PDA

View Full Version : Archer vs Strickland



jjinfla
12-20-2007, 01:45 PM
The IPT held a match last night in Chicago featuring Earl Strickland and Johnny Archer playing 8-ball in a race to 15 broadcast for free on their website.

I enjoyed the match very much. A few technical problems along the way including a sync problem with video and sound but all in all it was very good.

We can only imagine if the IPT had started out this way. A few challange matches of the very best pros for a few months and then held an invitational tournament.

Maybe hold it like boxing. A few short matches at the beginning featuring lower ranked pros with a race to 3 and then 5 and then 7 and a final match with a race to 11 or so.

Too bad we can't gamble on these matches. Google, Microsoft and somebody else were just fined $31 million total for allowing internet gambling.

I want to see a return match of Strickland and Archer.

How about one of Fisher and Ellerby? Or Gerda and Ellerby?

But then I do not hear any chatter about this event so maybe people are not interested in promoting pool, just talking about themselves.

I am sure people will find fault with this match and KT.

From what Earl said after the match I have to believe that all who took part in the match were threatened. And we wonder why Harry is down on pool. Nothing but crooks (and they have the gall to call KT a crook) and sucker punchers.

Jake

BigRigTom
12-20-2007, 05:59 PM
I registered for the free membership in the IPT so I could watch this match and there is some kind of problem with their email confirmation.
I never received the email.
I must have clicked that resend button 20 times over a period of a week and still have not received the email from them.

Who won and want was the particulars.
I bet a lot of people didn't watch for the same reason I didn't.

They also do not have a contact link on their web site.
They need a NEW web master.
I am surprised to hear you got to see it.
Give us some details!

Fran Crimi
12-20-2007, 06:23 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote jjinfla:</font><hr> The IPT held a match last night in Chicago featuring Earl Strickland and Johnny Archer playing 8-ball in a race to 15 broadcast for free on their website.

I enjoyed the match very much. A few technical problems along the way including a sync problem with video and sound but all in all it was very good.

We can only imagine if the IPT had started out this way. A few challange matches of the very best pros for a few months and then held an invitational tournament.

Maybe hold it like boxing. A few short matches at the beginning featuring lower ranked pros with a race to 3 and then 5 and then 7 and a final match with a race to 11 or so.

Too bad we can't gamble on these matches. Google, Microsoft and somebody else were just fined $31 million total for allowing internet gambling.

I want to see a return match of Strickland and Archer.

How about one of Fisher and Ellerby? Or Gerda and Ellerby?

But then I do not hear any chatter about this event so maybe people are not interested in promoting pool, just talking about themselves.

I am sure people will find fault with this match and KT.

From what Earl said after the match I have to believe that all who took part in the match were threatened. And we wonder why Harry is down on pool. Nothing but crooks (and they have the gall to call KT a crook) and sucker punchers.

Jake

<hr /></blockquote>

I think Kevin Trudeau should pay the money he owes to the players before embarking on new ventures. It's not as if he doesn't have it. I also think that the players should support each other in this before allowing Trudeau to make one more dime off of them.

It has been proven in the past over and over and over, that the divide and conquor technique applied by so many promoters always hurts the players in the long run. They have to stick together or they will get burned.

Fran

jjinfla
12-20-2007, 07:02 PM
Fran,

It is not like KT out and out ripped the players off. I really think he did have a business plan based on internet gambling and that whole world blew up. But many of the players made a lot of money thanks to him.

I am not allowed on AZB but I do read some of the IPT posts there, just not as often, and I believe the money owed the players is still trickling in. I think that 77% of the money from the last tournament has been paid to the players. Maybe more. And some of the players even were refunded qualification fees. I would have given great odds against that ever happening.

They really did have a great thing with the IPT but how many of them worked to make it successful. Most of them just wanted the money.

Fran, I am sure that over the years you knew a lot of pool players who dumped or even double dumped or borrowed money and never paid it back. I consider that a lot worse than what KT did. Yet they are considered heros in books.

Ah, it is the old pool story, leave it to a pool player to **** it up royaly. Give them a few bucks and they are not happy until they can steal all of your money.

If the IPT does come back with some kind of tournament the players will have Archer and Strickland and Sigel and Grady and a few others to thank. Think they will? I doubt it.
Instead they threaten Earl. If I follow what he said after the match. Now those are the people that should be kicked out of pool.

How is your school coming along? Do you have any promising students or are they all telling you how to teach them. It took me nine long years of a lot of practice to get good enough to realize just how bad I am and how really good you pros are. There is a lot more to this game than the average player realizes.

Jake

Nader
12-20-2007, 07:09 PM
I watched the game and enjoyed it. It was different on several levels. A small venue, it was a space with room for only 20 or so high-rollers sitting around. Actual sweators, swallowing air, as the two payers duked it out. One admitted to having 20,000 on Archer.
Pitted against each other was the stoic technocrat from Atlanta, giving lessons, as it were, of precision playing technique versus the ticking time-bomb that energized the room. Everyone seemed to have one eye on the game and one eye on the “Pearl”. Earl wears his heart on his sleeve. He can’t help it. God has made him that way. I couldn’t help but get emotionally involved. At one point (2 games to 3) Johnny started a three or four game run. The camera came back to Earl over and over again to see how he was doing. You could see him coming unwrapped. I was right there with him. He would mumble to himself and would speak with the people near him, complaining about himself, when Archer, who was shooting, finally told him he could talk when he was playing but when he’s not, “shut-up”.
A flaw in the presentation was the placement of the two announcers, Mike Segal and Grady Matthews. They were too close to the players and had to speak more softly once the game started. They seemed to be a distraction to the players. Everything they might have said about Strickland or Archer was overheard by them. At one point I thought Strickland was going to speak with Segal about being referred to as “reckless.” The announcers should have been behind sound proof plastic where they could speak more naturally.
In the end, both players gave high praise to the IPT and their efforts to elevate the game. They said that the players have never been treated so well and that those who think otherwise of the IPT should re-examine their priorities. Said Archer, KT “could have flown the coop a long time ago, but he didn’t.”

av84fun
12-20-2007, 07:26 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote jjinfla:</font><hr> Fran,

It is not like KT out and out ripped the players off. <hr /></blockquote>

Of course he ripped them off. Promising payment both before and after the tournament and then dribbling in half payment is ripping off purely and simply.

And then there is the matter of the qualifiers where LOTS of players and their backers...like me for example...were guaranteed a minimum sum for the following season which, of course, has not taken place.

Did you actually read the SEVERAL e-mails and letters that flat out LIED that the checks for payment in full were cut and on their way????

You can, of course, FORGIVE him for being a lying, cheating, ex-convict fraud artist if you want...that is clearly your business. But to state that he didn't rip the players off is just off the charts wrong.

Regards,
Jim

Nader
12-20-2007, 07:44 PM
I can't tell you who won; that would be telling. I can say this: "Who do you think should have won?" that's who won.
On your remark about the hook-up. I was connected 15 minutes before the game started. At about one minute before the start, I was dropped-kicked through the goalposts of "Server-Error." I wasn't able to get back on for quite a while. They were just starting their 6th game (out of 21?) when I was able to get back in. I figure that that many people had to give up trying before their servers could handle the load. I estimate that there must have been a hundred million people trying to watch that game at once. Either that or they've got a teeny-weeny server there at IPT.

Nader
12-20-2007, 08:27 PM
By the way, BigRigTom, That IPT game is playing for free through the end of December, according to InsidePool Magazine. so get you're connection straightened out and watch it. It includes a bunch of pregame junk, fitting the headsets and such, that will be edited out later, they say.

Qtec
12-20-2007, 10:25 PM
Please JJ, you have been an apologist for KT from the very start- then you denied it and now you are back again.

From the very beginning of the IPT , people like myself were saying that the prize money was too high and that the Qallys could never cover the costs, but KT said the tour was fully funded and was MORE the willing to INVEST 21 mil and people like youself said '21 mil is small change to KT'.

Did he ever offer any proof to back up his claims?

Eh....................No.


What KT did was try and set up a pyramid system where the masses at the bottom pay the the top players. It was never going to work.
When the danger signs were there , KT, INSTEAD of LOWERING the prize pot actually INCREASED it ,when he KNEW he didn't have the cash to cover it. [ ie there was NO WAY he would pay the players from his OWN cash!]
The consequence of this was the INABILITY to pay the players on time. ie the FedEx 'mix' up with the checks? , the check is in the mail story etc.etc

Fact is, everyone went after the cash and didn't dare ask questions. A lot of people in the industry saw a Buck to be made and didn't want to burst the bubble but a few of us 'unbelievers' on the web [with no financial involvement in the IPT ] saw thru the BS asked started to ask questions and got vilified for it- by people like you.
"We were all negative"- ring a bell?

There were SO MANY flags but KT had his faithful followers to combat any disquiet on the web- especially on AZ. Now you come here and pitch for KT like nothing has happened?

If this was a free view, why didn't you let us know beforehand? Limited bandwidth maybe?





Q /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Deeman3
12-21-2007, 08:26 AM
Nader,

UNlike you, I was not able to get the match as I had got booted and never got back to being able to watch. However, I really liked your summary of the match and the atmosphere. Thanks. Well Done!

bsmutz
12-21-2007, 12:49 PM
I tried to watch the freeview yesterday and got booted about every half rack. It was fairly easy to get it back but hard to find the place where I got booted without having to rewatch half a rack or so. It was very irritating and I ended up stopping less than half way through.

Derek
12-21-2007, 07:06 PM
I had trouble accessing the match at first, but someone posted a link at a different forum that got me in the match at 1-1. Basically, Archer shot better than Earl. There were some occasional flashes from Earl, but he spent too much time complaining and made some half-hearted shots. Archer's break was really the whole key of the match as his patterns were a lot more open than Earl's -- something Earl admitted after the match. And while there was a little bit of heat early on -- Archer telling Earl to shut up and the only way he can win is to shark someone (Mosconi after-effects?) -- Johnny was definitely a gentleman after the match with the post-match interview.

Personally, it was fun to watch a few games but I lost some interest to coincide with Earl's lack of interest.

While there is disfavor in the IPT and Kevin Trudeau, I'm all about some organized men's tour that gives us fans the opportunity to watch our favorite pros more. Nothing against the women on ESPN, but I get tired of watching them when the men play a different style, attitude, of game.

jjinfla
12-22-2007, 07:07 AM
Apologist for KT? Not me? All along I just stated what I thought was true and what he was doing for pool. Never in my wildest imagination did I think he was just throwing money away and donating it to the pros. Rich people just don't do that. I always thought there was a plan. Yes to make the pros wealthy in some cases but in the end it would make KT much wealthier.

That's what CEO's do - they get wealthier. Look at the CEO of Goldman Sachs, he received a 60 million dollar bonus and his company lost billions of dollars this year.

I spent a week at Orlando when the IPT was there. I was totally entertained and amazed by all the pros in attendance and how happy they ALL were and how extremely friendly they were. Here I am a total chump at the game and they all would talk to me. And the old timers were the best.

Did they ever in their life imagine that they would be able to get a $30,000 pay day this late in their career? Hell no.

What really amazed me was how few "fans", the so called supporters of this game, were in attendance.

I stated then, and still do now, that it was the pool community that failed the players, not KT. The pool community just didn't show up. They gave all kinds of excuses for not supporting the players but in the end they just didn't want KT and the IPT to succeed.

JAM was funny. She was so nervous watching Keith play hoping beyond hope that he would succeed. She knew it was a chance of his/their lifetime. But alas, he came up short. Still I don't hear him or her complaining about KT saying it was his fault. They both admit Keith had the opportunity and just came up short.

People should look to themselves for the blame when they don't succeed. More often than not the fault for their failure is right there in the mirror.

As far as KT making all those promises. Well, come on, you guys don't really believe in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny now do you? Sure he made a lot of pie in the sky promises. Do you really think the players actually thought they would all come true. A lot of them did though.

If you ever attend any promotion or motivation meeting by any top companies they all promise the sky. They put it way up there for all the employees to strive for and that is exactly whay KT did. Everyone knows, or should know if you have a firing neuron, that not everyone will achieve all that is promised.

There had to be a business plan for the IPT to succeed. I still think it was tied in to betting on the outcome of the games and that fell through. (You do know that Google and Microsoft and another company were fined 30 million dollars for allowing internet gambling don't you?) But had KT pulled that off then he would have become a gazzillionaire and the players would all be wealthy too. Royalties and a percentage of the gate/bet would have brought in tons of money.

The players took a shot at the big time and I will bet that if they are honest they never thought they would have received a quarter of what they did. They probably all were of the mindset that they "would ride this horse for what it's worth until they got thrown off". They are way ahead of the game.

Now there is a chance of the IPT returning in a different venue. If they can broadcast live matches once a week of top pros ala boxing or wrestling and they get people to pay to watch (who can't afford $6.00 a month? - if you can't then what business do you have telling KT how to run his business?) then they will have a viable business with tons of money coming in. Show me one pro who wouldn't want to be broadcast live on the internet knowing he would get a percentage of the paid viewers.

That was Larry Schwartz at ringside who stated he had $20,000 on Archer. He writes for Billiards Digest. Now did he really have 20 G's on the match or was he just puffing. Most likely he was kidding. Only a complete idiot would call Larry a liar if he didn't actually have the money bet. But then, pool is full of idiots.

Jake

Jake

dg-in-centralpa
12-22-2007, 05:59 PM
quote"What really amazed me was how few "fans", the so called supporters of this game, were in attendance."quote

Jake,
In my little part of the world,I play in 2 leagues with a lot of the players being in both. Out of the 100 in each, I could probably pick out a dozen who would know the male pros, a few more would know the women. It's not that I live in a hick backwoods town, the people don't care. Maybe if the pros were on live and had some heavy promotion it might be different. Like the old days when the players would go from PH to PH and promote themselves and their sponsors, maybe they could do that again. The people I play with can't understand how good a pro actually is, or a stick at Valley Forge costing $10,000 on up. It's sad but this is the way it is.

DG

av84fun
12-23-2007, 12:41 AM
Jake, you say that you are not a KT apologist and then you write a HUGE post, mostly apologizing/defending what he did.

MUCH of what you said is either flat inaccurate or defends his outright, documented, irrefutable LYING.

Such comments are too numerous to deal with individually but just FYI, Goldman Sach DID NOT lose $60 billion last year but in fact MADE over $11 billion in net income... a figure that was above expectations.

Also, IN FACT, Goldman was FAR less exposed to the sub-prime mortgage disaster than most of its competitors whose CEO's are being or have been FIRED. So get your facts straight.

And your suggestion that KT's failure was the fan's fault because they didn't show up to the events is just ridiculous!

As others have pointed out to you, KT's "plan" was enhtirely based on sucking money out of the qualifiers AND selling ads for the broadcast of the events.

BUT...very few American advertisers wanted to buy ads...for two reasons.

1. Pool is NOT a popular TV sport in America and;
2. The advertisers didn't want their companies to be associated with a convicted FELON and a man who is under CURRENT attack by Federal agencies for his UNLAWFUL advertising/marketing practices.

It is an UNDISPUTED FACT that even AFTER the end of the last event, when KT KNEW he didn't have anywhere near the money to pay off the winner...he just did what he usually does and LIES!

He is ON RECORD...IN PRINT...that the money had been sent to the winners BUT WAS LOST BY FED EX!!!

C'mon Jake.

You were just completely SUCKED IN by KT's

sharky1317
12-24-2007, 12:31 AM
It was a great match. . . . I lost some respect for Strickland. . . .All the talking he did, I was pretty shocked when Archere told him to shut up!!!!!! That was pretty interesting. . . . . It seemed like Strickland complained about everything. . . . and he didn't slow down when he shot. . . . Looked like he wasn't focused at all. Archer was the man once again. . . . . .

jjinfla
12-24-2007, 07:08 PM
Sharky, if you watch Earl play you will realize that what you see is what you get. There have been times when he was playing that I would just leave and go watch someone else because he was in one of his bad moods. But there are so many times when he is in stroke and just making everything that he is a pleasure to watch. A pure joy.

Earl needs a manager like the wrestlers have. Someone to control him and explain his actions to the crowd. Someone who can rant and rave about how Earl got robbed by the table and all the lousy rolls. Ha Ha. But Earl sure does draw a crowd.

Archer got a little testy there didn't he. Ha Ha. I was surprised that there wasn't more banter between the two. Remember, they were miked, and they were miked for a reason.

We need a rematch. Earl had a bad day.

It's showtime.

Oh, a few years ago when I was playing in the APA I went around to the players and asked them to name three pros. I'd say 90% of them couldn't. Like you say, there just is no interest in watching the pros play.

Jake

jjinfla
12-24-2007, 07:30 PM
AV84FUN,

Okay Kevin lied. Or was that Deno who lied when he said the money was lost. Whatever. So he lied. So what? That's only a venial sin. Probably only two Hail Mary's at the most.

If they told the players the truth at the time that they didn't have the money then they would have taken the chance of being mobbed. So they did what any good pool hustler would do, went into the bathroom, climbed out the window, and hightailed it out of there.

But like you say advertisers won't buy ads because pool is not a popular TV sport. Sounds exactly like what I was saying, the pool community will not support pool.

Oh well, it's over and most likely will never come back, you guys were right, and as long as people have your negative pool mentality the pros might as well give up the hope of the big time.

But let's face it, what I or you say has no consequence in what happens to the pros but it sure is a lot more fun talking about the IPT and Kevin and Earl than it is talking about what color chalk to use, or what kind of tip should I use, or what kind of shaft should should I use or do people sandbag, etc, etc, ad nauseum.

Jake

av84fun
12-30-2007, 12:15 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote jjinfla:</font><hr> AV84FUN,

Okay Kevin lied. Or was that Deno who lied when he said the money was lost. Whatever. So he lied. So what? That's only a venial sin. Probably only two Hail Mary's at the most.<hr /></blockquote>

You are apologizing for them again.


[ QUOTE ]
If they told the players the truth at the time that they didn't have the money then they would have taken the chance of being mobbed. So they did what any good pool hustler would do, went into the bathroom, climbed out the window, and hightailed it out of there.<hr /></blockquote>

You are apologizing for them again.


[ QUOTE ]
Oh well, it's over and most likely will never come back, you guys were right, and as long as people have your negative pool mentality the pros might as well give up the hope of the big time.<hr /></blockquote>

It is NOT "negative" to be opposed to liars and cheats. In fact, apologizing for them is negative because it tends to reinforce that sort of behavior.

But I think you have well established that you are perfectly fine with cheating, lying and doing serios financial harm, not only to the top pros but HUNDREDS of players who literally spent their grocery money to get on the tour.

It is, of course, your choice to sympathize with whatever you want. But it is just as clearly, the choice of others to disrespect you for doing so.

Jim