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07-31-2002, 07:48 AM
Hi fellow CCBers! /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

I was recently and very unexpectedly laid off from my job. I've decided to make the most of the opportunity by becoming a league operator (I'm leaning towards TAP), something that I had been thinking about doing for quite awhile anyway.

There are already two fairly strong leagues in town - BCA and VNEA - and the difficult part will be convincing the players to add another league night to their weekly schedule. TAP will bring a completely different league experience to the players than what they are used to, and that in itself is a good selling point. But I also want to add perks... do extra things that only a league operator that cares about the players and their sponsors would do. But I need ideas.

What do some of your league operators do to make your league better than the others?

Any and all input will be greatly appreciated!

Karla

07-31-2002, 08:00 AM

Doctor_D
07-31-2002, 08:02 AM
Good morning Karla:

I am most inclined to agree with Whitewolf's opinion. Several teams I know switched from APA to TAP and, following many issues as stated in the aforementioned post, switched back to APA.

Dr. D.

Rich R.
07-31-2002, 08:14 AM
Karla, I was going to send you this in a private message, but Whitewolf jumped right into the subject of sandbagging in TAP and I have to agree. I played one session in a Tap league and I could not believe all of the sandbagging going on. I personally played against players that were SL-4's in TAP on Monday night and on Wednesday night they were SL-7's in the APA. One such player had a win/loss record of 12 and 0 and never waivered from the SL-4 rating in TAP. I believe a lot of it is due to flaws in their scoring system, which is used to determine ratings.
JMHO. Rich R.~~~won't be playing in a TAP league anytime soon.

bluewolf
07-31-2002, 09:11 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: whitewolf:</font><hr> In 1999, our team from Rockville, MD won the whole thing at the dream team competition at Valley Forge, but I am not proud at all of this accomplishment. I got to see players from all over the country, and I was disgusted. There were some APA 7s playing as 3s. The main reason we won was pure luck. Plus the TAP 25 point rule cuts out the new pool players (2s and 3s) trying to get in a league.

You should try the APA.

I agree that the APA tries to eliminate the problem of sandbagging. they watch the players pretty close, their wins and innings. every sport has sandbaggers. in apa some captains are better at playing fair than others.

the last time i played i was a 2 and was put up against a 4 who was obviously a 5. shortly after that the place we were playing closed so i didnt get an opportunity to move up to a 3.

bluewolf

=k=
07-31-2002, 09:47 AM
karla here are a few ideas. run a few ads for beginner players, try one in the personel's as a good way to meet people and very reasonalbe entertainment. newer leagues play for trophies... lots of them two mvp's for each team. as the leagues progress, change to money.. only top four teams to compete for session championship.. we have one team, that is full of sandbaggers so bad they are not in top four but fourth team is a draw and when they win it they have no problem taking first place.. their worst player is a four due to he is not good enough to sandbag down to a three.. above all else check in on the teams now and then and watch for sandbaggers.. when a three is making about 75 percent of bank shots, waiting till opponent is down to last couple of balls then running out, gives you a pretty good idea of what is happening. as you can probly tell my only complaint in league play is sandbagging.. of course my favorite time is after league play and i can play some of the better players..

stickman
07-31-2002, 10:07 AM
Karla, One of the things that I really liked about the league I played in one year was that all matches were played in one pool hall. We no longer do this due to politics. I liked it better than traveling all over to different bars. Some of the bars were pretty sleazy and the equipment was poor. The pool hall owner had a special night each session for the league players. The pool hall was only open to league players and free tables and snacks were provided. It was a fun night for all. They called it league appreciation night. Maybe you could work out something with a hall owner like this.

I hope this thread doesn't turn into a APA vs Tap dispute. I'm sure each have their pluses and minuses, and that's not what you were asking for.

07-31-2002, 11:26 AM

Rich R.
07-31-2002, 11:43 AM
I agree with you totally Stickman. I choose not to play in travel leagues. I haven't found one that provides free food and/or drinks /ccboard/images/icons/frown.gif , but that is fine. I just like playing in the same pool room every week and not having to worry what type of neighborhood I'm going to. I have heard some real horror stories about travel leagues.
Rich R.~~~also prefers 9' tables.

stickman
07-31-2002, 12:08 PM
I guess you're right. I overlooked that. Anyway, I still hope the thread doesn't deteriorate into the TAP/APA debate. Some folks have very strong feelings on each side, and I've seen some discussions turn pretty ugly on the subject. I would suggest that she look closely at the leagues available and what is offered, but that's all I'll say. /ccboard/images/icons/wink.gif

07-31-2002, 12:11 PM
Thank you, all of your replies are very much appreciated. I should have worded things differently, though. I know the pros and cons of APA and TAP, and have been weighing them carefully. At this point, TAP is winning...

All leagues have problems with sandbaggers, and I believe that it is the operators responsibility to make sure they know what is going on in their league and to keep sandbagging out as much as possible. This is true in TAP, APA or any other league.

I do intend to have in-house divisions, but will have more travelling divisions due to the lack of rooms/bars with multiple tables.

The whole point of my post is that I want to do special things for the players and rooms. For instance, each session a team may be selected by some criteria and will receive limo service to one weeks' match. I also intend to give out t-shirts and other paraphernalia randomly or through drawings, and may even have a cue drawing every session.

So let me rephrase my question: What has your league operator done for you as a player, or your room as a team sponsor, that was over and above the normal operator duties?

Thanks again!
Karla

07-31-2002, 12:30 PM

07-31-2002, 01:48 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Karla_in_IA:</font><hr>
So let me rephrase my question: What has your league operator done for you as a player, or your room as a team sponsor, that was over and above the normal operator duties?

<hr></blockquote>

Our LO has a yearly captain's meeting (for discussing rule changes etc.) with door prizes (autographed cue balls, jackets etc.) with a "captains only" tournament. Nice gesture for the captains (captain is a thankless job /ccboard/images/icons/tongue.gif)

As far as sandbagging in APA, it's possible to sandbag down maybe one skill level if you try hard but no more than that IMO.

If you do go thru with this check back with CCB. I'm sure you can get more than enough ideas from this group /ccboard/images/icons/laugh.gif

Good luck,

PoolFan
07-31-2002, 01:51 PM
I haven't played in a league in years, but when I did the room I played in did the following which I liked.

1. One night a week, a slow night like Wednesday, the room had a fixed price of $6 from 6PM to close.

2. A dollar of our weekly dues went into a pot. If someone made the eight on the break during their match, they won the pot. If there was money in the pot at the end of the league it was split between the teams that placed.

3. At the end of the season, the room would have Chinese food brought in for a buffet and awards were handed out.

One idea I like, is a weekly break and run pot. Every week you sell tickets for an opprotunity for a break &amp; run. Each week you select one player to attempt to break &amp; run a rack of 10-ball. For each legal ball pocketed, the player receives 10% of what's in the pot. The pot carries over from one week to the next. This generates a lot of interest, especially when the pot grows large. Think of it, if the pot is $300 and the player only pockets 1 ball they get $30. Lots of players would try to get a chance at the easy money.

07-31-2002, 02:09 PM
Karla,
I think one of the things that you can do as a league operator is to organize tournaments for the players in your league system. We have had tournaments that were for singles, teams, and even some charity events. It does a league really good if you can bring the players together in some weekend competition. I am the league op for the Pennsylvania BCA (a player run league). This year we are working on inter-divisional playoffs that potentially will be able to send a winning team to Vegas. I cannot speak for the other league systems, but I have found that sandbagging in the BCA is pretty tough to do, since handicaps are figured mathematicly by how many balls you pocket. Also newsletters are a good way to promote and keep interest in your league. Hope that this helps....

bluewolf
07-31-2002, 02:21 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: whitewolf:</font><hr> I haven't seen many discussions/wars on APA/TAP etc. Been here since ~03/01/02. Will take your word for it though and try not to bring it up again. Now let's get on with helping Karla. <hr></blockquote>

Well I must plead ignorance on this one. The only league I have experienced is the APA.

The only TAP(TOtal Action Against Poverty) &lt;G&gt;

bluewolf

=k=
08-01-2002, 01:51 PM
in our leauge we have a team that in the last 6 months that has had a sl-6 go to a 3, the sl-5 to a 3 and new player shoots average 5 stay a 3 the poorest player is a 4 due to not being able to set up shots.. if you care to you can send me a personel message and i will explain how they do it.. k

Wally_in_Cincy
08-01-2002, 02:16 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: =k=:</font><hr> in our leauge we have a team that in the last 6 months that has had a sl-6 go to a 3, the sl-5 to a 3 and new player shoots average 5 stay a 3 the poorest player is a 4 due to not being able to set up shots.. if you care to you can send me a personel message and i will explain how they do it.. k <hr></blockquote>

That was my post above yours. I wasn't logged in.

OK I'm not saying it can't be done. It is usually difficult though. In our league everybody has a pretty good idea of how everybody else plays. If someone's doggin' it the other players will complain and the LO will adjust accordingly. Sounds like your LO is not paying attention.

If a player is good enough to hide his skill like that and still win, he needs to be playing at a higher level than the APA.
JMHO