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Drop1
12-03-2007, 02:31 PM
Twenty five percent of all new high tech.companies,between 1996,and 2006,were started by Immigrants. Twenty seven per cent of all new patents issued in 2006,in the U.S.,were issued to immigrants. Its starting to look like the best,and the brightest,are coming out of our growing immigrant population. This is just further proof how important it is,that we keep them out.

bamadog
12-03-2007, 02:50 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Drop1:</font><hr> Twenty five percent of all new high tech.companies,between 1996,and 2006,were started by Immigrants. Twenty seven per cent of all new patents issued in 2006,in the U.S.,were issued to immigrants. Its starting to look like the best,and the brightest,are coming out of our growing immigrant population. This is just further proof how important it is,that we keep them out. <hr /></blockquote>



I hope you are being facetious.

SKennedy
12-03-2007, 03:20 PM
Were these immigrants legal or illegal? I suspect they were legal.

Drop1
12-03-2007, 09:14 PM
Legal,and well educated,by and large,in the States.

SKennedy
12-04-2007, 10:41 AM
There is an example of one of these legal immigrants here where I work. He is from Germany and was a very sucessful engineer making very good money. As a child, his father was conscripted into Hitler's army. He did not see his dad for over 3 years and he was separated from his mother and thought she was dead for almost 2 years. The Russians placed him into a camp, where he was later released by the Americans near the end of the war. When the American GI's found him, he was freezing and starving. Of course, they took care of him and reunited him with his mother, etc. He left Germany about 20 years ago. He worked here and was grossly underpaid at first for his abilities. Since then, he got his registration as an engineer in Texas, and has more responsibility and pay. His wife and he became US citizens about 7 years ago. It was one of the biggest days in their lives. They are more patriotic and appreciative of being a US citizen than most US born citizens I know. They have seen and lived the alternative and didn't like it. Hermann's wife died about 1 year ago from cancer. According to Hermann, she would have died years ago if they had remained in Germany due to socialized medicine, and he is grateful for US medicine extending the duration and quality of her life. He is an individual who is truly thankful to be an American! I feel fortunate to know him. He would give his life for his new country. He is happy that his daughter was partially raised here and very happy that his grandson was born in the U.S.
I'd always welcome this type of immigrant. I welcome those who come here to improve their lives and abide by our laws.....just as my ancestors did.

S0Noma
12-04-2007, 11:19 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SKennedy:</font><hr> He is happy that his daughter was partially raised here and very happy that his grandson was born in the U.S.
I'd always welcome this type of immigrant. I welcome those who come here to improve their lives and abide by our laws.....just as my ancestors did. <hr /></blockquote>

Good post. I've seen this pattern repeated many times. One of my favorite examples was a friend of mine from the nearby Napa Valley, Hans Kornell.

Hans was born a German Jew. Near the beginning of WWII he was arrested and held in Dachau concentration camp. His family was able to win his release, whereupon he fled to England. By the end of the war the family he had left behind had all be killed by the Nazis.

Hans migrated to the US, arriving with only a few dollars in his pocket and a recipe for making sparkling wine that had been in his family for many generations. He made his way to the West coast settling in the vine rich Napa Valley. There he worked and saved until he had enough money to start his own winery.

Hans build the winery from nearly nothing in 1948 to a multi-million dollar dollar operation at the time of his death in the late 1980's. At one point in time the Kornel Champagne cellars were on par in sales and distribution with the better known Korbel Champagne producers of my county.

There are countless stories of first-generation Americans who have come here with nothing and built a fortune for themselves while improving the lives of those around them.

There is something about coming from a place where conditions were horrible and opportunities few and far between to a country where opportunities abound. What I have seen that distinguishes these immigrants is their willingness to work long hours and do whatever it takes to succeed. In some ways, because of their intense ambition and strong work ethic they often out compete us 'softer' Americans.

This country is a melting pot - our families all immigrated here at one time or another - it's only a matter of when. It's the strength of character and work ethic that those immigrants brought with them that built this country into what it is today. Matter of fact? They're still coming and they're still helping to build.

I think this is a good thing.

SKennedy
12-04-2007, 01:50 PM
I really hate to keep saying this to a leftist liberal, but I agree. And, I'm sober!

wolfdancer
12-04-2007, 02:35 PM
"I really hate to keep saying this to a leftist liberal, but I agree"
It's the first step of your 12 step program. Upon completing the program, you'll become a registered Democrat, and be able to vote for Hillary!!!!

S0Noma
12-04-2007, 02:48 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SKennedy:</font><hr> I really hate to keep saying this to a leftist liberal, but I agree. And, I'm sober! <hr /></blockquote>

There's more to that story. Hans was a hard worker but he had some serious flaws. One was that he was family oriented to the point of being paranoid and the other was that he wasn't flexible enough to change his business with the times and remain competitive.

He and his wife had two children late in life, a son Peter, and a daughter, Paula. Both Peter and Paula grew up with silver spoons in their mouths and weren't worth the powder to blow them away. In short, by dent of their father's hard work and success they were spoiled rich kids - second generation Americans with too much money and too much free time.

Peter went to Fresno State to study enology (wine making) and viticulture - and flunked out. Paula also dropped out of school but not before developing a penchant for late night parties filled with sex and cocaine.

A funny thing happened when the wine industry took off around here - based on high sales and high income combined with a mystique that surrounds wine making many of the local winery owners ascended to the level of pseudo-aristocrats. Sadly, the Kornels were no exception.

When I was called in to do a marketing study of their winery the Kornels were in serious financial trouble. The sparkling wine business had changed and competition from other producers had increased. In addition, the American consumer had become more sophisticated and was beginning to tell the difference between good wines and bad.

The sparkling wine that Hans had been making and selling was made from very cheap grapes and as a result his profit margins were quite high. His competitors introduced champagnes made with pinot noir and chardonnay in the traditional French fashion while Hans kept buying Thompson's seedless grapes from low-cost Central Valley producers. The public noticed the difference.

Suddenly, Hans's business had changed from one that was production driven (could sell everything he made regardless of what the public wanted) to market driven (couldn't just make it and sell it all without giving the public the quality it was looking for). Unfortunately, Hans didn't notice or couldn't accept the change.

There years before they called me in to help them try to unravel the mess, Hans borrowed two million dollars from a local bank and expanded his wine making capacity. His decision to expand on producing a product with declining demand was ill advised. Particularly considering that he was unwilling to let go of his old production driven methods - sales began to plummet.

He fired sales people. He fired his cellar master. If anyone who worked for him deigned to suggest that a change was in order and that they could help turn the winery around? He flew into a rage and accused them of trying to 'steal the family business' - then he fired them.

When I arrived, Hans was 70 years old and in failing health. He had fired his cellar master of thirty years and hired his enology drop-out son Peter to replace him. He fired the head of the marketing department and hired his cokewhore daughter Paula as 'Vice President of Marketing'. Gave her a hundred thousand dollar expense account which she exhausted in four months -

He kept his wife and kids close to him and refused to listen to any criticism of their competence.

Peter, when presented with the facts detailing changes in the industry that pointed towards Kornel's need to change, responded that he could see no reason to change the way his father had always done things - because they had always worked. Then he went back to the wine cellars where he'd spend the day screaming at the workers about how incompetent they were and why it was their fault that the wine wasn't selling.

I had regular meetings with Paula as VP Marketing and her mother regarding perspective problems with their wine sales and marketing methods. I lost track of how many of those meetings were canceled prematurely so that Paula and Marie Louis could flee in their matching Mercedes to the local hair salon to have their nails done. Stress did that to them - made them feel like they were having a bad hair day.

When the time came to change or die? They didn't change. Sales continued to drop and Hans health continued to fail. They fell behind on their payments on the bank loan and the bank foreclosed on the winery.

THEN? This was the capper. Once the bank foreclosed and the pseudo-aristocratic former wine scions were out in the cold they turned to the local newspaper to profess their plight. According to them, it was all the bank's fault. Apparently it was the Snidely Whiplash Bank of the Napa Valley and they hadn't noticed the name when they borrowed all that money.

The newspaper ran several articles including personal interviews with the Kornels describing their ill treatment at the hands of the bank and their helplessness in the face of that treatment.

Never once did I see mention of borrowing to expand when they shouldn't have - hiring incompetent relatives to man/woman critical winery jobs or ignoring the advice of trained professionals while burying their collective heads in the sand (grapes?).

So it goes - the values of the first generation immigrant don't always carry over to the second generation - particularly once prosperity and the lack of incentive that can sometimes accompany it raises its ugly head. Read that: rich kids raised without any unmet material wants and needs do not have the same incentive to work as hard as their once broke just out of a Nazi concentration camp, whole family dead in the Holocaust - come to America to build a new life, dad.

true story.

Sonoma

ps. leftist liberal? try maverick - it suits me better.

SKennedy
12-04-2007, 03:59 PM
It is a shame when someone with intelligence can be so blind to the facts, especially when it comes to family and their own egos. Usually it's the 3rd generation that does most of the damage.

And you mean the media presented biased information....or presented a one-sided story?

Unfortunately, I think the majority of us today represent Han's children very well. Otherwise, who would care a twit about Paris Hilton?

Enjoyed the story. It was also revealing about you. Politics aside, you're not so dumb after all! LOL /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I met a guy here in Texas who is from California. He has his own supply company that is associated with my line of work. Four of us went out one night when we were all in Austin about 2 or 3 years ago. He really knew his wines. I didn't have a clue. I think this guy has traveled to and was very familiar with most of the wineries in that area. I think he bought 10 bottles of wine that night and the cheapest bottle was still over $100. He knew all the details for each type of wine he purchased. It was also my first time to eat sushi. It was a big night for me. I graduated from Boone's Farm and ate raw fish...all in the same night...also ate raw soy beans. For an east Texas country boy, that's living the high life! I just hope none of my red neck duck hunting buddies find out I've been "sophisticated." They'd start treating me differently.