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S0Noma
12-24-2007, 12:46 AM
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints -- hereafter known as the Mormons -- was founded by a gifted opportunist who, despite couching his text in openly plagiarized Christian terms, announced that "I shall be to this generation a new Muhammad" and adopted as his fighting slogan the words, which he thought he had learned from Islam, "Either the al-Koran or the sword." He was too ignorant to know that if you use the word al you do not need another definite article, but then he did resemble Muhammad in being able only to make a borrowing out of other people's bibles.

In March, 1826, a court in Bainbridge, N.Y., convicted a 21- year-old man of being "a disorderly person and an impostor." That ought to have been all we ever heard of Joseph Smith, who at trial admitted to defrauding citizens by organizing mad golddigging expeditions and also to claiming to possess dark or "necromantic" powers. However, within four years he was back in the local newspapers (all of which one may still read) as the discoverer of the "Book of Mormon." He had two huge local advantages which most mountebanks and charlatans do not possess. First, he was operating in the same hectically pious district that gave us the Shakers and several other self-proclaimed American prophets. So notorious did this local tendency become that the region became known as the "Burned- Over District," in honour of the way in which it had surrendered to one religious craze after another. Second, he was operating in an area which, unlike large tracts of the newly opening North America, did possess the signs of an ancient history.

A vanished and vanquished Indian civilization had bequeathed a considerable number of burial mounds, which when randomly and amateurishly desecrated were found to contain not merely bones but also quite advanced artifacts of stone, copper and beaten silver. There were eight of these sites within 12 miles of the underperforming farm which the Smith family called home. There were two equally stupid schools or factions who took a fascinated interest in such matters: The first were the gold-diggers and treasurediviners who brought their magic sticks and crystals and stuffed toads to bear in the search for lucre, and the second those who hoped to find the resting place of a lost tribe of Israel. Smith's cleverness was to be a member of both groups, and to unite cupidity with half-baked anthropology.

The actual story of the imposture is almost embarrassing to read, and almost embarrassingly easy to uncover. (It has been best told by Dr. Fawn Brodie, whose 1945 book No Man Knows My History was a good-faith attempt by a professional historian to put the kindest possible interpretation on the relevant "events.") In brief, Joseph Smith announced that he had been visited (three times, as is customary) by an angel named Moroni. The said angel informed him of a book, "written upon gold plates," which explained the origins of those living on the North American continent as well as the truths of the Gospel. There were, further, two magic stones, set in the twin breastplates Urim and Thummim of the Old Testament, that would enable Smith himself to translate the aforesaid book. After many wrestlings, he brought this buried apparatus home with him on Sept. 21, 1827, about 18 months after his conviction for fraud. He then set about producing a translation.

The resulting "books" turned out to be a record set down by ancient prophets, beginning with Nephi, son of Lephi, who had fled Jerusalem in approximately 600 BC and come to America. Many battles, curses and afflictions accompanied their subsequent wanderings and those of their numerous progeny. How did the books turn out to be this way? Smith refused to show the golden plates to anybody, claiming that for other eyes to view them would mean death. But he encountered a problem that will be familiar to students of Islam. He was extremely glib and fluent as a debater and story-weaver, as many accounts attest. But he was illiterate, at least in the sense that while he could read a little, he could not write. A scribe was therefore necessary to take his inspired dictation.

This scribe was at first his wife, Emma, and then, when more hands were necessary, a luckless neighbour named Martin Harris. Hearing Smith cite the words of Isaiah 29, verses 11-12, concerning the repeated injunction to "Read," Harris mortgaged his farm to help in the task and moved in with the Smiths. He sat on one side of a blanket hung across the kitchen, and Smith sat on the other with his translation stones, intoning through the blanket. As if to make this an even happier scene, Harris was warned that if he tried to glimpse the plates, or look at the prophet, he would be struck dead.

Mrs. Harris was having none of this, and was already furious with the fecklessness of her husband. She stole the first 116 pages and challenged Smith to reproduce them, as presumably -- given his power of revelation -- he could. (Determined women like this appear far too seldom in the history of religion.) After a very bad few weeks, the ingenious Smith countered with another revelation. He could not replicate the original, which might be in the Devil's hands by now and open to a "satanic verses" interpretation. But the all-foreseeing Lord had meanwhile furnished some smaller plates, indeed the very plates of Nephi, which told a fairly similar tale. With infinite labour, the translation was resumed, with new scriveners behind the blanket as occasion demanded, and when it was completed all the original golden plates were transported to Heaven, where apparently they remain to this day.

Mormon partisans sometimes say, as do Muslims, that this cannot have been fraudulent because the work of deception would have been too much for one poor and illiterate man. They have on their side two useful points: If Muhammad was ever convicted in public of fraud and attempted necromancy, we have no record of the fact, and Arabic is a language that is somewhat opaque even to the fairly fluent outsider. However, we know the Koran to be made up in part of earlier books and stories, and in the case of Smith it is likewise a simple if tedious task to discover that 25,000 words of the Book of Mormon are taken directly from the Old Testament. These words can mainly be found in the chapters of Isaiah available in Ethan Smith's View of the Hebrews: The Ten Tribes of Israel in America. This then popular work by a pious loony, claiming that the American Indians originated in the Middle East, seems to have started the other Smith on his gold-digging in the first place. A further 2,000 words of the Book of Mormon are taken from the New Testament. Of the 350 "names" in the book, more than 100 come straight from the Bible and 100 more are as near stolen as makes no difference.

The great Mark Twain famously referred to it as "chloroform in print," but I accuse him of hitting too soft a target, since the book does actually contain "The Book of Ether." The words "and it came to pass" can be found at least 2,000 times, which does admittedly have a soporific effect. Quite recent scholarship has exposed every single other Mormon "document" as at best a scrawny compromise and at worst a pitiful fake, as Dr. Brodie was obliged to notice when she reissued and updated her remarkable book in 1973.

Like Muhammad, Smith could produce divine revelations at short notice and often simply to suit himself (especially, and like Muhammad, when he wanted a new girl and wished to take her as another wife). As a result, he overreached himself and came to a violent end, having meanwhile excommunicated almost all the poor men who had been his first disciples and who had been browbeaten into taking his dictation. Still, this story raises some very absorbing questions, concerning what happens when a plain racket turns into a serious religion before our eyes.

web page (http://www.rickross.com/reference/mormon/mormon391.html)

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wolfdancer
12-24-2007, 03:31 AM
R, that's an interesting story, a somewhat more detailed version of the recent documentary shown on the history channel.

S0Noma
12-24-2007, 08:35 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> R, that's an interesting story, a somewhat more detailed version of the recent documentary shown on the history channel.
<hr /></blockquote>

Sometimes the History Channel doesn't provide as much information as one might like. Here are a couple more links that you might find interesting:

A Seer Stone and a Hat - "Translating" the Book of Mormon (http://www.mrm.org/topics/book-mormon/seer-stone-and-hat-translating-book-mormon)

Joseph's Urum &amp; Thummim, a.k.a., his Magic Seer Stone (http://www.geocities.com/exmormon2000/seerstone.html)

moblsv
12-24-2007, 10:20 AM
The history of the Mormons by South Park. The summary is actually very accurate.

http://www.vidilife.com/video_play_1103574_South_Park_All_About_Mormons.ht m

LWW
12-24-2007, 10:25 AM
I'm sorry, I thought you said Goremons and not Mormans.

http://www.thepeoplescube.com/images/Goran_Climatologists.jpg

The Holy Scripture as spaketh byeth
Saint Albert of Green Acres and
acceptedeth withouteth question byeth
moonbats far and wide!

hondo
12-24-2007, 03:34 PM
Very good. Add to this that urim &amp; thummin allowed
Smith to translate the books into King James English to give it absolute credibility. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

wolfdancer
12-24-2007, 03:43 PM
I notice the addition to your thread from the one who's new "demand" is to make peace, or else.
He had nothing on point to add; apparently knows little about the topic....but it seems to me that he believes all threads should be somehow centered around him, thus the moronic reply.

S0Noma
12-24-2007, 03:57 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> I notice the addition to your thread from the one who's new "demand" is to make peace, or else.
He had nothing on point to add; apparently knows little about the topic....but it seems to me that he believes all threads should be somehow centered around him, thus the moronic reply.
<hr /></blockquote>

It's cuz he confused moronic with mormonic. With him that kind of stuff happens all the time. Not to mention that if he thinks he can hijack a thread with non-sequitur right wing blather? He will.

S0Noma
12-24-2007, 05:05 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote moblsv:</font><hr> The history of the Mormons by South Park. The summary is actually very accurate.

http://www.vidilife.com/video_play_1103574_South_Park_All_About_Mormons.ht m <hr /></blockquote>

Yes it is - here's another good link to the South Park show:

web page (http://www.i4m.com/think/southpark/)

LWW
12-24-2007, 06:30 PM
I demanded nothing, but of course you knew that.

What I've told you pinky is that your guys days of running a brownshirted fascist nuthouse where you assault all that disagree at will is over.

I can outdebate the group of you working at it PT, and that is not because of my brilliance ... it is because of you being completely intellectually barren.

What I have offered is peace to you if you want it. If you prefer to live the life of a hunchbacked troll then so be it.

LWW

LWW
12-24-2007, 06:34 PM
No, it's because after I bloodied the nattering nabobs of negativism and left in peace, this forum's minions healed up and ... led by hondo ... again traipsed their Kansas City Swisher Sweet arses over to AZB to brag about how I was ran off the forum over here.

So, once again, your arrogance and complete lack of manners is the cause of your problems. You created with your black hearted hatred the enemy that you now face. So long as this group arrogantly and pompously picks fights and then whines like little girls when they get bloodied for their aggression ... well, I'll just have to keep knocking the heads off their zombielike corpses.

MERRY CHRISTMAS!

LWW

wolfdancer
12-24-2007, 06:59 PM
the replies to both yours and my posts....leave me further wondering about the man's mental state.
There are recurring themes running through all his posts..
how he is figuratively kicking butt over over here, and how he is feared by all.....yet all I read is vacuous insults, at the junior H.S. level.

S0Noma
12-24-2007, 07:30 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote hondo:</font><hr> Very good. Add to this that urim &amp; thummin allowed
Smith to translate the books into King James English to give it absolute credibility. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif <hr /></blockquote>

No kidding - couldn't have been easy...

http://webpages.charter.net/micah/thismitt1.jpg

Qtec
12-24-2007, 10:41 PM
Give it a break guys. This constant bickering is getting out of hand.
Its getting boring. I suggest you both drop the childish signatures and try and have a decent discussion without the clawing of eyes.
LLW, you say to AZ that you are heading over to the CCB to kick ass. Is that any way to join a forum?
If you come here to discuss and share you are more than welcome. We always need fresh blood.

S, you should know better. He was wrong , you were right but he is never going to admit it. let it go.

Merry Xmas guys.

Q

wolfdancer
12-25-2007, 12:18 AM
R, here's a short, but interesting, 8 minute video...
web page (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfRnSb2RZPc)

LWW
12-25-2007, 06:18 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> Give it a break guys. This constant bickering is getting out of hand.
Its getting boring. I suggest you both drop the childish signatures and try and have a decent discussion without the clawing of eyes.
LLW, you say to AZ that you are heading over to the CCB to kick ass. Is that any way to join a forum?
If you come here to discuss and share you are more than welcome. We always need fresh blood.

S, you should know better. He was wrong , you were right but he is never going to admit it. let it go.

Merry Xmas guys.

Q <hr /></blockquote>
Qlueless, I came over because I was dared, challenged, and invited and then the process repeated.

If y'all want peace all you need do is act peaceful.

I have seen no improvement in tolerance by you and your brownshirted buddys.

If and when I do I will consider leaving you in peace.

In my dreams I would wish that issues could actually be discussed here ... but the neolibs have no interest, instead preferring to live in a fantasy land where the DNC is solving the world's problems and not pimping the moonbats.

LWW

hondo
12-25-2007, 07:48 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> Give it a break guys. This constant bickering is getting out of hand.
Its getting boring. I suggest you both drop the childish signatures and try and have a decent discussion without the clawing of eyes.
LLW, you say to AZ that you are heading over to the CCB to kick ass. Is that any way to join a forum?
If you come here to discuss and share you are more than welcome. We always need fresh blood.

S, you should know better. He was wrong , you were right but he is never going to admit it. let it go.

Merry Xmas guys.

Q <hr /></blockquote>

Sounds good to me , Q. I'm sure that he who must not be named will respond to your post in a humble &amp; forgiving manner.
Have a wonderful Christmas, my friend.

LWW
12-25-2007, 07:56 AM
I forgave you long ago houndo, it's just that I have to school you after you chose to make the Christmas Season a urination contest.

All you need to do houndo is stop being naughty and start being nice.

LWW

Drop1
12-25-2007, 06:53 PM
Would you like a kleenex Sir Blow Hard,or would you prefer to continue vaunting through your tears? Imitations of SONoma,with the photos,shows what a hollow man you really are,and I noticed you even copied "Yawn" as a response. You are not fighting anything,just masturbating your ego. You have nowhere to go,and nothing new to offer,so stick around,and keep us laughing,at your hate.
Quote LWW "What are we,if they would only listen"