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JohnnyP
12-24-2007, 07:58 PM
Scott, Fran, Fred, all others that can draw the ball effortlessly, please make a short video and post it on youtube.

Thanks.

Qtec
12-24-2007, 09:39 PM
I,m not a power draw specialist but I have a couple of examples of getting good draw .....without the power. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif



Merry Xmas.

Qtec /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif web page (http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=Al1471&p=r)

DeadCrab
12-25-2007, 07:49 AM
Excellent run-out.

If I may ask, did you decide ahead to try and run the rack without hitting a rail, or did it just unfold that way?

Hard to tell from the vid, but it appears that you were hitting center ball draw and follow, mostly. Or was there more english used than can be seen?

Fran Crimi
12-25-2007, 09:57 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote JohnnyP:</font><hr> Scott, Fran, Fred, all others that can draw the ball effortlessly, please make a short video and post it on youtube.

Thanks.


<hr /></blockquote>

It's an interesting idea, Johnny, but for me, I'm not really sure how I feel about posting things up on youtube. There are proprietary issues that I have mixed feelings about, and I think others should think about those as well.

The other thing is that I'm sure you know that whoever does post something is going to post a successful shot. They're not going to post the missed attempts. True success in pool is when you can perform on demand, as in competition. There's no way to be assured that someone who posts a shot didn't experience several missed attempts first.

You can argue that the purpose is to study someone's technique, but what good is a technique if the person is only successful one out of 5 times?

I'd much rather watch clips of players shooting a successful shot in competition. Then we know for sure that they're not doing it over again just to make a good impression.

Fran

JohnnyP
12-25-2007, 05:08 PM
Landon drawing a rock. I love it.

http://www.landonshuffett.com/IT01_000.wmv

Fran Crimi
12-25-2007, 05:55 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote JohnnyP:</font><hr> Landon drawing a rock. I love it.

http://www.landonshuffett.com/IT01_000.wmv
<hr /></blockquote>

This is exactly my point about proprietary concerns, folks. Those of you who know Landon and his Dad know what that means. Be careful what you put out there because you can't take it back so easily. Then you leave yourself open to predators and exploitation.

JohnnyP
12-25-2007, 06:37 PM
Fran: We all know AO is scummy. What's the harm in a short clip like this?

Or do you feel it's like music, where the artist gets a check every time it's aired?

I don't make my living teaching pool, so if that's what's holding you back, I understand. But, hey, why not post a clip or two as a promo to drum up more business?

I've spent a few C's for lessons this year, so I'm not a cheap skate. Didn't cover draw, though, so go figure. If I could consistently draw well, I'd make videos from all angles and post it.

Scott Lee
12-26-2007, 12:22 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote JohnnyP:</font><hr> I've spent a few C's for lessons this year, so I'm not a cheap skate. Didn't cover draw, though, so go figure. <hr /></blockquote>

Don't you have to ask yourself why? Any lesson should cover this as a basic stroke application, imo.

Scott Lee

JohnnyP
12-26-2007, 05:31 AM
Scott:

It was primarily to learn strategies. I was getting ready for my first straight pool event and Wayne didn't want to mess with my stroke. Earlier in the year he gave me some free advice, and said I needed to improve my ball control, so he showed me the "L" drill. He can do it at will and make it look so easy. I would try that for three or four hours non stop, two or three nights a week, then I finally got through it one night. I showed him the blue triangle of chalk in the starting area, left from my tip. He said I probably hit 700 balls that night.

Short clip of me on a bar table. Exaggerated backstroke, little follow through.
http://www.jandssafeguard.com/JohnnyP'sStroke/stroke3.avi

Artemus
12-26-2007, 08:13 AM
OK, here is my power draw. This is as good as it gets.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tom8S9m8VNg

Eat your heart out Scott and Steve! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Rich R.
12-26-2007, 08:15 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Artemus:</font><hr> OK, here is my power draw. This is as good as it gets.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tom8S9m8VNg

Eat your heart out Scott and Steve! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <hr /></blockquote>
I hope this was a joke. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

randyg
12-26-2007, 08:35 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote JohnnyP:</font><hr> Scott:

It was primarily to learn strategies. I was getting ready for my first straight pool event and Wayne didn't want to mess with my stroke. Earlier in the year he gave me some free advice, and said I needed to improve my ball control, so he showed me the "L" drill. He can do it at will and make it look so easy. I would try that for three or four hours non stop, two or three nights a week, then I finally got through it one night. I showed him the blue triangle of chalk in the starting area, left from my tip. He said I probably hit 700 balls that night.

Short clip of me on a bar table. Exaggerated backstroke, little follow through.
http://www.jandssafeguard.com/JohnnyP'sStroke/stroke3.avi <hr /></blockquote>

Improved cueball control starts with a stroke.....SPF=randyg

pooltchr
12-26-2007, 08:54 AM
Well, he didn't drop his elbow, he didn't finish his stroke, he had to be decellerating when he made contact, and he got a good 12 inches of draw, after shooting a 12 inch shot.
I'm eating my heart out! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I bet you can do better than that yourself!
Steve

Artemus
12-26-2007, 09:42 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> Well, he didn't drop his elbow, he didn't finish his stroke, he had to be decellerating when he made contact, and he got a good 12 inches of draw, after shooting a 12 inch shot.
I'm eating my heart out! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I bet you can do better than that yourself!
Steve <hr /></blockquote>

LMAO. I can do better than that. (on a good day.) Glad to see you have confidence in me. But my secret is ALL in the elbow drop. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

JohnnyP
12-27-2007, 08:01 AM
Randy: You cut me to the quick. Is there anything I'm doing right in that clip?

I watched Landon's clip again, and saw that he also opens up his palm and extends his fingers on the backstroke. Notice the ferrule almost came out of his bridge hand. His follow through is much better.

JohnnyP
12-28-2007, 05:08 AM
JohnnyP draws his rock. Used the practice cueball with a black stripe to show unintended spin. Worked on improving my follow through last night.

Takes a while to load.
http://www.jandssafeguard.com/Pool/JohnnyPDrawsHisRock.AVI

Also put it on google video, but it plays choppy on my old 400Mhz iMac:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6912406045383460884

Cornerman
12-28-2007, 09:14 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Artemus:</font><hr> OK, here is my power draw. This is as good as it gets.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tom8S9m8VNg

Eat your heart out Scott and Steve! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <hr /></blockquote>Apparently not enough snap-back.

Fred &lt;~~~ wonders why that "advice" is so rampant in the country

dr_dave
12-28-2007, 09:23 AM
Artemus,

Do you really believe "snap-back" helps? Also, were you serious with "this is as good as it gets?"

If your video is serious, I think you have an incredible opportunity for great impovement? I think your New Year's resolution should be to acheve table-length (or more) draw. I bet my May '06 article (http://billiards.colostate.edu/bd_articles/2006/may06.pdf) can help you reach that goal.

Regards,
Dave

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Artemus:</font><hr> OK, here is my power draw. This is as good as it gets.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tom8S9m8VNg

Eat your heart out Scott and Steve! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <hr /></blockquote>

SKennedy
12-28-2007, 09:46 AM
My money says he was joking Dave.

dr_dave
12-28-2007, 10:05 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SKennedy:</font><hr> My money says he was joking Dave. <hr /></blockquote>I agree, but some forum readers might not know and actually think the video contains good advice.

Regards,
Dave

Eric.
12-28-2007, 10:19 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cornerman:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Artemus:</font><hr> OK, here is my power draw. This is as good as it gets.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tom8S9m8VNg

Eat your heart out Scott and Steve! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <hr /></blockquote>Apparently not enough snap-back.

Fred &lt;~~~ wonders why that "advice" is so rampant in the country <hr /></blockquote>

He might have been goofing around, but...

I'm guessing that horrible piece of advice gets passed around a lot cuz a lot of us have played around with yo-yo's, as kids.


Eric &gt;still a yo-yo

CarolNYC
12-28-2007, 10:41 AM
I havent read ALL the posts about "powerdraw" but, I've seen many players who can draw the cueball the length of the table ,whereas,the talent and finesse of ones game is the player who can draw 2-3 inches,all the time,everytime-and quite frankly, how many times would you use powerdraw? /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Carol

Artemus
12-28-2007, 11:07 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr> Artemus,

Do you really believe "snap-back" helps? Also, were you serious with "this is as good as it gets?"

If your video is serious, I think you have an incredible opportunity for great impovement? I think your New Year's resolution should be to acheve table-length (or more) draw. I bet my May '06 article (http://billiards.colostate.edu/bd_articles/2006/may06.pdf) can help you reach that goal.

Regards,
Dave

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Artemus:</font><hr> OK, here is my power draw. This is as good as it gets.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tom8S9m8VNg

Eat your heart out Scott and Steve! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <hr /></blockquote> <hr /></blockquote>

ROTFLMAO! No, Dr. Dave, that ain't ME! I put it up there as a joke. However, the person who put it on youtube didn't think it was a joke since he was dead serious and felt like he was doing some good for mankind. You need to contact HIM. LOL

I don't have a site for you to visit, but I think I could help YOU and YOUR game out on a thing or two from a players perspective. Unfortunately it probabaly defies certain laws of physics and what a robot would do, and you may go catatonic because you can't apply geometry, but they just happen to work. For your New Years resolution, could you promise never to speak Swahili for all of 2008?
Remember, we're just common folk.

SKennedy
12-28-2007, 11:11 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Artemus:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr> Artemus,

Do you really believe "snap-back" helps? Also, were you serious with "this is as good as it gets?"

If your video is serious, I think you have an incredible opportunity for great impovement? I think your New Year's resolution should be to acheve table-length (or more) draw. I bet my May '06 article (http://billiards.colostate.edu/bd_articles/2006/may06.pdf) can help you reach that goal.

Regards,
Dave

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Artemus:</font><hr> OK, here is my power draw. This is as good as it gets.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tom8S9m8VNg

Eat your heart out Scott and Steve! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <hr /></blockquote> <hr /></blockquote>

ROTFLMAO! No, Dr. Dave, that ain't ME! I put it up there as a joke. However, the person who put it on youtube didn't think it was a joke since he was dead serious and felt like he was doing some good for mankind. You need to contact HIM. LOL <hr /></blockquote>

Hustlers all over America want his name and number....

Artemus
12-28-2007, 11:25 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote CarolNYC:</font><hr> I havent read ALL the posts about "powerdraw" but, I've seen many players who can draw the cueball the length of the table ,whereas,the talent and finesse of ones game is the player who can draw 2-3 inches,all the time,everytime-and quite frankly, how many times would you use powerdraw? /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Carol <hr /></blockquote>

I think FRAN already summed that up very succinctly:

"For sure. I hope that people realize that there are reasons to use the power draw shot than just to achieve distance with the CB. Depending on the game you're playing, the layout of the table and how creative the player is, there are tons of ways to take advantage of the power draw shot. For example: breaking up clusters of balls when there is no other way, or intentionally running into a ball, or even shooting a backwards combination shot or kiss or carom shot."

Fran



<hr /></blockquote>

SKennedy
12-28-2007, 11:44 AM
It appears to me that the phrase "power draw" is being used in 2 different ways....some take it to mean simply any draw shot where the CB, after making contact with the OB draws back a full table length. While others imply basically the same thing except the distance between the CB and OB are about a table length apart. While I can execute the former with about 1 to 2 diamond distance between balls, I certainly cannot execute the latter. Just for my clarification, I assume a power draw is the latter?

CarolNYC
12-28-2007, 11:52 AM
Absolutely agree /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
-to break up cluster or intentionally run into a ball is what I was thinking-
Using the Wei table:
START(
%AN7O5%BL7P8%CJ5O4%DL7N1%EM7P1%FK6P1%GK6N8%HM7N8%I r7N5%JK6M5
%KJ5P7%LJ5N2%MK6Q4%NJ5R0%OK2Z4%Pa4Z1
)END
This is a shot I've been left with -dead straight on 8-ball and draw back to pocket nine /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Carol

Cornerman
12-28-2007, 12:06 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SKennedy:</font><hr> It appears to me that the phrase "power draw" is being used in 2 different ways....some take it to mean simply any draw shot where the CB, after making contact with the OB draws back a full table length. While others imply basically the same thing except the distance between the CB and OB are about a table length apart. While I can execute the former with about 1 to 2 diamond distance between balls, I certainly cannot execute the latter. Just for my clarification, I assume a power draw is the latter? <hr /></blockquote>A power draw isn't really about specific distances. It's about being able to draw with power. Distances are how people try to describe how much draw is in their power draw. But even at that, those descriptions of distance should have clarifiers describing ball and cloth conditions. Everyone is a superhero on clean, fast, hot, and dry conditions.

I know people like to say that there's little use for maximum draw, but IMO, everyone should know what their maximum draw is for a couple of reasons. The biggest is that if you're faced with a big draw shot for whatever reason, you'll be able to assess your percentage for executing it.

Also, just like in any faction of life, it's better to "have it" and not need it than to need it and not have it.

If you can draw the cueball 18', then it stands to reason that you'll be comfortable when it's time to draw the ball 8', which happens plenty of times during the course of play. If you can only draw the cueball say 9' as a maximum, then it stands to reason that you won't be so comfortable when it's time to draw the ball 8'.

Power draw can simply mean maximum or near maximum draw for that individual.

Fred

SKennedy
12-28-2007, 01:06 PM
Thank you Cornerman.

dr_dave
12-28-2007, 02:52 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Artemus:</font><hr><blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr>If your video is serious, I think you have an incredible opportunity for great impovement? I think your New Year's resolution should be to acheve table-length (or more) draw. I bet my May '06 article (http://billiards.colostate.edu/bd_articles/2006/may06.pdf) can help you reach that goal.<hr /></blockquote><blockquote><font class="small">Quote Artemus:</font><hr> OK, here is my power draw. This is as good as it gets.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tom8S9m8VNg<hr /></blockquote><hr /></blockquote>ROTFLMAO! No, Dr. Dave, that ain't ME! I put it up there as a joke. However, the person who put it on youtube didn't think it was a joke since he was dead serious and felt like he was doing some good for mankind.<hr /></blockquote>Sorry, I honestly didn't know if it was you or not, or if it was a joke or not. Objviously, not all YouTube "instrutional videos" are created equal. The shooter in that video could obviously learn a lot from my article.

Regards,
Dave

JohnnyP
12-28-2007, 03:58 PM
Ok, I posted a clip from my practice last night. It wasn't effortless. You can tell I'm bearing down.

Big improvement over my previous clip. My grip hand was curling up and preventing a full follow through.

pooltchr
12-28-2007, 05:20 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr> ]Sorry, I honestly didn't know if it was you or not, or if it was a joke or not. <hr /></blockquote>

Dave,
If you ever meet Art, remember this comment. There is no way the two of them could ever possibly be confused with one another! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Steve

wolfdancer
12-28-2007, 09:55 PM
I'd have been embarrassed to put that video up on youtube.
I spent sometime correcting my tendency to snap back....for a normal draw.
Wonder how many HRs a guy could hit with a snap back swing?
I didn't see much backspin on that shot and the balls were pretty close.
Going down table 8 diamonds and then drawing back 8....I don't think you'll see many snap back strokes during that performance.

dr_dave
12-29-2007, 08:08 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr>Sorry, I honestly didn't know if it was you or not, or if it was a joke or not. <hr /></blockquote>If you ever meet Art, remember this comment. There is no way the two of them could ever possibly be confused with one another! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif<hr /></blockquote>I apologize to Art (I assume you are referring to "Artemus") if I offended him by not knowing who he is.

The guy in the video Artemus posted obviously seems serious and thinks he is offering useful advice. I just didn't want to offend Artemus just in case it was him and he wasn't joking. Artemus joined the forum less than a month ago, and I don't "know" him yet.

Regards,
Dave

pooltchr
12-29-2007, 09:03 AM
Dave,
It took me a while to realise who Artimus was. He is a pretty good guy, and a pretty sporty player. I can assure you he wasn't offended by your comments...in fact, he probably got a good chuckle out of it, as I did. You would have no way of knowing, but strictly on apperances, the two guys are about as different as they could be. And Art does have a little more stroke than the guy in the video.

I know he posted the video as a joke, but I do agree that the guy seems to actually be serious about his draw stroke. The unfortunate thing is there are so many people out there who don't have a clue, trying to teach others. There is so much mis-information about this game, and the poor beginner doesn't have the knowledge to be able to filter through the garbage.
Steve

JohnnyP
12-29-2007, 12:35 PM
Randy, Scott, Fran, Fred:

Did you get a chance to watch my new clip? Please critique my stroke.

Begin with my grip, bridge, and stance (what you can see), then pre-shot routine, the approach, the address, aiming, eye pattern, practice strokes, setting to pull the trigger, the actual stroke, the follow through, elbow drop, head and body movement if any, and anything else I haven't heard you guys talk about.

Don't know exactly what "SPF" is, but am I doing it?

By the way, that's a 62" Viking. It has "some" deflection, so I've learned the value of a true center ball hit. Can't always do it.

Oh, forgot, the balls went in, and the practice cue ball came back with little or no wobble. Hurray!!!

wolfdancer
12-29-2007, 03:05 PM
After working in a few pool halls,I got to see that same type of sincere, yet flawed, "instruction" on an almost daily basis.
It's another reason why I applaud the BCA's certification program....and the way that the upgrades are awarded after one acquires more experience, and more instruction for themselves.
I've applied for an honorary Master's rating, based on my ability, experience, and Hollywood movie star good looks, also do a mean Tango, and once read Jack Koehler's "Science of Billiards" book, so that in addition to my superior playing ability, I know all about the scientific stuff

dr_dave
12-29-2007, 03:13 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> After working in a few pool halls,I got to see that same type of sincere, yet flawed, "instruction" on an almost daily basis.
It's another reason why I applaud the BCA's certification program....and the way that the upgrades are awarded after one acquires more experience, and more instruction for themselves.
I've applied for an honorary Master's rating, based on my ability, experience, and Hollywood movie star good looks, also do a mean Tango, and once read Jack Koehler's "Science of Billiards" book, so that in addition to my superior playing ability, I know all about the scientific stuff <hr /></blockquote>I hereby grant you an honorary "Jedi Master Instructor" degree from the Dr. Dave School of Pool. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif Please send your check or money order at your earliest convenience.

May the physics force be with you and with any innocent, unsuspecting students. /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Happy New Year,
Dave

PS: All of this humor is starting to hurt the left (or is it the right?) side of my head. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

wolfdancer
12-29-2007, 03:38 PM
I'd agree that there is a lot of confusing info out there....but wading through the junk knowledge is part of
a valuable learning process. I'm still "tossing out the
garbage" though...unlearning the junk science and bad habits that
I acquired over the years (before decent instruction was available)....Anybody taking up the game now has a much better chance to shorten the learning curve then I ever had. I believe that we also learn more through
our mistakes. I played a weak safety in my last tournament, that should have cost me the match, but the guy missed the game ball, and the old man went home with the top $$.
I was trying to place the CB behind a ball near the rail. After I sold out, I knew what caused my mistake ...then played the shot in practice, until I got the feel of it...from the same jacked up position
I just recently watched the videos from Fargo Billiards, and thought they were great stuff. The only difference that I could see in them from what the SPFF folks teach....is that he doesn't like a pause on the backstroke, and has some sound reasoning behind that.I think though, that a slight, but not exaggerated pause helps most beginners to overcome the tendency to "begin the forward stroke, before completing the back stroke" That leads to opposing muscle groups working against each other...IMO...but whatta I knows?
You have the called 7, for life, by the way, for a beer and a buck...

CarolNYC
12-29-2007, 05:55 PM
Dr.Dave,
Its nice to see you laughing /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif
[ QUOTE ]
May the physics force be with you and with any innocent, unsuspecting students <hr /></blockquote> LMAO-
I just wanted to share with you that, my daughter, just completed her first semester in College and aced physics and Math and was awarded a Math scholarship-she's a Math whiz,like you /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Keep up the good work-your very enjoyable!
Have a very Happy New Year!
Carol

dr_dave
12-29-2007, 06:04 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote CarolNYC:</font><hr>I just wanted to share with you that, my daughter, just completed her first semester in College and aced physics and Math and was awarded a Math scholarship-she's a Math whiz,like you /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif<hr /></blockquote>You sound very proud of her, as you should be. Maybe your pool playing helped inspire some of the geometry brains she has.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote CarolNYC:</font><hr>Keep up the good work-your very enjoyable!<hr /></blockquote>Thanks.
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote CarolNYC:</font><hr>Have a very Happy New Year!
Carol<hr /></blockquote>Same to you.

Regards,
Dave

CarolNYC
12-29-2007, 07:05 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I know people like to say that there's little use for maximum draw, but IMO, everyone should know what their maximum draw is for a couple of reasons. The biggest is that if you're faced with a big draw shot for whatever reason, you'll be able to assess your percentage for executing it.
<hr /></blockquote>
Hi Fred,
The shot I posted using Wei table was a shot ( in 9-ball) I was unable to execute in a hill-hill match and wound up losing the match-
I practiced it 100x a day and it became a drill shot-when I came upon it next time,which was only once (in 9 ball), I aced it-
I believe everyone should/must be able to exceute ANY kind of draw for whatever reason /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Have a nice New Year!
Carol

CarolNYC
12-29-2007, 07:51 PM
[ QUOTE ]
then it stands to reason that you'll be comfortable when it's time to draw the ball 8', which happens plenty of times during the course of play <hr /></blockquote>
Fred,
Im sorry if Im reading to much into your words,but, I dont agree that in the course of play, you'd be drawing the cueball 8' "plenty of times"-
Carol

pooltchr
12-29-2007, 08:09 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> You have the called 7, for life, by the way, for a beer and a buck... <hr /></blockquote>

I take back everything I ever said about you not supporting charities! /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Now, all I need is a chance to collect! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Steve

JohnnyP
12-29-2007, 09:26 PM
You guys are having too much fun, but can you get serious for a moment and comment on my stroke? Thank you so much.

I found that if I moved away from the cue (farther to the right), I could hit center ball. Standing closer to the cue, I would often accidentally hit about one tip to the left of center. Must have a banana stroke when I stand that way. Notice in the clip that I keep checking for the position of the chalk mark on the cue ball.

The miles are starting to show. I'll be 61 in Feb. I'm having fun, but you can tell it's work. But, the way I was hitting them, they were going in so easy, that the last shot on the clip I only took one practice stroke, like it was a hanger. BTW, this was the only recording I made. I didn't have to cherry pick.

I was also having a problem with my follow through, as seen in my first clip. A very good local player (Ramin) was in the room, so I asked him to help correct it. I showed him that my grip curls up at contact. I think I picked that up doing the "L" drill. I was using an exaggerated backstroke, and was controlling the speed by choking off the follow through.

Of course, this caused problems when I needed more stroke. There are some cases doing that drill where you don't create enough angle for your next shot, so you have to use high outside and force the cue ball to the rail and (if you are good or lucky), back up table. I recorded myself, and saw on those shots that with my choked follow through, I was moving my body at contact, trying to get extra speed. Looked like I was playing pin ball, bumping the machine with my shoulder.

Thank you Ramin, for helping get rid of that.

Cornerman
12-29-2007, 10:52 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote CarolNYC:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cornerman:</font><hr>
then it stands to reason that you'll be comfortable when it's time to draw the ball 8', which happens plenty of times during the course of play <hr /></blockquote>
Fred,
Im sorry if Im reading to much into your words,but, I dont agree that in the course of play, you'd be drawing the cueball 8' "plenty of times"-
Carol <hr /></blockquote>What I mean (my darling beautiful cousin) is that it's not some rare occurrence that only happens every other full moon. If you play several sets a day, you'll be faced with an 8' draw shot every day. Maybe a few times a day.

IMO, 8' isn't all that big of deal, but to some, they'll never be able to execute it.

Fred

Sid_Vicious
12-29-2007, 11:11 PM
I have to agree. A billiard site and a short video clip,,,WTFn big deal???sid

JohnnyP
12-30-2007, 12:01 AM
Sid: I agree. Not a big deal, so why didn't any one post their clips for us rookies to see? Like Fred said, some people may never achieve it. I'm trying to learn.

Sid_Vicious
12-30-2007, 03:31 AM
Funny, some of the replies you got from peeps are usually the ones whom are thrilled to show off(well Fran is never one for her streaming help.) I guess they don't draw well, or maybe Frans's right, their proprietery rights are the issue, yea right! Sometimes I really wonder /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif sid~~~thinks it's silly for a billiard site to congest itself of so-called teachers whom won't cough up something here

CarolNYC
12-30-2007, 05:37 AM
Hey (my smart and handsome)Cuz,
Your right /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif-that was a shot that just scared me at the time cause I couldnt execute it /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
And IF I watch or practice ,its only 14.1 and you know how its always the same PATTERN....ha ha ha-amazing!

You know how I feel about you-I'll always value and respect your opinion /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Talk to you NEXT year,ha ha
Have a wonderful New Year!
Carol

CarolNYC
12-30-2007, 05:41 AM
JohnnyP,
I really feel for you- /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
Did you pm any of the teachers and tell them your really serious and would like their opinion?
Like Fred said, its no big deal-
Good luck!
Carol

JohnnyP
12-30-2007, 06:30 AM
Carol:

I looked at your shot diagram, and that would have been an easy shot the way I was shooting the other night, but it's hard to get your arm loosened up and get back in stroke after sitting in the chair for a game or two. The problem is magnified if your confidence is low. I'll sometimes squeeze the cue just before contact, causing the tip to dip, and miscue. I hate that.

Qtec
12-30-2007, 06:47 AM
Most amazing draw shot..............ever! web page (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjQbjG3C8YY&amp;feature=related)
Another.
elbow drop? LOL (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_fE-pvT084&amp;feature=related)

Notice how the QB checks on the rail to come perfect for the black. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Qtec you have got to see this... vintage Higgins (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5BYbSfOtVU&amp;feature=related)

CarolNYC
12-30-2007, 08:07 AM
Hi Johnny P,
[ QUOTE ]
I looked at your shot diagram, and that would have been an easy shot the way I was shooting the other night, <hr /></blockquote>
Well,thats good news-sounds like you were doing just fine /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[ QUOTE ]
The problem is magnified if your confidence is low. <hr /></blockquote>
Yes,especially when you can't execute the shot and your scared,ha ha-thats why it becomes a drill shot so,next time,"bring it on!" ha ha

[ QUOTE ]
I'll sometimes squeeze the cue just before contact, causing the tip to dip, and miscue. I hate that. <hr /></blockquote>
Okay,Im by NO MEANS a teacher,just a player,but,I hope this makes sense:
Someone once told me hold your cue like your holding "a baby bird"-my thumb and first 3 fingers are holding my cue,my pinky is just there,but thats me-
I dont know if you know Tiffany Nelson, but,when she was in Jersey,me and her played 3x a week,5 hours a day for~6 months-this is a shot we talked about-she has an awesome stroke and when she shot,it looked ,like,loose,but smooth&amp;fluent /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif
The stroke has to be smooth and follow through,like,let it go-does that make sense?I dont know how to explain it

And the squeezing BEFORE contact is not a good thing-if you stand there and make a fist,feel all the muscles you just tensed,so,dont tense!

Im sorry-I hope I made sense!
Carol

Cornerman
12-30-2007, 08:17 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote JohnnyP:</font><hr> Sid: I agree. Not a big deal, so why didn't any one post their clips for us rookies to see? Like Fred said, some people may never achieve it. I'm trying to learn. <hr /></blockquote>I'm not sure what you're looking for, but since I'm one that you mentioned, and I'm not a professional instructor, I'll see about getting on a table and getting a video of some table length draw shots. But, bear in mind, that I'm a nobody in this world.

The others you mentioned are professional instructors. I wouldn't suggest that they put their videos on youtube.

Fred

Rich R.
12-30-2007, 08:32 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote JohnnyP:</font><hr> Not a big deal, so why didn't any one post their clips for us rookies to see? <hr /></blockquote>
Your assuming that everyone has a video camera and knows how to post clips to the internet.
I don't have the video camera and I wouldn't know how to post the clips, so it doesn't really matter if I can provide an example. I suspect many others are in the same position.

pooltchr
12-30-2007, 08:35 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Sid_Vicious:</font><hr> sid~~~thinks it's silly for a billiard site to congest itself of so-called teachers whom won't cough up something here
<hr /></blockquote>

Maybe the so-called teachers understand that posting a video, or writing a couple of paragraphs on an internet forum may not provide the best information.
I personally spend several hours with students evaluating their mechanics and helping them make any necessary adjustments. I don't do this by having them watch me perform. Everyone is an individual, and trying to copy someone else isn't always effective. Contrary to the opinions of some, we aren't trying to crank out players in a cookie-cutter mode. Good instructors help individuals become better within their own game. It doesn't do much good to try and copy Allison's fundamentals if you are built like Buddy Hall!
If someone is truely interested in learning how to improve their stroke, there are much better ways to accomplish it, rather than watching videos.
Steve

CarolNYC
12-30-2007, 08:38 AM
Pool Extreme Draw Trick The Book of Cool 250 Skills &amp; Tricks

I just went to You tube and pulled the first clip up on this-I was looking at his grip and stroke-it happens quick but its what Im trying to say-and when I watched the next clip-it turns out to be Mike Massey,LMAO!

CarolNYC
12-30-2007, 09:19 AM
[ QUOTE ]
bear in mind, that I'm a nobody in this world.
<hr /></blockquote>
Nah,your HUGE /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif
And not cause your my cousin /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Carol

JohnnyP
12-30-2007, 10:56 AM
I asked the instructors (and Fred) to post clips. Scott has said he uses a video camera to show students what they are doing, so I assumed they would all have stock footage of "the stroke". And why the heck not post it? Like I said earlier, it could be a kind of business card. Or are their strokes so mysterious (the Monk conveys mysterious) that if they go out to play and someone whips out a camera, they yell "Don't TAPE me, bro, don't TAPE me." hehe

Don't know where they went, so care to discuss my mechanics? I posted a stroke "check list" above. Also, I didn't notice my shaft was bending until after I viewed the recording. Quite a bit. Ok or not? I thought that only happened on the break shot.

I had my wife sew up a rubber band in an elastic strap, to hold my Casio EX-Z75 against my forehead. It can record up to 43 minutes at 30 fps, or double that at 15 fps. .avi format, so the files are large.

I will be taking the "forehead cam" with me today. I posted a couple short clips months ago, but erased them without saving a copy. Very interesting to watch recordings of pool from the shooters perspective.

SKennedy
12-30-2007, 09:01 PM
Scott video tapes his client and goes over points of the stroke with his client. The video is used as a training tool for his client, who is paying for the lesson. The only one who keeps the video is the client.

Bob_Jewett
12-30-2007, 10:17 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote JohnnyP:</font><hr> ... It was primarily to learn strategies. I was getting ready for my first straight pool event and Wayne didn't want to mess with my stroke. ... <hr /></blockquote>
If you can't draw reliably, you are not really ready to work on straight pool strategies. Planning runs depends on some simple, basic tools, and one of those at 14.1 is precise draw. Basic draw drills are available in the progressive practice section of http://www.sfbilliards.com/basics.pdf -- how do you do on the level 3 draw drill which is diagram 3C on page 10? (You will have to read the instructions on the preceding pages.)

As far as your video clip goes, you need to position the camera a lot more carefully -- and keep it still!! -- if you intend to catch faults from the video.

CarolNYC
12-31-2007, 09:16 AM
Bob,
Say its impossible for a person to get lessons, (like,your in SF and I dont have the finances to get to you) ,or for whatever reason-do any teachers accept video tapes and give a written evaluation ,for a fee,of course?
Carol

Paul_Mon
12-31-2007, 09:22 AM
I play on 9’ tables almost exclusively and am faced with a power draw shot several times per session. Depending on the conditions it can be very difficult or fairly simple. The hall I frequent has ¾ of their tables recently recovered in 760 Simonis and their balls are waxed daily. On these tables, with waxed balls, a power draw is pretty easy even if the cue ball is 5’ from the object ball. On the 860 covered tables it is still very doable but requires a harder stroke.

My home table is covered with 860, but plays slower than the 860’s at the pool hall. With freshly waxed balls, I bring them to the pool hall every couple of months, its is much easier to draw back 8’ or more. Additionally, as we all know it is also easier to pocket balls that are polished. You can slide them in off of the rail.

One of the videos I watched was on a barbox and it looked like an over-sized mud ball, much harder to draw. The pros we watch in tournament are generally playing on new equipment allowing them to do things with the cue ball that amateurs cannot.

It is not my intention to diminish what the pros can do. Plenty of the Joss tour tournaments are in pools halls that have worn cloth and the balls are only cleaned at the start of play.

Paul Mon…….just my 2 cents…..Happy New Year

dr_dave
12-31-2007, 11:07 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote JohnnyP:</font><hr> You guys are having too much fun, but can you get serious for a moment and comment on my stroke?<hr /></blockquote>If you want to do your own self-analysis from video, you might find the following useful:
- video analysis procedure (http://billiards.colostate.edu/resources/stroke_video_analysis.pdf)
- fundamental "best practices" check-sheet (http://billiards.colostate.edu/resources/best_practices_check_list.pdf)
- stroke "best-practices" routine summary (http://billiards.colostate.edu/resources/stroke_best_practices.pdf)

These and other instructional resources (and useful drills) can be found in the teaching and learning resources section (http://billiards.colostate.edu/resources/index.html) of my website.

Regards,
Dave

Fran Crimi
12-31-2007, 11:29 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Sid_Vicious:</font><hr> Funny, some of the replies you got from peeps are usually the ones whom are thrilled to show off(well Fran is never one for her streaming help.) I guess they don't draw well, or maybe Frans's right, their proprietery rights are the issue, yea right! Sometimes I really wonder /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif sid~~~thinks it's silly for a billiard site to congest itself of so-called teachers whom won't cough up something here
<hr /></blockquote>

Oh, you're so full of baloney it isn't funny. I've posted literally hundreds of tips here. Those weren't enough for you?

Now you're accusing me in your cryptic writing style, of not being able to power draw just because I have some legitimate concerns with the whole youtube posting thing?

Sheesh. What next?

Fran

dr_dave
12-31-2007, 11:46 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr>Oh, you're so full of baloney it isn't funny. I've posted literally hundreds of tips here. Those weren't enough for you?<hr /></blockquote>Fran, I think most people appreciate all of the useful advice you provide on this forum. I've certainly learned a bunch from you, and I always look forward to reading posts from you and many of the other experienced posters here. Thank you for your efforts.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr>...I have some legitimate concerns with the whole youtube posting thing?<hr /></blockquote>Fran, I can try to guess what some of your concerns are, but I am curious to know what you are thinking. Are you willing to share your concerns?

Thanks and Happy New Year,
Dave

killerstroke
12-31-2007, 11:47 AM
First, Sid, Out of line.
Fran, as far as I am concerned, your posts and help here are greatly appreciated.
For all, Whay do we seem to judge a persons player status if they can power draw or not. Who Cares? That's not what this game about and how it is to be played. Power draw is a last result, and if your in that position because of your own doing, you didn't play the previous pattern and/or shots correctly.

Fran Crimi
12-31-2007, 12:07 PM
This whole Youtube thing is new, and I would rather take a wait and see approach for now as the lawsuits start coming out, because there are sure to be legal issues that come about over time, just like with music on the net.

People are jumping into this thing head first, and I think many of them may be sorry, unfortunately, as time goes by.

My choice is to be a little cautious for now. My opinion on that may change over time, but I don't have enough information at this time to make a judgement call for myself.

I believe there are legitimate proprietary issues around this thing that will be emerging soon.

Fran

wolfdancer
12-31-2007, 12:21 PM
Thanks for the link, Bob!!!!
Hope 2008 is a great year for you.

BigRigTom
12-31-2007, 12:23 PM
Posting a video on YouTube is different from other types of posts only in that it is visual. Some things are great for posting and others should be thought out very carefully. Once it is on The Internet it takes on a life of it's own and like a child that has left the nest...who really knows where it will wind up.
You do all you can while you can and hope that is enough, then cut it loose and keep your fingers crossed.
There is no going back so YouTube is here to stay. It is probably better to accept that it is never going away and do your best to point it in the right direction than to sit back and hope or expect others to do the right thing, they almost never do.

Bob_Jewett
12-31-2007, 12:23 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote CarolNYC:</font><hr> Bob,
Say its impossible for a person to get lessons, (like,your in SF and I dont have the finances to get to you) ,or for whatever reason-do any teachers accept video tapes and give a written evaluation ,for a fee,of course?
Carol <hr /></blockquote>
I've done this before. Mark Wilson also offers this service. His website is http://www.playgreatpool.com/

Fran Crimi
12-31-2007, 12:35 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote killerstroke:</font><hr> First, Sid, Out of line.
Fran, as far as I am concerned, your posts and help here are greatly appreciated.
For all, Whay do we seem to judge a persons player status if they can power draw or not. Who Cares? That's not what this game about and how it is to be played. Power draw is a last result, and if your in that position because of your own doing, you didn't play the previous pattern and/or shots correctly. <hr /></blockquote>

Thanks for the thoughts, killer. (Do you really have a killer stroke? Cool.) I understand your point about not having to be able to execute things like power draw. I'm sure that's a legitimate point, but for me, I can't teach something to a student that I couldn't demonstrate. That's just who I am. However, as I grow old and aren't able to bend over the table as I used to, hopefully many years from now, I will probably accept using another player to demonstrate what I used to be able to do. How's that for thinking into the future? LOL

Fran

BigRigTom
12-31-2007, 12:37 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bob_Jewett:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote CarolNYC:</font><hr> Bob,
Say its impossible for a person to get lessons, (like,your in SF and I dont have the finances to get to you) ,or for whatever reason-do any teachers accept video tapes and give a written evaluation ,for a fee,of course?
Carol <hr /></blockquote>
I've done this before. Mark Wilson also offers this service. His website is http://www.playgreatpool.com/ <hr /></blockquote>

Wow Bob!
That sounds like a good thing.
Do you have guidelines on what type of video you need to see in order to offer the best critique?
What do you charge for that sort of thing?
Can you accept a video via email or as a link on YouTube?

CarolNYC
12-31-2007, 12:46 PM
Good for you,Bob! /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif
I think thats WONDERFUL-sometimes people just cant get to a teacher and I think a video is a little more personnal than telling someone read this or watch this-God knows we know how many pool instructions are out there-ya know-
When you can actually SEE them in action, you can critique things they would never have guessed they were doing wrong or Right! /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Have a wonderful New Year!
/ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gifCarol

CarolNYC
12-31-2007, 01:05 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Power draw is a last result, and if your in that position because of your own doing, you didn't play the previous pattern and/or shots correctly. <hr /></blockquote>

/ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

dr_dave
12-31-2007, 01:11 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr> This whole Youtube thing is new, and I would rather take a wait and see approach for now as the lawsuits start coming out, because there are sure to be legal issues that come about over time, just like with music on the net.

People are jumping into this thing head first, and I think many of them may be sorry, unfortunately, as time goes by.

My choice is to be a little cautious for now. My opinion on that may change over time, but I don't have enough information at this time to make a judgement call for myself.

I believe there are legitimate proprietary issues around this thing that will be emerging soon.

Fran <hr /></blockquote>Fran,

For the moment, let's assume YouTube is here to say. I would be willing to bet any amount this is true. Google put down $4 billion dollars on this bet. (I think that's how much Google paid for Youtube, even though they already had their own Google Video website).

So again, given Youtube is here to stay, what are your concerns with posting your own videos (like Joe Tucker, Colin Colenso, Mike Page, Buddy Hall, me, etc.)? I am not asking this to be disrespectful, and I hope you don't take any offense. I just want to know how you think your videos might be misused or how they might hurt you more than they might help. Also, in what ways do you think current posters of legal and non-inappropriate instructional material might have regrets in the future. Again, I am just curious what you and others think about this.

Regards,
Dave

PS: In the computer world, where things happen very fast, YouTube is "old school." It certainly isn't new.

PS: First there was IBM ... then there was Microsoft ... now there is Google ... all to be feared at times ... but to be thanked at other times. I think Apple might be Next (that's a geeky joke for people who know Steve Jobs history).

dr_dave
12-31-2007, 01:15 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr>... as I grow old and aren't able to bend over the table as I used to, hopefully many years from now, I will probably accept using another player to demonstrate what I used to be able to do. How's that for thinking into the future?<hr /></blockquote>What about video? Some say it is the fountain of youth! /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Dave

Bob_Jewett
12-31-2007, 01:17 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BigRigTom:</font><hr> ... Do you have guidelines on what type of video you need to see in order to offer the best critique?
What do you charge for that sort of thing?
Can you accept a video via email or as a link on YouTube?
<hr /></blockquote>
The basic set of video analysis positions we teach to instructors is available in the (free) BCA Recognized Instructors Course handout at http://www.sfbilliards.com/richandout.pdf
See page 17. Remember to frame the video properly -- it is not necessary to see whether the ball goes in the pocket or not. Shoot each position three times. For completeness, use a variety of speeds.

I have no interest in dealing with 100MB emails.

My usual fee is $50/hour.

Fran Crimi
12-31-2007, 02:01 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr> This whole Youtube thing is new, and I would rather take a wait and see approach for now as the lawsuits start coming out, because there are sure to be legal issues that come about over time, just like with music on the net.

People are jumping into this thing head first, and I think many of them may be sorry, unfortunately, as time goes by.

My choice is to be a little cautious for now. My opinion on that may change over time, but I don't have enough information at this time to make a judgement call for myself.

I believe there are legitimate proprietary issues around this thing that will be emerging soon.

Fran <hr /></blockquote>Fran,

For the moment, let's assume that YouTube is here to say. I would be willing to bet any amount this is true. Goolgle bet $4 billion dollars that this is fact. (I think that's how much Google paid for Youtube, even though they already had their own Google Video website).

So again, given Youtube is here to stay, what are your concerns with posting your own videos (like Joe Tucker, Colin Colenso, Mike Page, Buddy Hall, me, etc.)? I am not asking this to be disrespectful and I hope you don't take ny offense. I just want to know how you think your videos might be misused or how they might hurt you more than they help. Also, in what ways do you think current posters of legal and non-inappropriate instructional material might have regrets in the future. Again, I am just curious whay you and others think about this.

Regards,
Dave

PS: In the computer world, where things happen very fast, YouTube is "old school." It certainly isn't new.

PS: First there was IBM ... then there was Microsoft ... now there is Google. All to be feared at first, and then thanked. I think Apple might be Next (that's a geeky joke for people who know Steve Jobs history). <hr /></blockquote>


The effects of something don't happen overnight. In that respect, Youtube and others like it are new. I'm sure the concept is here to stay. Presently, the rights of the owner of the material are not protected enough. I'm sure that in time, and probably with court rulings, those issues will be addressed and improved.

They're still writing laws on this stuff. That's how new it is. Right now it's the wild west out there on the Net. The courts have addressed some issues but there is a long way to go.


Fran

dr_dave
12-31-2007, 02:13 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr>... Presently, the rights of the owner of the material are not protected enough. ...<hr /></blockquote>I think the key here is to only post stuff you are willing to share.

However, you are still protected under Copyright Law. For example, if you post instructional video clips, and somebody compiles them into a DVD for sale, then you have legal recourse.

Now, I have found many websites and individuals that use some of my stuff inappropriately (e.g., posting with no credit or reference to the source), but that is to be expected. Unfortunately, I don't think that can ever be realistically policed. However, if I ever see any products for sale using my stuff without permission, I would certainly take advantage of Copyright Law protection.

Regards,
Dave

Fran Crimi
12-31-2007, 02:23 PM
[ QUOTE ]
The effects of something don't happen overnight. In that respect, Youtube and others like it are new. I'm sure the concept is here to stay. Presently, the rights of the owner of the material are not protected enough. I'm sure that in time, and probably with court rulings, those issues will be addressed and improved.

They're still writing laws on this stuff. That's how new it is. Right now it's the wild west out there on the Net. The courts have addressed some issues but there is a long way to go.


Fran
<hr /></blockquote>

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr>... Presently, the rights of the owner of the material are not protected enough. ...<hr /></blockquote>I think the key here is to only post stuff you are willing to share.

However, you are still protected under Copyright Law. For example, if you post instructional video clips, and somebody compiles them into a DVD for sale, then you have legal recourse.

Now, I have found many websites and individuals that use some of my stuff inappropriately (e.g., posting with no credit or reference to the source), but that is to be expected. Unfortunately, I don't think that can ever be realistically policed. However, if I ever see any products for sale using my stuff without permission, I would certainly take advantage of Copyright Law protection.

Regards,
Dave <hr /></blockquote>

Dave, as I'm sure you know, it's not that easy to sue people, nor is it that straight forward, particularly with Internet issues.

IMO, it all comes down to how important it is to you to post your stuff. For me, it's not that important at this time, so it's not necessary for me to take the risk.

If it becomes an important issue for me, then I will reevaluate it at that time.

Fran

dr_dave
12-31-2007, 02:58 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr>Dave, as I'm sure you know, it's not that easy to sue people, nor is it that straight forward, particularly with Internet issues.<hr /></blockquote>Good point. But if somebody were to make significant money (or cause significant "damages") with a stolen Copyright, I think they would be the ones at risk. I personally don't think the risk of posting only selected clips is that large.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr>IMO, it all comes down to how important it is to you to post your stuff. For me, it's not that important at this time, so it's not necessary for me to take the risk.

If it becomes an important issue for me, then I will reevaluate it at that time.<hr /></blockquote>Well stated!

Regards,
Dave

Fran Crimi
12-31-2007, 03:07 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote killerstroke:</font><hr> First, Sid, Out of line.
Fran, as far as I am concerned, your posts and help here are greatly appreciated.
For all, Whay do we seem to judge a persons player status if they can power draw or not. Who Cares? That's not what this game about and how it is to be played. Power draw is a last result, and if your in that position because of your own doing, you didn't play the previous pattern and/or shots correctly. <hr /></blockquote>

Oh, one thing I forgot to mention, killer. I must confess that I do intentionally put myself in positions to power draw shots occasionally. It's just the way I see the rack sometimes, and I may determine that there may not be another opportunity to do something that needs being done, like break up a cluster, for example, which is one reason why I teach the shot. The other reason of course, is because sometimes your opponent leaves you in that situation so you either have to fish or cut bait, if you know what I mean.


Fran

mikepage
12-31-2007, 05:08 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr> [...] But if somebody were to make significant money (or cause significant "damages") with a stolen Copyright, I think they would be the ones at risk. I personally don't think the risk of posting only selected clips is that large.[...]<hr /></blockquote>

Some good points here, but I have to say I'm way ahead of you guys and have done a number of things to protect myself.

First I hired a very unphotogenic guy off the street to play me as a narrator. I had him put on wrinkly clothes and made sure to choose amateurish camera angles that cut off his head occasionally. Then I forced him to make an occasional stupid joke lest he not get his beer as payment.

Yes sir I figure I'm pretty pretty safe...

BigRigTom
12-31-2007, 05:19 PM
Good idea Mike, this will work for me too.
I can even play myself. /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif
I have all those qualifications.

By the way I really like the stuff you've done on YouTube!
Keep up the good work.

Bob_Jewett
12-31-2007, 05:49 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote mikepage:</font><hr> ... Yes sir I figure I'm pretty pretty safe... <hr /></blockquote>
If the writers' strike continues, you may well see that bumpkin in a prime-time slot on Saturday. Then wouldn't you be embarrassed for not doing the videos yourself? He'll get all the credit, just like Wanderone, and become a rich and famous pool celebrity, while the true creative talent dies in obscure poverty.

But frankly, I think he did a pretty good job. I hope you can at least upgrade his beer to Michelob for the next shoot.

Qtec
01-01-2008, 10:04 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DeadCrab:</font><hr> Excellent run-out.

If I may ask, did you decide ahead to try and run the rack without hitting a rail, or did it just unfold that way?

Hard to tell from the video, but it appears that you were hitting center ball draw and follow, mostly. Or was there more english used than can be seen? <hr /></blockquote>

Its called the No Rail practice. Just one of the many bits of info I have found on the CCB. Run out without the QB touching a rail. Even the easy positions like my example[ balls not too near rails] is difficult. There is no room for error. You have to be precise.
Its a test of skill but it can be done by all levels. Start with 2 balls and build it up . It does get you focused because you have to plan. It does get you striking the QB thru the middle because there is no need for E

I must confess,[ although I'm not sure] but maybe I did use a little OE on the 3rd shot. If you want to know why, ask Dr Dave, or any of the physics guys. LOL /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif



Q /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif .....thanks for asking.

Qtec
01-01-2008, 10:11 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Power draw can simply mean maximum or near maximum draw for that individual.

Fred <hr /></blockquote>

Yeah it can but it doesn't. Drawing a ball back from 2 diamonds 20 ins is not a power draw. It might be a maximun draw for that player but come on Fred, can you imagine that player demonstrating his/her power draw in the club? A 20 inch power draw would have people rolling on the floor!

Qtec

dr_dave
01-01-2008, 10:17 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr>I must confess,[ although I'm not sure] but maybe I did use a little OE on the 3rd shot. If you want to know why, ask Dr Dave, or any of the physics guys. LOL /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif<hr /></blockquote>See the 2nd half of my July '07 article (http://billiards.colostate.edu/bd_articles/2007/july07.pdf). LOL /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Dave

Qtec
01-01-2008, 10:27 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote JohnnyP:</font><hr> Scott:

It was primarily to learn strategies. I was getting ready for my first straight pool event and Wayne didn't want to mess with my stroke. Earlier in the year he gave me some free advice, and said I needed to improve my ball control, so he showed me the "L" drill. He can do it at will and make it look so easy. I would try that for three or four hours non stop, two or three nights a week, then I finally got through it one night. I showed him the blue triangle of chalk in the starting area, left from my tip. He said I probably hit 700 balls that night.

Short clip of me on a bar table. Exaggerated backstroke, little follow through.
http://www.jandssafeguard.com/JohnnyP'sStroke/stroke3.avi <hr /></blockquote>

Hitting 700 balls the wrong way is not going to improve your game.

[ QUOTE ]
It was primarily to learn strategies. I was getting ready for my first straight pool event and Wayne didn't want to mess with my stroke. <hr /></blockquote>

I find that difficult to believe.

I was the ONLY one who posted a video and you didn't even mention it.
Since then we had had only your own videos - fishing for some free advice. I can't believe you have spent C's on lessons. Either you are a hopeless case or you have been had.

..........didn't cover draw.........LOL......FFF.....Kn.....El
Qtec

Qtec
01-01-2008, 10:30 PM
No comment on the Jimmy White amazing draw shot? He drew a ball 12 feet back from an OB 11 feet away!!
Q..................its not possible. Alex Higgens? 3 min 100 break on command?.Jeez

Qtec
01-01-2008, 10:35 PM
OK. Watch this.

web page (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TKIBfem16A&amp;feature=related)

Unfrigginbelievable!!!!!!!!!!!.

Qtec..

JohnnyP
01-02-2008, 01:35 AM
Charlie Chan voice, after interviewing uncooperative witness "Thank you, so much."

dr_dave
01-02-2008, 09:59 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr>Hitting 700 balls the wrong way is not going to improve your game.<hr /></blockquote>Are you suggesting some knowledge and understanding might help someone improve faster? Also, what do you mean by the "wrong way?" There are many top players that seem to stroke the "wrong way" but are awesome (maybe because they have hit many tens of thousands of balls the "wrong way"?).

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr><blockquote><font class="small">Quote JohnnyP:</font><hr>It was primarily to learn strategies. I was getting ready for my first straight pool event and Wayne didn't want to mess with my stroke. <hr /></blockquote>
I find that difficult to believe.

I was the ONLY one who posted a video and you didn't even mention it.
Since then we had had only your own videos - fishing for some free advice. I can't believe you have spent C's on lessons. Either you are a hopeless case or you have been had.<hr /></blockquote>That's not very nice. JohnnyP put himself "out there" in this thread, and he asked for advice. Maybe he didn't acknowledge your video, but does he deserve this?

Dave

Cornerman
01-02-2008, 10:03 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cornerman:</font><hr> Power draw can simply mean maximum or near maximum draw for that individual.

Fred <hr /></blockquote>

Yeah it can but it doesn't. Drawing a ball back from 2 diamonds 20 ins is not a power draw. It might be a maximun draw for that player but come on Fred, can you imagine that player demonstrating his/her power draw in the club? A 20 inch power draw would have people rolling on the floor!

Qtec <hr /></blockquote>LOL!!! Okay, you're right. I guess there needs to be clarification. One man's power draw of 18' may be another man's bad stroke.

Fred

Cornerman
01-02-2008, 10:07 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> No comment on the Jimmy White amazing draw shot? He drew a ball 12 feet back from an OB 11 feet away!!
Q..................its not possible. Alex Higgens? 3 min 100 break on command?.Jeez <hr /></blockquote>Sorry. I didn't think any comment was necessary! Jimmy put on what I thought was similar to Corey Deuel's draw shot on Youtube. Both put a lot of body into it to get the stick speed they were looking for.

Alex is just amazing to watch. I loved that video. If there was a snooker player that looked like he could become a world calibre pool player without changing too much of his stroke or style of play, he is (was) the man.

Fred

wolfdancer
01-02-2008, 03:41 PM
Mike, that guy played the part well, disguising any latent talents for the game, even while demonstrating some great instructions for others.
I thought the videos were great....I dl'd them for my own personal use.....thanks again for posting them on YouTube.

wolfdancer
01-02-2008, 04:08 PM
Mike has got the right idea.....if you have something of value, and wish to share it with others....no harm in uploading that to YouTube.
That guy that you hired to play you in your videos would prevent others from trying to sell your material.... /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Qtec
01-03-2008, 10:24 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr>Hitting 700 balls the wrong way is not going to improve your game.<hr /></blockquote>Are you suggesting some knowledge and understanding might help someone improve faster? Also, what do you mean by the "wrong way?" There are many top players that seem to stroke the "wrong way" but are awesome (maybe because they have hit many tens of thousands of balls the "wrong way"?).

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr><blockquote><font class="small">Quote JohnnyP:</font><hr>It was primarily to learn strategies. I was getting ready for my first straight pool event and Wayne didn't want to mess with my stroke. <hr /></blockquote>
I find that difficult to believe.

I was the ONLY one who posted a video and you didn't even mention it.
Since then we had had only your own videos - fishing for some free advice. I can't believe you have spent C's on lessons. Either you are a hopeless case or you have been had.<hr /></blockquote>That's not very nice. JohnnyP put himself "out there" in this thread, and he asked for advice. Maybe he didn't acknowledge your video, but does he deserve this?

Dave <hr /></blockquote>

Was I too harsh Dave? Maybe some will think I was but I was only being honest.
My post- I was the only one who took the trouble to upload some vids to Youtube- was the 2nd post in a thread of 4 pages! I also 'put myself 'out there by posting myself on the net. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif[ actually anyone who has ever played competition, tourneys, house tourneys, team leagues etc 'puts themselves' out there.] I just thought I would mention it, its not a big deal.

[ QUOTE ]
Are you suggesting some knowledge and understanding might help someone improve faster? <hr /></blockquote>
IMO JohnnyP would not benefit from knowing about throw, swerve or English.
What I am also saying is that for JohnnyP, learning strategies is a complete waste of time.

[ QUOTE ]
Also, what do you mean by the "wrong way?" There are many top players that seem to stroke the "wrong way" but are awesome (maybe because they have hit many tens of thousands of balls the "wrong way"?). <hr /></blockquote>



They all have different strokes Dave but they all HIT the ball the RIGHT way.

Walk into any club and you will see guys who have been playing for 20 years and they still don't know what they should be doing. They still don't know how to use a cue properly!


Did you see my Alex Higgens video? He does have an unorthodox stroke but its a natural one, Alex hits the ball the right way .




Qtec .....



web page (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5BYbSfOtVU&amp;feature=related)

Qtec
01-03-2008, 10:30 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr>I must confess,[ although I'm not sure] but maybe I did use a little OE on the 3rd shot. If you want to know why, ask Dr Dave, or any of the physics guys. LOL /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif<hr /></blockquote>See the 2nd half of my July '07 article (http://billiards.colostate.edu/bd_articles/2007/july07.pdf). LOL /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Dave <hr /></blockquote>

You don't really expect me to read all that techno stuff Dave! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Actually, after watching it again I would say that I didn't want to knock the ball towards the rail so it had to be a soft shot. I didn't want to stick to the ball so I gave a little OE to spin off rather than knock on.......I think. who knows. Maybe it was just bad habit! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif I know you are just dying for me to say it was because of spin and swerve! LOL

No Chance. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Qtec..........probably speed related. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Scott Lee
01-04-2008, 08:02 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> IMO JohnnyP would not benefit from knowing about throw, swerve or English.
What I am also saying is that for JohnnyP, learning strategies is a complete waste of time.


Walk into any club and you will see guys who have been playing for 20 years and they still don't know what they should be doing. They still don't know how to use a cue properly!

Qtec .....<hr /></blockquote>

I agree with Qtec! Without a solid understanding and application of a repeatable setup and delivery process, all the strategy in the world is of limited use. JohnnyP should seek out qualified instruction to get his stroke appraised. It's nowhere near as effective to try to assess someone via a video, as it is being right there with them, to see the "big picture". That said, the service Mark Wilson and some others offer, via a fee-based video appraisal, is better than nothing!

Scott Lee

dr_dave
01-04-2008, 10:41 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr><blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr>...what do you mean by the "wrong way?" There are many top players that seem to stroke the "wrong way" but are awesome (maybe because they have hit many tens of thousands of balls the "wrong way"?). <hr /></blockquote>

They all have different strokes Dave but they all HIT the ball the RIGHT way.

Walk into any club and you will see guys who have been playing for 20 years and they still don't know what they should be doing. They still don't know how to use a cue properly!

Did you see my Alex Higgens video? He does have an unorthodox stroke but its a natural one, Alex hits the ball the right way.
web page (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5BYbSfOtVU&amp;feature=related)<hr /></blockquote>Good answer. The "right way" is the way that works best for an individual. An unorthodox stroke isn't necessary "the wrong way," but I bet quite a few people (maybe even some really good players) can improve by addressing some of their unorthodox or quirky stroke "issues."

Concerning doing what is "natural," I don't think this is always the best advice. What many people do "naturally" doesn't always give the best results. For example, not dropping the elbow, or pausing in the final back swing, doesn't come naturally to many, but these changes can still help (some but not all people), even if it doesn't feel "natural." Now, with lots of practice, anything can be made to feel natural, so maybe this is a moot point.

Regards,
Dave

SKennedy
01-04-2008, 11:33 AM
My "natural" stroke enabled me to play a decent game of pool. However, it was limiting me in one area....an ability to consistently draw the ball the desired amount and control the speeed of the cue ball also. My natural stroke was causing me to always strike the cue ball higher than what I thought. While I had learned to adjust somewhat by aiming lower on the cue ball than you normally would, I still had trouble controlling my draw shots. Learning the "right way" has helped.
Granted, there are very good players who may not have the perfect stroke, but I'd bet there are fundamental similarities with all their strokes. Major league baseball pitchers may have differnces in their individual mechanics, but they all have things in common that are of utmost importance. Minor things can be overcome by adjustments, especially when the individual is very athletic, but there are some fundamental items that must be executed. Pitching really only starts at one critical point in a pitchers delivery to the plate. Anything he does prior to that point really doesn't matter a whole lot. I suspect the same thing with the pool stroke.

Qtec
01-04-2008, 11:19 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Concerning doing what is "natural," I don't think this is always the best advice. What many people do "naturally" doesn't always give the best results. For example, not dropping the elbow, or pausing in the final back swing, doesn't come naturally to many, but these changes can still help (some but not all people), even if it doesn't feel "natural." Now, with lots of practice, anything can be made to feel natural, so maybe this is a moot point.

Regards,
Dave <hr /></blockquote>


If your stroke is not built around your natural style, it will break down under pressure. You can't play all day and NOT miss a bvall without a natural stroke.
The FIRST rule of any game is to play YOUR game. Uninhibited.
You have to relax.

Q

dr_dave
01-05-2008, 05:16 PM
FYI, I posted a reply in a new thread (http://www.billiardsdigest.com/ccboard/showthreaded.php?Cat=&amp;Board=ccb&amp;Number=269985&amp;page =0&amp;view=collapsed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=&amp;fpart=1) since this thread is getting a little too long, with too many topics.

Regards,
Dave

dr_dave
01-05-2008, 05:21 PM
SKennedy,

FYI, I posted your reply in the new thread (http://www.billiardsdigest.com/ccboard/showthreaded.php?Cat=&amp;Board=ccb&amp;Number=269985&amp;page =0&amp;view=collapsed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=&amp;fpart=1) to keep everything in one place.

I hope you don't mind,
Dave

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SKennedy:</font><hr> My "natural" stroke enabled me to play a decent game of pool. However, it was limiting me in one area....an ability to consistently draw the ball the desired amount and control the speeed of the cue ball also. My natural stroke was causing me to always strike the cue ball higher than what I thought. While I had learned to adjust somewhat by aiming lower on the cue ball than you normally would, I still had trouble controlling my draw shots. Learning the "right way" has helped.
Granted, there are very good players who may not have the perfect stroke, but I'd bet there are fundamental similarities with all their strokes. Major league baseball pitchers may have differnces in their individual mechanics, but they all have things in common that are of utmost importance. Minor things can be overcome by adjustments, especially when the individual is very athletic, but there are some fundamental items that must be executed. Pitching really only starts at one critical point in a pitchers delivery to the plate. Anything he does prior to that point really doesn't matter a whole lot. I suspect the same thing with the pool stroke. <hr /></blockquote>

dr_dave
01-07-2008, 09:47 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr>...JohnnyP put himself "out there" in this thread, and he asked for advice.<hr /></blockquote>
I was the only one who took the trouble to upload some vids to Youtube- was the 2nd post in a thread of 4 pages! I also 'put myself 'out there by posting myself on the net.<hr /></blockquote>You are obviously a very good player, so I don't consider your video posts as "putting yourself out there." /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif You're just showing off. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Regards,
Dave

PS: Thank you for posting your videos. I look forward to seeing more in the future.

dr_dave
01-07-2008, 05:49 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote JohnnyP:</font><hr> Scott, Fran, Fred, all others that can draw the ball effortlessly, please make a short video and post it on youtube.<hr /></blockquote>Sorry it took so long. I was distracted by "OB turn" stuff.

Here's my video:
NV B.9 - Power draw practice and adjustments (http://billiards.colostate.edu/normal_videos/new/NVB-9.htm)

Now, I don't claim to be a great player, and my technique is far from perfect, but hopefully the video is close to what you asked for.

Here's my critique of the technique in the video (at no charge):

- my grip is too tight, especially during my tense follow-through (notice the "white knuckles").

- I'm not following through enough (and the follow through is a little jerky); although, with my shot setup, double hitting the CB was a concern. In fact, when I tried dropping my elbow for more power (not shown in the video), I did double hit and launch the CB once.

- I'm lifting my head up a little early on some shots.

- I generally look a little tense (not relaxed).

- I have more cue elevation than I need.

- I don't have a deliberate and extended pause at the end of my final backswing. Generally, I find it helps my accuracy and consistency when I force myself to do it, but it doesn't come naturally.

I obviously have lots of "potential for improvement." /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif Now, I know some more things I need to work on ... I think. I welcome and would appreciate any other advice or constructive criticism from the good players and instructors out there, as long as it isn't too cruel. /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Regards,
Dave

Ralph_Kramden
01-07-2008, 06:45 PM
You could actually win a lot of games without changing that stroke. IMO /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

dr_dave
01-07-2008, 08:12 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ralph_Kramden:</font><hr> You could actually win a lot of games without changing that stroke. IMO /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif<hr /></blockquote>Thanks for the positive feedback; although, winning lots of games requires many things: great speed control, complete understanding and/or intuition of CB control, good aiming and visualization skills, good eye sight, good creativity with strategy and planning, good understanding and/or intuition of squirt/throw/swerve, etc., etc, etc.! To me, the most critical skill with which I feel I need the most improvement is precise speed control. Unfortunately, that takes lots and lots of practice. Now I just need lots and lots of spare time.

Regards,
Dave

Qtec
01-07-2008, 08:29 PM
Dave, well done. You have improved leaps and bounds from the last video I saw of you.
I most impressed with your smooth backstroke. Now, if you can let youself relax ie give in to gravity............................... /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif you wil be almost there.

Q.....Respect. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

dr_dave
01-07-2008, 08:38 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> Dave, well done. You have improved leaps and bounds from the last video I saw of you.<hr /></blockquote>Thanks, but when I watch my video, I still see many "issues" I want to address.

Unfortunately, many of my Internet videos were filmed about 5 years ago. I've learned a lot over those 5 years. I wish I had time to redo many of the old videos with poor technique, but it is difficult to motivate myself to do this.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr>I most impressed with your smooth backstroke.<hr /></blockquote>Thanks.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr>Now, if you can let youself relax ie give in to gravity............................... /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif you wil be almost there.

Q.....Respect. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <hr /></blockquote>When I first watched my power draw video, I was honestly a little surprised and disappointed at how tense and stiff I look (especially, with my grip during the follow through). But that's why video is so good ... it let's you see what you need to work on.

Regards,
Dave

Qtec
01-07-2008, 08:42 PM
Winning games isn't important. You have to look long term. First you have to learn how to use your cue, then you win matches.
Q

Qtec
01-07-2008, 09:01 PM
[ QUOTE ]
When I first watched my power draw video, I was honestly a little surprised and disappointed at how tense and stiff I look <hr /></blockquote>

Thats because you were set up for a power draw.- exactly the opposite to how you should approach such a shot.

The main problem that I can see is that your wrist is not relaxed. If you relax your wrist then you will have to relax your forearm and you will be in a new position- your natural position.

/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Dave 30 mins on a pool table and you would FEEL the difference. You would know exactly what I'm talking about.
You are at the stage where some good instruction can make a huge difference in your game.
Really I wish you were here! I reckon we could have a Dr Dave no-rail run out on youtube inside six months,

Q....straight up.

dr_dave
01-07-2008, 09:11 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr><blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr>When I first watched my power draw video, I was honestly a little surprised and disappointed at how tense and stiff I look <hr /></blockquote>
Thats because you were set up for a power draw.- exactly the opposite to how you should approach such a shot.

The main problem that I can see is that your wrist is not relaxed. If you relax your wrist then you will have to relax your forearm and you will be in a new position- your natural position. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif<hr /></blockquote>I think that's good advice; although, I doubt it will feel natural without lots of practice. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Thanks for the help! I owe you a beer.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr>Dave 30 mins on a pool table and you would FEEL the difference. You would know exactly what I'm talking about.<hr /></blockquote>I'll go try it out right now.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr>You are at the stage where some good instruction can make a huge difference in your game.<hr /></blockquote>I think what I need more (or at least as much) is practice and playing time. Sometimes, I go several weeks without playing once.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr>Really I wish you were here! I reckon we could have a Dr Dave no-rail run out on youtube inside six months,<hr /></blockquote>I accept the challenge. I will add "Post a rail-less run-out video on YouTube within 6 months" as one of my New Year's resolutions.

Thanks again for your feedback,
Dave

dr_dave
01-07-2008, 09:16 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> Winning games isn't important. You have to look long term. First you have to learn how to use your cue, then you win matches.
Q <hr /></blockquote>But I want to win now. /ccboard/images/graemlins/mad.gif [... with a whining voice, like that bad little girl (Veruka?) in the movie "Willy Wonka"] /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Dave

Qtec
01-07-2008, 09:26 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I think that's good advice; although, I doubt it will feel natural without lots of practice. <hr /></blockquote>

Dave. it took me 3 years of Tai Chi lessons to discover what relaxed really meant.
Its not easy.

Q

dr_dave
01-07-2008, 09:54 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr><blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr>I think that's good advice; although, I doubt it will feel natural without lots of practice.<hr /></blockquote>Dave. it took me 3 years of Tai Chi lessons to discover what relaxed really meant.
Its not easy.<hr /></blockquote>I just spent about about 30 minutes trying wrist and grip relaxation with my power draw shot. The relaxed wrist didn't work very well ... it felt too sloppy, and the results were poor. Maybe I should practice it more, but it sure seems like the wrong thing for me to do. My accuracy currently seems best with a relaxed grip but semi-rigid wrist. This is what I usually do with most shots ... the wrist stays straight as the angle of the knuckles changes through the stroke, with a relaxed cradle grip. This seem like the most natural motion for me; although, I do seem to want to tense up my grip a little during power shots, unless I concentrate on not doing it. Time for more practice.

Thanks again,
Dave

SKennedy
01-08-2008, 10:01 AM
Dave....spend about 2 hours or so with Scott Lee and you'll see an improvement in your stroke. You'll perform those draw shots in a relaxed and effortless manner. I'll even help contribute to the cost of the lesson....
Actually, I have a proposal for you and Scott....
You just provided us with this video and we can look at it as a "before Scott Lee" video. Next time Scott is up that way he can stop by and work on your stroke with you...maybe gratis or at a reduced rate. After practicing your new stroke you can re-shoot the video with the same draw shots. I bet you and all of us will see a big difference in the "after Scott Lee" video. You improve your stroke and an instructor gets some marketing.... a win-win situation.

SKennedy
01-08-2008, 10:05 AM
Dave, you draw the ball the most in the last shot. It also happens to be the shot in which you followed through with the cue stick the most after contact with the cue ball. Just food for thought......

wolfdancer
01-08-2008, 10:29 AM
After watching your clip...I clicked on the Buddy Hall one, next to it....interestingly enough to get max draw....he drops his elbow to get a full follow through.....
(I'd suggest that you keep your day job, instead of trying the pro circuit) /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Thanks for the links!!

SpiderMan
01-08-2008, 10:30 AM
Dave,

I don't generally have any trouble seeing your website videos, but I can't view the one linked above. The main difference I notice is that there is a "youtube" watermark branded into the screen on this one. It doesn't even show the first frame for me - the center icon just spins endlessly.

SpiderMan

SKennedy
01-08-2008, 10:37 AM
Try double-clicking the spinning icon.

Artemus
01-08-2008, 10:43 AM
If you're looking for a variety of ideas just to try out, I'll take a shot at it.

IMO, rigidity and tightness starts from the floor/feet and works its way up through the entire body.

Your stance looks very widely spaced, knees locked tight, and weight/head forward. I'd say bring your right foot in very close to back of the left heel for starters, get in a more relaxed sit down position with a looser knee flex, and don't get so far forward with weight distribution. Make it more evenly balanced and relaxed. You can play around with the spacing of your feet to wider later, but stay close in the beginning.

Lets look at the Mike Massey video again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oI1Q-8nfiBk

His grip IS much more relaxed and looser than yours and I think it has to be for a full release through impact. You do need to work on it.

What I've observed in ALL great power draw strokes is a full RELEASE or UNCOCKING of the back wrist. What I mean by that is, pretend that you're casting a fly fishing rod about 40 feet into the water. Observe the natural action of the wrist as it UNCOCKS fully to sling the line out.
Now pretend that you're a pitcher in a MLB game and you're throwing a "SINKER" or "DROP" pitch. Notice how the wrist UNCOCKS fully downward as you would release the baseball.

When Massey talks about elbow dropping for release, if you notice he's also getting a FULL EXTENSION AND UNCOCKING of his wrist far through the shot which increases tip speed and allows for extension. Any instructor that teaches stiff wrist with no release or uncocking is missing the boat.

Another thing that all great power draw specialists do is allow the butt end of the cue to come up and almost slap the extended forearm down the line (which is part of extension and uncocking). In your video, the forearm is still vertical and the butt of the cue stops immediately with your hand almost gripping at the bumper. It looks like the butt of the cue on Massey's video hits just above his wrist at the lower part of his forearm.

I kinda wonder if you'd be better off with a longer cue because of your height and long arms so that you didn't have to grip so far back.

Keep studying Mike's video and I think you'll see everything I've described in his stroke.

SKennedy
01-08-2008, 11:02 AM
Artemus, you replied to me, but I assume you are basically replying to Dr. Dave?

Artemus
01-08-2008, 11:04 AM
Yep, it was Dr. Dave.

Eric.
01-08-2008, 11:59 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> Winning games isn't important. You have to look long term. First you have to learn how to use your cue, then you win matches.
Q <hr /></blockquote>

I couldn't agree more. Not having good technique and form just makes it that much harder to improve.

Dr. Dave (with all due respect) can really benefit more from TAKING a few lessons, rather than giving them. I'll apoligize if this comes across a bit rude.


Eric

SpiderMan
01-08-2008, 12:03 PM
Doesn't work. The icon isn't even a "clickable".

SpiderMan

Ralph_Kramden
01-08-2008, 03:37 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Artemus:</font><hr>Another thing that all great power draw specialists do is allow the butt end of the cue to come up and almost slap the extended forearm down the line (which is part of extension and uncocking). In your video, the forearm is still vertical and the butt of the cue stops immediately with your hand almost gripping at the bumper. It looks like the butt of the cue on Massey's video hits just above his wrist at the lower part of his forearm.

I kinda wonder if you'd be better off with a longer cue because of your height and long arms so that you didn't have to grip so far back.

Keep studying Mike's video and I think you'll see everything I've described in his stroke. <hr /></blockquote>
?????? ARM LENGTH ??????

Maybe a persons arm length makes a big difference in the way their stroke compares. To get the same length follow through that Dr. Dave can achieve with a stiffer wrist I need to greatly lenghten my arm movement. I need to have a looser wrist and also some elbow drop.

If I measure with a siff wrist and no elbow drop my stroke length is only about 9" and I can extend that by about 2" with a loose grip. With elbow drop I can go well past that with some accuaracy loss.

I try NOT to drop my elbow on drawshots that need to be angled fairly accurately (i.e. the half circle drawback drill around a side pocket). I know my elbow drops on a power draw because the cue tip ends up further past where the cueball was than my short arm would otherwise allow.

Ralph_Kramden
01-08-2008, 03:45 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> Doesn't work. The icon isn't even a "clickable".

SpiderMan <hr /></blockquote>

Try clicking the bottom start icon first and then click on the video icon. Might work??

dr_dave
01-08-2008, 08:17 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> Dave,

I don't generally have any trouble seeing your website videos, but I can't view the one linked above. The main difference I notice is that there is a "youtube" watermark branded into the screen on this one. It doesn't even show the first frame for me - the center icon just spins endlessly.

SpiderMan <hr /></blockquote>Sorry about that. I know you have trouble viewing YouTube videos. I am out of town right now, but when I return I will post a WMV version on my website so you can view it like the others.

You should try to find a way to view YouTube videos. There's lots of great stuff there (billiards and everything else). Also, I am tempted to use YouTube for all future video posts. YouTube allows easy streaming of high quality video.

Regards,
Dave

wolfdancer
01-08-2008, 09:32 PM
I find I can get similar results in just a few hours with a bottle of Bombay Blue, some Schweppe's tonic water, and a lime.

BigRigTom
01-08-2008, 10:23 PM
It is pretty interesting to see this kind of demo and read the various comments. I always thought a power draw was when you were attempting to draw back a long way after a long shot.
Dr. Dave, it looks like you are only about one diamond from the object ball and when you get a pretty good draw you rebound off the head rail back to the center of the table.

Does this constitute a power draw?
In the Mike Massey video he draws off an object ball that is a little more than 3 diamonds away and he rebounds off the head rail, goes all the way to the foot rail....that is almost 2 table's length!
Of course we are talking Mike Massey but still that is in his own words an EXTREME draw!
What is the consensous of what constitutes a power draw anyway?

OK, I could not resist...I tried the same thing myself and while my video is nowhere near the quality of your's Dr. Dave maybe it is good enough for everyone to critique. Let me have guys! Here is a link to it. 2008-01-08 BigRigTom attempting the Power Draw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHcy3U3sQQ4)

dr_dave
01-09-2008, 09:00 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Artemus:</font><hr> I kinda wonder if you'd be better off with a longer cue because of your height and long arms so that you didn't have to grip so far back.<hr /></blockquote>Thanks for the suggestion. My current cue doesn't feel uncomfortable, but maybe I'll try a longer cue to see how it feels.

What problems do you see with my grip being where it is?

Thanks,
Dave

Artemus
01-09-2008, 09:13 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr>

What problems do you see with my grip being where it is?

Thanks,
Dave <hr /></blockquote>

Lets just say that where it's located is the only place it can be. You have no options. If you moved it forward you'd probably be quite cramped and your forearm would be angled, that is unless you stood straighter.

Maybe I'm old school, but I've always wanted to have the option of moving my backhand forward and back on the cue for different shots, strokes, and force. Kinda like a guitar player moving his hand back and forth on the neck to produce different notes.

SpiderMan
01-09-2008, 11:10 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> Dave,

I don't generally have any trouble seeing your website videos, but I can't view the one linked above. The main difference I notice is that there is a "youtube" watermark branded into the screen on this one. It doesn't even show the first frame for me - the center icon just spins endlessly.

SpiderMan <hr /></blockquote>Sorry about that. I know you have trouble viewing YouTube videos. I am out of town right now, but when I return I will post a WMV version on my website so you can view it like the others.

You should try to find a way to view YouTube videos. There's lots of great stuff there (billiards and everything else). Also, I am tempted to use YouTube for all future video posts. YouTube allows easy streaming of high quality video.

Regards,
Dave <hr /></blockquote>

I suspect it may be some sort of watchdog/firewall thing. If you switch entirely to Youtube, there may be a lot of people who can't view your stuff from work. In my case, I don't have internet at home, so I come to work whenever I need to use it.

SpiderMan

dr_dave
01-10-2008, 05:08 PM
Spiderman,

FYI, I will try to post WMV video alternatives for all YouTube videos I post in the future (although, the quality won't be quite as good). Direct links to the WMV files will be available on my "alternative interface video page" located here:

http://billiards.colostate.edu/normal_videos/index_alt.html

The new videos (NV B.7-B.9) are now available from that page.

Regards,
Dave

PS: You are missing a lot, not having access to YouTube. YouTube is an awesome resource.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> Dave,

I don't generally have any trouble seeing your website videos, but I can't view the one linked above. The main difference I notice is that there is a "youtube" watermark branded into the screen on this one. It doesn't even show the first frame for me - the center icon just spins endlessly.

SpiderMan <hr /></blockquote>Sorry about that. I know you have trouble viewing YouTube videos. I am out of town right now, but when I return I will post a WMV version on my website so you can view it like the others.

You should try to find a way to view YouTube videos. There's lots of great stuff there (billiards and everything else). Also, I am tempted to use YouTube for all future video posts. YouTube allows easy streaming of high quality video.

Regards,
Dave <hr /></blockquote>

I suspect it may be some sort of watchdog/firewall thing. If you switch entirely to Youtube, there may be a lot of people who can't view your stuff from work. In my case, I don't have internet at home, so I come to work whenever I need to use it.

SpiderMan <hr /></blockquote>

dr_dave
01-10-2008, 06:15 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BigRigTom:</font><hr> It is pretty interesting to see this kind of demo and read the various comments. I always thought a power draw was when you were attempting to draw back a long way after a long shot.
Dr. Dave, it looks like you are only about one diamond from the object ball and when you get a pretty good draw you rebound off the head rail back to the center of the table.<hr /></blockquote>In the last shot, the CB drew back more than 1 1/2 table lengths (i.e., it hit both the foot rail and the head rail "off screen"). My table is only 8', but the cloth is not fast like Simonis. I'm not trying to brag ... because as I pointed out in my post, I have much room for improvement (e.g., I need to keep my relaxed grip, even on "power shots") ... I just wanted to be clear with the result.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BigRigTom:</font><hr>Does this constitute a power draw?<hr /></blockquote>I think so, because it requires significant more power than typical pool shots.

Regards,
Dave

PS: Thanks for posting the video; although, the view and image quality makes it difficult to see subtleties.

BigRigTom
01-10-2008, 06:42 PM
Dr. Dave, what kind of set up do you have on the camera you used to post that power draw shot?
Also, what is the minimum necessary to achieve good quality on this kind of video? I checked the settings for the camera I used and that video was shot at 30 frames per second which results in the blurr of the cue, cue ball and the stroke arm.
How many frames per second is required to achieve clarity on those things at normal shooting speeds?

BigRigTom
01-10-2008, 06:45 PM
Wolfdancer, glad to see you got your avatar fixed. Cool one too! I want one like it for my forum! whine, whine, whine! /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif

dr_dave
01-10-2008, 07:45 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BigRigTom:</font><hr> Dr. Dave, what kind of set up do you have on the camera you used to post that power draw shot?<hr /></blockquote>I use a fairly nice Sony mini-DV camcorder. It outputs full resolution (720x540 I think), uncompressed digital video. I edit the video with Pinnacle Studio software and output a compressed WMV file ("high" quality for YouTube, "medium" quality for my website).

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BigRigTom:</font><hr>Also, what is the minimum necessary to achieve good quality on this kind of video? I checked the settings for the camera I used and that video was shot at 30 frames per second which results in the blurr of the cue, cue ball and the stroke arm.
How many frames per second is required to achieve clarity on those things at normal shooting speeds?<hr /></blockquote>All of my NV videos at also filmed at 30 fps (with my camcorder). Only my HSV clips are at much higher frame rates, which requires a special (expensive) camera my university owns. 30 fps isn't ideal for power strokes, but I don't think that's the problem with your video quality. I think the issue is the level of "compression" used in creating a smaller video file, but I'm not sure. This might be a limitation of your camera and/or software.

Regards,
Dave

BigRigTom
01-10-2008, 08:31 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr> All of my NV videos at also filmed at 30 fps (with my camcorder). Only my HSV clips are at much higher frame rates, which requires a special (expensive) camera my university owns. 30 fps isn't ideal for power strokes, but I don't think that's the problem with your video quality. I think the issue is the level of "compression" used in creating a smaller video file, but I'm not sure. This might be a limitation of your camera and/or software.

Regards,
Dave <hr /></blockquote>

Thanks for the quick response and the hint at the problem. I will play around with this stuff and see if I can get a better video.
I do have a nice HD Sanyo called an Xacti or something like that and I had used it before and did not have that blurring issue. Turns out it too was running 30 fps as well even when on HD. It was just easier to shoot that clip quickly with the web cam on my lap top so I was lazy. I go back to the better camera and see if I can do a better job.

Thanks again for your help.

SpiderMan
01-11-2008, 09:54 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BigRigTom:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr> All of my NV videos at also filmed at 30 fps (with my camcorder). Only my HSV clips are at much higher frame rates, which requires a special (expensive) camera my university owns. 30 fps isn't ideal for power strokes, but I don't think that's the problem with your video quality. I think the issue is the level of "compression" used in creating a smaller video file, but I'm not sure. This might be a limitation of your camera and/or software.

Regards,
Dave <hr /></blockquote>

Thanks for the quick response and the hint at the problem. I will play around with this stuff and see if I can get a better video.
I do have a nice HD Sanyo called an Xacti or something like that and I had used it before and did not have that blurring issue. Turns out it too was running 30 fps as well even when on HD. It was just easier to shoot that clip quickly with the web cam on my lap top so I was lazy. I go back to the better camera and see if I can do a better job.

Thanks again for your help. <hr /></blockquote>

Tom,

If you want to capture fast motion using standard video gear, there are several important settings.

If you have a regular hand-held "camcorder", the frame rate will be 30 (29.97) frames per second in the US. This is something you won't be able to vary. However, the camera's effective "shutter" opening can be set to a very small fraction of the 33 milliseconds that one frame occupies. If your camera has manual controls, try setting the shutter speed to 1/500 second or less (if possible). If you do not have manual controls, check to see if you have a "scene" mode that corresponds to "action" or "sports". These modes generally favor faster shutters. NOTE - when you set the high shutter speed, you will probably need to bring some fairly intense lighting to the table in order for your results not to come out too dark. Using intense lighting in the "action" scene mode may also prompt the camera to select a faster shutter speed.

If you have a recently-manufactured digital still camera with movie mode, you may have the option of selecting a frame rate of 60 frames per second. Many of the newer Canon cameras support 60 frames per second for short clips of 640x480 (VGA-quality) video. Most digital still cameras don't allow much in the way of manual control in movie mode, but you can try combining the 60 FPS mode with bright lighting to force the camera to select faster shutter speeds.

SpiderMan

dr_dave
01-11-2008, 10:32 AM
Spiderman,

Thanks for the info. This must be the main reason for the blurring in BigRigTom's video. My camcorder seems to do pretty well even in low light situations. I guess you get what you pay for.

Regards,
Dave
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote BigRigTom:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr> All of my NV videos at also filmed at 30 fps (with my camcorder). Only my HSV clips are at much higher frame rates, which requires a special (expensive) camera my university owns. 30 fps isn't ideal for power strokes, but I don't think that's the problem with your video quality. I think the issue is the level of "compression" used in creating a smaller video file, but I'm not sure. This might be a limitation of your camera and/or software.

Regards,
Dave <hr /></blockquote>

Thanks for the quick response and the hint at the problem. I will play around with this stuff and see if I can get a better video.
I do have a nice HD Sanyo called an Xacti or something like that and I had used it before and did not have that blurring issue. Turns out it too was running 30 fps as well even when on HD. It was just easier to shoot that clip quickly with the web cam on my lap top so I was lazy. I go back to the better camera and see if I can do a better job.

Thanks again for your help. <hr /></blockquote>

Tom,

If you want to capture fast motion using standard video gear, there are several important settings.

If you have a regular hand-held "camcorder", the frame rate will be 30 (29.97) frames per second in the US. This is something you won't be able to vary. However, the camera's effective "shutter" opening can be set to a very small fraction of the 33 milliseconds that one frame occupies. If your camera has manual controls, try setting the shutter speed to 1/500 second or less (if possible). If you do not have manual controls, check to see if you have a "scene" mode that corresponds to "action" or "sports". These modes generally favor faster shutters. NOTE - when you set the high shutter speed, you will probably need to bring some fairly intense lighting to the table in order for your results not to come out too dark. Using intense lighting in the "action" scene mode may also prompt the camera to select a faster shutter speed.

If you have a recently-manufactured digital still camera with movie mode, you may have the option of selecting a frame rate of 60 frames per second. Many of the newer Canon cameras support 60 frames per second for short clips of 640x480 (VGA-quality) video. Most digital still cameras don't allow much in the way of manual control in movie mode, but you can try combining the 60 FPS mode with bright lighting to force the camera to select faster shutter speeds.

SpiderMan <hr /></blockquote>

Jal
01-11-2008, 06:18 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote BigRigTom:</font><hr> It is pretty interesting to see this kind of demo and read the various comments. I always thought a power draw was when you were attempting to draw back a long way after a long shot.
Dr. Dave, it looks like you are only about one diamond from the object ball and when you get a pretty good draw you rebound off the head rail back to the center of the table.<hr /></blockquote>In the last shot, the CB drew back more than 1 1/2 table lengths (i.e., it hit both the foot rail and the head rail "off screen"). My table is only 8', but the cloth is not fast like Simonis. I'm not trying to brag ... because as I pointed out in my post, I have much room for improvement (e.g., I need to keep my relaxed grip, even on "power shots") ... I just wanted to be clear with the result.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BigRigTom:</font><hr>Does this constitute a power draw?<hr /></blockquote>I think so, because it requires significant more power than typical pool shots.

Regards,
Dave

PS: Thanks for posting the video; although, the view and image quality makes it difficult to see subtleties. <hr /></blockquote>Dr. Dave,

It looked to me like you have a very good power draw, stiff or otherwise. I wonder how many could do as well or better? Had you used some silicone, it would probably still be bouncing around the table. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Jim

Ralph_Kramden
01-12-2008, 09:12 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BigRigTom:</font><hr> It is pretty interesting to see this kind of demo and read the various comments. I always thought a power draw was when you were attempting to draw back a long way after a long shot.
Dr. Dave, it looks like you are only about one diamond from the object ball and when you get a pretty good draw you rebound off the head rail back to the center of the table.

Does this constitute a power draw?
<hr /></blockquote>
To achieve a power draw on a long shot the cueball must be hit low and with PRECISION on the centerline.

Place a striped ball on the headspot with the stripe facing the end rail. Hit the ball on the stripe above the centerline and it will roll with the stripe in the vertical position all the way down table at any speed. You will be able to do it 10 out of 10 times.

Hit the stripe below center and you can't hold it vertical at different speeds half the time. On short draws it's easy to spin the cueball backwards, but not so easy as the distance between the balls increases.

It's not because the cueball can't be made to spin backwards for a longer distance but it's hard to keep the spin vertical. The harder it's hit the more draw control is possible but then it's harder to overcome the foward motion of the cueball.

dr_dave
01-12-2008, 12:40 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Jal:</font><hr>Dr. Dave,

It looked to me like you have a very good power draw, stiff or otherwise. I wonder how many could do as well or better? Had you used some silicone, it would probably still be bouncing around the table. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif<hr /></blockquote>Thank you; although, I'm sure many people on this forum can do better (even with no elbow drop) and not have a "death grip" during the follow through.

You are right about that silicone spray. It can make almost anybody look impressive (especially on Simonis cloth). Just to be clear, I did not use silicone spray, my cloth is not Simonis, and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express the night before shooting the video. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Regards,
Dave

BigRigTom
01-12-2008, 12:51 PM
Thanks Spiderman!
That did the trick on my Sanyo Xacti HD I do have a "Sports" setting and I can also set the lighting to "Florescent" which also helps.
Now I need to find the time to re-shoot the video and I will then re-post it.

BigRigTom
01-13-2008, 06:17 PM
Thanks to the advise from Dr. Dave and Spiderman I have managed to re-record my power draw and while it is still not great it is certainly a lot better video quality. I think I need to record it to the camera then transfer the file to my computer, edit it to get rid of the junky part (showing me turning the camera on and off - stuff like that) then upload that file to YouTube. That is just really time consuming as I am sure some of you already know.

Anyway...
Here is my latest attempt at recording my power draw.
I reduced the shots to 4 to shorten the length of the video but I think it is important to demonstrate that the object ball is pocketed since a power draw on a missed shot would be a useless thing.
Any constructive criticism will be appreciated.

Misc info:
My cue is a 19.5 oz Viking VX10 with a LePro Medium Hard Tip shaped to the conture of a nickle with the Ultimate Tip Shaper.
My table is an 1974 Brunswick Pro 8' (46" x 92" playing area).
The cloth is Simonis 860
The cue ball is an Aramith Pro Cup Measle Ball
The balls are Primium Aramith Pool and Billiards balls
I use Master Blue Chalk

and I have never used silicone spray on the balls for any reason. I do clean them every once in a while in a Star Automatic Billiard Ball Cleaner which works great!

BigRigTom does a Power Draw on YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlrDHSgER8M)