View Full Version : Free will,and Democracy

11-14-2007, 01:54 PM
As most of you know,I'm an Atheist,and believe strongly in the right of others to worship as they please. I also believe the Church,and Government,should maintain a reasonable distance,so all of us can freely express our rights,in the voting both. Is this possible? web page (http://) http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071114/ap_on_re_us/catholic_bishops

Gayle in MD
11-14-2007, 02:51 PM
Funny you would post this today, as I was just writing about my first, or atleast close to my first, political post on this forum about Separation of Church and State. Seems a basic American Principle of fact, don't you think?

What inspired me to post was when my elderly aunt, a devout Catholic, called me to report that she had gone up to the priest, after the service, (this was back before Bush "Election") and told him that he had no right to use the Catholic pulpit to instruct his parishoners on who they MUST vote for in the election, bacause we have Separation Of church and State in this country.

I got bashed, of course, and I was surprised, at the time, not being aware that there were actually people around who thought that religion should be mixed in with our politics. or that churches weren't crossing the line to attempt to dictate to their parishoners how to vote.

It seems to me that this has been largely a Karl Rove method for securing the religious right, and as I understand it, he actually used mailing lists from churches, during the campaign. Although REagan, was the first, I believe, to utilize the Christian Coalition in his campaign, I think.

Like you, I am against mixing organized religion, in our political discourse, or the making of our laws, and think also, that questions about any candidates private spiritual beliefs, are inappropriate, given that we are supposed to maintain that separation.

This is a result of the organization of the Christian Coalition, which I feel is breaking the law by organizing itself into a political movement, without giving up its tax exemption.

I think all believers, including Muslims, should be left to their own choices as far as religion is concerned, (although we should have secret service or FBI operatives in every Mosque in this country, IMO) I do not think that they should be allowed to dictate to others according to their own beliefs, and that is exactly what they are orgainzing to accomplish.

Jewish children, should not be forced to sit in a classroom and be subjected to other children, praying, to a different God, nor should a family, be forced to make personal, private family decisions about birth control, abortion, pulling life support, gays marrying gays, according to what is believed by the Christian right, or what they determine is a sin, and what is not a sin.

A number of people I know have left the Catholic church, due to their recent actions to insist that their parishoners vote as they say. Rather ballsy, don't you think, since we are not yet over their disgusting protections of child abusers? Worse than pretection, actually, they were criminal conspiritors in those crimes.

I sure hope Bush doesn't have the opportunity to appoint another Supreme Court Judge, and that a Democratic gets to appoint the ones to come, or we'll all be living in a fundelmentalist religious dictatorship, and we women will be parading around in black robes with hoods.

Can you imagine how hot those things are? And the Arab men, all dressed in nice cool white clothing, and people say that organized religion doesn't discriminate against women! /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

11-14-2007, 03:06 PM
It was wrong, in my opinion for the Catholic church to do this. But, don't blow this out of proportion.....
How many catholics practice some form of birth control, etc.?
And of course, we (left vs right) will have a fundamental difference in how we view the term "separation of church and state" and exactly what out founding fathers meant. But I too am concerned when any organized religious group tries to dictate to their believers exactly how to vote. I think US citizens are an independent sort (good thing) and will vote the way they want to, regardless of any edicts from their churches.

11-14-2007, 04:09 PM
This is nothing new. The Catholic church and most other Christian churches have encouraged their members to vote for anti-abortion candidates for a long time. It's not illegal. When they advocate a specific candidate by name is when they begin to risk their tax exemption.

I wonder if the Buddhist temple where Al Gore had his fundraiser is still tax-exempt. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

11-14-2007, 04:52 PM
How many catholics practice some form of birth control, etc.?
We're only allowed to use the rhythm method.....I'm not sure how effective it is, but I always tried for a nice rhythm.
There's still some debate about using the pill, but that has been proven to be effective...she takes one aspirin, places it between her thighs,and keeps it there until her sex crazed date leaves .....

11-14-2007, 07:27 PM
When Huey Long was stump speaching,out in the boonies,he would often charge his opponent of "co-habitating with his wife,"much to the shock,and digust of the enlightened electorate present. I don't worry about Catholic voters,being so naive,but at the same time,I think instructions that demand the voters to stay true to an agenda approved by the Church,borders on politics. I further doubt,Catholics,are alone when it comes to spreading the Policitical Word,as interpreted by Church Elders.

11-14-2007, 09:15 PM
11th commandment...no co-habitation with thy wife.