did you come?

Juan: For work. I can earn as much in a month as I could in a year in
Mexico. Besides, I get free health care, our Mexican children can go to
school free, if I lose my job I will get Welfare,
and someday I will have the Social Security. Nothing like that in
Mexico!

Jim: Did you feel badly about breaking our immigration laws when you
came?

Juan: No! Why sho uld I feel bad? I have a right to be here. I have a
right to amnesty. I paid lots of money for my Social Security and Green
Cards.

Jim: How did you acquire those documents?

Juan: From a guy in Dallas. He charged me a lot of money too.

Jim: Did you know that those documents were forged?

Juan: It is of no matter. I have a right to be here and work.

Jim: What is the "right" you speak of?

Juan: The right of all Aliens. It is found in your Constitution. Read
it!

Jim: I have read it, but I do not remember it saying anything about
rights for Aliens.

Juan: It is in that part where it says that all men have Alien rights,
like the right to pursue happiness. I wasn't happy in Mexico, so I came
here.

Jim: I think you are referring to the declaration of Independence and
that document speaks to unalienable rights .. Not Alien rights.

Juan: Whatever.

Jim: Since you are demanding to become an American citizen, why then
are
you carrying a Mexican Flag?

Juan: Because I am Mexican.

Jim: But you said you want to be given amnesty ...to become a US
citizen.

Juan: No. This is not what we want. This is our country, a part of
Mexico that you Gringos stole from us. We want it returned to its
rightful owner.

Jim: Juan, you are standing in Texas. After wining the war with Mexico,
Texas became a Republic, and later Texans voted to join the USA. It was
not stolen from Mexico.

Juan: That is a Gringo lie. Texas was stolen. So was California, New
Mexico and Arizona. It is just like all the other stuff you Gringos
steal, like oil and babies. You are a country of thieves.

Jim: Babies? You think we steal babies?

Juan: Sure. Like from Korea and Vietnam and China. I see them all over
the place. You let all these foreigners in, but try to keep us Mexicans
out. How is this fair?

Jim: So, y ou really don't want to become an American citizen then.

Juan: I just want my rights! Everyone has a right to llive, work, and
speak their native language wherever and whenever they please. That's
another thing we demand. All signs and official
documents should be in Spanish . Teachers must teach in Spanish. Soon,
more people here in Houston will speak Spanish than English. It is our
right!

Jim: If I were to cross over the border into Mexico without proper
documentation, what rights would I have there?

Juan: None. You would probably go to jail, but that's different.

Jim: How is it d! ifferent ? You said everyone has the right to live
wherever they please.

Juan: You Gringos are a bunch of land grabbing thieves. Now you want
Mexico too? Mexico has its rights. You Gringos have no rights in
Mexico.
Why would you want to go there anyway? There is no free medical
service,
schools, or welfare there for foreigners such as you. You cannot even
own land in my country. Stay in the country of your birth.

Jim: I can see that there is no way that we can agree on this issue.
Thank you for your comments.

Juan: Viva Mexico!

Pass this along to every American citizen in your address books and to
every representative in the state and federal government.

If you choose to remain uninvolved, do not be amazed when you no longer
have a nation to call your own nor anything you have worked for left
since it will be "redistributed" to the activists while you are so
peacefully staying out of the "fray".

Check history, it is full of nations/empires that disappeared when its
citizens no longer held their core beliefs and values. One person CAN
make a difference. One plus one plus one plus one plus one plus
one........

The battle for our secure borders and immigration laws that actually
mean something, however, hasn't even begun.

Amazing. And this is the person Hillary thinks we should be giving amnesty to! Did anyone catch her comment from the debate where she said we should have passed the amnesty bill????????????????????

Steve

LAMas
11-06-2007, 09:52 PM
Duplicate post

LAMas
11-06-2007, 09:59 PM
Tap, Tap, Tap. A very revealing post. We have the same problem here in CA and our politicians don't lift a hand except to wave them in. Are the Mexican truckers crossing over the border at will?

LAMas
11-07-2007, 09:56 AM
It turns out not to be true according to Snopes, but I still enjoyed it for it's droll humor. I guess not many share this sentiment here.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/immigration/interview.asp

Chopstick
11-07-2007, 11:48 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote LAMas:</font><hr> It turns out not to be true according to Snopes, but I still enjoyed it for it's droll humor. I guess not many share this sentiment here.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/immigration/interview.asp <hr /></blockquote>

Snopes may be right about this exact interview however, I did see I saw an interview like the one described, on TV during one of their demonstrations. I specifically remember the part where he declared "this is our country now. We gonna show you."

LAMas
11-07-2007, 11:50 PM
Snopes may be right about this exact interview however, I did see I saw an interview like the one described, on TV during one of their demonstrations. I specifically remember the part where he declared "this is our country now. We gonna show you." <hr /></blockquote>

Yes he was describing his country of Aztlan that we are occupying.

http://www.mayorno.com/WhoIsMecha.html

The myth of Aztlan can best be explained by California's Santa Barbara School District's Chicano Studies textbook, "The Mexican American Heritage" by East Los Angeles high school teacher Carlos Jimenez. On page 84 there is a redrawn map of Mexico and the United States, showing Mexico with a full one-third more territory, all of it taken back from the United States. On page 107, it says "Latinos are now realizing that the power to control Aztlan may once again be in their hands."



Shown are the "repatriated" eight or nine states including Colorado, California, Arizona, Texas, Utah, New Mexico, Oregon and parts of Washington. According to the school text, Mexico is supposed to regain these territories as they rightly belong to the "mythical" homeland of Aztlan. On page 86, it says "...a free-trade agreement...promises...if Mexico is to allow the U.S. to invest in Mexico...then Mexico should...be allowed to freely export...Mexican labor. Obviously this would mean a re-evaluation of the border between the two countries as we know it today." Jimenez's Aztlan myth is further amplified at MEChA club meetings held at Santa Barbara Public Schools..



The book, paid for by American tax payers, cites no references or footnotes, leaving school children totally dependent on their teacher to separate fact from opinion and political propaganda. The book teaches separatism, victimization, nationalism, completely lacks patriotism towards the United States, and promotes an open border policy. The book is 100 percent editorial -- the opinions of the author.

Chopstick
11-08-2007, 09:19 AM
"Apparently, these "Raza" cults are composed of people who unabashedly hate the United States and often support other groups and leaders who also hate America. Raza's hatred of America is so intense, that most make bedfellows to anyone else who also hates America, like dictator Fidel Castro; murderer of his own people Sadam Hussain; and the women hating Taliban -- and of course they sympathize with all Islamic Terrorists over the Israel/Palestine issue. Raza cults are the loudest and most insistent element of the immigration lobby in California. Inebriated with a sense of righteous victimhood, and entranced by myths of a heroic racial past, devotees of the Aztlan cults are rapidly extending their influence within California's Hispanic population, particularly among students in the university system."


<font color="blue">OMG. I had no idea this was going on. This is very bad. </font color>

Gayle in MD
11-08-2007, 09:37 AM
Too bad Ronald Reagan's policies, Amnesty, to be exact, encouraged this unprecedented influx of illegals to flow across our borders. Bush, has made it clear from the start, he want's as many as possible, cheap labor for his corporate fascist pigs.

Bush removed the many added border guards that Clinton had put in place to combat the problem. Bad move indeed. No one would even be discussing driver permits, to try to get a handle on who the hell is here, if not for the Republican policies, which have grossly exascerbated the problem. Now, no solution seems to be a good one. Typical results of Republicans running the country. Same deal in Iraq. No good solutions, to the quagmire.

Pretty simple solution on the one hand, if only it were retroactive. Had your Republican hero, RR, not ignored the immigration laws of the land, and not given them amnesty, we wouldn't be facing this unprecedented invasion right now.

Gayle in Md.

SKennedy
11-08-2007, 04:53 PM
Good grief Charlie Brown! Does she ever quit? Same old talking points and political cliches over, and over, and over, and over again. Please, let's all vote for Hillary and all of Gayle's other beloved liberal democrats so this nightmare will end. Sometimes she actually sounds relatively reasonable and then she always falls back to the corporate facists piggy comments and others like it and ruins an otherwise post that started out reasonably well aside from her blaming Republicans for things that had full bipartisan support, more especially among the liberals. You're actually complaining about Bush wanting to let illegal immigrants remain in this country just like the libs? Hey, I'm with you on that one! Except I don't recall him saying he was pro amnesty and allowing them to come over here for his "corporate fascist pigs." Reasons aside, will you come to Texas and help me erect a fence along the border? Maybe we can do a little dove hunting, and if the birds get slow we can see if they'll start a season on illegal immigrants. I'll bring the guns and you bring the desire and the booze! Will your boat float in the Rio Grande? We can turn it into a gun boat. Maybe Kerry will captain it for us? He'll jump at the chance if we tell him he can get medals for mosquito bites.

eg8r
11-08-2007, 06:09 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Does she ever quit? Same old talking points and political cliches over, and over, and over, and over again. Please, let's all vote for Hillary and all of Gayle's other beloved liberal democrats so this nightmare will end. <hr /></blockquote> If you believe this, then I have a bridge to sell you. Gayle told us that when Pelosi took over and the Dems got control things would change. Well she was correct, things changed...the ratings dropped in the toilet down to 11%. Do you ever see Gayle post those statistics? NOPE. Do you know what her defense is...listen close it is hilarious...The dems do not have enough votes to get anything done. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

You see, even when they win and then fail she still finds someone else to blame other than those whom she supports. If Clinton wins and falls on her face, then we will hear the same things from her.

eg8r

SKennedy
11-08-2007, 08:46 PM
Of course I was joking about voting democrat....unless Deeman runs on their ticket!

LWW
11-09-2007, 04:38 AM
Don't you dare badmouth Goddess Hillary ... she can't be expected to go thru the same things a male would running for POTUS!

Value of Hillary's healthcare plan = $0.02.

Value of Hillary's socialist agenda = $0.02.

Watching the neoleft's uberfeminist hiding behind being female on the campaign trail to avoid questions of corruption and bad policy = PRICELESS!

LWW

DickLeonard
11-09-2007, 08:28 AM
Hilliary will have GWBs administration to copy for Honesty,Integrity, a Flagship for Ideals.$$$$

Gayle in MD
11-09-2007, 10:26 AM
Hoping your rant made you feel better, fact is, a Republican President, pushed for amnesty.

Clinton added border patrols, Bush removed them.

Statistics prove that Reagan's amnesty program, was followed by an unprecedented influx of illegal aliens. It was Reagan's policy.

As for corporate Fascist Pigs, this country is full of them.
Read Lou Dobbs Book, The War On The Middle Class, and also, The Rise Of The Vulcans, for a more complete outline of how instrumental Reagan, Bush Sr., Bush Junior, Rumsfeld, Rice and Cheney were in building the present terrorist threats, and their numbers. I might add, both Lou Dobbs, and I, use the term, PIGS, as the most appropriate term for identifying the corporate fascist phenomena which is building, from the right, I might add. Also, Bush has sent the message out from the beginning of his REGIME, that our policies, while he is presdient, will be illegal alien friendly. Most of the savy political insiders believe that cheap labor for the Corporate Fascists, is his goal. Anything and everything for the bottom line, and to hell with the negative consequences, usually impacting the poor and middle class here in our country.

FYI, I have written that the Democratic position is not my philosophy on illegal aliens. I have also stated my belief that laws should be enforced, both national, and international, above all. In my view, Republicans are the biggest offenders in breaking the laws of our land, and international laws, as well.


Republican Presidents are disasterous. Republican policies have armed large numbers of radical "Freedom Fighters" as they used to be called, in the Middle East. Jumped in bed with despots, using fear of communism as their method for selling their policies. Truth is, we have more weapons and guns than any other nation on earth. Our troops, are now being killed with some of those same weapons which were spread all around the Middle east during the Ragan/Bush/ Administrations, and the Bush Regime.

Only one president made great strides in reducing our oil consumption, and hence, the threat of terror, and wars in the Middle East. He was a Democrat, President Jimmy Carter. The American Oil corporate fascists, surely didn't like him any more than their supporters, Republicans. He warned this country of our present circumstances, long ago. He was targeted by the right, made fun of, and slandered, much the same way the right does presently, to Al Gore. Like Clinton, who warned the country about the importances of focusing on al Qaeda, Carter and Gore have been attacked for their efforts, and their fore sight, by Republicans, whose own policies have contributed to the critical circumstance in which our country now must face. Namely, Global warming, terrorism, Oil Wars, and powerful Saudi Arabian back stabbers, who George Bush, holds hands with, and who Republicans, have been in business with for decades.

Bush Senior, is the president who has been in business with bin Laden's family for decades, and with numerous wealthy Saudis, along with his son W., and other senior Republican "Statesmen". I suppose if they were Democrats, you righties wouldn't think there was anything unusual, or suspicious, about a Democrat, flying the entire family of the man who attacked our country, out of here, without even an hour of interrogation. I suppose, also, if a Democrat was seen with a Saudi Arabian Prince, holding hands, during a time when his country was supporting the terrorists who were killing our troops in the Middle East, none of you righties would be connecting the dots.

Neither party suits me to a tee, however, nothing could be worse for this country, than more Republican policies. apparently, three quarters of Americans see things my way, as they want change from Bush's policies, think the war was a mistake, think Bush is incompetence, and decietful, and also, give higher ratings of Democrats, than Republicans, in the Congress. And, in fact, these Democrats in Congress, which the right holds completely responsible for the disillusionment in our country, have higher ratings, than our present Republican President.

Illegals, have been given a big welcome mat, by George Bush, just as they were given by Ronald Reagan. While I don't agree with the Democratic position of how to deal with the problem, the fact is, Republicans exascerbated the problem with flawed policies, just as they have done regarding their policies in the Middle East, pollutants in our environment, and our lack of oversight as regards all the above mentioned issues which have now come to roost right on our doorsteps, and wallets.

Gayle in Md.





It's too bad that you find these facts so irritating. that doesn't change them.

SKennedy
11-09-2007, 11:34 AM
I don't find the facts irritating. As a matter of fact, I agree with you on some of your points. One area we disagree on is the subject of Jimmy Carter.

As for "savy political insiders"...I will admit that I am not one. However, I think I am right just about as much as they are on issues and on prognostications. I assume the "savy political insiders" you speak of are those with whom you generally agree. Therefore, I guess there are none of those beings found within the Republican Party?

And yes, I did enjoy my "rant." However, my rants can't begin to compare with yours. But I bet my runcles can! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Gayle in MD
11-09-2007, 12:18 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I don't find the facts irritating. As a matter of fact, I agree with you on some of your points. <font color="red"> /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif </font color> One area we disagree on is the subject of Jimmy Carter.
<font color="red">ARe you saying he didn't warn us? Are you saying he didn't measurably reduce our oil consumption? He didn't inherit residual economic hard time after Ford? I know that right likes to wrap his entire administration on his inability to get our hostages out sooner, but do you think it's fair to judge him on that one thing alone? He warned us about problems in the Middle East if we didn't reduce our dependency on foreign oil, and create more American jobs through domestic programs for conservation, solar power, and other renewable sources of energy. Are you saying that events since, prove him wrong? As I recall, Reagan took the solar panels off the Whtie House, which Carter had installed. Now this may seem like a small issue to you, but IMO, and according to the research that my little brain is capabel of interpreting, my observation is that Reagan, and both Bush's, have been on the side of big oil, throughout. Also, Reagan and both Bush's have been against conservation methods, and pollution limitations on corporate pigs, who don't give a damn about the poison they fill our atmosphere with, or the health effects on all of us, including their own families. The cigarette corporate pigs, are a good example of this, IMO.

Carter had it right. Our foreign policy should revolve around winning hearts and minds, all over the world, by being good samaritans to those who need some assistance, not forcing other nations to bow to our dictations, by becomming occupiers, and using bombs and guns. Let's not bring terrorists into this, as this problem of terrorism was just becomming an organized movement at the end of the Clinton Administration, and resulted from Republican policies, IMO, </font color>

As for "savy political insiders"...I will admit that I am not one. However, I think I am right just about as much as they are on issues and on prognostications. <font color="red">Did you think occupying Iraq was the appropriate priority after bin Laden blew up the WTC, attacked the Pentagon, and almost wiped out the capital, and/or the White House? Do you think this was strictly a humanitarian action, or do you think that the connections between Bush, Cheney and the rest, and Corporate Oil, was the real reason for the unprecedented, and un-necessary pre-emptive attack on a country with no WMD's, and nothing to do with our National horror?</font color> I assume the "savy political insiders" you speak of are those with whom you generally agree. Therefore, I guess there are none of those beings found within the Republican Party?

<font color="red">Hey, I have my own Republican hero, here and there, few, but a few. I happen to believe that watching Republicans since they took over congress, has been a commentary to corruption, and lies, broken laws, and broken promises, and not in our best interests. I started disliking them when they blew the whole Clinton thing out of proportion, and crippled his ability to do what needed to be done to head off the al Qaeda network. He had to fight Republicans for every single dollar in order to implement additional units and agencies to combat bin Laden, and al Qaeda. I've posted the Republican responses here, quotes, which prove that they took the complete opposite ideology after 9/11, from their wag the dog accusation of the Clinton era. My observations, according to my own values, and concerns as an American citizen, is that nothing is worse for this country than Republican foreign policy, and Republican economics. When too few people, control huge percentages of the countries treasure, what do you think results? The gap is right there in the government charts. History tells us what follows such economics, and many of the warnings signs are present, now, and growing daily.

Also, I really don't like most of the Republicans I listen to, nor do I approve of their philosophies, or their methods, and particularly thier connections with fudalmentalists, whohave been nothing but trouble for mankind throughout history. </font color>

And yes, I did enjoy my "rant." However, my rants can't begin to compare with yours. <font color="red">Well, I think of a rant as being a Republican term to identify any non Republican female with a strong opinion about just about anything, so deal, my friend, because until the last one of our troops is out of the middle east, I will be, "Ranting" about the decietful, worng headed Republican Policies which sent them into Iraq, and further destablized a region that was barely chugging along with intermittant, erruptions, which COOULD be contained, unlike now, when it is obviously hovering on the brink of complete regional disaster, thans to the neocon, corporate fascist friendly, agenda.</font color> But I bet my runcles can! <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="red">I truly do not have a clue what runcles are, is that a gender phenomena, or a Republican affliction? </font color>

wolfdancer
11-09-2007, 12:36 PM
Dick, I think the mothership landed recently, and we have 3 illegal aliens on board here.....
The Gotti family looks like an Amish group compared to the Bush family

SKennedy
11-09-2007, 02:59 PM
Now Gayle....do I really need to explain a sophomoric joke about "rants" vs "runcles." You, of all people should understand that you cannot be too cerebral when trying to understand a southern conservative christian.

I too am very disappointed in the Repulican Party and the opportunities thay have squandered and how they have let us down for the last 8 years.

And please don't turn this into a gender thing....."non-republican female with a strong opinion"....it has nothing to do with republican or otherwise, and certainly has nothing to do with females and strong opinions....no one is more opinionated than my wife.

And you can argue until doomsday about the merits of Carter and never change my mind about the man. He may mean well, but I am thankful that he was an ineffective leader and did not do more harm than he did. And, he continues to be an embarrasment (IMHO).

Sure glad it's Friday. Think I'll go home, change into the wife-beater tee shirt, pop a few, and then beat the hell out of my opinionated old lady!! She may be a woman...she may be more educated than me, and she may be far superior to me in most aspects, but the bottom line is that I am male, I have more testosterone, and I am faster and stronger than her. Might makes right! Right?

Gayle in MD
11-09-2007, 03:55 PM
This is how you speak of a man who has devoted his entire life to helping the needy, a Veteran, and a Nobel Peace Prize Winner. President Carter never disgraced this country with lies, torture, secret prisons, outing CIA operatives for revenge, launching wars on lies. You have a very strange set of values, my friend, but you are welcome to yours, just as I am worthy of selecting my own.

Have a nice weekend, as will I, with my friends, and family, in the warm comfort of my beautiful home, far from the dangers of Bush's war in Iraq, but probably near the al Qaeda cells which are surely here, and most likely, making their plans, just as before.

Sleep well, my fellow American.

pooltchr
11-09-2007, 07:01 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SKennedy:</font><hr> And you can argue until doomsday about the merits of Carter and never change my mind about the man. He may mean well, but I am thankful that he was an ineffective leader and did not do more harm than he did. And, he continues to be an embarrasment (IMHO).

<hr /></blockquote>

I think you are being a little harsh on JC. I'm just glad he didn't bring in a half a dozen trailers and park them on the white house lawn. Although, he might have considered installing a couple of outhouses for those times when Billy came to visit! /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Yeah, he won a Nobel prize...so did Algore! With the exception of Ford, I can't think of another president who accomplished so little during his term. But considering he is a Democrat, that may be a blessing.
Steve