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SKennedy
01-04-2008, 10:59 AM
I decided to get a "real" lesson and Scott Lee came through my area about 3 weeks ago and worked on my stroke. I did not have an opportunity to incorporate or practice what he taught me as we were just starting league play-offs and did not want to change things too much. I am just now starting to use what Scott taught me and I really like the results. I still have a ways to go and need to work on drills, etc., but even my teammates can see the difference in my game. I am running the table more often and my "new" stroke has enabled me to use draw much more consistently. Now, I am not afraid to use draw on a more dificult shot whereas before I was forced to use follow and use more rails, etc. than I wanted...not to mention the necessity to sometimes avoid traffic. Anyway, I am actually excited about my game and the prospects for improving my game have significantly increased, even though I have been playing for years.

I am posting here not to brag on my skills....the shots I really got excited about the last 2 nights would be nothing to execute for most of you....or to necessarily brag on Scott Lee...as I'm sure there are other excellent instructors out there. My point is this...when I was trying to get others set up to take lessons and take advantage of Scott being in town I met quite a bit of resistance. Many scoffed at me and claimed I didn't need any lessons, etc., and indicated it would be a waste of time and money. They were wrong. I thought I had a decent stroke and have received compliments over the years about my stroke. Well...they just didn't know what a good stroke really is. Those of you who are debating spending the money on lessons, or are straddling the fence on the subject, I just want to encourage you to take the jump and get a lesson. I got much more out of the time I spent with Scott than I ever did watching any videos or reading any literature...although they certainly have their place and merit also.

Thanks to Scott, now whenever I hear someone refering to a player "letting his stroke out," I understand a little more about what that means.

Deeman3
01-04-2008, 11:22 AM
Nice summary of your experience with Scott. Now get your butt on down to Derby City and put it to use. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

SKennedy
01-04-2008, 11:37 AM
5 more years of serious practice and a few more lessons with Scott and maybe I'll be worthy of a trip....

I do want to make it within the next couple of years. Sounds like fun!

1Time
01-04-2008, 02:29 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SKennedy:</font><hr> Those of you who are debating spending the money on lessons, or are straddling the fence on the subject, I just want to encourage you to take the jump and get a lesson. I got much more out of the time I spent with Scott than I ever did watching any videos or reading any literature...although they certainly have their place and merit also.

Thanks to Scott, now whenever I hear someone refering to a player "letting his stroke out," I understand a little more about what that means. <hr /></blockquote>
You've got to have an instructor that knows what he or she's doing before it's bound to be worth it, and that's with any level of student.

I've not heard the expression "letting his stroke out" before, but I can imagine it means to extend the existing mechanical and / or learned limitations of one's stroke.

SKennedy, I would be interested in more specifics of what you have changed or have been tasked to change as a result of your lesson. Thanks

SKennedy
01-04-2008, 04:24 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote 1Time:</font><hr> SKennedy, I would be interested in more specifics of what you have changed or have been tasked to change as a result of your lesson. Thanks <hr /></blockquote>

It may be hard for me to do that question justice in written form, and I'm not sure that would be fair to Scott either. However, here are the basics:
1) I had good components to my stroke....no really major problems. However, there were certain issues with my stroke that were visually noteable to someone like Scott and not to me. In addition to the visual indicators, the problems with my stroke were evident in the results. In this case, draw. When I was asked to draw the cue ball a table length I could do it. But if asked to draw it back 1 ft, it would do anything between stop and table length.
2) I was not fully stroking and was shortening my stroke.
3) I was gripping the cue stick too tightly...not before the actual stroke (I was very loose), but during the stroke my knuckles were white and upon "finishing" were parallel with the floor.
4) I was trying to muscle the cue stick through the shot and forcing a "follow through," which I was doing quite well. I was tense with both hand and bicep.
5) My forearm at point of contact with tip and cue ball was well forward of perpendicular to the floor.

There were some other minor issues, but these 5 were the ones I needed to work on. Now, when I watch others, I look for these items. I note that while the pros do have some varying degree of form, etc., for the most part they do have consistent good qualities about their stroke. I'm sure the deficiencies I exhibited are very common for us average players.

Not sure of the reason you asked me for this info, but this is all I'll give out of respect for Scott and other instructors. If he wants to provide you with information he can. As to anyone agreeing with any specifics on the proper stroke or not, I'll just say that so far it has helped me and I can already tell that with more practice and drills it will really be of benefit to me. And, I'm very hard-headed about changing things. The way I've been playing has suited me fairly well over the years. I did not change because Scott told me to or point out who strokes this way, or not, etc. I changed, or in the process of changing, my stroke because Scott used logic to explain to me why I was or wasn't getting certain results. My inconsistencies had to do with the consequences of my stroke. When I modified my stroke, I could immediately see the benefit, even if it did not feel "normal" to me...yet! I learned that a good follow through is not something you make happen; it is the simple result of a good stroke.
As for "letting your stroke out..." I was not finishing my stroke. I would if I was hitting the cue ball with more force. One thing I learned was that generally speaking, you always "finish" the stroke. Speed of the cue ball is a result of the speed of the stroke...not by my application of more bicep. If I'm "babying" the cue stick and I'm not finishing, then I'm not letting my stroke out....if I'm finishing and allowing my stroke speed to dicate the travel distance of the cue ball, then I'm letting my stroke out. Scott did not use that phrase. That is just something I've heard over the years.
Now that my stroke has improved, my shape and shot making ability has improved. The next big thing I need to work on will be shot speed.

I'm just an average player. But, I do play better against a more skillful player. That is likely a consequence of my focus (more like fear). If I play a higher skilled level player and they take me lightly, they'll get beat. My point is that I'm no expert on stroke, or anything else...and one lesson with Scott, no matter how wonderful....does not make me an expert. I'm just saying it was time and money well spent...at least for me. And, I don't think Scott tasked me to do anything. He may have encouraged me, but I'm sure he could tell my deameanor doesn't meld well with "task-masters" (unless they are female and great looking).

1Time
01-04-2008, 07:04 PM
I'd say you definitely got your money's worth. That's what a first good lesson should be. It seems to me you're at the beginning of taking your game to a higher level.

How do you now grip the cue when stroking a shot? Is it with the thumb, index finger and the web between them? Or, is the palm of your hand and all fingers gripping the cue? Or, does the cue rest closer to your finger tips and if so which fingers remain in contact with the cue throughout the stroke?

pooltchr
01-04-2008, 07:59 PM
Having taught with Scott, I know the value of what he can teach, but the success of your lessons is also due, in part, to your willingness to open your mind. When an instructor shows a student something, and also explains the "why" factor, it adds a lot to the learning experience. Several of us teach (some might say preach) SPF-F as the fundamental stroke, but it really makes sense when you understand why. Scott also has a way of spotting those little things that can make a big difference. But your willingness to try something different "even if it doesn't feel natural at first" is a huge reason you are seeing the results.
Congratulations to both you and Scott for successful session.
Steve

1Time
01-04-2008, 11:14 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> Several of us teach (some might say preach) SPF-F as the fundamental stroke, but it really makes sense when you understand why. <hr /></blockquote>

What grip or grips do you teach?

CarolNYC
01-05-2008, 06:02 AM
[ QUOTE ]
The way I've been playing has suited me fairly well over the years. I did not change because Scott told me to or point out who strokes this way, or not, etc. I changed, or in the process of changing, my stroke because Scott used logic to explain to me why I was or wasn't getting certain results. My inconsistencies had to do with the consequences of my stroke. When I modified my stroke, I could immediately see the benefit, even if it did not feel "normal" to me...yet <hr /></blockquote>

Thats excellent! You went to Scott with an open mind and WANTED to learn,so,you learned-to me, even if you learned just ONE thing, you improved
And those things that didnt feel "normal" will,soon /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Being taught isnt just about the teacher-its about the student ,too-its a two-way street-outstanding!
Not to get off subject,but, I went to Scotts website and noticed he's a protege of Willie Jopling-I had the wonderful opportunity last August to spend 3 days watching him at VF-what a great guy!
Good job!

Carol

randyg
01-05-2008, 07:07 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote 1Time:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> Several of us teach (some might say preach) SPF-F as the fundamental stroke, but it really makes sense when you understand why. <hr /></blockquote>

What grip or grips do you teach? <hr /></blockquote>

Grips that match the players hands. Comfortable, Consistant and remains the same throughout the stroke.....SPF=randyg

1Time
01-05-2008, 10:10 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote randyg:</font><hr>Grips that match the players hands. Comfortable, Consistant and remains the same throughout the stroke.....SPF=randyg <hr /></blockquote>
Thanks, that sounds pretty good. I would add that it also should be one that best facilitates a consistent pivoting action which best helps make shots. For me one grip will work better on some shots while another grip work better on other shots. All together I use 3 different grips with 1 having a couple variations. The best grip for an individual and the shot can make a substantial difference in one's consistency and game.

Scott Lee
01-05-2008, 10:19 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SKennedy:</font><hr>Not sure of the reason you asked me for this info, but this is all I'll give out of respect for Scott and other instructors. <hr /></blockquote>

First of all, thank you SKennedy for the kind words. I never ask any student to say anything about their experience, here or anywhere else. That said, it is always gratifying when a student can take what we teach them, and see dramatic improvement with it's implementation. We KNOW what works...but as pooltchr said, it's up to the student to make the decision to apply it, and more important, stick with it until it works for them.

Second, I was the one who suggested not trying to immediately begin implementing what Steve was taught...as he was going into a session-end competitive cycle, and the potential to disrupt his (up-to-now) "normal" competitive routine, could be disconcerting to him and his teammates. I suggested beginning work on the lesson specifics AFTER he completed his league play...which he has done.

Third...I have absolutely NO qualms about any student mentioning anything about what I teach them. It is NOT secret information, nor proprietary (imo). We teach things that honestly are just common sense, using the student's body style and mannerisms, to fit them with a proper setup and delivery system. For most students it feels anywhere from slightly uncomfortable to TOTALLY unnatural. However, it becomes their choice whether to stick with it long enough for the new learned information to replace old conditioned behavior.

No matter how much information is passed along, whether from a book, a video/dvd, watching (trying to copycat) other players, or getting advice from anyone...NOTHING replaces having a one-on-one experience with a qualified instructor!

Scott Lee

Paul_Mon
01-05-2008, 11:48 AM
Steve, I snipped the following from your post and thought it brings up something that many players have trouble with.

<font color="red">my "new" stroke has enabled me to use draw much more consistently. Now, I am not afraid to use draw on a more dificult shot whereas before I was forced to use follow and use more rails, etc. than I wanted </font color>

Way too many players choose, even with ball in hand, to draw to position vs. follow to position. Given the choice of the two I will always follow to position. In general a natural rolling cue ball is going to be much easier to control. Don't misunderstand, I'm not saying to use multiple rails when no rails will get the job done. I'm just amazed how so many people use draw. Maybe it's because it is more fun to draw the ball.

best regards........Paul

1Time
01-05-2008, 03:07 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Paul_Mon:</font><hr> Maybe it's because it is more fun to draw the ball. <hr /></blockquote>
No, for most it's simply because they have yet to learn the benefits of using follow and the rails to get position.

Sid_Vicious
01-05-2008, 04:46 PM
"Way too many players choose, even with ball in hand, to draw to position vs. follow to position. Given the choice of the two I will always follow to position"

It took me many, many games while playing with a good friend who's an A+ player whom gave me that advice(free) of follow instead of draw, for it to sink in. Still I use a lot of draw, just because it is fun. Under preasure, I revert back to common sense, and yet I admit that he dabbling with all that draw does creep into your natural game alot. I don't take this game all that serious anyways, so I shoot what I like. The natural draw to the middle of the table, imo, is sometimes simpler than running two rails with follow, even with BIH...sid

9baller
01-05-2008, 06:14 PM
very cool story /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif i,mm glad you were smart enough to take advice from someone that may know alittle more then you (no offence to you of course)
i would love to get some lessons myself,but i have no idea how much they are or where to find a decent instructor. but like what was replyed to me in my "first cue" thread,i think maybe instead of spending hundreds on a facny first time cue,which i dont really have at the moment anyway,i sould be thinking of geting a basic,but nice,cue and look to get some lessons /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif
do you have any sujestions where to look for a decent instructor the is resonabley priced?

wolfdancer
01-05-2008, 06:52 PM
Paul, do you know, or remember, Mark Edwards, from Buffalo?
Mark is one heck of a player,runs a rack in under 2 minutes, and also prefers to follow, instead of drawing the ball....which he can do easily. Mark has a straight pool background; don't know if that has anything to do with it???

wolfdancer
01-05-2008, 06:55 PM
I thought that you taught the Vardon grip?
Steve's got the 7 ball for life...you get 2 a side....but you have to hit back from the blues with me /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Paul_Mon
01-06-2008, 09:17 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> Paul, do you know, or remember, Mark Edwards, from Buffalo?
Mark is one heck of a player,runs a rack in under 2 minutes, and also prefers to follow, instead of drawing the ball....which he can do easily. Mark has a straight pool background; don't know if that has anything to do with it??? <hr /></blockquote>

No I don't know him. I mostly stay close to home, Rochester. But traditional straight pool players do keep it as simple as possible.

Paul

Fran Crimi
01-06-2008, 09:50 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Paul_Mon:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> Paul, do you know, or remember, Mark Edwards, from Buffalo?
Mark is one heck of a player,runs a rack in under 2 minutes, and also prefers to follow, instead of drawing the ball....which he can do easily. Mark has a straight pool background; don't know if that has anything to do with it??? <hr /></blockquote>

No I don't know him. I mostly stay close to home, Rochester. But traditional straight pool players do keep it as simple as possible.

Paul <hr /></blockquote>

Hey Paul,

Good point you brought up about the use of topspin as opposed to backspin. I had to learn how to 'un-use' backspin due to my 14.1 background. 14.1 Players use a lot of backspin to hold the cb in tight spaces and restrict cb movement, which makes it a natural thing to do to think of using low before high on any given shot.

I've noticed that players who learned pool by playing 9 Ball are more prone to let the ball roll than players coming from a 14.1 background or being taught by 14.1 players.

Also, climate is an issue for many players as well. If you play in a humid climate, it's more likely that you will try to roll the cb, like the Filippinos do, because on a wet cloth, draw is greatly reduced. Draw is also reduced on poor playing conditions, such as with a loose cloth.

One of the few exceptions I've ever seen was Jack Colavita who could roll the cue ball with the best of them, who came from a 14.1 background. But he was a rarity and played just as good 9 Ball as he did 14.1. It was Jack who taught me how to roll the ball.

Fran

Paul_Mon
01-06-2008, 08:03 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr> [
Also, climate is an issue for many players as well. If you play in a humid climate, it's more likely that you will try to roll the cb, like the Filippinos do, because on a wet cloth, draw is greatly reduced. Draw is also reduced on poor playing conditions, such as with a loose cloth.



Fran

<hr /></blockquote>

Fran, Exactly what I was trying to point out in the thread about power draw. Conditions play a HUGE part in what can and can not be done. I'm actually spoiled in that my regular pool hall has new 760. I enjoy playing on new cloth but the reality is that most people play on less than ideal conditions.

Paul

Qtec
01-07-2008, 05:00 AM
Good post S, seems that you were very attent and got a lot out of the lesson.
[ QUOTE ]
1) I had good components to my stroke....no really major problems. However, there were certain issues with my stroke that were visually noteable to someone like Scott and not to me. In addition to the visual indicators, the problems with my stroke were evident in the results. In this case, draw. When I was asked to draw the cue ball a table length I could do it. But if asked to draw it back 1 ft, it would do anything between stop and table length.
2) I was not fully stroking and was shortening my stroke. <hr /></blockquote>

Exactly. I suspect you were trying to control the draw by hitting the same spot on the QB and varying the speed. Another way you can control ,in this case shorten, the draw is by just hitting the QB at the same speed but striking higher.
Rule No 1 is that you must release the cue , not hang on to it, try and slow it down.

Qtec............
example (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVmmRG0Bts8)

Fran Crimi
01-07-2008, 10:00 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Paul_Mon:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr> [
Also, climate is an issue for many players as well. If you play in a humid climate, it's more likely that you will try to roll the cb, like the Filippinos do, because on a wet cloth, draw is greatly reduced. Draw is also reduced on poor playing conditions, such as with a loose cloth.



Fran

<hr /></blockquote>

Fran, Exactly what I was trying to point out in the thread about power draw. Conditions play a HUGE part in what can and can not be done. I'm actually spoiled in that my regular pool hall has new 760. I enjoy playing on new cloth but the reality is that most people play on less than ideal conditions.

Paul
<hr /></blockquote>

Yup, you're right.

Wait till your 760 gets worn. It'll be like trying to draw the ball directly on the slate.

Here's hoping your poolroom changes the cloth before it gets to that point. I remember some places in NY that would let the cloth go months longer than they should. It was a real challenge to play there.

Fran

SKennedy
01-07-2008, 10:21 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote 1Time:</font><hr> It seems to me you're at the beginning of taking your game to a higher level.

How do you now grip the cue when stroking a shot? Is it with the thumb, index finger and the web between them? Or, is the palm of your hand and all fingers gripping the cue? Or, does the cue rest closer to your finger tips and if so which fingers remain in contact with the cue throughout the stroke? <hr /></blockquote>

I might get to a higher level, but at my age and hard-headedness, I don't think the stairway climbs very far.

As to my grip....I have a loose, relaxed grip using mostly my middle finger...not toward the finger tip, but closer to palm. However, by the end of my stroke I was gripping the cue tightly with all fingers..at the base of the fingers. I had no idea I was choking my stick to death!

SKennedy
01-07-2008, 10:30 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote CarolNYC:</font><hr> Not to get off subject,but, I went to Scotts website and noticed he's a protege of Willie Jopling-I had the wonderful opportunity last August to spend 3 days watching him at VF-what a great guy!
Good job!

Carol <hr /></blockquote>

A chance to show my ignorance....I've heard of Janice, but not Willie.

SKennedy
01-07-2008, 10:39 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Scott Lee:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote SKennedy:</font><hr>Not sure of the reason you asked me for this info, but this is all I'll give out of respect for Scott and other instructors. <hr /></blockquote>

First of all, thank you SKennedy for the kind words. I never ask any student to say anything about their experience, here or anywhere else. That said, it is always gratifying when a student can take what we teach them, and see dramatic improvement with it's implementation. We KNOW what works...but as pooltchr said, it's up to the student to make the decision to apply it, and more important, stick with it until it works for them.

Second, I was the one who suggested not trying to immediately begin implementing what Steve was taught...as he was going into a session-end competitive cycle, and the potential to disrupt his (up-to-now) "normal" competitive routine, could be disconcerting to him and his teammates. I suggested beginning work on the lesson specifics AFTER he completed his league play...which he has done.

Third...I have absolutely NO qualms about any student mentioning anything about what I teach them. It is NOT secret information, nor proprietary (imo). We teach things that honestly are just common sense, using the student's body style and mannerisms, to fit them with a proper setup and delivery system. For most students it feels anywhere from slightly uncomfortable to TOTALLY unnatural. However, it becomes their choice whether to stick with it long enough for the new learned information to replace old conditioned behavior.

No matter how much information is passed along, whether from a book, a video/dvd, watching (trying to copycat) other players, or getting advice from anyone...NOTHING replaces having a one-on-one experience with a qualified instructor!

Scott Lee <hr /></blockquote>

Absolutely you were the one who suggested I refrain from changing my stroke until after our play-off series!
I thanked you for your time immediately following our session and this thread is another way of saying thanks to you in a completely unsolicited manner.
Instruction was great! The student was just trying to keep up his end of the process. After all, why spend the time and money for a lesson and not be open to learning? And if I was going to impress someone with my skills (real or imaginary) I'd pick someone with less knowledge and cheaper.
I just hope that the next time you come through the area I'm ready for another lesson on another subject and have the stroke stuff down well!

SKennedy
01-07-2008, 10:43 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Paul_Mon:</font><hr> Steve, I snipped the following from your post and thought it brings up something that many players have trouble with.

<font color="red">my "new" stroke has enabled me to use draw much more consistently. Now, I am not afraid to use draw on a more dificult shot whereas before I was forced to use follow and use more rails, etc. than I wanted </font color>

Way too many players choose, even with ball in hand, to draw to position vs. follow to position. Given the choice of the two I will always follow to position. In general a natural rolling cue ball is going to be much easier to control. Don't misunderstand, I'm not saying to use multiple rails when no rails will get the job done. I'm just amazed how so many people use draw. Maybe it's because it is more fun to draw the ball.

best regards........Paul

<hr /></blockquote>

I agree. However, there are times when that is not feasible or the alternate is preferred. It is still nice to have draw that is more controllable. I have always been able to "follow" very well.

SKennedy
01-07-2008, 10:48 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote 9baller:</font><hr> very cool story /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif i,mm glad you were smart enough to take advice from someone that may know alittle more then you (no offence to you of course)
i would love to get some lessons myself,but i have no idea how much they are or where to find a decent instructor. but like what was replyed to me in my "first cue" thread,i think maybe instead of spending hundreds on a facny first time cue,which i dont really have at the moment anyway,i sould be thinking of geting a basic,but nice,cue and look to get some lessons /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif
do you have any sujestions where to look for a decent instructor the is resonabley priced? <hr /></blockquote>

Scott Lee travels and at the end of his post in this thread he does provide his website so you can contact him. I do think you are making the right choice.....buy a moderate priced cue stick and leave some money for lessons.

SKennedy
01-07-2008, 12:20 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> Good post S, seems that you were very attent and got a lot out of the lesson.
&lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
1) I had good components to my stroke....no really major problems. However, there were certain issues with my stroke that were visually noteable to someone like Scott and not to me. In addition to the visual indicators, the problems with my stroke were evident in the results. In this case, draw. When I was asked to draw the cue ball a table length I could do it. But if asked to draw it back 1 ft, it would do anything between stop and table length.
2) I was not fully stroking and was shortening my stroke. <hr /></blockquote>

Exactly. I suspect you were trying to control the draw by hitting the same spot on the QB and varying the speed. Another way you can control ,in this case shorten, the draw is by just hitting the QB at the same speed but striking higher.
Rule No 1 is that you must release the cue , not hang on to it, try and slow it down.

Qtec............
example (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVmmRG0Bts8) <hr /></blockquote>

Thanks Q. You are right...I was forcing the cue when I needed to basically "throw" the cue. When I needed to hit the cue ball very lightly, I would try to slow down the cue and control it by stopping, etc. Sometimes this just ended in a mis-hit.

In your example, your first shot using draw is the same shot I refered to in my post about not being able to execute previously. Now I can. Could I use follow to do the same thing....yes! But sometimes you can't..balls in the way, etc. When I made a draw shot like you showed, I got excited and a young friend of mine who is a good player said I can do that what's the big deal? It was a big deal to me because I could not do it unless I got real lucky.

Scott Lee
01-07-2008, 02:37 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SKennedy:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote CarolNYC:</font><hr> Not to get off subject,but, I went to Scotts website and noticed he's a protege of Willie Jopling-I had the wonderful opportunity last August to spend 3 days watching him at VF-what a great guy!
Good job!

Carol <hr /></blockquote>

A chance to show my ignorance....I've heard of Janice, but not Willie. <hr /></blockquote>

Steve...Willie Jopling is a long-time trickshot artist and one-pocket expert. He is 80, a close friend of mine, and has played pool since he was a young boy. He does the trickshot column in Billiards Digest. He also has books, tapes, and dvds on trickshots and One-Pocket. Even at 75, he and I have spent 10 hrs straight on his pool table, playing marathon One-Pocket sessions.

Scott Lee

SKennedy
01-07-2008, 03:24 PM
I just hope I'm still breathing at 75. Sounds like he has been blessed.

pooltchr
01-07-2008, 05:59 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SKennedy:</font><hr> I just hope I'm still breathing at 75. Sounds like he has been blessed. <hr /></blockquote>

Willie is a living legend. While I never met him personally, I had the pleasure of learning one pocket from someone who traveled with him. Clyde McKinney was in his 70's, and he and I used to get together once a week. He had some great stories from his days with Willie, and was also a wealth of knowledge on the game. We played cheap sets ($5 a game), and I knew when I saw Clyde walk through the door, I was going to lose about $20, and gain much more than that in knowledge. The stories he told while we were playing were priceless.

I always look for the oldest guys when I go into a pool room. It's almost always an education!
Steve

Qtec
01-07-2008, 08:33 PM
The point I was trying to make in that video was that all 3 shots are the same. Its just a question of where you hit the QB.
Its the same stroke.

Qtec

CarolNYC
01-08-2008, 05:13 AM
LMAO-Do you mean "Janis Joplin"-Im a big Joplin fan /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

CarolNYC
01-08-2008, 05:44 AM
Well, God bless him /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif
I think he performed 2 or 3x a day-(it was that Superbilliard 2)and believe me, he drew a crowd-
One thing about trickshots, it takes so long to set them up,then ,like, one second and its over,ha ha ha-but,really, a sweet man!
Carol

SKennedy
01-08-2008, 09:46 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote CarolNYC:</font><hr> LMAO-Do you mean "Janis Joplin"-Im a big Joplin fan /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Yes I did....not meaning any disrespect to anyone.
I did see Willie's article in the recent BD.
And while I have many friends who were big Joplin fans, I never really cared for her too much other than about 2 songs. I'm probably not sophisticated enough....

SPetty
01-09-2008, 01:48 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Paul_Mon:</font><hr> Way too many players choose, even with ball in hand, to draw to position vs. follow to position. Given the choice of the two I will always follow to position. In general a natural rolling cue ball is going to be much easier to control. Don't misunderstand, I'm not saying to use multiple rails when no rails will get the job done. I'm just amazed how so many people use draw.<hr /></blockquote>I've heard this type of thing said before, but what is the reason that follow is "better" than draw? If someone can effectively use draw to get position, what advantage does follow have? Given the choice of the two, you will always follow to position. I know a player that given the choice of the two, will always draw to position. If the end result is the same, why is it better to follow than to draw?

SKennedy
01-09-2008, 04:15 PM
IMO....because generally the cue ball is still easier to control. But, I'm no expert (I did whup a poor little 3 last night and felt quilty) and did not stay at a holiday inn express.

Sid_Vicious
01-09-2008, 05:23 PM
In your example's case, they've become good at the draw and position, but the fundamental, global players don't learn control a draw near as well they do for a follow. It may all come back to the originating games of this sport. 15-1 players live and breath on follow(this may be wrong on my eval), billiards of course is predominitely a follow game, and snooker is a real gotcha if a lot of draw is used on those pockets. Having said all that, I am no true reference to preach...I draw way more than I should, but I play 9-ball as you know.

The physics for follow compared to draw requires a lot less mechanics and calculations, especially with the variance in cloth from table to table. Pool is by it;s own fundamentals, a forward stroking game, and any "grandma cells" you may have inherited will join up with the follow by nature.

I love draw and will use it more than I should, mostly during fun games, simply for the "won't cost me anything" practice time. Besides, it pleases me more to see myself hit a well positioned draw leave. BTW SPetty, you still have some of my cash in your pocket from those "Ahem, cheap sets." I gotta get you back on felt somewhere /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif sid

SKennedy
01-09-2008, 05:31 PM
Hey SPetty....how is Fast Eddies in Terrell? Decent tables? Meeting Ed, who is in the area, there tomorrow for a few games. He is north of Dallas and I'm in Tyler so we picked Terrell. If you get a chance, drop by tomorrow and say hello and play some pool. We are trying to meet about 6, but may run a little later, dependent upon traffic.

pooltchr
01-09-2008, 06:45 PM
Since the cue ball is already moving forward, it wants to continue moving forward (Newton's law about an object in motion). While we all have learned how to use back spin to control the cue ball, we are trying to make it do what it doesn't naturally want to do. I believe that is the reason when face with the choice, follow is usually the better option.
Steve

SPetty
01-10-2008, 11:51 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SKennedy:</font><hr> Hey SPetty....how is Fast Eddies in Terrell? Decent tables? Meeting Ed, who is in the area, there tomorrow for a few games. <hr /></blockquote>The last time I was in Fast Eddies, it was nasty. But that was years ago.

When you say "Ed", you mean eg8r?

I am probably playing in a tourney in Plano tonight, so don't expect me. But I'll stop in if I'm there. I'd like to meet you!

SKennedy
01-10-2008, 03:24 PM
Yes....eg8r!
I hope the place is not still nasty.....

SPetty
01-10-2008, 03:29 PM
Damn... Can't believe eg8r's coming to town and didn't call... /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif