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S0Noma
12-21-2007, 10:39 AM
Iran: Top cleric says women without veils must die

Tehran, 19 Dec. (AKI) - A top Muslim cleric in Iran, Hojatolislam Gholam Reza Hassani said on Wednesday that women in Iran who do not wear the hijab or Muslim headscarf, should die.

"Women who do not respect the hijab and their husbands deserve to die," said Hassani, who leads Friday prayers in the city of Urumieh, in Iranian Azerbaijan.

"I do not understand how these women who do not respect the hijab, 28 years after the birth of the Islamic Republic, are still alive," he said.

"These women and their husbands and their fathers must die," said Hassani, who is the representative of the Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Seyyed Ali Khamenei in eastern Azerbaijan.

Hassani's statements came after two Kurdish feminists in Iran were accused of being members of an armed rebel group and of carrying out subversive activities threatening the security of the state.

It is believed that his statements and the arrests could spark a fresh crackdown on women who do not repect the Islamic dress code in Iran.

Thousands of women in Iran have already been warned this year for their "un-Islamic dress" such as wearing tight, short coats and skimpy headscarves.

http://www.adnkronos.com/AKI/Assets/Imgs/Geografia/Iran/iran%20dress%20code02--200x150.jpg

Gayle in MD
12-21-2007, 11:15 AM
Bush's polices have been a real disaster for Iran, and it is truly a shame. The country was moving toward moderation, and a much more Western culture, women making advances in womens' rights, and redical religious leaders losing power over the population.

Then came Bush, and his threats, and progress turned to a resurgence in religious persecution.

It's really a tragedy, especially for the women.

Gayle in Md.

Deeman3
12-21-2007, 11:32 AM
Yes, they were treated so well before Bush messed it all up for them. Saddam and his sons certainly respected the rights of the women in their country. I see the light now. Bush Evil, albiet for him, they'd all be in bikinis by now.

S0Noma
12-21-2007, 11:46 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman3:</font><hr> Yes, they were treated so well before Bush messed it all up for them. Saddam and his sons certainly respected the rights of the women in their country. I see the light now. Bush Evil, albiet for him, they'd all be in bikinis by now. <hr /></blockquote>

I'm inclined to agree with you here, Dee.

IMHO: It's religious fundamentalism that lies at the heart of many of the problems in those Muslim countries - as it often has in our own country.

Bush may be aggravating the problem but it's a problem that existed well before he took office and unfortunately, it looks like it will continue long after he's gone.

Gayle in MD
12-21-2007, 11:46 AM
We were discussing Iran, not Iraq, which did have a despot in place, among many many others in the world, without any oil present, perhaps, but nevertheless, even more horrific crimes against humanity taking place, daily.

Are you saying that the country, Iran, was not heading toward a more Westernized, and more moderate political venue, and that our illegal invasion of Iraq, along with the saber rattling coming from Bush, didn't head that movement off?

Gayle in Md.

LWW
12-21-2007, 12:52 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> We were discussing Iran, not Iraq, which did have a despot in place, among many many others in the world, without any oil present, perhaps, but nevertheless, even more horrific crimes against humanity taking place, daily.

Are you saying that the country, Iran, was not heading toward a more Westernized, and more moderate political venue, and that our illegal invasion of Iraq, along with the saber rattling coming from Bush, didn't head that movement off?

Gayle in Md. <hr /></blockquote>
Would you say that no Islamic fundamentalist nation existed until Carter deposed the Shah and gave Iran to Khomeini?

LWW

Deeman3
12-21-2007, 01:31 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Are you saying that the country, Iran, was not heading toward a more Westernized, and more moderate political venue, and that our illegal invasion of Iraq, along with the saber rattling coming from Bush, didn't head that movement off?

Gayle in Md. <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue">Now I see your talking Iraq. However, Iran has vascilated between the radical Muslim clergy and some attempts by students (often put down by force) for decades. If you make that argument, you can ask if Iran was not more open and free for women under the Sha ? I don't think so, even pre-Bush, 1st or 2nd.

Treatment of women in Islamic countries is barbaric even in the best circumstances. Treatment in extreame Westerm Christian cultures is not great either but those numbers pale in comparison to Islamic countries. My hope and belief is that, long term, women's futures will be better, somewhat, in those places because they adopt some western values. If Iran, for instance, had homosexuals (we know from the Iranisn leadership they do not), this might become an issue as well. Your belief that Bush's move in the Middle East has ade the plight of women worse would be apparent, for instance, in the teaming, flaming gays that had the right to run the streets in Iran prior to the Iraq War. Wait, they (If they had existed) would have just as subject to persecution as they are now.

Gayle, you will always try to make all evils of the world Bush's fault. That's why you only have credibility among those who share that view. You still won't explain why the Democratic legislature who you promised would clean all this mess up has done nothing and suffers even worse numbers than Bush. Your dream girl, Pelosi, is still picking out carpet color over a year later. First 100 hours indeed!

I know it is upsetting to you that the war has gone much better recently as well and that Bush personally gave out all those sub-prime mortages personally but there has to be something in your tool chest other than Bush is the Devil.

You are perfectly willing to overlook the horrific crimes against humanity as long as they happened pre-Bush. Aren't you? Be honest... </font color>

wolfdancer
12-21-2007, 02:44 PM
I didn't know GWB was in the mortgage business...I'm thinking of refinancing....maybe I can go through Neil's old bank, and GW can pick up a finder's fee, and make a few bucks. Last I heard though, the bank went under.
After six years, I'd hope that there would be some progress in the war. It took us only 4 years to defeat the combined armies of Germany, Japan, and Italy...and they had an Air Force (Few Combat Aces in this war, I'm afraid to say)
Re: the democratic majority Congress. Ain't like they got an overwhelming edge...and there's that Presidential veto looming in the background (and GW loves that to use that toy)
I've now come to admire the restraint that the Democrats have shown....it ain't like in high school, where you can pull out before the real damage is done....the real damage has already been done in Iraq. I believe they are not pushing hard against either the war, or the war President, for two reasons:
Bush, however flawed I believe him to be, is the leader of this country....if his policies, and he, are exposed to look even worse then now....it reflects badly on, and weakens this country further, in world opinion.
And, if they do have some brilliant plan, which I doubt, to end this quagmire, get this country back on tract...why not wait until the new President is installed, and have her take full credit for that (Hail, Queen Hillary!!!)
Anything, anybody, would be an improvement over GWB, even another Republican, as long as his first name wasn't Dick.
We've already had too many "Dicks" in the WH, these past 7 years......

SKennedy
12-21-2007, 02:50 PM
I heard there was an earthquake somewhere in the world. That dang Bush and his crew!! It'a all his fault....if his A$$-hole wasn't so tight, these quakes would not occur!!

Ms. Gayle....why is it that anything negative in this world is always Bush's fault?

Gayle in MD
12-22-2007, 08:46 AM
Your unfair accusations aside, my point was that Bush's Middle East policies were responsible for a reversal in the moderate trend that was occuring in Iran.

To suggest that any reduction of violence in Iraq would upset me, is really insulting, and hurts me a great deal that you would make such a sugggestion, but then, you don't know me, and your party demands such attacks against all who question your leader.

I only hold Bush responsible for his own policies, and behavior.

Being credible with Bush supporters is not a goal of mine, I'm not s stupid person.

I have been carefully watching the votes, and although the Democrats have tried to improve on many of the problems we are facing, they have been blocked by Republicans, and demonized by Bush throughout. I approve of those things which they have tried to accomplish, however, and hope that enough Republicans will be thrown out of Washington D.C. in time that we can escape from the damage of Bush, et al, in time to save our democracy, protect our country, save lives that are being un-necessarily lost, and damaged, and restore our honor in the world.

I never overlook crimes against humanity. I hope someday, that you may muster enough determination to discuss these issues with me, without the personal attacks against my character, however, I don't really think that will ever happen.

<font color="red">Merry Christmas, and Happy New Year, Deeman. </font color>

LWW
12-22-2007, 09:07 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Your unfair accusations aside, my point was that Bush's Middle East policies were responsible for a reversal in the moderate trend that was occuring in Iran. <hr /></blockquote>
Your incoherent rants aside, my point is that I will expose you as a fraud who cowers in fear at the thought of actually having to defend your position with someone who isn't a mindtrashed dembot.

Now, how's about just for Christmas you face your fans just once with something resembling coherence?

Would you say that no Islamic fundamentalist nation existed until Carter deposed the Shah and gave Iran to Khomeini?

LWW

Gayle in MD
12-22-2007, 09:31 AM
You're using exactly the extreme tactics that have been used all along by Republicans, and this administration. Any statements I have made accusing Bush, have been laid at his feet because he is calling the shots.

When I was critical of his handling of Katrina, the right said I was blaming him for the hurricane. An idiotic accusation, to say the least. Of course, it came out that he lied about what he had been told in advance of land fall, and we all know he didn't even turn on the TV to check on the American people, (but alas, he was doing more important things, fund raising, and fishing) who were there, and below sea level, and he had to be handed a video, at the eleventh hour, as he made his in depth investigation, from the comfort of Air Force 1, and was resposible for the appointments of all those whose incompetence was evident, notwithstanding any misjudgements by the local leaders, Federal assistance has been dismal at best, and wasteful, and continues to be so to this day.

Iraq, is not Bush's war? Who launched this war?

Our massive debt, not his fault, either?

Our increasing numbers of hungry children in this country, no reflection on Bush's policies?

Bush, not involved in outing a covert agent? Five thousand missing e-mails, incorrectly and illegally sent through RNC accounts? Irretreivable? He didn't promise to fire those involved? He didn't get Libby off the hook?

I needn't list all the incompetence, and failures yet again, however, regardless of your twisting and turning of my own accusations against this president, and his administration, his policies have thrown gas on the fire in the Middle East, and I certainly don't have to defend any accusations I have launched against him.

[ QUOTE ]
Ms. Gayle....why is it that anything negative in this world is always Bush's fault? <hr /></blockquote>

Just another attempt on your part to give Bush a bye when in reality, he IS the Commander and Chief, and hence, the buck stops with him, much as you would like to deny that, that is the reality. I hold him accountable for his incompetence, and deciet, and all the damage his has caused to my country. Nothing more, nothing less.

Gayle in Md.

Qtec
12-22-2007, 09:48 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman3:</font><hr> Yes, they were treated so well before Bush messed it all up for them. Saddam and his sons certainly respected the rights of the women in their country. I see the light now. Bush Evil, albiet for him, they'd all be in bikinis by now. <hr /></blockquote>

[ QUOTE ]
The term hijab or veil is not used in the Qur'an to refer to an article of clothing for women or men, rather it refers to a spatial curtain that divides or provides privacy. The Qur'an instructs the male believers (Muslims) to talk to wives of Muhammad behind a hijab. This hijab was the responsibility of the men and not the wives of Muhammad. However, in later Muslim societies this instruction specific to the wives of Muhammad was generalized, leading to the segregation of the Muslim men and women. The modesty in Qur'an concerns both men's and women's gaze, gait, garments, and genitalia. The clothing for women involves khum&amp;#363;r over the necklines and jilbab (cloaks) in public so that they may be identified and not harmed. Guidelines for covering of the entire body except for the hands, the feet, and the face, are found in texts of fiqh and hadith that are developed later. <hr /></blockquote>

The extreme covering of almost all the body does not come from the Quran, its more tradition than Islamic Law.

Gayle is correct. Iran did have a moderate Pres but he got no support from the US.
For years the extremists in Iran and in other countries have been spreading their hate for the West and the US. When GW invaded Iraq on the premise of self protection and found no WMDs ie no reason to invade, it only made the extremists more believable to the masses.

Imagine being a US supporter in Iran after that?

Q

Sid_Vicious
12-22-2007, 03:34 PM
Gayle...You can't teach a mule to understand, they're just made that way. Bush is EXACTLY the responsible one, we both know that is the facts. It is totally atrocious that the best president was impeached for being a simple man, and then this one is damaging us so badly, lies so poorly, killing young American soldiers as I type, for a war of HIS own, AND Bush has not been kicked the hell out of the WH and in prison. We have big problems in this democracy of ours....sid

bamadog
12-22-2007, 05:42 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr>
I only hold Bush responsible for his own policies, and behavior.


I never overlook crimes against humanity. I hope someday, that you may muster enough determination to discuss these issues with me, without the personal attacks against my character, however, I don't really think that will ever happen.

<font color="red">Merry Christmas, and Happy New Year, Deeman. </font color> <hr /></blockquote>

Gayle, Clinton refused to intercede in Rwanda.
Several hundred thousand people were slaughtered.
Are you going to hold Clinton responsible for their deaths?
Since Hillary has claimed she was deeply involved in foreign policy decisions during Bill's Presidency, are you going to hold her responsible as well.
Are you going to withhold your vote for her because of this tragedy?

BTW, I see that you are, once again, painting yourself as a victim of personal attacks, all the while, continuing to sling trash at anyone who disagrees with you. Do you not see the hypocrisy in this?

LWW
12-22-2007, 06:41 PM
I'm awaiting Gayle's scathing rebuke of Nazi Pelosi and her involvement in aiding and abetting the most criminal POTUS in our nation's history while he waterboarded people who were guilty of nothing more than the premeditated murder of 2,996 innocent Americans.

Come on Gaylie, I know you are hard at work on it. Let em have it.

LWW

Gayle in MD
12-23-2007, 08:10 AM
I agree entirely Martin. Thankfully, so do most Americans, as we see the majority of voters are determined not to cast their votes to any Republican for President.

Americans aren't stupid. They saw Bush fail to veto any spending bill during six years of Republican free for all spending, during wartime, and the resulting massive debt, only to hear nothing but veto threats since the last Congressional election, and the Democratic win, albiet too slim to overturn the veto.


Reading the statements and warnings from Carter, so many years ago, reminds us of what it was like to have a president who spoke the truth about our circumstances if we continued this dependency on foreign oil. As we now pay subsidies to big oil, which is enjoying the greatest corporate profits in history, while simultaneously being gouged at the pump, and view the policies of former big oil representatives, and investors, which now control the White House, and the veto power, Americans have observed exactly what happens when the Republican/corporate cabal takes over our country.

Hearing Bill and Hillary Clinton speak about the challenges we face, and how they can be utilized to create jobs, and a cleaner environment, safer from the Middle East hold on our country, is reminicent of Carter, whose solar panels were promptly removed from the roof of the White House by Ronald Reagan, another big business puppet who cut taxes, without cutting spending, and grew the size of government, just as Bush has done.

It is refreshing to hear Democratic Candidates speak about "Government" without bastardizing the word, and Americans are beginning to recall the times when Democratic principles and policies made us thankful to live in a country where our government was our friend, there for us in disasters, there for the hungry, the ill, the old, and able to address honestly the hard facts that should be faced, as Carter did when he warned us of how unstable America would be if we did not address our issues on foreign dependency for our energy requirements.

Bush's subsidies, along with his corporate friendly tax cuts, for corporations which are outsourcing our jobs, and encouraging cheap labor to invade, and hiding their money in the Carribbean, are disasterous. Tax cuts, while at the same time spending like drunken sailors, launching un-necessary war, with a country far from being an immediate threat, and in fact, had been sucessfully subdued through sanctions, has led us to this critical moment. We now have more enemies, more power available to our enemies, higher oil prices, greater dependency, huge foreign debt, held by potential enemies, namely a communist country. China, while poisoning us from abroad, is using it's great wealth, compliments partially to Bush's failure to address their unfair trading practices, to build huge armed forces, and parlay their windfall into great global power and influence.

The threats on our horizon are clear and present dangers, and Americans have observed how the worst administration in history, has weakened our ability to address them. There will be no Republican President in the next election, thankfully, and issues like homosexuality, and abortion, will become unimportant to the majoirty, as the real results, created by this administration, come home to roost.
fortunately, or unfortunately, the results are too big, and too obvious to be covered and hidden with buzz words, and denials. We know where we stand, bin Laden free, Iraq in shambles, Afghanistan becoming more violent, oil prices high, debt and iinterest on debt, building daily, manufacturing down, health care costs up, pharmeceuticals included, a loss of American pride, and global influence, weakening protections of our privacy rights, executive power being abused, and a loss of trust in our government. The greatest foreclosure rate since the Great Depression, 70% of Americans believe we are in a recession, and predictions of a continuing decline in the dollar, stuck in a situation of having to do something to re-build Iraq, as our own infrastructure remains in decline, while Bush tells us that the economy is strong. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Only a nut would vote for a Republican, and more of the same growing corporate fascism. The nutty 28% will vote alone, not in concert with other voters.


<font color="red">Merry Christmas Martin, and a Happy Healthy New Year, friend.
Love,
Gayle</font color>

LWW
12-23-2007, 08:20 AM
How about the moonbats that support even LESS populat peeps Gaylie, you know ... the ones who were in on waterboarding, the ones who seem to have wanted stricter tactics used, the ones who the Bushies seem to have acted as the voice of reason to, how about your opinion on them Gaylie?

http://www.thepeoplescube.com/images/Harry_Reid_Book_HowTo.gif

LWW