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Kutter
12-27-2007, 10:34 AM
I recently tested out a cue at a local store. I won't mention the name, but it was in the $300+ range. The cue had a very disturbing feel to it when hit softly. By softly, I mean with the force to hit the CB only the length of the table at the most. It felt like a vibration down near the tip end of the cue. It did not seem to occur when the CB was hit harder.
Now I know this brand has a great reputation, so I doubt it was a flaw in manufacture. There are several things I am guessing, but mostly I think it was due to a new tip and no chalk. If that were the case, the problem would go away as the cue got broken in. Or, perhaps could it simply have had a tip I am not familiar with? I currently use a triangle tip and before that.........who knows, they were cheap.
Any ideas on what could have been causing the vibration? It was bad enough I'm not sure I could stand breaking in that particular cue.

Artemus
12-27-2007, 11:01 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Kutter:</font><hr> I recently tested out a cue at a local store. The cue had a very disturbing feel to it when hit softly.

It was bad enough I'm not sure I could stand breaking in that particular cue. <hr /></blockquote>

You just said the magic word that should only matter to you and you alone. <font color="red"> DISTURBING! </font color>

If that's what you felt, why would you even consider "breaking" it in? I don't know how a cue gets broken in any more than a tight pair of shoes that's crimping your feet like a vise from the start. Either way, you'll be in agony.

DeadCrab
12-27-2007, 12:29 PM
When I encounter this, it is usually because I did not screw the joint together snugly.

If that doesn't solve it, something is cracked or loose.

Heretic
12-27-2007, 12:32 PM
If you cannot stand it, then don't sweat it. Some cues just do not feel good to some people. If you are not comfortable with it, your game will suffer Keep trying until you find one you are happy with

Kutter
01-01-2008, 02:58 AM
Thanks for the replies. After further reading, I came upon a post that mentioned that some players like the feel of vibration when hitting the ball. It even mentioned that they use that, as feedback of their shot. Some players would not use a cue that would not give them that feedback.
Could this be what I felt? If so, I am definitely not in this group of players. Is this something common to certain "brands"? If so, I want to steer away from even considering them.
I know the shaft was screwed in correctly. The brand is one that gets recommended around here at least enough to find it hard to believe they would allow a defective cue to leave their shop. Artemus is correct, I would not think of buying this cue, if that "vibration/feel" is designed on purpose for this cue.

To be honest, not having bought a cue in 30+ years, I am only guessing what my preferences are. I prefer light to heavy, the lighter the better. To me, a light cue feels like an extension of my arm. A heavy cue feels like a tool in my hand that must be worked. I like 12mm over 13mm, and I have no clue as to why. I am open to using a 13mm, and from what I have read, until I become a better player, a 13 would more than likely help me. I know nothing about tips. Oh, I have read a lot about them, but reading will only go so far, I'll have to use different styles to find whats right for my type of shooting. Speaking of shooting styles, As I have mentioned before, most of my shots are very light with only enough force to make the shot. Sometimes, in order to get the CB to get to where I need it for the next shot, I have no choice but to use more force. I am comfortable shooting draw, follow and both english shots. Very few shots I make would not involve at least one of those. Would that type of shooting steer me toward any particular tip?

I realize that no cue will in itself, make me a better player. I also know that confidence in a cue, can. Confidence can come with knowing I have the cue that has the design to match how I shoot.

When reading posts here and reading instructive articles, I find that most of my shots have names. A billiard shot for instance. Been doing that all my life, never knew it had a name. In that light, please forgive me for having such a hard time explaining my questions. I am here to learn as much as I can from those who have the experience and knowledge.

pooltchr
01-01-2008, 08:02 AM
It is almost impossible to tell anyone what brand or type of cue will work best for them. However, based on what you say about your playing style, you might want to try a cue with a radial pin wood to wood joint. I generally play more finesse rather than power shots, and have found this joint is a good fit for my style of play.
Steve

Cornerman
01-01-2008, 08:04 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Kutter:</font><hr> Some players would not use a cue that would not give them that feedback.
Could this be what I felt? If so, I am definitely not in this group of players. Is this something common to certain "brands"? If so, I want to steer away from even considering them.<hr /></blockquote>Then this is the time to mention the brand. Some brands have a lot of this type of feedback, while others have very little. It's all personal preference. But, if you name the brand, you'll get a good indication whether this is normal for that brand.

Fred

1Time
01-02-2008, 02:42 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Kutter:</font><hr> Thanks for the replies. After further reading, I came upon a post that mentioned that some players like the feel of vibration when hitting the ball. It even mentioned that they use that, as feedback of their shot. Some players would not use a cue that would not give them that feedback.<hr /></blockquote>
Preferring a vibration in a cue cannot possibly be the norm. And I can't imagine how anyone could possibly use such "feedback" to their advantage. I prefer a cue that's hit feels solid. This lends to the illusion that the cue is an organic part of me which helps me impose my will upon the balls. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Kutter:</font><hr> Could this be what I felt? If so, I am definitely not in this group of players. Is this something common to certain "brands"? If so, I want to steer away from even considering them.<hr /></blockquote>
Yes, you got a hold of a cue without a solid hit. Some cues hit better than others, but choosing or avoiding a brand is not the best way to find a good hitting cue. The best way is to use the cue and compare it to others.
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Kutter:</font><hr>To be honest, not having bought a cue in 30+ years, I am only guessing what my preferences are.<hr /></blockquote>
If you want to better determine your preferences, you will need to compare several different cues, weights, shaft diameters, tips, etc. And that will only determine what your preferences are for now. With improvement in your skill level and continued comparisons of other cues, your preferences likely will change. And the less confident you are of your current preferences, the more likely it is you soon will be wanting a different cue. If instead you'd rather just buy a cue and be done with it (like most people), then go for it and take your best shot at the specs you want in your cue.
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Kutter:</font><hr>I prefer light to heavy, the lighter the better. To me, a light cue feels like an extension of my arm. A heavy cue feels like a tool in my hand that must be worked. I like 12mm over 13mm, and I have no clue as to why. I am open to using a 13mm, and from what I have read, until I become a better player, a 13 would more than likely help me. <hr /></blockquote>
If you will be buying online without first trying the cue and you're wanting a cue lighter than 18 oz., then I suggest a Viking cue for under $200 from seyberts.com. You can choose the cue's weight from 16 oz. and up in 1/4 oz. increments, the shaft's diameter in 1/4 mm increments, and the tip from a wide selection. That's pretty much the easy way to go cue shopping and that may be best for you since it seems cues under 18 oz. are harder to find.
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Kutter:</font><hr>I know nothing about tips. Oh, I have read a lot about them, but reading will only go so far, I'll have to use different styles to find whats right for my type of shooting. Speaking of shooting styles, As I have mentioned before, most of my shots are very light with only enough force to make the shot. Sometimes, in order to get the CB to get to where I need it for the next shot, I have no choice but to use more force. I am comfortable shooting draw, follow and both english shots. Very few shots I make would not involve at least one of those. Would that type of shooting steer me toward any particular tip?<hr /></blockquote>
Since you have no developed preferences for a tip, I suggest going with one of a medium hardness. Of those available through seyberts.com, I suggest narrowing your choice down to one of these medium tips: the Hercules 2, the Talisman medium, and the Everest. The only thing I know about these three tips is what I've read online, and of these 3 the Hercules 2 probably is the softest and the Everest is probably the hardest. I'd probably go with the Hercules 2 or Talisman medium, but if I compared these 3 tips I just as easily could find I prefer the Everest. And these 3 are not the only good medium tips from which to choose through seyberts.com. They're just the medium tips I would consider trying on my cue. I think for your soft hitting style of play you'd risk loosing some "feel" on your shots by going with a much softer or harder tip.

Another thing you might want to consider is buying an extra Viking shaft. You could order its diameter to be slightly different than your first shaft. And, you could even have a different tip put on the second shaft.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Kutter:</font><hr>I realize that no cue will in itself, make me a better player. <hr /></blockquote>
The cue / tip / weight / shaft / etc. can make a huge difference in one's game - and that in a very real way can mean the difference between winning and losing. But if you suck at playing pool (not saying you do), no cue will change that. However, what you should want is a cue that compliments your game and does not hold back your improvement.
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Kutter:</font><hr>I also know that confidence in a cue, can. Confidence can come with knowing I have the cue that has the design to match how I shoot.<hr /></blockquote>
No, you've got it ass backwards here. Confidence should come from shooting good with your cue. Confidence in a cue existing prior to shooting good with it is a delusion. Confidence should not come from having a cue that's based on some predetermined specifications. You may have hope in a cue that you've predetermined its specifications, but confidence in that cue should only come from shooting good with it... at least eventually.

Snapshot9
01-05-2008, 07:24 AM
My recommendations:
1) Don't know what your budget is, but I would wait or spend about $500 to get a decent cue, and I would go to a cuemaker.
2) Cuemakers will generally let you hit with 'stock' cues of theirs, or with customs as long as you don't chalk them.
3) If you are going to stay in $300 range, Lucasi is a good starter cue. If in $5-600 range, look at Schon cues for a production type cue, which Schon is really not, but is referred to as that anymore.
4) Sneaky Pete type cues, both production and custom, are usually a good buy, and hit as good as cues 3-4 times as much.

Some billiard websites offer free cases with the purchase of a cue, and sometimes cuemakers will too. Check into your town for a cuemaker, and go visit his shop, even if you have to drive 50-80 miles, it is worth it.

Good luck in your search. Some Billiard Websites are:
Pooldawg (http://www.pooldawg.com)
Billiard Warehouse (http://www.billiardwarehouse.com)
Platinum billiards (http://www.platinumbilliards.com)

<font color="blue">Do this: go to www.google.com (http://www.google.com)
click on maps at top left. In search block in top middle, type 'Cuemakers in St. Louis', then when red teardrops with letters come on map, click in each one to get business information and/or directions to it.</font color>

I saw from Google you are just a suburb south of St. Louis.

Kutter
01-05-2008, 11:49 AM
Thanks for the replies.
I went yesterday to the largest dealer in this area, or at least the most well known. I am sure they did their best, but I was a bit disappointed. Although I was able to test out the feel on many cues, all were used and none were make/model I was interested in buying. I wasn't hitting object balls or anything, just hitting CB off one rail the length of the table. Obviously, I wouldn't have used chalk, but still, no new cues could be tested. I find this was almost a waste of time, if I wasn't able to shoot the actual sticks I would be buying. I did find 3 cues that felt right. A older Bludworth (red dot), a Nova, which I had never heard of, and (hold onto your seat) a Dale Perry. All were in the $500/600 range. None of these I bought, as I really had my heart set on a new cue. I was very interested in a Schon, but even though this place advertises as the only Schon dealer in this area, they only had one and I wasn't impressed with it.
I understand that a new cue is a new cue and they wouldn't want it played with too much or they couldn't call it a new cue. However, I feel that if no chalk is involved, and a buyer is only shooting it a few times the length of the table an back, they would be more receptive to someone who is getting ready to pull out $500/1000 in cash for a cue.
If all I am allowed to shoot are used cues, I might as well take my chances on buying online, where the prices can be far lower. As you can tell, I was very disappointed and feel like I am starting all over again in my search.
One more thing. This "vibration" I was talking about in the beginning topic post, was slight, but still noticeable in every cue I tried when hitting softly. Surely I could not have gotten so lucky decades ago when I bought this cue I have been using, as it has no vibration. Could it be something in my mechanics instead of the cue that for some reason isn't showing in the old cue?

Kutter
01-05-2008, 11:54 AM
Sorry Cornerman, I must have missed your reply before. The cue I had tested, mentioned in the first post, was a McDermott M2K2 (Ring).

1Time
01-05-2008, 02:41 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Kutter:</font><hr> I wasn't hitting object balls or anything, just hitting CB off one rail the length of the table. <hr /></blockquote>
I suggest before heading out to to shop for a cue, you call ahead and ask what size of table they have for you to shoot on with their new and used cues to help you select your next cue. And ask whether they allow their customers to shoot a cue ball and pocket a few object balls. And ask whether they will allow you to chalk their cues. Off hand I don't recall any that allowed me to chalk their new cues, but I don't consider that necessary to get the feel for a cue. Just shoot mostly in the center of the cue ball to get a feel for how it hits and pocket a few balls. If they don't have a table and balls for their customers to use, then tell them that's their loss because you're not going to buy a cue without first seeing how it hits. If enough people tell them this, they'll lose business or they'll let their customers hit balls. Some places will let you buy the cue, chalk it, and shoot with it for a week or so, and let you return it less a restocking fee that's a percentage of the purchase price. That could be a good option if you buy a cue and then later determine you don't like it. The biggest thing that's going to make a difference as to whether you like your new cue after choosing it based on how well it hits without chalk, is its tip. Before absorbing a restocking fee, I'd rather try a few new tips in an effort to change how it shoots for me.
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Kutter:</font><hr>
If all I am allowed to shoot are used cues, I might as well take my chances on buying online, where the prices can be far lower. <hr /></blockquote>
As you already pointed out you determined you did not like a particular Schon cue and you did like a couple used cues. That shows you were able to tell differences between cues by just hitting the cue ball. You can't do that by shopping online.

The cheaper way to shop is to find exactly or very nearly what you want in a shop or as a used cue and then buy what you want online. I've walked out of many cue shops over the years totally dissatisfied with their selection. And so what I've concluded from that is if I don't have a pretty good idea of what I want in a cue and am at least somewhat familiar with it, I stand a pretty good chance of not liking the cue that comes in the mail. And so if I come across a new or used cue that I like and want, I would have no problem with ordering one online with the weight and tip of my choice. And I probably would not dare having the diameter of the shaft changed by more than 1/4 mm.

Most people don't have it in them to take much care in the selection of their cue. And I'm not saying you won't like what cue you order "blindly" online; you very well may. It's just more of a risk going that route.
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Kutter:</font><hr>Could it be something in my mechanics instead of the cue that for some reason isn't showing in the old cue? <hr /></blockquote>
No.

Heretic
01-05-2008, 02:47 PM
Do a little research into which manufacturer makes a shaft that hits the way you feel comfortable with.
Schon sticks do not work well for me personally. They have a very short pro taper, and a harder hit. I shoot softly, so I prefer the feel of the longer pro taper or the low squirt cues. This does not mean I think there is anything wrong with the quality of Schon cues, it just means that they are not right for me.
I know that it really is not possible to buy a better game, but I do believe that my game got better when I found a shaft that worked best for the way I shoot.

1Time
01-05-2008, 02:56 PM
Speaking of Schon cues, I used to have a 1 piece Schon cue. I bought it cause of it's solid hit. The diameter of its grip was smaller than normal and its balance was a little too forward for me, but it was a very good hitting cue. I sold it cause I needed a 2 piece cue.

The only negative experience I've had with a cue that I bought was with a lower priced McDermott back in the 80's, but I think that was mostly because I didn't know what I was wanting in a cue when I bought it.

Heretic
01-05-2008, 03:57 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote 1Time:</font><hr>

The only negative experience I've had with a cue that I bought was with a lower priced McDermott back in the 80's, but I think that was mostly because I didn't know what I was wanting in a cue when I bought it. <hr /></blockquote>

I wish I could narrow my mistakes in this area down to one. I have quite a number of sticks that I have bought, and now do not use.......It took me years to figure out that I like a narrow butt, and a light, neutral weight.

Sid_Vicious
01-05-2008, 04:34 PM
"I was very interested in a Schon"

Then I suggest that is absolutely what you want to buy. I have never owned a Schon, but everyone I hit with were great, and that vibration you mentioned earlier,,,never in any Schon I ever hit with.

Here's what I'd do. Price a Schon in a retail store, then do an internet Google search and find a reputable seller, and get one, as long as they have some kind of return if not satisfied policy. I sincerely do not think you will need that policy as long as the shipper doesn't screw it up, but it gives you a peace of mind.

I agree, the testing at local billiard stores is lame, but I will also add that buying a used cue for a lot less, makes sense to me, and if a local seller really wants a sale, chalk it up. You'll like your Schon, no matter the avenue you take for the buy...sid

DeadCrab
01-05-2008, 05:07 PM
When I feel vibration, it is telling me that I botched my hit on the cue ball.

9baller
01-05-2008, 05:14 PM
on one of my cheap k-mart cues i get a vibration like that and it drives me crazy!!! i unsrewed it and put the shaft to the side.why i dont throw it away i dont know /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
but i dont see how anyone can handle that,even on a cheap 17 dollor cue,let alone a $300 + cue
i,mm not quite sure we`re talking the same thing here,but it sounds the same /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Sid_Vicious
01-05-2008, 05:31 PM
Does Walmart sell a cue which does not have a screw on tip? sid

Artemus
01-06-2008, 08:18 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DeadCrab:</font><hr>
When I feel vibration, it is telling me that I botched my hit on the cue ball. <hr /></blockquote>

The only way I can see how you would feel a vibration from botching your hit would be a terrible miscue. Even if your stroke was so bad that it hit one full tip off from where you were aiming but within the miscue circle on the CB, it should be solid.

Kutter, I think the advice about wood to wood is good. It's a softer hit. You also might want to consider an Elk Master tip or other soft one piece leather instead of a laminated tip. I've never hit with an OB-1 but from what every body has stated, it's a very soft hitting shaft and it gives minimal feedback through vibration.

Fenwick
01-06-2008, 03:14 PM
Just getting back into the game.
After refurbishing 3 old cues including a McDermott D Series and buying 2 new cues I found out I liked my 1960's vintage Viking the best? So out of the 5 Cues and 7 shafts I now own it's the oldest and cheapest Cue that I can run a rack or three with? Finding a Cue is like finding a good pair of shoes. I know why I don't like them but I can't exlpain why they feel good.