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S0Noma
11-18-2007, 10:49 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Media came not to praise Bonds, but to bury Barry
November 18, 2007


When the media cover a news story with round-the-clock obsession, certain images and sound bites get repeated so often they virtually become logos for the story.

With Barry Bonds the last few days, the virtual logos have been footage of Bonds rounding the bases after his 756th home run, video clips of Bonds looking and sounding defiant, and images of sportswriters on camera denouncing baseball for "looking the other way" while Bonds and others pumped up interest in the sport by pumping baseballs over outfield fences all over the country.

Baseball was hardly alone in turning a blind eye during its steroids era. With a few vigilant exceptions, the media not only jumped onto the Home Run Revival bandwagon, they also fueled it, kept the wheels in working order, rode shotgun and helped Bud Selig figure out how to make sense of the newfangled GPS satellite navigation system.

Looking back today on the 1998 home-run derby between Mark McGwire and Sammy Sosa, sports commentators refer derisively to that season as baseball's "Summer of Love." There is a tone of contempt as those words are uttered, as if the media knew then what they know now -- that those home runs were powered by something more than sculpted hardwood.

In July 1998, Steve Wilstein, an Associated Press sportswriter, discovered a brown jar labeled "androstenedione" sitting in McGwire's locker stall. After doing some research about androstenedione, a body-building supplement then banned by the NFL, the NCAA and the Olympics, Wilstein wrote about it on Aug. 21. He was promptly denounced by other media colleagues for "snooping" and "looking too hard" around McGwire's locker.

Physical evidence was staring the media in the face weeks before McGwire and Sosa entered their September stretch run in the race to break Roger Maris' home-run record. That evidence was swept aside in the frenzy to create two new American folk heroes, to drive along this made-for-"SportsCenter" and front-page-friendly feel-good story.

McGwire and Sosa made that happen in no small part because of their relations with the media. Sosa and his camera-ready smile were the photogenic essence of charisma. McGwire was less comfortable with the spotlight, but he made an effort to cooperate with media requests and seemed a decent guy. That notion was furthered along by the emotional approval McGwire received from members of Maris' family.

Several sportswriter friends and I then marveled about the media love-in surrounding McGwire and Sosa. I remember saying at the time, "I wonder what would happen if somebody the media didn't like was chasing the record. Suppose Barry Bonds was chasing it."

We laughed. In 1998, Bonds was already runaway champion in the Surliest Interview In Sports sweepstakes. He was also a high-average hitter who had managed 40 home runs in a season only three times in his first 13 seasons, including 1998, when he finished with 37 home runs.

As we saw very vividly, Bonds changed after 1998. The irony today is as thick as quicksand, but Bonds was a lock for the Hall of Fame in 1998, yet felt those accomplishments had been buried by the avalanche of happy McGwire and Sosa headlines. Bonds decided to do something about that, and assembled a personal team to help him do whatever it would take.

Nine years later, Bonds has been indicted for lying under oath about steroid use. ESPN, which has operated since 2001 under the unofficial subtitle "The Barry Channel," turned all its experts loose on the slugger during a "SportsCenter Special" report. The network that once gave us the Bonds-sanctioned pseudo-reality show "Bonds on Bonds" was now reconfiguring for the new possibility of "Bonds Needs Bail Bonds."

ESPN rolled out all sorts of interviews and talking heads, including a basketball analyst from TNT, Charles Barkley. Barkley described the Bonds case as "a selective prosecution witch hunt" spurred in part by Bonds' prickly personality.

"This is the only guy who has been indicted," Barkley said, meaning baseball players whose names have been linked to steroids. "We didn't have prosecution against Mark McGwire. We didn't have prosecution against Jason Giambi. I'm not here to defend Barry or condone anything, but this to me, from the beginning -- they just don't like Barry Bonds.

"They don't think he's a nice guy. First of all, he's not paid to be a nice guy. He's paid to hit home runs. That's his job. He's the best baseball player we've ever seen in the last 25 years, but to drag this out for four years . . .

"They don't like Barry's personality, because he doesn't get along well with the media, and he's not the best guy with the fans."

As disturbing as it is to write these words, no one during ESPN's special report made more sense than Stephen A. Smith.

Smith said the Bonds prosecution was selective because "he was chasing the all-time home-run record and the federal government saw it as an opportunity to make a huge statement and they wanted to take advantage of that.

"I do believe it was also selective in regards to timing. Because I think if this was the late '90s, I don't believe it would have been the case . . . because Mark McGwire was chasing Roger Maris' single-season all-time home-run record just four years removed from the World Series cancellation. They were trying to resurrect the sport.

"I think a lot of people knew then that steroids [were] prevalent in the sport. They turned a blind eye and a deaf ear to it."

On the same day the Bonds indictments came down, baseball announced revenue of $6.075 billion this year. We can consider the sport resurrected. The timing was right for a steroids indictment, and Bonds was the right kind of antihero needed for a sport seeking conditions safe enough to finally take a stand <hr /></blockquote>

web page (http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-sound18nov18,1,7083618.column?coll=la-headlines-sports)

S0Noma
11-18-2007, 03:11 PM
http://www.tshirthell.com/shirts/products/a678/a678_bm.gif

SKennedy
11-19-2007, 11:06 AM
My 2 cents worth..........
I don't care much for Barry Bonds. However, he is one of many who has taken steroids. It's much more rampant that what we think..at all levels...high school, college, and pro. Why? It does make you stronger and helps give you that edge to make it to the next level. We pay these guys millions of dollars and treat them like gods and wonder why they take steroids? I think we make too much out of it.....

sack316
11-19-2007, 12:01 PM
SKennedy, you are spot on there. Roids, and many other "nutritional supplements" have been a part of the game (as well as most athletics IMO) for a long long time.

Here's a little bit from my own doings. Most of my friends on here know I played baseball for most of my life. The few of you who have met me in person (Deeman will attest to this) know that I am not exactly what you'd call a big man. My sophomore year in high school I was generously listed as being 5 foot 7 and a buck thirty. I was a good player, and had done many workouts for colleges and some pro teams at the time. Most reviews were good (on the scoring grades I rated out on average 10-20 points lower than an average pro player), with the main knock on me being my size, lack of strength, and power.

I worked out hard to try to improve my strength and size... and it was suggested to me that I check out creatine and andro. So I did, and my stamina increased immensely during workouts. I got so into it that I used creatine, andro, and 19 stenediol (a lesser known supplement thought to give similar results as a schedule 3 steroid). I used all of these at the same time in order to not have to cycle off of things.

And let me tell you, it worked! Junior year I had some home run pop, and by my senior season I was a legit power threat, topping out at weighing around 180 or so. During this time I was going to several colleges for work outs, and (without naming names) some major programs practically ran a pharmacy out of their weight rooms. Long story short, I became highly touted and highly recruited... eventually getting a scholarship to play ball.

Now granted, this was ten years ago, and things were a little different then. But take into account the fact that at such a young age these drugs (that most people knew very little about) were not only easy to get ahold of, they were actually suggested for use by coaches and scouts. I can only imagine what kind of pressure and goodies are pushed around at the higher levels.

Hell, just the feeling of what you can do is enough to mess with your mind. I was always the "little guy" for all of my life. Suddenly for a few years there I was strong enough to get grouped in with some of the stronger football players in the weight room. Looking back I was probably hooked on showing off what I COULD do. You know, look at the little man benching over 200 pounds ten times, check out the kid leg pressing over 400 over and over again. Watch this five foot (maybe) six inch dude blasting bombs in batting practice. Had I continued my career any longer than I did, I'm pretty sure I would have wound up doing whatever it took to continue to get whatever edge I could.

That all said, do I agree with roids or whatever being used in professional athletics... no I don't. But do I understand? Actually yes I do. I'm fortunate enough to know a few major leaguers from back in my playing days. And I cannot say to a certainty if any of them juice up or anything like that. But I do know what some of them looked like in high school and college and their early minor league years, and I know what they look like now. And I would definitely have my suspicions. And these people that I do know are all stand up guys... IF they are doing it, odds are likely that a majority of people are doing it as well.

So to the original post, which was also pretty spot on. Bonds is seemingly singled out mainly because he is unliked in the media plus he holds the most hallowed record in all of sports. Sure you have Giambi's and Sosa's and Big Mac's... and they are news, but in the long run nobody cares. They'd be discussed for a day and then on to the next story. Bonds, due to his personality and controversy, can be nearly as big and discussed as the Vick stuff and, as such, a perfect example of what can happen. Beyond that, going after Bonds almost serves a sense of justice most fans outside of San Fran have been wanting to see served. Nobody cares if Palmeiro has anything happen to him... put Bonds on trial and the world pays attention.

Sack

S0Noma
11-19-2007, 01:55 PM
sack316 - thank you. That was one of the most spot-on posts I've ever read in this forum. You expressed yourself very well.

Clearly, you have 'been there and done that' and you know from whence you speak.

Thanks again for taking the time to share your insights. It helps to know how pervasive steroids are in the world of sports. From high school through college and on into the professional arena the pressure on athletes to improve their performance is pervasive and compelling. It's not surprising that performance enhancing drugs are available every step of the way.

I suppose some questions should be asked:

Is the most important objective to us as sports fans peak athletic performance regardless of how it's accomplished?

Or, is the use of steroids by athletes a form of cheating?

If it is, are we willing to look the other way and disregard the physical damage that it causes to athletes in exchange for the increased prospect of a winning performance?

Or to put it another way, are the potential record breaking performances that can result (like breaking home run records) more important to our enjoyment of sports than the fact that these results are attained through the use of illegal, damaging drugs?

If that's the case what does that it say about us as sports fans?
------



Sonoma

SKennedy
11-19-2007, 02:11 PM
Palmeiro? One of my son's and mine favorites. But what a [censored] the way he handled things on his end the way he did. We lost a lot of respect for him.
My son also played college baseball....as a pitcher. He is 6'3", but the most he ever weighed was 185. 3 to 5 mph on his fast ball meant the difference between him being drafted or not. You don't think he ever considered roids? I told him he shouldn't and I still don't know if he ever did or not. If he did, it was for his last year in college. He did bulk up and increased his velocity, but he also worked very hard. If I had been in his shoes, I can assure you I'd have taken them. I'd bet more than 1/2 the boys on his college team took them.

Do roids help with hand-eye coorination? No! Do they turn you into a pro? No way! You already have to have the talent. But they can help give you that little edge you need. We had a local high school kid get drafted out of HS and signed as pro for $2.5 million. Everybody was happy! Kid threw 96 - 97 mph. After 1st year in minor league I spoke with his coach. Kid doing very poorly....took him off the juice and he is now only throwing about 84 to 86 mph. End of 2nd year...coach tells me the kid was a complete waste of money.....End of 3rd year coach tells me the kid is back to throwing low to mid 90's and is doing well. That was about 4 years ago and I don't know anything since....
Let's see now.....I'm 18 y/o...right out of HS and can get $2.5 million signing bonus to play baseball...money, chicks, some fame....stick a needle in my butt and be quick about it!
Bonds and athletes taking roids and the public then faults them? That's similar to Brittainy Spears and the like who in their youth become rich and famous, can't handle it, and then we wonder why they are nuts? Why don't we (society), as a whole, take some of this blame? We set the stage and encourage it, then act all offended and righteous when someone has a fall. The same folks who rant about steroid use and how terrible it is that someone does that to their body.....nevermind....I won't go there....

Deeman3
11-19-2007, 02:50 PM
Sonoma,

Sack has always told it like it is and has beat more devils at his young age than a lot of us. I count him as a good example to all of us. Never saw him without a nice smile on his face and a nice word for everyone.

However, I won't be challenging him to a game of baseball....

SKennedy
11-19-2007, 03:10 PM
Maybe my son could throw Sack some batting practice? I would...but rotator cuff is in bad shape. Result of throwing too much BP (didn't like machines) and not warming up properly when younger.

You know Deeman....baseball players as a general rule are a pretty good group of guys! Maybe even better than pool players. But when you combine the 2....really nice guys!

sack316
11-19-2007, 05:13 PM
S0Noma, thank you for your kind words. Odd as it seems, I felt comfortable giving my personal dealings with the matter on this public forum... yet it is something I have rarely ever discussed with close friends and family over the years.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote S0Noma:</font><hr>
Thanks again for taking the time to share your insights. It helps to know how pervasive steroids are in the world of sports. From high school through college and on into the professional arena the pressure on athletes to improve their performance is pervasive and compelling. It's not surprising that performance enhancing drugs are available every step of the way.
Sonoma <hr /></blockquote>

You got that right. Now as I said, things may be completely different now... I honestly don't know. But back then I would classify it as being "encouraged without encouraging" it. None of my personal coaches ever did anything like that, but some scouts, college coaches, and even higher level coaches had no problems hinting around the subject. I will never intend to pass blame on anyone else, though. Taking anything was a personal choice of mine, consequences and all. But then again, I was one of the "smart" kids... and the lure of any kind of extra boost was still enough for me. I can only imagine how tempting it may be for someone who is only aware of any positives and not negatives.

To attempt to answer some of your questions as best I can:

"Is the most important objective to us as sports fans peak athletic performance regardless of how it's accomplished?"

In a sense, yes. Although not technically sports, I think wrestling is a perfect example. Look at some of the biggest stars over years past, and why they become stars. Who gets to be the best is completely determined by fan reaction. Hulk Hogan couldn't wrestle a lick... we made him the icon he is. It translates across the board, when we dog a reciever for losing a step, a quarterback for losing some arm strength, a power hitter for having a struggling season. We, as fans, have always held the top athletes in the highest reguard without asking anything else, and lesser athletes become the butt of jokes. It is only recently that we have begun to question the methods in which these top athletes attained such glory. Only now that the spotlight has been turned on, and the fans seem to be looking for a "fair" game have we seen professional organizations scrambling to introduce effective testing policies. I find it unlikely that THEY know anything more now than they ever have about what their workers do.

"Or, is the use of steroids by athletes a form of cheating?"

that's one of these questions that can be debated all day long. In a pure definition sense, then likely you would answer yes. But then if you ask yourself "Why is it cheating", most would say because it is not natural, they are using chemicals to enhance their natural abilities. But then, by that answer, you must question whether or not eye glasses or contacts are cheating? Lasik Surgery? In the sense of cheating being some unnatural way of increasing ones abilities, would these things not be included in that definition?

"Or to put it another way, are the potential record breaking performances that can result (like breaking home run records) more important to our enjoyment of sports than the fact that these results are attained through the use of illegal, damaging drugs?"

I somewhat brushed on this earlier. A good example is McGwire and Sosa... we all knew something was up. We even made jokes about it. But at the same time we ate it up like Thanksgiving dinner. We paid our good money and turned a blind eye so we could make them cultural heroes.

Now are these records deserved? Absolutely, as much as I hate to admit it. But if you've ever swung a bat at a ball, you know how hard that is. These guys did it all against the best pitchers in the world. Added strength or not, it still takes immense skill to get good wood on a ball that many times. If all it took was muscle mass, any body builder could walk out there and put up 700 homers in a career. Nothing can be taken away from these players or their records... especially considering that it's likely the same percentage of pitchers had the same helping hand hitter do. But at the same time the whole era is somewhat tarnished.

"If that's the case what does that it say about us as sports fans?"

A lot.

Sack

sack316
11-19-2007, 05:14 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SKennedy:</font><hr> Palmeiro? One of my son's and mine favorites. But what a [censored] the way he handled things on his end the way he did. We lost a lot of respect for him.
My son also played college baseball....as a pitcher. He is 6'3", but the most he ever weighed was 185. 3 to 5 mph on his fast ball meant the difference between him being drafted or not. You don't think he ever considered roids? I told him he shouldn't and I still don't know if he ever did or not. If he did, it was for his last year in college. He did bulk up and increased his velocity, but he also worked very hard. If I had been in his shoes, I can assure you I'd have taken them. I'd bet more than 1/2 the boys on his college team took them.

Do roids help with hand-eye coorination? No! Do they turn you into a pro? No way! You already have to have the talent. But they can help give you that little edge you need. We had a local high school kid get drafted out of HS and signed as pro for $2.5 million. Everybody was happy! Kid threw 96 - 97 mph. After 1st year in minor league I spoke with his coach. Kid doing very poorly....took him off the juice and he is now only throwing about 84 to 86 mph. End of 2nd year...coach tells me the kid was a complete waste of money.....End of 3rd year coach tells me the kid is back to throwing low to mid 90's and is doing well. That was about 4 years ago and I don't know anything since....
Let's see now.....I'm 18 y/o...right out of HS and can get $2.5 million signing bonus to play baseball...money, chicks, some fame....stick a needle in my butt and be quick about it!
Bonds and athletes taking roids and the public then faults them? That's similar to Brittainy Spears and the like who in their youth become rich and famous, can't handle it, and then we wonder why they are nuts? Why don't we (society), as a whole, take some of this blame? We set the stage and encourage it, then act all offended and righteous when someone has a fall. The same folks who rant about steroid use and how terrible it is that someone does that to their body.....nevermind....I won't go there....
<hr /></blockquote>

Amen to that

sack316
11-19-2007, 05:16 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman3:</font><hr> Sonoma,

Sack has always told it like it is and has beat more devils at his young age than a lot of us. I count him as a good example to all of us. Never saw him without a nice smile on his face and a nice word for everyone.

However, I won't be challenging him to a game of baseball.... <hr /></blockquote>

Thanks deeman. I may not put myself in the "good example" category though... that is unless you add "... of what not to do" to the end of it /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Sack

sack316
11-19-2007, 05:21 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SKennedy:</font><hr> Maybe my son could throw Sack some batting practice? I would...but rotator cuff is in bad shape. Result of throwing too much BP (didn't like machines) and not warming up properly when younger.

You know Deeman....baseball players as a general rule are a pretty good group of guys! Maybe even better than pool players. But when you combine the 2....really nice guys! <hr /></blockquote>

Hey, I'd love that! I've been out of the game for years now, though, so I may not be quite as sharp as I once was. But I'd always be willing to give it a go... at least one of us could find some old glory... until we woke up the next day in pain /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

About what kind of guys baseball players and pool players are... both are the most immature, vile, disgusting, repulsive, and craziest people... and as you sort of said, some of the best people you'll ever meet in your life.

Sack

SKennedy
11-20-2007, 11:25 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote sack316:</font><hr>
Thanks deeman. I may not put myself in the "good example" category though... that is unless you add "... of what not to do" to the end of it /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gifSack <hr /></blockquote>

That's exactly what makes you a good example! You are wiling to share.

SKennedy
11-20-2007, 11:33 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote sack316:</font><hr>
Hey, I'd love that! I've been out of the game for years now, though, so I may not be quite as sharp as I once was. But I'd always be willing to give it a go... at least one of us could find some old glory... until we woke up the next day in pain /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

About what kind of guys baseball players and pool players are... both are the most immature, vile, disgusting, repulsive, and craziest people... and as you sort of said, some of the best people you'll ever meet in your life.
Sack <hr /></blockquote>
My son is still young enough he probably can't relate to the old glory thing..although last spring he opened up the arm a little in BP and told me he "paid" for it the next day or 2.

My daughter plays soccer and currently collegiate level. It's an OK game, but the people are different....even the parents. I just always related better to the baseball group...players, parents, etc. At my daughter's college soccer games the only fans in the bleachers that know how to root for a team and have fun are the baseball players and more especially the softball girls! And for the record....my children's athletic ability didn't come from me.....must be the milk-man!

sack316
11-20-2007, 10:24 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SKennedy:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote sack316:</font><hr>
Hey, I'd love that! I've been out of the game for years now, though, so I may not be quite as sharp as I once was. But I'd always be willing to give it a go... at least one of us could find some old glory... until we woke up the next day in pain /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

About what kind of guys baseball players and pool players are... both are the most immature, vile, disgusting, repulsive, and craziest people... and as you sort of said, some of the best people you'll ever meet in your life.
Sack <hr /></blockquote>
My son is still young enough he probably can't relate to the old glory thing..although last spring he opened up the arm a little in BP and told me he "paid" for it the next day or 2.

My daughter plays soccer and currently collegiate level. It's an OK game, but the people are different....even the parents. I just always related better to the baseball group...players, parents, etc. At my daughter's college soccer games the only fans in the bleachers that know how to root for a team and have fun are the baseball players and more especially the softball girls! And for the record....my children's athletic ability didn't come from me.....must be the milk-man! <hr /></blockquote>

I'm also technically still young enough to not pay too dearly for it... but the high cost of low living has likely caused my body some undue aging /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

And congrats on your daughter and soccer. I agree with you about the people around the game in general, but let me tell you... those are some of the most dedicated and phenominal athletes I've ever seen. When I was a work out freak, I ran cross country and track to stay in regular shape for baseball. As stated earlier, I was in pretty darn good shape and had (what I thought) was excellent endurance. When the other options weren't available for off season workouts, I talked to the soccer coach about working out with his team to keep in shape.

I went in thinking "ha ha, I can't wait to show up these soccer wussies". And I suppose that was true enough on the weight lifting side of things. But once that was done and we moved on to running and endurance training... I can only put it nicely by saying I got my butt whooped (which is a huge understatement). I remember vividly that first day when I couldn't even drive my car home immediately after because my legs were so shaky and I was so lightheaded. After a few weeks of them running circles around me, I have always had a huge respect for the peak condition soccer players stay in. I doubt I'll ever be in to the game as a fan, but I will always respect them as athletes... something I think too few people do.

But I will say that season running a few foul poles after practice didn't even make me break a sweat. I got to be one of those players the other ones nearly hated because if we were told to run 20 of them, I'd run 40 without stopping... I likely would have made a piss poor soccer player, but their training made me one heck of a foul pole runner /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Sack

SKennedy
11-21-2007, 10:17 AM
True about soccer players! My daughter has always been in good shape..gymnastics since 3 or 4 y/o, soccer since 4, etc. Her "boyfriend" is a soccer player and his legs look like they have muscles on his knee caps. And those "headers"....ouch! The real reason I played baseball....not as much running. Except for some conditioning, when it came to game time it's generally 90 ft at a time..and then a rest. Sometimes 180 ft. If you had to go 360 feet at one time...you could jog! And, I was so lazy I played the infield..... I guess that's also why I like pool!

Qtec
11-21-2007, 10:34 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SKennedy:</font><hr> My 2 cents worth..........
I don't care much for Barry Bonds. However, he is one of many who has taken steroids. It's much more rampant that what we think..at all levels...high school, college, and pro. Why? It does make you stronger and helps give you that edge to make it to the next level. We pay these guys millions of dollars and treat them like gods and wonder why they take steroids? I think we make too much out of it..... <hr /></blockquote>

Are you for the legalisation of drugs?
Is it illegal to use drugs to get high but legal if used to improve performance?

Would you want your son taking drugs, injecting himself with all kinds of crap because he believes its the only way to the top?

Q..........no drugs in sport........period.

sack316
11-21-2007, 12:51 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote SKennedy:</font><hr> My 2 cents worth..........
I don't care much for Barry Bonds. However, he is one of many who has taken steroids. It's much more rampant that what we think..at all levels...high school, college, and pro. Why? It does make you stronger and helps give you that edge to make it to the next level. We pay these guys millions of dollars and treat them like gods and wonder why they take steroids? I think we make too much out of it..... <hr /></blockquote>

Are you for the legalisation of drugs?
Is it illegal to use drugs to get high but legal if used to improve performance?

Would you want your son taking drugs, injecting himself with all kinds of crap because he believes its the only way to the top?

Q..........no drugs in sport........period.
<hr /></blockquote>

ah ha, good point, but then again we then must move on to what drugs are OK, and what are not. If you look at it as something that gives an unnatural boost to one's abilities--- then as I mentioned earlier, what about glasses, contacts, or lasik surgery?

If you look at it from a standpoint of what is legal and what is illegal, then you beckon the question about how the newest and untested synthetic is percieved. Just because it is too new to have been considered unlawful to have, would that then be OK?

Sure would be nice to simply have it be black and white on the topic, but each answer gives rise to only more questions. i.e. "no drugs in sport... period". Taken literally this would require no pain killers, no caffeine, etc. If you amend it to say "no illegal drugs in sport", andro was legal until 2004 but banned by the World Anti-Doping agency before that. How would that be factored in? What about the next "andro" that comes out? And finally, if you amend it to include substances that provide an unnatural ability, we are back to something as seemingly harmless as eyeglasses or even surgery to repair an ACL.

I wish there was an easy, clear answer. But I'm afraid there just is not one.

Sack

SKennedy
11-21-2007, 01:20 PM
Actually, I am for the legalization of some drugs, including some of those that get you "high." And no, I would prefer that my son not take steroids and I don't think anyone should. However, to send people to prison or the threat of it over using performance enhancing drugs is a little much....again that's just my opinion.
All these "hearings" and now these indictments, as well as all the media coverage over some steroid use? Give me a break. We help create the problem and what's even worse is the garbage we find newsworthy that entertains us. Right now Terrell Owens is being quiet and the Patriots are not "cheating" so Barry's roids are the big news in sports? Why can't the games themselves be enough? We have to trump up each game as some big "match-up" due to coaches not getting along...brothers competing, and on and on. It's much ado about nothing....just like steroids....and just like my rant in this post! Do you know how much steroids are prescribed and used legally every day? I don't. But I bet it's a lot!

sack316
11-22-2007, 01:01 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SKennedy:</font><hr> ... Do you know how much steroids are prescribed and used legally every day? I don't. But I bet it's a lot! <hr /></blockquote>

hmm, in trying to find a quick answer to this I came across THIS SITE (http://www.rxlist.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=79509) . I knew we were a society that was pretty dependant on drugs, but that's a huge list comrpised of only the top 300 Rx's! For those that don't look, apparently we are a pretty depressed country!

Sack (proudly helping Lexapro secure a #2 spot on our chart)