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HarryDC
12-05-2007, 05:01 AM
WHO WILL INVEST IN WPBA POOL?

Pool is not a sport itís a crooked game played on crooked tables, with nonstandard pockets, with anything goes rules and no referees. In the WPBA ladies case pool is a show (entertainment) not a sport. 9-ball and 10-ball are nothing but games of chance just
like poker and blackjack.

Who has time to be a spectator at a 3 day or 4 day or 7 day tournament? Retirees, people out of work, the very rich? Who! I spent 4 days at 3 WPBA tournaments and if it wasnít
for Karen Corr, Sarah Ellerby, Tiffany Nelson and Kim Shaw I would have never flown
1,200 miles to see them play.

Who outside the pool industry will invest in the WPBA beside the casinos they play in?

Most of the worldís fortune 500 companies target product buyers between the ages of 18 to 34 years of age. You wonít find many people that age in casinos with the casino connotation of gambling, alcohol, drugs and prostitution.

Has the WPBA ever made a public stock offering? I am sure it would be worthless to anyone in the average main stream. Maybe a hotel corporation could invest in WPBA,
I think that may have been tried in the past, poor KT found out what a loser pool is no one watches except the people who play it.

Maybe the lady players who think itís so smart to incorporate them selves should invest in WPBA? How about Ginn Corp and Walt Disney? How about the pro pool players filing for charity and accepting donations?

$90,000.00 in prize money is about the fine money for one week of pro football and I think that goes to charity. Isnít pool ashamed of such a paltry figure? Lets see $90,000.00
divided by 64 players come out to $1,406.25 for each player which is about my grocery bill each month

Pool is nothing but a shell game played on a table by people who only think of themselves. If you donít believe me ask KT! Only 5 players out of 200 thanked him for his dough and the rest had some scheme to use his money to get rich. He He He If your fool enough to invest in pool you deserve what you get.

Rich R.
12-05-2007, 08:46 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote HarryDC:</font><hr> WHO WILL INVEST IN WPBA POOL?

Pool is not a sport itís a crooked game played on crooked tables, with nonstandard pockets, with anything goes rules and no referees. In the WPBA ladies case pool is a show (entertainment) not a sport. 9-ball and 10-ball are nothing but games of chance just
like poker and blackjack.
<font color="red">Baseball is played on non-standard fields and many of the rules, in baseball and football, are open to interpretation by umpires and referees, who don't always make the correct calls. Also, there is a certain amount of chance involved in any sport, so, in the end, pool is no different from any other sport. </font color>

Who has time to be a spectator at a 3 day or 4 day or 7 day tournament? Retirees, people out of work, the very rich? Who! I spent 4 days at 3 WPBA tournaments and if it wasnít
for Karen Corr, Sarah Ellerby, Tiffany Nelson and Kim Shaw I would have never flown
1,200 miles to see them play.

<font color="red">In major tournaments I attend, I see many working class people watching the evening and weekend rounds. Let me ask, who goes to watch a baseball game on a weekday afternoon? I can tell you from experience, there are not many there, but there are some, the same as at a pool tournament. </font color>

Who outside the pool industry will invest in the WPBA beside the casinos they play in?
<font color="red">This is the one question I cannot honestly answer. I see pool being used in commercials for many products and the pool league systems continue to grow. Millions of people are currently playing pool on a regular basis, and it is truly an international sport. Hopefully, as pool becomes more acceptable, mainstream companies will find it beneficial to sponsor pool events. </font color>

Most of the worldís fortune 500 companies target product buyers between the ages of 18 to 34 years of age. You wonít find many people that age in casinos with the casino connotation of gambling, alcohol, drugs and prostitution.

<font color="red">What casinos have you been in? Granted, casinos in most states do not allow those under the age of 21 to enter, however, you will find people of all ages, over 21, in any casino. Obviously, gambling is done in casinos, but any connotations of alcohol, drugs and prostitution are no more associated with casinos than anywhere else in society. If there is any connotation, it sure hasn't hurt the business in the casinos and I'm sure that pool hasn't been hurt by any association with casinos. </font color>

Has the WPBA ever made a public stock offering? I am sure it would be worthless to anyone in the average main stream. Maybe a hotel corporation could invest in WPBA,

<font color="red">How many baseball and football teams have made public stock offerings? How would that benefit pool? </font color>

I think that may have been tried in the past, poor KT found out what a loser pool is no one watches except the people who play it.

<font color="red">Oh yes, we all feel sorry for "poor KT". </font color>

Maybe the lady players who think itís so smart to incorporate them selves should invest in WPBA? How about Ginn Corp and Walt Disney? How about the pro pool players filing for charity and accepting donations?
<font color="red">You know this is stupid. I don't need to comment. </font color>

$90,000.00 in prize money is about the fine money for one week of pro football and I think that goes to charity. Isnít pool ashamed of such a paltry figure? Lets see $90,000.00
divided by 64 players come out to $1,406.25 for each player which is about my grocery bill each month

Pool is nothing but a shell game played on a table by people who only think of themselves. If you donít believe me ask KT! Only 5 players out of 200 thanked him for his dough and the rest had some scheme to use his money to get rich. He He He If your fool enough to invest in pool you deserve what you get.
<font color="red">Yes, only 5 players out of 200 failed to thank KT for his dough. However, how many players did KT fail to pay at the end of the last IPT tournament? In the beginning days of the IPT, KT led everyone to believe he was financing the IPT out of his personal funds. There was no mention of any financing packages involving foreign casino owners or anyone else. Forgive me, but I don't feel sorry for KT. </font color> <hr /></blockquote>
<font color="red"> Harry, I continue to fail to see why you post on the pool forums. You are obviously disgusted about the current state of pool and all you do is complain. You never mention anything positive. Why don't you just seperate yourself from the world of pool? I think you like complaining, more than you hate pool.</font color>

jjinfla
12-06-2007, 03:50 PM
It will be interesting to see if anyone will step up and invest in the WPBA. One has to admit that the business plan that the WPBA has in place is probably the best the pros have, men or women. But they have to make it more interesting to attract fans.

Pro pool players have to play to an audiance if they want to make money, and they, the players just are not interested in doing that. They would prefer to win a few hundred dollars here and there and not work to earn hundreds of thousands.

There just is no interest for people to watch a pool match for hours on end, day after day. People would rather play than watch.

Who wants to watch a great player play a dud? Which usually happens in a tournament. I think that is why Earl scatters the balls with his cue when he misses a shot. He is not really playing his opponent; he is playing the ghost.

It has been several months since I have been anywhere to watch pro match and to tell the truth I don't miss it. I don't even watch them on TV anymore.

Jake

SKennedy
12-06-2007, 04:18 PM
I tape the shows and then watch at my convenience and skip all the commercials and hoopla! I watch details....like stroke, spin on the ball, how they execute kick shots, and try to find the differences and the similarities between the players, etc. I'm hoping some of their ability will rub off.

Deeman3
12-06-2007, 04:29 PM
Pool is practically dead on TV now. With the exception of once a year short reviews of the Mosconi Cup and seven year old WPBA re-runs, the future seems pretty bleak.

It would even be nice if we could have old Accustats tapes cued up with commercials in between games but it seems we are forever doomed to a marginal product wedged somewhere between bowling and skiddles in popularity. We have rehashed format, commentators and even camera angles for at least 8 years on this board but little seems to change. I credit the women for their efforts but I see little chance of anything but more of the same. If we just had the popularity of timber cutting or Red Bull air races in HD, we'd be doing well. At 55, i won't live long enough for the broadcasters and associations to figure it out. /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

SKennedy
12-06-2007, 05:01 PM
55? Finally hit mid-life?
I'd say pool may be relegated to less public venues, like shooting craps....but look at Texas Hold 'Em!
I actually enjoy the old WPBA tournaments on ESPN Classic. But then again, I enjoy the game. Those who don't know the game well enough will not watch no matter what you do or don't do. Grow the popularity of the game and the TV audience will grow also. As your friend told me yesterday, many people don't shoot pool because of a non-family atmosphere and smoking. If you were to get high profile people to start playing or be photographed playing, etc., more people would play. Beckham? Paris Hilton? Brad and Jolie? At least for awhile. Pool just isn't for everybody. Some like outdoor sports, some want something more strenuous, etc. If you want it to grow so that more players can earn more money, or so related manufacturers and suppliers can make more money, then you just create a temporary artificial market and when it busts, everyone else goes bust also. I don't know....
Buit I do know this....I don't remember seeing any pool leagues 10 years ago. Now, I see pool halls in our area fairly full on league nights. Many of them are newer players. The league and its members need to do a good job retaining these new players and offer decent incentives to remain in the leagues, etc. Need to make sure the league operators are doing a good job, which of course, benefits them as well.

Deeman3
12-07-2007, 08:38 AM
For the entertainment aspects, I have long been an advocate of trying something like Ninja pool where contestants are armed with battle axes and swords and fight to the death between shots or even the "Naked Ladies Tour" but short of that, the increase in league play is almost all bar tables and tavern pool, not bringing up the overall appeal of pool very much. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Eric.
12-07-2007, 09:53 AM
Damn, Harry. I don't know whether to feel bad that you are always so miserable.

I don't know about you, but if something in my life irritated me that much, I usually fix it or walk away from it. Nothing productive about constant complaining with no action.


Eric

eg8r
12-11-2007, 09:46 AM
[ QUOTE ]
$1,406.25 for each player which is about my grocery bill each month
<hr /></blockquote> Wow, I thought my $600/month was out of control.

eg8r

SKennedy
12-11-2007, 10:23 AM
Missus says back when both kids were home ours ran about $1,000/month. Of course, my wife didn't shop and cook like my grandmother did.

eg8r
12-11-2007, 11:12 AM
I am used to spending $600 but once my kids get older I guess it will go up. If it hits $1400 then I know I am in trouble. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r

HarryDC
12-17-2007, 10:43 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rich R.:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote HarryDC:</font><hr> WHO WILL INVEST IN WPBA POOL?

Pool is not a sport itís a crooked game played on crooked tables, with nonstandard pockets, with anything goes rules and no referees. In the WPBA ladies case pool is a show (entertainment) not a sport. 9-ball and 10-ball are nothing but games of chance just
like poker and blackjack.
<font color="red">Baseball is played on non-standard fields and many of the rules, in baseball and football, are open to interpretation by umpires and referees, who don't always make the correct calls. Also, there is a certain amount of chance involved in any sport, so, in the end, pool is no different from any other sport. </font color>

Who has time to be a spectator at a 3 day or 4 day or 7 day tournament? Retirees, people out of work, the very rich? Who! I spent 4 days at 3 WPBA tournaments and if it wasnít
for Karen Corr, Sarah Ellerby, Tiffany Nelson and Kim Shaw I would have never flown
1,200 miles to see them play.

<font color="red">In major tournaments I attend, I see many working class people watching the evening and weekend rounds. Let me ask, who goes to watch a baseball game on a weekday afternoon? I can tell you from experience, there are not many there, but there are some, the same as at a pool tournament. </font color>

Who outside the pool industry will invest in the WPBA beside the casinos they play in?
<font color="red">This is the one question I cannot honestly answer. I see pool being used in commercials for many products and the pool league systems continue to grow. Millions of people are currently playing pool on a regular basis, and it is truly an international sport. Hopefully, as pool becomes more acceptable, mainstream companies will find it beneficial to sponsor pool events. </font color>

Most of the worldís fortune 500 companies target product buyers between the ages of 18 to 34 years of age. You wonít find many people that age in casinos with the casino connotation of gambling, alcohol, drugs and prostitution.

<font color="red">What casinos have you been in? Granted, casinos in most states do not allow those under the age of 21 to enter, however, you will find people of all ages, over 21, in any casino. Obviously, gambling is done in casinos, but any connotations of alcohol, drugs and prostitution are no more associated with casinos than anywhere else in society. If there is any connotation, it sure hasn't hurt the business in the casinos and I'm sure that pool hasn't been hurt by any association with casinos. </font color>

Has the WPBA ever made a public stock offering? I am sure it would be worthless to anyone in the average main stream. Maybe a hotel corporation could invest in WPBA,

<font color="red">How many baseball and football teams have made public stock offerings? How would that benefit pool? </font color>

I think that may have been tried in the past, poor KT found out what a loser pool is no one watches except the people who play it.

<font color="red">Oh yes, we all feel sorry for "poor KT". </font color>

Maybe the lady players who think itís so smart to incorporate them selves should invest in WPBA? How about Ginn Corp and Walt Disney? How about the pro pool players filing for charity and accepting donations?
<font color="red">You know this is stupid. I don't need to comment. </font color>

$90,000.00 in prize money is about the fine money for one week of pro football and I think that goes to charity. Isnít pool ashamed of such a paltry figure? Lets see $90,000.00
divided by 64 players come out to $1,406.25 for each player which is about my grocery bill each month

Pool is nothing but a shell game played on a table by people who only think of themselves. If you donít believe me ask KT! Only 5 players out of 200 thanked him for his dough and the rest had some scheme to use his money to get rich. He He He If your fool enough to invest in pool you deserve what you get.
<font color="red">Yes, only 5 players out of 200 failed to thank KT for his dough. However, how many players did KT fail to pay at the end of the last IPT tournament? In the beginning days of the IPT, KT led everyone to believe he was financing the IPT out of his personal funds. There was no mention of any financing packages involving foreign casino owners or anyone else. Forgive me, but I don't feel sorry for KT. </font color> <hr /></blockquote>
<font color="red"> Harry, I continue to fail to see why you post on the pool forums. You are obviously disgusted about the current state of pool and all you do is complain. You never mention anything positive. Why don't you just seperate yourself from the world of pool? I think you like complaining, more than you hate pool.</font color> <hr /></blockquote>

Rich R.

I understand your frustration but I think that maybe you should go away! He He He You donít get any rep points from me for supporting a business, in the case of the WPBA, which has been declining for 31 years. I imagine your solution to the pool revenue problem is to tell all the dissenterís to go away. Ha Ha Ha

The NFL Football owners invested millions of there own dollars to build great revenue
generating franchises that have made them rich beyond there wildest dreams. Why would they make a stock offer? Pool generates no such revenue maybe if they worked hard they could salvage there mess? Pool playerís work hard? What a joke! Steve Moore couldnít even keep a good job and great benefits with the U. S. Post Office. He saidĒ It was to HardĒ BD Article on this website.

Lets see! It seems to me that the WPBA appeared at Super Billiards Expo (Philadelphia PA) until they priced themselves out of Allen Hopkins market, They appeared in a Chicago Pool Hall and the Amsterdam in New York and were never asked back when the ownerís found out what a loser TV pool is.

Now it seems to be all down hill from that point. Reduced to a community collage field house in North Carolina and casinos in out of the way places, far from air transport and some with no hotel accommodations. How could the WPBA generate any revenue from fans? If I invest in a, so called, business I expect a reasonable return on my investment. Pool generates no revenue I can see. Everyone in pool takes and never gives back where I invest 50% of my earnings in my business to keep it in the mainstream which even generates more revenue,

Oh, I have been in casinos all over the world and my favorite is the Casino at Monte Carlo.

Happy Holiday

CarolNYC
12-19-2007, 05:22 AM
Hi Harry,
How are you? Ya know, it makes me sad to read all the negative you write about pool when ,I know, you were such a follower/supporter of it /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Anyways, last August 31st, I won something for my daughter called "Fantasy Player of the Day' to be treated like a Professional Tennis player at the US Open in Queens-we received giftbags and a whole bunch of stuff,but,it started with an hour lesson from a pro, then,to the locker-rooms to shower then to a building-ANYONE in this building was a Professional Tennis Player........

first floor hair salon/makeup where she got her hair cut by Julia Gabriel salons,then makeup done-
next floor cafeteria with chefs at every station,even slicing the fresh fruit /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif,
the next floor was lounge with plasmas and very warm surroundings,by then, I wanted to watch matches!

Jenny ,US open representative/ marketer and our contact, (who knew I was a poolplayer and played on the pro tour ) answered ALOT of questions ,and,believe me, I had ALOT -how does a sport get THIS BIG? Corporate sponsorship!
Some things you said may be true, but you have to hope that pool becomes big,one day soon /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif,-I hope so /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Take care and have a nice holiday!
Merry Xmas to everyone else,too!
Carol

Deeman3
12-19-2007, 08:19 AM
Carol,

Hey lady. Good to see you posting. Congratulations to you and your daughter. You guys could get used to the queen treatment pretty quick!

Have a wonderful Christmas.

Rich R.
12-19-2007, 08:48 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote CarolNYC:</font><hr> Hi Harry,
How are you? Ya know, it makes me sad to read all the negative you write about pool when ,I know, you were such a follower/supporter of it /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif<hr /></blockquote>
Hi Carol. It is good to see you posting again.

As far as Harry, you may as well address your note to a door knob. He has turned into a sad little man, who sits in a corner and does nothing but complain about the state of pool in this country.

Maybe us pool fans are dreamers, because we believe pool can become a major, mainstream, sport some day. I would rather be a dreamer than someone like Harry.

This thread reminds me of two quotes, and I'm sorry I don't know their sources.

The first applies to Harry.

"If you are not part of the solution, you must be part of the problem."

The second applies to us all, as supporters of pool.

"Without dreams, there are no goals.
Without goals, there is no success. "

CarolNYC
12-19-2007, 11:56 AM
Hi Rich,
Well,Im sorry to hear that about Harry

[ QUOTE ]
"If you are not part of the solution, you must be part of the problem." <hr /></blockquote>
and I always say "Theres never a problem,only a solution" /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Wishing you&amp;Cathy a Happy Holiday! /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Carol

CarolNYC
12-19-2007, 12:06 PM
Hiya Deeman,
How are you? About 2 years ago we were in contact-hope everything went well- You feeling good?

And,YES, queen treatment works, even if its just for a day /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif-my daughter enjoyed herself,me too!

I forgot to answer the question-who would invest in pool?
I think Budweiser would-the Olympics,Nascar,hockey,basketball....list is endless-why not pool? Theres a MILIION bar leagues-countless tournaments played on bar tables-Im sure alot of bars sell bud /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
They made ALL my banners for my burn center charity (50-60)no problem-we have the contact-or at least, I know who I spoke with /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

I dont know anything about getting corporate sponsors,but I'd start SOMEWHERE,like "BUD" /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Take very good care and stay well!
Have a wonderful Xmas!
Carol

dg-in-centralpa
12-19-2007, 01:04 PM
Carol,
Good to see you're still hanging around. Something like this would be a great idea. Why not talk to Hopkins about this for Valley Forge? We will see you in March, right? I need one of your famous hugs.

DG - Merry Christmas to you and your family

Deeman3
12-19-2007, 01:48 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote CarolNYC:</font><hr> Hiya Deeman,
How are you? About 2 years ago we were in contact-hope everything went well- You feeling good?

<font color="blue">I am doing terriffic. </font color>

And,YES, queen treatment works, even if its just for a day /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif-my daughter enjoyed herself,me too!

<font color="blue"> You both deserve it. </font color>

I forgot to answer the question-who would invest in pool?
I think Budweiser would-the Olympics,Nascar,hockey,basketball....list is endless-why not pool? Theres a MILIION bar leagues-countless tournaments played on bar tables-Im sure alot of bars sell bud /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
They made ALL my banners for my burn center charity (50-60)no problem-we have the contact-or at least, I know who I spoke with /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

I dont know anything about getting corporate sponsors,but I'd start SOMEWHERE,like "BUD" /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Take very good care and stay well!
Have a wonderful Xmas!
Carol <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue"> You may not know much about coporate sponsorship but you can sell to anyone. Maybe Bud should sponsor you and let you drag the WPBA along with you. You can be our Bud Girl anytime./ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Keep doing your good work and keep in touch with us here. </font color>

CarolNYC
12-19-2007, 05:44 PM
Hey Duane,

[ QUOTE ]
Good to see you're still hanging around <hr /></blockquote>
Yes,and very glad to see you are ,too!I only worked 4 events for the WPBA this year (N.C, Vegas,San Diego and Nationals in Oregon)but we went to the Seminole Hardrock-I called Voodoo and didnt know he moved to Michigan -I was bummed /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif-had a good time,though!

[ QUOTE ]
We will see you in March, right? <hr /></blockquote>

ABSOLUTELY /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[ QUOTE ]
I need one of your famous hugs <hr /></blockquote>
Ha,ha,ha-thats a promise /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Give Mary my best-Im here-Have a nice Xmas,okay?
Carol /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

CarolNYC
12-19-2007, 05:47 PM
[ QUOTE ]
You can be our Bud Girl anytime. <hr /></blockquote>
Deeman,
Your a sweetheart-always was and always will be /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ QUOTE ]
Keep doing your good work and keep in touch with us here. <hr /></blockquote>

You have my word,Deeman-I will!
And Im VERY happy your doing terrific!
My best always,
Carol /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

jjinfla
12-19-2007, 06:06 PM
Carol,

You forget what saved tennis? Maybe you are just too young (Surely you're not old enough to have a teenager. You meant your niece won that fabulous prize?) to remember Bobby Riggs and his famous match with Billie Jean KIng in 1973. After that tennis came alive and really took off.

Grady and Allison tried to drum up some interest in pool but it failed.

I wouldn't put much stock in what Rich says. Or about as much as I would listen to a SL 3 giving pool advice. He and Eric just love to put Harry down. I wonder if their net worth is anywhere close to Harry's. Most likely thier cues are in hock. I am sure that Harry has contributed a hell of a lot more money to help pool players than most people have

Right now the only group really backing pros is the Seminole Tribe down here in Florida. After all they most likely are raking in several million a day off us old farts down here so they have to spend it somewhere.

The pool players, and by that I mean pros, have to do something to generate some interest in fans. Unfortunately I really don't know how they can do that. Pros think sponsors should just give them money. They don't understand that sponsors would love to give them money if they could make money off of the fans.

Tonight Archer and Strickland will be playing and broadcast on the IPT website. But where is the pool fraternity? Nowhere to be heard. There is not much promotion of that event by pool players. They just don't get it. But they will be quick to criticize.

Well, I hope Johnny and Earl are handsomely rewarded tonight.

Jake

CarolNYC
12-20-2007, 09:08 AM
Good Morning Jake /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif
[ QUOTE ]
Maybe you are just too young (Surely you're not old enough to have a teenager. You meant your niece won that fabulous prize?) <hr /></blockquote>

That was VERY sweet-thank -you,but I am old enough,ha ha!
I dont remember that famous match,though,but heard of it.

[ QUOTE ]
I am sure that Harry has contributed a hell of a lot more money to help pool players than most people have
<hr /></blockquote>
Well, I know he has made some wonderful relatonships and has fond memories and it was because of pool-honestly, when I first mat him,I thought he was a sweet man,harmless,BUT,kinda freaky,but then ,again,I live in NY-we got alot more freaks than that,ha ha-
I think he's just frustrated that pool is NOT at the caliber it should be,but if he holds on to his memories, he'll remain a fan because without us as fans,pool would be nowhere-ya know?If you talk to him, tell him I still have the pins he gave me and my daughter-maybe that will make him smile /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I agree with you on the Seminoles!

[ QUOTE ]
The pool players, and by that I mean pros, have to do something to generate some interest in fans. Unfortunately I really don't know how they can do that <hr /></blockquote>
I know-me neither-honestly I want to scream,especially after that Tennis US open day-its like,"Cm'on already,something happen" Unbelievable!
But,we can only hope and keep supporting-we all love pool /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

The WPBA changed the National Championship to be held at the Hardrock in Hollywood in Dec,2008-maybe you can come by?

Hey, I dont know if you remeber that Million dollar tournament I mentioned awhile ago to you that Allen (Hopkins) was gonna throw? Here anything?

anyways,always a pleasure-have a nice Xmas and stay well!
Carol /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

CarolNYC
12-20-2007, 09:17 AM
Good Morning Jake /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif
[ QUOTE ]
Maybe you are just too young (Surely you're not old enough to have a teenager. You meant your niece won that fabulous prize?) <hr /></blockquote>

That was VERY sweet-thank -you,but I am old enough,ha ha!
I dont remember that famous match,though,but heard of it.

[ QUOTE ]
I am sure that Harry has contributed a hell of a lot more money to help pool players than most people have
<hr /></blockquote>
Well, I know he has made some wonderful relatonships and has fond memories and it was because of pool-honestly, when I first mat him,I thought he was a sweet man,harmless,BUT,kinda freaky,but then ,again,I live in NY-we got alot more freaks than that,ha ha-
I think he's just frustrated that pool is NOT at the caliber it should be,but if he holds on to his memories, he'll remain a fan because without us as fans,pool would be nowhere-ya know?If you talk to him, tell him I still have the pins he gave me and my daughter-maybe that will make him smile /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I agree with you on the Seminoles!

[ QUOTE ]
The pool players, and by that I mean pros, have to do something to generate some interest in fans. Unfortunately I really don't know how they can do that <hr /></blockquote>
I know-me neither-honestly I want to scream,especially after that Tennis US open day-its like,"Cm'on already,something happen" Unbelievable!
But,we can only hope and keep supporting-we all love pool /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

The WPBA changed the National Championship to be held at the Hardrock in Hollywood in Dec,2008-maybe you can come by?

Hey, I dont know if you remeber that Million dollar tournament I mentioned awhile ago to you that Allen (Hopkins) was gonna throw? Hear anything?

anyways,always a pleasure-have a nice Xmas and stay well!
Carol /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

jjinfla
12-20-2007, 07:25 PM
Merry Christmas to you too Carol and may the New Year be especially nice to you and yours.

Maybe Santa Claus will bring a special gift to the pool players. Perhaps a final payment from the IPT?

I haven't heard much about Allen's million dollar tournament, but it sounded similar to the IPT business plan. Sounded pretty involved. Since I have not heard any players talking it up I honestly just don't give it much chance of success. If the players don't want to get behind it then it is dead. But who knows. Allen seems like an intelligent person, has been around pool for many years, knows how to run tournaments and what is required, so I wouldn't expect him to get into something where he would lose a lot of money.

I think you are right about Harry just being frustrated that pool did not reach his expectations.

Hollywood is about 350 miles away. Maybe I should make the trip while I still can.

Jake

av84fun
12-20-2007, 07:41 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman3:</font><hr> Pool is practically dead on TV now. With the exception of once a year short reviews of the Mosconi Cup and seven year old WPBA re-runs, the future seems pretty bleak. <hr /></blockquote>

Actually, to my surprise, I found out that is not true. Certainly pool is not going to be a prime time or even live broadcast event. But most pool matches broadcast on a "tape delay" basis get ratings nearly double those achieved by the average tape delay sports programming on ESPN.

The last BCA got roughly 550,000 households...and the women's division got higher ratings than the men's...which doesn't surprise me.

So, it seems clear that money is being made by the producers on a small but reasonable basis and therefore has a long future ahead of it.

Having said that, there are TONS of issues about the sport and many ways to improve its popularity but that's a subject for another thread.

Regards,
Jim

Rich R.
12-20-2007, 10:01 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote jjinfla:</font><hr> I wouldn't put much stock in what Rich says. Or about as much as I would listen to a SL 3 giving pool advice. He and Eric just love to put Harry down. I wonder if their net worth is anywhere close to Harry's. Most likely thier cues are in hock. I am sure that Harry has contributed a hell of a lot more money to help pool players than most people have<hr /></blockquote>
Jake, you will have to explain to me, what "net worth" has to do with a pool discussion. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

To save you some trouble, I will concede that Harry has a higher net worth than me, probably several times more than me. However, my cues have never been "in hock". What little I have, in the way of net worth, I have come by honestly, through many years of hard work. I have no regrets and I don't owe any money. That is more than most can say.
Also, I am not privy to Eric's personal finances, but I would venture a guess that his cues are not "in hock" either. He is a very bright, hard working, man.

I will also concede that Harry has contributed money to help some pool players. However, when he turns around and types nasty comments about all pool players, I don't consider that supporting the game of pool.

I suspect that Eric, like myself, receives no joy from discussing Harry. Harry brings it on himself by constantly complaining about the current state of pool and referring to players and promoters in very derogatory terms. We all know that pool has its shortcomings. What is needed is solutions, not constant complaining. As I suggested, If Harry is not part of the solution, he must be part of the problem.

Scott Lee
12-20-2007, 10:57 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote CarolNYC:</font><hr>
I forgot to answer the question-who would invest in pool?
I think Budweiser would-the Olympics,Nascar,hockey,basketball....list is endless-why not pool? Theres a MILIION bar leagues-countless tournaments played on bar tables-Im sure alot of bars sell bud /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
They made ALL my banners for my burn center charity (50-60)no problem-we have the contact-or at least, I know who I spoke with /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

I dont know anything about getting corporate sponsors,but I'd start SOMEWHERE,like "BUD" /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Take very good care and stay well!
Have a wonderful Xmas!
Carol <hr /></blockquote>

Carol...You must have forgotten that Anheuser-Busch has been 'investing' in pool since 1979, when the APA started as the Busch Pool League. Then it evolved into the Bud Light Pool League for a few years. Then Bud left pool for awhile, and finally came back as an alternate sponsor for APA, in their annual national championships. The amount of investment remains quite limited, and sadly, I don't forsee AB making any substancial changes...not that they couldn't, and not that I wouldn't like to see it.

Scott Lee

CarolNYC
12-21-2007, 04:56 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Maybe Santa Claus will bring a special gift to the pool players. Perhaps a final payment from the IPT?
<hr /></blockquote>
Ha Ha Ha,you got me smiling now,ha ha ha-yes,that would be a good thing!

Allens a good guy-I hope it works /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[ QUOTE ]
Hollywood is about 350 miles away. Maybe I should make the trip while I still can<hr /></blockquote>
I'll send a car for you /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Take very good care!
Carol

CarolNYC
12-21-2007, 05:07 AM
Scott,
So nice to hear from you-hope your well /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[ QUOTE ]
You must have forgotten that Anheuser-Busch has been 'investing' in pool since 1979 <hr /></blockquote>
I didnt know that......and they sponsor a local 8 ball league here,too-I dont understand why at the "professional level" they havent been approached,or, maybe they have /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
Pool needs corporations-when you have someone like Roger Federer winning 1.5 mil for his US open and a pool players US open wins 10,000, thats just sad-its unbelievable!

[ QUOTE ]
finally came back as an alternate sponsor for APA <hr /></blockquote>
Scott, I LOVE APA players-at the Nationals in Oregon there is a big APA tournament going on in the next arena
and in my spare time,thats where Im hanging-those guys have alot of fun-they're awesome! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[ QUOTE ]
The amount of investment remains quite limited<hr /></blockquote>
Hmmmm,back to square one-maybe airlines ?;)
Have a very Merry Xmas,Scott /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Carol

Deeman3
12-21-2007, 08:17 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote av84fun:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman3:</font><hr> Pool is practically dead on TV now. With the exception of once a year short reviews of the Mosconi Cup and seven year old WPBA re-runs, the future seems pretty bleak. <hr /></blockquote>

Actually, to my surprise, I found out that is not true. Certainly pool is not going to be a prime time or even live broadcast event. But most pool matches broadcast on a "tape delay" basis get ratings nearly double those achieved by the average tape delay sports programming on ESPN.

<font color="blue">I was aware of that statistic. However, the high value of re-runs has little value to the expansion of pool and almost none to the development of the game to the wider audience. Only new venues and additional tournaments will bring revenue to the players, not rehashed old programs that ESPN spools up every few months. </font color>

The last BCA got roughly 550,000 households...and the women's division got higher ratings than the men's...which doesn't surprise me.

<font color="blue">And how much of the ad revenue went into a WPBA player's pocket? Nada </font color>

So, it seems clear that money is being made by the producers on a small but reasonable basis and therefore has a long future ahead of it.

<font color="blue"> If they can profit from existing programming, why spend additional production costs on new events? How many new events are being produced this year? </font color>

Having said that, there are TONS of issues about the sport and many ways to improve its popularity but that's a subject for another thread.

<font color="blue">Agreed. </font color>

Regards,
Jim <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue"> Jim, many on here and elsewhere have given good ideas but the powers that be at the sports networks have not gotten the message. </font color>

Rich R.
12-21-2007, 08:34 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman3:</font><hr> <font color="blue"> Jim, many on here and elsewhere have given good ideas but the powers that be at the sports networks have not gotten the message. </font color> <hr /></blockquote>
This is the truth. They truly have not gotten the message.

ESPN affiliates around the world carry a lot of pool programing, yet the main network, in our own country, fails to support pool in the same way.
If they don't want to spend too much on additional production costs, I would be happy if they just show us the tournaments the have already recorded in other countries.

ESPN doesn't seem to realize that pool is a truly international sport and they have the potential to make a lot of money from pool related programing.

av84fun
12-21-2007, 10:18 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman3:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote av84fun:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman3:</font><hr> Pool is practically dead on TV now. With the exception of once a year short reviews of the Mosconi Cup and seven year old WPBA re-runs, the future seems pretty bleak. <hr /></blockquote>

Actually, to my surprise, I found out that is not true. Certainly pool is not going to be a prime time or even live broadcast event. But most pool matches broadcast on a "tape delay" basis get ratings nearly double those achieved by the average tape delay sports programming on ESPN.

<font color="blue">I was aware of that statistic. However, the high value of re-runs has little value to the expansion of pool and almost none to the development of the game to the wider audience. Only new venues and additional tournaments will bring revenue to the players, not rehashed old programs that ESPN spools up every few months. </font color>

The last BCA got roughly 550,000 households...and the women's division got higher ratings than the men's...which doesn't surprise me.

<font color="blue">And how much of the ad revenue went into a WPBA player's pocket? Nada </font color>

So, it seems clear that money is being made by the producers on a small but reasonable basis and therefore has a long future ahead of it.

<font color="blue"> If they can profit from existing programming, why spend additional production costs on new events? How many new events are being produced this year? </font color>

Having said that, there are TONS of issues about the sport and many ways to improve its popularity but that's a subject for another thread.

<font color="blue">Agreed. </font color>

Regards,
Jim <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue"> Jim, many on here and elsewhere have given good ideas but the powers that be at the sports networks have not gotten the message. </font color> <hr /></blockquote>

"And how much of the ad revenue went into a WPBA player's pocket? Nada"

That isn't really correct. If there was no TV ad revenue then there would be no WPBA tournaments as we now know them. Without TV it would have to revert to the "pay to play" entry fee type of regional tournament.

But please know that I fully agree that pro pool, in general, is a sick puppy with only a handful of pros making a living at it.

But in the world of ESPN that needs to crank sports programming 24/7/365, pool is a solid performer relative to bass fishing, lumberjacking, Hunting type shows. So, it has its tiny little place and will keep it for the forseeable future.

Regards,
Jim

bsmutz
12-21-2007, 12:24 PM
I'm no expert on the subject, but at the last WPBA event I attended, Steve Tipton iterated that the WPBA pays ESPN to produce the show. I believe I read somewhere that it costs upwards of $20,000 to have ESPN record an event. Of course, I have no idea how much if any money the WPBA gets from ESPN or their advertisers when the show is aired. I don't think ESPN is rushing out to produce any pool related shows on their own dime.

av84fun
12-22-2007, 05:29 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rich R.:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman3:</font><hr> <font color="blue"> Jim, many on here and elsewhere have given good ideas but the powers that be at the sports networks have not gotten the message. </font color> <hr /></blockquote>
This is the truth. They truly have not gotten the message.

ESPN affiliates around the world carry a lot of pool programing, yet the main network, in our own country, fails to support pool in the same way.
If they don't want to spend too much on additional production costs, I would be happy if they just show us the tournaments the have already recorded in other countries.

ESPN doesn't seem to realize that pool is a truly international sport and they have the potential to make a lot of money from pool related programing. <hr /></blockquote>

Rich, ESPN does not spend a penny on production costs for any of its tape delay programming (as far as I know) and certainly not for pool matches.

The WPBA pays the prodeuction crew...not ESPN. ESPN simply provideds the air time that can be sold to advertisers and the add money is what reimburses WPBA's production costs and hopefully, allows for a profit.

I am not SURE about this, but I don't think that WPBA even gets the specctator admission fees.

Regards,
Jim

av84fun
12-22-2007, 05:34 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bsmutz:</font><hr> I'm no expert on the subject, but at the last WPBA event I attended, Steve Tipton iterated that the WPBA pays ESPN to produce the show. I believe I read somewhere that it costs upwards of $20,000 to have ESPN record an event. Of course, I have no idea how much if any money the WPBA gets from ESPN or their advertisers when the show is aired. I don't think ESPN is rushing out to produce any pool related shows on their own dime. <hr /></blockquote>

That is almost correct...but WPBA doesn't pay ESPN...instead, WPBA pays an independent production company to shoot the program.


That is one reason...maybe the ONLY reason, why the TV matches are reduced from races to 9 to 7. They could edit races to 9...or any other number...to fit the 1 hour broadcast slot...but they would have to pay the production crew to video the longer matches and that would cost more production money without any way to benefit...because they are still stuck with the 1 hour time slot.

Regards,
Jim

Rich R.
12-22-2007, 08:36 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote av84fun:</font><hr>Rich, ESPN does not spend a penny on production costs for any of its tape delay programming (as far as I know) and certainly not for pool matches.

The WPBA pays the prodeuction crew...not ESPN. ESPN simply provideds the air time that can be sold to advertisers and the add money is what reimburses WPBA's production costs and hopefully, allows for a profit.

I am not SURE about this, but I don't think that WPBA even gets the specctator admission fees.

Regards,
Jim <hr /></blockquote>
Jim, I am well aware of the sad situation between the WPBA and ESPN. I do not know if the situation is the same in Europe and Asia, where ESPN affiliates broadcast pool, sometimes live. For some unknown reason, millions of people are playing pool in this country, but ESPN doesn't think they are interested in watching pool live. Even when they broadcast tape delayed WPBA matches, you never see any promotion of those broadcasts. ESPN only uses it as filler.

av84fun
12-23-2007, 12:13 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rich R.:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote av84fun:</font><hr>Rich, ESPN does not spend a penny on production costs for any of its tape delay programming (as far as I know) and certainly not for pool matches.

The WPBA pays the prodeuction crew...not ESPN. ESPN simply provideds the air time that can be sold to advertisers and the add money is what reimburses WPBA's production costs and hopefully, allows for a profit.

I am not SURE about this, but I don't think that WPBA even gets the specctator admission fees.

Regards,
Jim <hr /></blockquote>
Jim, I am well aware of the sad situation between the WPBA and ESPN. I do not know if the situation is the same in Europe and Asia, where ESPN affiliates broadcast pool, sometimes live. For some unknown reason, millions of people are playing pool in this country, but ESPN doesn't think they are interested in watching pool live. Even when they broadcast tape delayed WPBA matches, you never see any promotion of those broadcasts. ESPN only uses it as filler. <hr /></blockquote>

Rich, very respectfully, I think you misunderstand ESPN's role in the broadcast of the programs that they do not, themselves, produce.

What ESPN does with that type of programming (which is the majority of the programming they broadcast) is to make a portion of their 24 daily hours available to independent producers of sports programming that includes everything from bass fishing to pool.

They don't spend ANY money to produce those programs.

What they do is to "trade" the producers the right to sell SOME negotiated portion of the available ad minutes during the one hour show for a certain number of broadcasts, and ESPN sells the rest of the time.

So, the producers have as much incentive to "promote" the tv shows as ESPN does...BUT...the fact of the matter is that viewership is so low RELATIVE to other major sporting events, that neither ESPN nor the WPBA or Mosconi Cup etc. producers can afford to spend much on promotion.

Advertisers pay in relation to the "reach" of the program...i.e. how many households are watching and with less than a half million households viewing the typical matches in the U.S. the advertisers pay relatively small sums.

It is just a fact of life that the interest in watching pro matches either on TV or in person is just very small in the U.S. partly because of the nature of the game itself and partly because pool has to compete with the major sports for the limited time viewers have to spend watching.

Bowling, bass fishing, deer hunting, lumberjacking etc. are all niche events and will never get prime time, live broadcasting regardless of how much money is spent to promote them.


But certainly, ESPN is not a "culprit." The culprit is US. Because even the ACTIVE pool playing community doesn't even care about buying a ticket to see the BCA matches, for example, when there are 8,000 of US within a few hundred yards of the event..and STILL their are empty seats.

Regards,
Jim

Rich R.
12-23-2007, 07:52 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote av84fun:</font><hr>Rich, very respectfully, I think you misunderstand ESPN's role in the broadcast of the programs that they do not, themselves, produce.

What ESPN does with that type of programming (which is the majority of the programming they broadcast) is to make a portion of their 24 daily hours available to independent producers of sports programming that includes everything from bass fishing to pool.

They don't spend ANY money to produce those programs.

What they do is to "trade" the producers the right to sell SOME negotiated portion of the available ad minutes during the one hour show for a certain number of broadcasts, and ESPN sells the rest of the time.

So, the producers have as much incentive to "promote" the tv shows as ESPN does...BUT...the fact of the matter is that viewership is so low RELATIVE to other major sporting events, that neither ESPN nor the WPBA or Mosconi Cup etc. producers can afford to spend much on promotion.

Advertisers pay in relation to the "reach" of the program...i.e. how many households are watching and with less than a half million households viewing the typical matches in the U.S. the advertisers pay relatively small sums.

It is just a fact of life that the interest in watching pro matches either on TV or in person is just very small in the U.S. partly because of the nature of the game itself and partly because pool has to compete with the major sports for the limited time viewers have to spend watching.

Bowling, bass fishing, deer hunting, lumberjacking etc. are all niche events and will never get prime time, live broadcasting regardless of how much money is spent to promote them.


But certainly, ESPN is not a "culprit." The culprit is US. Because even the ACTIVE pool playing community doesn't even care about buying a ticket to see the BCA matches, for example, when there are 8,000 of US within a few hundred yards of the event..and STILL their are empty seats.

Regards,
Jim <hr /></blockquote>
Jim, you will get no argument from me, concerning the way things work in this country.
Since you appear to have a certain amount of knowledge in this area, I have to ask, does it work the same way in Europe and Asia?
I am asking, because I have read about the foreign ESPN affiliates broadcasting pool events live and in their entirety. Obviously, in this country, pool has more professional sporting events to compete with, for TV time. However, it seems pool still gets no respect at all, from ESPN, compared to other parts of the world.

av84fun
12-23-2007, 05:12 PM
RichR
[ QUOTE ]
Jim, you will get no argument from me, concerning the way things work in this country.
Since you appear to have a certain amount of knowledge in this area, I have to ask, does it work the same way in Europe and Asia?
I am asking, because I have read about the foreign ESPN affiliates broadcasting pool events live and in their entirety. Obviously, in this country, pool has more professional sporting events to compete with, for TV time. However, it seems pool still gets no respect at all, from ESPN, compared to other parts of the world.<hr /></blockquote>

No, I have no information on how things work outside the U.S. But you are right that pool is hugely popular in many Asian countries...so much so that there are live tv broadcasts.

But again, it is not a mtter of ESPN "respecting" Asian matches and disrespecting American matches.

The ONLY reason that ESPN or any other network broadcasts live matches is that the viewing audience WANTS to see live broadcasts in such large numbers that advertisers are willing to buy ad time for serious money.

Trust me, if there was significant popular demand, ESPN would broadcast worm wrestling...they don't care what the sport is. They are in business to do one single thing...provide a platform for the sale of commercials.

It is not that ESPN doesn't care about pool...it is that the American public doesn't care.

I wonder whether the WPBA should consider a PaypPer-View "Superbowl" event that would pit the top 8 finishers in the 7 regular season events.

The first 4 matches could be broadcast as "highlights" just like in the Mosconi and then the semi-final and final would be shown shot for shot. That could equal AT LEAST two full hours of broadcast time.

Would I pay $5.00 to watch live??? NO BRAINER. If only half of the BCA tv audience tuned in that's $5x250,000= $1.25 million which, I suspect, whould be the most revenue for a single pool program in TV history.

Possibly, the entire WPBA season should go PPV.

Regards,
Jim

Rich R.
12-23-2007, 09:06 PM
I would watch.