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sack316
11-20-2007, 11:07 PM
OK, it may be corny... but let us harken back to that uncomfortable moment around the dinner table and had to say what we were thankful for that year. Since we are an extended family to each other here, why not share that kind of moment with one another? Some of us may even learn we have more in common than we ever thought... or if nothing else we can get more ammo to throw at one another in some different threads /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I guess I'll begin:

I had another one of those crazy Johnny years in which I tried my best to destroy myself once again. Fell back into some old demons, hit a terrible level of depression, and had a relapse or two... or three. First and foremost I'm thankful to God, my family, and my friends who somehow never turned their back on me...even when I likely deserved it... and somehow found the strength to get back on the clean road. I'm nearly back at three months sober, and have learned (again) that staying sober is the only way my crazy ass can keep any form of positivity in my life. I suddenly once again see that there ARE possibilities in my life, and although I have managed to accomplish some things over the course of my days, I have the ability to accomplish so much more and have not yet even begun to see the limits of what I can be. For that, I am very thankful.

I am thankful to my new job. Even though it isn't the best job in the world and I make only a fraction of what I once was making earlier in the year... they are the only ones to look at my background check and give me a shot. That's something nobody else would do as I searched for work. I owe a debt of gratitude to this company, and know the only way I can pay them back for taking a chance on me is for me to do so much that they can't help but be thankful they took the gamble. I'm thankful for them, and for the fact that--for once-- I can actually appreciate the fact that somebody did something good for me without taking it for granted.

I'm also thankful that I finally got back into school. After nearly a decade of taking a semester off, I finally put up and did it. I'm thankful that my old school has adopted a program in which I can attend classes and have time to work my job, and that all my old credits actually transferred over!

I'm thankful that (with a lot of help) I have actually taken steps to improve my life, rather than just talking about it. It's a long road ahead, but I'm thankful for the journey and will take the destination when it comes.

I'm probably most thankful for my family and friends. Without them I'd have never stood a chance. I literally would have been without a home, if not for my wonderful parents helping me out... only after they saw I was serious about getting my act together of course. My Grandmother for paying for my school, which I could not even come close to affording on my own at present time. All she's ever wanted to see is for me to live up to my potential, and I only hope that I can pay her back by doing just that before her days are done. My friends, who quite literally saved my life many times this year by having the guts to take on drunken Johnny. At best I would have likely wound up in jail for quite some time for yet another DUI, at worst I'd be dead... if not for these friends who wreslted me away from driving on certain nights. Let me tell you, that is no easy task! And I probably owe a few of them some detailing for their cars as well. Also for them understanding why Sack had to abandon the pool teams... not only understanding but supporting my transition from a barfly to a work, school, and home body. And on top of that checking in with me regularly just to see how I'm doing. It may seem small to them, but it means a lot to me to know they care.

Also I'm thankful for the possible future Mrs. Sack, who would have been much better off leaving my sorry butt behind a few years ago, yet somehow has stuck by me through all things. Don't get me wrong, she makes me pay for all my mistakes... but the fact is she's still there, which in itself is nothing short of amazing.

And to all my family on here, many of you know a lot of deep personal things about me... and over the years have never stopped being there for me and supporting me when I needed it. You've seen me go from drunk to sober I don't know how many times now, but never has anybody on here treated me any different at any time... always with kindness and respect. I've said many times before what a special place this is, and what special people populate this board. Those that have been here forever know what I mean, and those who are new will find out. We should all be thankful for each other... differences and all there is not one bad person on here, and that's pretty important.

Overall, I'm thankful for my life in general. I honestly don't know what will come of it... if I'll make it this time or fall back into my old ways eventually. But all I do know is this: I have a chance. And for that, I am very thankful.

Sack

eg8r
11-21-2007, 06:56 AM
Hey Sack, I'll jump in... /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I am very thankful for quite a bit but I will just name a few. I am most thankful to my wife. She is the hardest, most dedicated person I know. She has spent almost this entire year raising our two children by herself from Monday through Thursday. I am in a job now that requires me to travel nearly 100% and this causes me to be away more than I ever would want to be. This has caused a lot of extra work for my wife but she has been awesome and has done a wonderful job.

I am also thankful for my two children. Haleigh is now 3 and my son Eddie is now 1. They both are the most beautiful children in the world.

There is a ton of other things that I am thankful for like family, a job, roof over my head, etc so I will relinquish the floor and give back the balance of my time. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r

dg-in-centralpa
11-21-2007, 09:33 AM
I'm thankful just to be alive. After surviving my illness back in 2005, I wake up each day and thank God that I'm on this side of the ground rather than the other. I'm thankful for the doctors who didn't know what to do for me but kept plugging away to keep me alive. There's more but I'll let the next person take it from here.

DG

SKennedy
11-21-2007, 09:58 AM
Sack, your post reminds me of a friend of mine who spent 2 terms in prison for DWI's. He always had female troubles (bad relationships), life was never fair to him, no matter what he tried to do or how hard he worked, etc., nothing ever went his way...blah, blah, blah. When he left for his last stint in prison he told me he really did not think he would survive. But he did. In fact, he quit drinking. He even quit smoking. He can still manage to curse pretty good though. Funny thing.....when he quit all that drinking and sobered up, he found him a "good" woman, a good job that he loves (and also works for less money but will not leave the job he loves), and finally has his own house with acreage and enjoying life and hobbies.

I'm thankful for all that I have and all that I am. I believe all of that comes from God. I am also thankful for the blessings bestowed upon you this year and also to my friend I just described. I always focus on the positive things in life, and while I could whine about past experiences and hardships, I don't because I actually consider myself very blessed. How can you be truly thankful when you are well-fed if you've never really been hungry?
Happy Thanksgiving to All of You!

wolfdancer
11-21-2007, 05:30 PM
I'm thankful for posters with an attitude and an ego..like the boys from AZB....makes me appreciate the rest of the people here, who are just sharing commentary, opinions,the little vignettes that make life interesting,and the occasional bawdry joke.....and feelthy photo.
In this instance the few "rotten apples" enhanced the rest of the board.
Sack is to be commended for his post...it's the kind of admission that you'll only hear at a support group meeting, and takes some courage to post it here.
I think just having good health, living pain free, a roof over my head, and a couple of bucks in the bank...is plenty for me to be thankful for.

LAMas
11-21-2007, 06:06 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> I'm thankful for posters with an attitude and an ego..like the boys from AZB.... <hr /></blockquote>

I'm thankful for Hondo for inviting the AZ conservatives over for some dialog - I never thought that the graphics would explode and tax my Laptop as well - thanks S0Noma - you are peerless.

wolfdancer
11-21-2007, 06:16 PM
a tip...don't read Sonoma's posts...I don't read any of LWW, Bama, or yours (made an exception here)
There's a big difference between being a conservative and just being an a-hole, .....maybe that style of posting went over big on AZB, and you three were the spiritual leaders....but I also understand you guys killed the board there...and you'll soon do that here.

Sid_Vicious
11-21-2007, 07:51 PM
The best duck to make Wolf is when you see the "A" and the hole of someone. Good call...sid~~~who says pool knowledge is useless

bamadog
11-21-2007, 11:56 PM
Sack, that was a great post.
I am thankful to you for your honesty and generosity in sharing it with us.
May you have a wonderful and loving Thanksgiving.
In my opinion it is the purest Holiday of the year.

hondo
11-22-2007, 07:42 AM
I thank God for my wife, children &amp; grandchildren.
I've had an interesting life and have been blessed
in many ways.
Happy Thanksgiving, everybody. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Vapros
11-22-2007, 12:29 PM
I'm thankful for the tremendous generosity of Wolfdancer, who interrupted this Thanksgiving thread to note that there is a difference between 'being a conservative and just being an a-hole.' I know that must have cost him. What a guy!

That said, I sincerely wish a good holiday for all of you.

wolfdancer
11-22-2007, 12:55 PM
I think living in them FEMA trailers down there...the formaldehyde is getting to your brain.... /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Vapros
11-22-2007, 01:13 PM
That was a pretty lame response, even for you. I didn't accuse you of anything except what you said. Now I'm out. No mud rassling today.

Again, Happy Thanksgiving to all!

wolfdancer
11-22-2007, 02:53 PM
I didn't like your reply either...but if you look at the icons, my reply was in jest.

SKennedy
11-22-2007, 06:16 PM
I'm also thankful for Vapros keeping a check on Wolfie so he doesn't run amok!! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
This thansgiving day is almost over....nice day..duck hunting in morning....spend day with wife and both kids! Can't complain, or won't...and glad to be alive!

S0Noma
11-23-2007, 01:27 AM
Nearly 15 years ago my oldest sister died suddenly of a heart attack leaving five children and husband behind. Her youngest son was eleven at the time.

They were attending a rather strict church at the time and her husband was a ranking member. Although he claimed to take his religious beliefs seriously it often appeared to the rest of us in the family that he was much better at saying than he was at doing. In other words? He didn't practice what he preached.

As the years passed following her death his treatment of the young children still in his care grew more and more abusive. By the time that eleven year old son was sixteen he and his father were at complete odds with each other. The father was distressed that his son was being rebellious and responded to his acting out by confining him to his room and forcing him to rise each morning at five a.m. to attend classes in religious training. They didn't help the situation and father and son grew more and more alienated from one another.

Finally, the father contacted me and asked if I would be willing to take his miscreant son into my home. He was fed up with the boy and made it very clear that he felt the kid was a lost cause and was going to h_ell. We were not in the market for another child but I considered the memory of my dead sister and what she would have wanted me to do. I knew that if I did not take the boy into my home his father was going to put him on the street.

So, my wife and I agreed. When he first arrived in our home he was suspicious and secretive. We made it clear to him that we had no religious expectations and were willing to give him nearly complete freedom to do as he wished as long as he paid attention to his school work. We made it clear that we cared very much for him and his future.

As time passed he put us to the test - during the day he came and went as he pleased but he attended his classes and did well in school. He made friends easily and was soon adjusting to life in new town.

We spent time sharing our educational philosophy with him - meaning that we were big proponents of higher education and wanted him to go beyond high school if he could. When he graduated from high school with honors I told him that he needed to make up his mind about going to college. Made it clear that if he wanted to go on that we would support him financially and in any other way we could. But that if he wasn't interested he should start looking for a job and shortly after that - another place to live.

He was one of five motherless children when he came to us but my wife became a mother to him and I became like a father. None of his siblings had been raised with the ambition of furthering their educations beyond high school. We made it clear to him that we felt his future depended on pursuing some form of training or a course of study that would give him sufficient value as a possible hire and the portent of a future.

He chose to go to college. We put our shoulders to the financial challenge and paid for him to have a four year education at a top notch California University. He graduated three years ago with a degree in economics. The first of my dead sisters kids to get a college degree. We were very proud of him - the kid who had come to us with the warning that he was 'hell bound' had, instead, shone brightly under the guidance of people who cared for him, loved him and supported him.

He was here today, celebrating Thanksgiving with his adopted sister and two brothers (our 'natural' kids). They all treat each other with respect and they have fully accepted him as another sibling. He calls me dad and my wife mom.

He told me today how much he loved me. Mentioned that he'd just gotten a promotion at work and would be earning a six figure salary after the first of the year working as a financial analyst at the tech company where he's been employed since he graduated from the University.

I couldn't ask for a better son than this young man. My departed sister would be so pleased to know what a fine human being he's grown up to be. He is loving and generous, intelligent and ambitious - he is well educated and able to take care of himself in the real world. He plans now to save some money and return to school for a graduate degree. I know he'll do it because he knows now how to set goals and reach them.

I am thankful that I chose to bring that 16 year old boy into my home and adopt him as one of my own. I am thankful that I ignored his hypocritical father's appraisal of a child who had so much to offer a family that was willing to give him unconditional love.

I'm thankful that he became the man that his mother would have wanted him to be. I am pleased to call him my son and I'm thankful for that as well.

Well... that's about it - except my list of things to be thankful for is really much, much longer than this. I just thought I'd pick one thing and talk about it a little.

Happy t-day (almost over now).

Sonoma

S0Noma
11-23-2007, 01:30 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote LAMas:</font><hr>
- thanks S0Noma - you are peerless. <hr /></blockquote>

You'd better believe it.

SKennedy
11-23-2007, 10:01 AM
SONoma,
I too had a similar father, but it was made more tolerable by my mother, who finally left him after 5 children (I was the oldest), and my maternal grandparents. He too was a very devout "man of God" and was exremely strict. He too did not practice what he preached to the point of extreme hypocracy. The last time I spoke to him was before my son was born....over 25 tears ago. I have made sure my relationship with my children is nothing like what I had.

I respect what you did for the young man and know that he will be forever grateful. Although we do not see eye-to-eye on religion and politics, I always enjoy your posts and respect your opinions. I have even more respect for you now.

sack316
11-23-2007, 10:42 AM
Sonoma,

thanks for that great story. I too have noticed the high level of hypocrisy in (extremely)religious people. Probably the reason I can count on my two hands the number of times I've been to a church service--- and instead choose to worship in my own way.

I wish more people in the world would raise their children in the manner of which you spoke. Seems to me as if you were hands on enough to be able to stay involved in their lives and teach them right from wrong, but at the same time allowing enough freedom for them to experience life and make their own mistakes to learn from coming up. In other words, a very good balance. I see too many people (friends who I grew up with, and friends who are parents now) that tend to be one extreme or the other. Either so strict and repressive that once the children are grown and get a taste of freedom that they've never had that they immediately go buck wild, or so lax in their raising that the kids have no idea about right and wrong or that there are consequences for their own actions.

So kudos to you... for taking on that great of a responsibility and raising him with the same love and respect that you did your own. His success and happiness is a direct reflection on what kind of people you and the Mrs. must be. So again, congrats and kudos!

Sack

Fran Crimi
11-23-2007, 11:10 AM
Not everybody in the world who is religious is an extremist. I'm kind of tired of seeing good and decent people being lumped together with nut cases.

Most people only judge by their own experiences. If the experience is bad then as far as they're concerned, religion is bad.

I was lucky enough to have grown up around religious people who actually practiced what they preached. They were good, kind and decent people. I wasn't alone in that, either. I had lots of friends who had the same experience as me.

In fact, my great aunt could have been a nun, she was so religious. She was also one of the kindest people I ever knew. Gee, what a surprise to all those religious people haters out there...kindness associated with religious practice!

Fran

Sid_Vicious
11-23-2007, 11:32 AM
SONoma,

There is no other explanation to your journey with that boy except to say, love. Could I have done it as well?, possibly, and I say that because even though I lead a basic selfish lifestyle, there have been periods where Sid was engulfed in his own Driven Purpose, and that need of oneself never goes away, it simply doesn't. You have the results to cherish whereas many others struggle with an on-going job of giving, and yet...they make things happen through other's lives each and every day. If God were to be more apparent in real life, I doubt that it is more apparenet than in your example. I respect you. sid

sack316
11-23-2007, 02:10 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr> Not everybody in the world who is religious is an extremist. I'm kind of tired of seeing good and decent people being lumped together with nut cases.

Most people only judge by their own experiences. If the experience is bad then as far as they're concerned, religion is bad.

I was lucky enough to have grown up around religious people who actually practiced what they preached. They were good, kind and decent people. I wasn't alone in that, either. I had lots of friends who had the same experience as me.

In fact, my great aunt could have been a nun, she was so religious. She was also one of the kindest people I ever knew. Gee, what a surprise to all those religious people haters out there...kindness associated with religious practice!

Fran <hr /></blockquote>

Fran, I think you may have misread or misunderstood what I said. Or perhaps I did not express my thought clearly enough... at any rate I apologize.

My comment, nor are my opinions, of any religion bad. In fact I do respect and support any persons beliefs. My comment was eluding to the fact of why for me personally a church has not been my optimum choice for worship. I never had a bad experience with any church, it was simply not something that worked for me personally. Also, I was not lumping all religious people together into one giant crackpot, I only referred to a some of the extremists out there.

In fact, my Grandmother is a devout Southern Baptist, her husband is a Lutheran Minister. I love and respect those two people more than most anybody in the world.

I just don't want you to misunderstand what I was saying, as it appears you did.

Sack

S0Noma
11-23-2007, 02:17 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Sid_Vicious:</font><hr> SONoma,

You have the results to cherish whereas many others struggle with an on-going job of giving, and yet...they make things happen through other's lives each and every day. sid <hr /></blockquote>

One of the key secrets to my success and happiness in life has been to always try and give more than I get. In reality, it cost us nothing to open our hearts and our home to that motherless child compared to what we've gotten in return.

How can you ever measure the value of loving and being loved in return? It really is priceless.

S0Noma
11-23-2007, 02:24 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr> Not everybody in the world who is religious is an extremist. I'm kind of tired of seeing good and decent people being lumped together with nut cases.

Most people only judge by their own experiences. If the experience is bad then as far as they're concerned, religion is bad.

I was lucky enough to have grown up around religious people who actually practiced what they preached. They were good, kind and decent people. I wasn't alone in that, either. I had lots of friends who had the same experience as me.

In fact, my great aunt could have been a nun, she was so religious. She was also one of the kindest people I ever knew. Gee, what a surprise to all those religious people haters out there...kindness associated with religious practice!

Fran <hr /></blockquote>

Fran,

Lumping all religious people together and labeling them 'bad' would be as absurd as claiming that without God in their lives atheists have no moral compass.

In spite of what some folks may think to the contrary - we don't live in a 'one size fits all' world. It might be useful if we were to let go of the stereotypes so many of us cling to and try applying a little complex thinking to our problem solving efforts instead.

Hope this helps.

Sonoma

Fran Crimi
11-23-2007, 02:55 PM
Do you really want to help? Then how about drawing attention to religious people who are truly good people once in awhile? Would it kill you to start a thread about good religious people for a change? You guys focus on the extremists as often as I change socks. Everytime I look here, you're condemning some religious extremist for something.

Go ahead, then. Let's see you help. You offered.

Fran

bamadog
11-23-2007, 03:02 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote S0Noma:</font><hr> SONoma,

<hr /></blockquote>

One of the key secrets to my success and happiness in life has been to always try and give more than I get. In reality, it cost us nothing to open our hearts and our home to that motherless child compared to what we've gotten in return.





<hr /></blockquote>

And yet you continue to be rude and self-aggrandizing.
LAMas, a decent and polite guy, and someone you continually refer to as "Lameass", paid you a nice compliment. And you didn't even have the graciousness to say thank you.

I only hope that your kids get their manners from your wife, because in that dept. you're not much of a role model.

Fran Crimi
11-23-2007, 03:17 PM
Sack, I'm glad to hear you've had positive experiences with religious people as well. I don't consider myself a religious person, but I know an awful lot of them who are great people.

I am sure as rain that there are people who would be very happy to see 'extremism' as the buzz word that gets associated with religion. You may not be one of 'em, Sack, but I'd sure hate to see you as an unrealizing contributor.

Fran

sack316
11-24-2007, 12:50 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr> Sack, I'm glad to hear you've had positive experiences with religious people as well. I don't consider myself a religious person, but I know an awful lot of them who are great people.

I am sure as rain that there are people who would be very happy to see 'extremism' as the buzz word that gets associated with religion. You may not be one of 'em, Sack, but I'd sure hate to see you as an unrealizing contributor.

Fran <hr /></blockquote>

Not my intentions at all my dear. I do not wish to ever push onto others anything that I myself cannot claim to understand. With so many religions, beliefs, etc. out there, I am the first to admit that I am not the one to say what is right or wrong. I in fact think there is good (as well as bad) in each and every belief. The main thing to me is that everyone should believe in something... and what that "something" is should be entirely up to that individual.

As you know, I am a member of AA. It's what works for me and is the closest thing to religion that I am. I do consider myself a very spititual person, and I think AA does a lot of wonderful things for many people. BUT, at the same time I do not take offense when somebody calls it a cult of sorts, or thinks that AA is a bunch of crazy yahoos going on and on about whatever. To each their own, some people wil find it and love it, some people will find it and think it is an utter joke. Each is welcome to their thoughts and opinions, and I respect each person's... whether it is the same as mine or not.

Sack

wolfdancer
11-24-2007, 01:29 AM
I am a member of AA.
After graduating, I joined AAA and AARP ......

Fran Crimi
11-24-2007, 07:57 AM
Good post, Sack. Aren't the roots of AA formed through faith and a belief in a higher power?

One of the things I've noticed about certain people who continually shout about extremeists is their own lack of faith; and by focusing on the extreme, they are justifying their position to themselves.

Fran

S0Noma
11-24-2007, 10:31 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr> Good post, Sack. Aren't the roots of AA formed through faith and a belief in a higher power?

One of the things I've noticed about certain people who continually shout about extremeists is their own lack of faith; and by focusing on the extreme, they are justifying their position to themselves.

Fran <hr /></blockquote>

Oh my. Yes, Fran 'extremists' and 'lack of faith' must certainly ALWAYS go hand in hand. It DOES help to justify their position.

Or does it?

<font color="blue"> </font color>
Some Well-known Believers and Their Comments on Religion
by Jon Nelson

Secular schools can never be tolerated because such schools have no religious instruction, and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith... We need believing people -- Adolf Hitler

We have religion to keep the poor from murdering the rich -- Napoleon Bonaparte

One day I met a lady who was dying of cancer in a most terrible condition. And I told her, I say, "You know, this terrible pain is only the kiss of Jesus — a sign that you have come so close to Jesus on the cross that he can kiss you." And she joined her hands together and said, "Mother Teresa, please tell Jesus to stop kissing me. -- Mother Theresa

The rivers of America will run with blood before they take our holy, God-inspired Bible from the schools -- Billy Sunday

Hitler's war is a noble undertaking in defense of European culture -- Cardinal Baudrillart, July 30, 1941

Mussolini is a wonderful man. Do you hear me? A wonderful man -- Pope Pius XI, to writer Luc Valti

For the first time ever, everything is in place for the Battle of Armageddon and the second coming of Christ -- Ronald Reagan

* "I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over you... I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good... Our goal is a Christian nation. We have a biblical duty, we are called by God, to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want pluralism." August 16, 1993.

* "When I, or people like me, are running the country, you’d better flee, because we will find you, we will try you and we will execute you." ["reportedly said of doctors who perform abortions"] 1995.

* "The foundation of Operation Rescue is a call to people and the Church to repent. The Church has sinned before God by allowing children to be ripped apart and mothers to be exploited. We have sat idly by and have done virtually nothing." September 1998. -- Randall Terry, Operation Rescue

What profit has not that fable of Christ brought us! -- Pope Leo X

No one need think that the world cannot be ruled without blood. The civil sword can and must be red and bloody -- Martin Luther

Be fiercely angry against thyself, and suffer no pride to dwell in thee, but show thyself so humble, so very small, that all may be able to walk over thee, and to tread thee down as the mire of the streets -- Thomas A Kempis

The bliss of the elect in heaven would not be perfect unless they were able to look across the abyss and enjoy the agonies of their brethren in eternal fire -- Pope Gregory I (the Great)

The Supreme Court of the United States of America is an institution damned by God almighty -- Jimmy Swaggart, televangelist

God has revealed to me that those doing battle for Allah and our country and meeting death will immediately go to heaven -- Ayatollah Khomeini

The idea the religion and politics don't mix was invented by the devil to keep Christians from running their own country -- Jerry Falwell

God is on our side, and Satan is on the side of the United States -- Saddam Hussein

The "Wall of separation between church and State" is a metaphor based on bad history, a metaphor that has proved useless as a guide to judging. It should be frankly and explicitly abandoned -- William Rehnquist, Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court

Reason must be deluded, blinded, and destroyed -- Martin Luther

Use against heretics the spiritual sword of excommunication, and if this does not prove effective, use the material sword -- Pope Innocent III

Christian soldiers are to wage the war of Christ their master without fearing that they sin in killing their enemies... If they kill it is to the profit of Christ; if they die it is to their own -- St. Bernard

The Catholic faith, indeed, wishes that devils should be something, and should be able to injure by their works -- St. Thomas Aquinas

Women, you ought to go about clad in mourning and rays, your eyes filled with tears of remorse, to make us forget you have been mankind's destruction. Woman, you are the gate to hell -- St. Tertullian

If my own father were a heretic, I would personally gather the wood to burn him -- Pope Paul IV

From the polluted fountain of indifferentianism flows that absurd and erroneous doctrine, or rather raving, which claims and defends liberty of conscience for everyone. From this comes, in a word, the worst plague of all--liberty of opinions and free speech -- Pope Gregory VI

(On dealing with "This depraved and damned people of the Jews") First, to set fire to their synagogues or schools... Second, I advise that their houses also be razed and destroyed... Third, I advise that all their prayer books and Talmudic writings, in which such adultery, lies, cursing, and blasphemy are taught, be taken from them... Fourth, I advise that their Rabbis be forbidden to teach henceforth on pain of loss of life and limb... Fifth, I advise that safe-conduct on the highways be abolished completely for the Jews... Sixth, I advise that... all cash and treasure of silver and gold be taken from them... Seventh... Let whosoever can, throw brimstone and pitch upon them, so much the better... and if this be not enough, let them be driven like mad dogs out of the land... lest we partake in their abominable blasphemy and vices, deserving God's wrath and be damned along with them. I have done my part. Let every man look to doing his. My hands are clean -- Martin Luther

(In reference to the Jews) I'd tear the tongues out of their throats. The Jews, in a word, should not be tolerated -- Martin Luther

Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet -- Napoleon Bonaparte

Giving up witchcraft is, in effect, giving up the Bible -- John Wesley

There is not one verse in the Bible inhibiting slavery, but many regulating it. It is not then, we conclude, immoral -- Alexander Campbell, 19th century church founder

Let the gentlemen go to Revelation to learn the decree of God--let him go to the Bible and not to the report of the decisions of the courts. I said that slavery was sanctioned in the Bible, authorized, regulated, and recognized from Genesis to Revelation... Slavery existed then in the earliest ages, and among the chosen people of God; and in Revelation we are told that it shall exist till the end of time shall come. You find it in the Old and New Testaments--in the prophecies, psalms, and the epistles of Paul; you find it recognized--sanctioned everywhere -- Jefferson Davis, President of the Confederacy

The hydrogen bomb is not the greatest danger of our time. After all, the most it could do would be to transfer vast numbers of human beings from this world to another and more vital one into which they would some day go anyway -- Archbishop of Canterbury, 1954

I hope I live to see the day when, as in the early days of our country, we won't have any public schools. The churches will have taken them over again and Christians will be running them. What a happy day that will be! -- Jerry Falwell

The strategy against the American radical left should be the same as General Douglas MacArthur employed against the Japanese in the Pacific... Blast the individuals out of their power bunkers with hand-to-hand combat. The battle to regain the soul of America won't be pleasant, but we will win it! -- Pat Robertson
</font color> web page (http://www.atheistalliance.org/library/nelson-well-known_believers.php)

S0Noma
11-24-2007, 04:08 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bamadog:</font><hr> [
And yet you continue to be rude and self-aggrandizing.
LAMas, a decent and polite guy, and someone you continually refer to as "Lameass", paid you a nice compliment. And you didn't even have the graciousness to say thank you.

<hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue"> First off, Bambi, Lameass was NOT paying me a 'nice compliment'. Unless he was complimenting me for 'graphics that explode and tax his laptop'. Give me a break , Bambi. Compliment? My A$$!

http://i18.tinypic.com/6ldelhs.jpg

That was a less than veiled criticism, Bambi and innuendo. Learn to tell the difference. Oh wait, you have that 'reading comprehension problem' that I've mentioned in another thread, right? You're excused.

Now, why would I consider your 'decent and polite guy' friend to be lame?

Well... let's go back in time to another thread. Here's one of his 'nice guy comments' about me - if you read carefully (for you this may mean six to eight times) he's implying that I'm a liar &amp; for what? Why for opening the thread in the first place. Uh huh, that makes sense - not. :

http://i12.tinypic.com/8723vq8.jpg

No explanation - just that I must have been 'lying' and therefore by implication? I assume he wants everyone to believe that I am 'a liar'? What other conclusion can be drawn from this inference?

In that same thread we have him 'going to the source' of one of my links and discovering that a cartoon that I've posted has been copyrighted and has apparently been taken without permission from a site that uses (heaven forbid!) the word 'queer' in its logo "Politically InQueerect Comics 1.10":

http://i9.tinypic.com/6ydpcf8.jpg

It sure looks like he's implying that I'm using the author's cartoon without his permission. Breaking the law as it were. Yet, later when I asked him for clarification? He fails to respond. It reminded me of your unsuccessful effort to charge me with plagiarism in an entirely different thread. No proof here either - just innuendo.

You smear boys love innuendo and false accusation. I get it.

http://i11.tinypic.com/6kk0c1y.jpg

Which told me that while he likes to make veiled accusations and innuendos if he thinks they will discredit his opponent but he's not man enough to stand up for what he's implied when pressed.

Bambi - in MY BOOK that's just plain LAME. Hence the nickname.

Hope this helps.

Sonoma


</font color>

SKennedy
11-25-2007, 02:40 PM
Fran, as I stated before, my father was a "religious" fanatic. He has estranged all five of his children, 2 wives extremists, and any friends he may have ever had. And yes, I do feel sorry for him. His problem has nothing to do with religion....it's just him (crazy)! He is the problem. I am a chrisitian. However, I can say that for some time I was turned off by certain things including attending church, that I feel was a result of my father.
My point is that as an extremists he did more damage to the christian church than any aetheist I know. Regardless, any decision I have regarding christianity only has to do with me and my creator....no one else. SONoma is right in the fact that there are many aetheists and agnostics who have as much "moral bearing or compass" as any others....and sometimes more. However, IMO religion's true or primary purpose is not to provide a moral compass. That just happens to be one of the outcomes.
Religion or not, poor or rich, black or white....there are plenty of bad apples to go around in every group.
Bottom line for me.....Each and every Thanksgiving I give thanks to my God for all that I have and all that I am.

S0Noma
11-25-2007, 03:32 PM
Skennedy,

Two of my closest male friends are very religious. One is a Deacon in the Catholic Church and the other is the Protestant minister who married my wife and I thirty years ago. They are both fine examples of first rate human beings - we three get along like loving brothers. They have no problem with my atheism and I have no problem with their God belief because we love one another unconditionally.

You sir, sound like a man that I could easily come to call friend. Should the time ever arise that we should meet? I think we would get along just fine.

Good response to Fran - there is wisdom in your words and I enjoyed reading them.

Sonoma

SKennedy
11-25-2007, 06:55 PM
Thank you, but not sure about the wisdom part. LOL
I try to get along with anyone who is respectful of others and there is no criteria that they believe like I do. I'm glad you have such good friends. Not sure I really love anyone in a truly and complete unconditional way...closest would be my wife and kids. But, I believe God loves me that way.
And yes, I think we would get along just fine....as I would expect to do with just about anyone on this forum.