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littleCajun
01-09-2008, 03:28 PM
Does anyone think that the revised 8 ball rules will cause confusion at Nationals. Some players will know about them
others will not.

I also think that the new rule on breaking is subjectiable

the new rule states:

2.3 8-BALL BREAK REQUIREMENTS

1. You must use an open break.An open break is defined as: A break in which a forceful stroke is used in an attempt to significantly scatter the balls around the table in a random pattern.

What is defined as a forceful stroke. Maybee I am just a weakling.

randyg
01-09-2008, 04:05 PM
There are three things we have to know to play at the Nationals.

1. Player is responsible for knowing the rules.
2. What time my match starts.
3. Where my table is located.

May the wiser man win.....SPF=randyg

Sid_Vicious
01-09-2008, 04:36 PM
I project that it means that a controlled, soft break, trying to push the minimum of 4 OBs to the rail and leave a semi-1P table, will be restricted. That break is obvious, but very versatile as an advantage in vegas, so I can see the reason for it's removal. Actually though, that break only makes the premier players work harder on run-outs, which IMO makes the Nationals intriguing to watch, rather than simply seeing the most proficient players take a spread table and cream the intermediates. The second ball break with moderate speed still gets most of the advantage back for leaving a cluster-F anyway, so it might be a good time to practice that stroke if you are one of the "4-ball to the rail" defensive break players...sid

SKennedy
01-09-2008, 05:26 PM
A level 6 APA player last night who has been playing for years thought the object ball after being hit by the cue ball had to hit a rail, drive another ball to the rail, or be pocketed. It took 3 of us to convince him (and he was a big untrusting guy) that a ball going to the rail includes the cue ball.

randyg
01-10-2008, 07:16 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote littleCajun:</font><hr> Does anyone think that the revised 8 ball rules will cause confusion at Nationals. Some players will know about them
others will not.

I also think that the new rule on breaking is subjectiable

the new rule states:

2.3 8-BALL BREAK REQUIREMENTS

1. You must use an open break.An open break is defined as: A break in which a forceful stroke is used in an attempt to significantly scatter the balls around the table in a random pattern.

What is defined as a forceful stroke. Maybee I am just a weakling. <hr /></blockquote>

LilCajun: I'm with you on this one. Results, not intent should be the foundation of all rules. They might have made an error.....SPF=randyg

SpiderMan
01-10-2008, 10:26 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote littleCajun:</font><hr> Does anyone think that the revised 8 ball rules will cause confusion at Nationals. Some players will know about them
others will not.

I also think that the new rule on breaking is subjectiable

the new rule states:

2.3 8-BALL BREAK REQUIREMENTS

1. You must use an open break.An open break is defined as: A break in which a forceful stroke is used in an attempt to significantly scatter the balls around the table in a random pattern.

What is defined as a forceful stroke. Maybee I am just a weakling. <hr /></blockquote>

Agreed, this is a poorly-thought-out rule change.

I've always liked the fact that BCA rules seemed to be written to eliminate/avoid arguments and controversy, but this is a step backwards. Now there will be arguments as to whether a player "attempted" to "significantly scatter" the balls.

Perhaps I'll miscue whenever I want to break safe. Even if I get only two balls to the rail, I'm going to claim that I "attempted" to "significantly scatter" them.

SpiderMan

Fran Crimi
01-10-2008, 10:50 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote littleCajun:</font><hr> Does anyone think that the revised 8 ball rules will cause confusion at Nationals. Some players will know about them
others will not.

I also think that the new rule on breaking is subjectiable

the new rule states:

2.3 8-BALL BREAK REQUIREMENTS

1. You must use an open break.An open break is defined as: A break in which a forceful stroke is used in an attempt to significantly scatter the balls around the table in a random pattern.

What is defined as a forceful stroke. Maybee I am just a weakling. <hr /></blockquote>

Agreed, this is a poorly-thought-out rule change.

I've always liked the fact that BCA rules seemed to be written to eliminate/avoid arguments and controversy, but this is a step backwards. Now there will be arguments as to whether a player "attempted" to "significantly scatter" the balls.

Perhaps I'll miscue whenever I want to break safe. Even if I get only two balls to the rail, I'm going to claim that I "attempted" to "significantly scatter" them.

SpiderMan <hr /></blockquote>

These are not the World Standardized Rules that the BCA publishes in it's rule book each year and which have just recently been updated.

That 8 Ball Break rule is a Pool League rule owned by a private company not related to the BCA or the WPA. The confusion has always been that the league is still named the BCA Pool League (BCAPL) even though it is no longer under the jurisdiction of the BCA.

Fran

randyg
01-10-2008, 11:45 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote littleCajun:</font><hr> Does anyone think that the revised 8 ball rules will cause confusion at Nationals. Some players will know about them
others will not.



I also think that the new rule on breaking is subjectiable

the new rule states:

2.3 8-BALL BREAK REQUIREMENTS

1. You must use an open break.An open break is defined as: A break in which a forceful stroke is used in an attempt to significantly scatter the balls around the table in a random pattern.

What is defined as a forceful stroke. Maybee I am just a weakling. <hr /></blockquote>

Agreed, this is a poorly-thought-out rule change.

I've always liked the fact that BCA rules seemed to be written to eliminate/avoid arguments and controversy, but this is a step backwards. Now there will be arguments as to whether a player "attempted" to "significantly scatter" the balls.

Perhaps I'll miscue whenever I want to break safe. Even if I get only two balls to the rail, I'm going to claim that I "attempted" to "significantly scatter" them.

SpiderMan <hr /></blockquote>

These are not the World Standardized Rules that the BCA publishes in it's rule book each year and which have just recently been updated.

That 8 Ball Break rule is a Pool League rule owned by a private company not related to the BCA or the WPA. The confusion has always been that the league is still named the BCA Pool League (BCAPL) even though it is no longer under the jurisdiction of the BCA.

Fran <hr /></blockquote>

One more year before they change their name, I think....SPF=randyg

SPetty
01-10-2008, 12:24 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote randyg:</font><hr> There are three things we have to know to play at the Nationals.

1. Player is responsible for knowing the rules.<hr /></blockquote>It's just a darn shame that our local BCA league LO didn't see fit to help the players learn the new rules by adopting them at the first opportunity.

I think it's difficult to put the onus on the players to each individually go out and find an internet connection and try to find the rules and then to try to learn them without actually having used them. If they find and learn the BCA rules Fran refers to, they'll be using the wrong rules! And I suspect that most of the local league players who will be going to the nationals in Las Vegas may not even know that there are new rules!

And for others, here's larger wording for the 8-ball break rule which does require at least four object balls to hit the cushion. The phrase "open break" is what speaks to the intent of the original post:

2.3 8-Ball Break Requirements

1. You begin the break with ball in hand behind the head string. There is no requirement for the cue ball to contact any particular ball first. You must use an open break and either pocket a ball or drive at least four object balls to the cushions or it is an illegal break. If you pocket a ball you continue to shoot; if you do not pocket a ball or you commit a foul, your inning ends. The game cannot be won or lost on the break.

littleCajun
01-10-2008, 01:17 PM
Here is a link to the Revised Rules to be in play for Nationals.

http://www.playbca.com/Downloads/Rulebook/SignificantRuleChanges/tabid/442/Default.aspx

SPetty
01-10-2008, 02:21 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote littleCajun:</font><hr> Here is a link to the Revised Rules to be in play for Nationals.

http://www.playbca.com/Downloads/Rulebook/SignificantRuleChanges/tabid/442/Default.aspx<hr /></blockquote>Actually they're here:
http://www.playbca.com/Downloads/Rulebook/CompleteRulebook/tabid/372/Default.aspx

Bambu
01-11-2008, 03:11 PM
Interesting that the rule doesnt require you to hit the head ball. Personally, I like the rule anyway....makes for a faster paced game.

Rich R.
01-11-2008, 04:10 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bambu:</font><hr> Interesting that the rule doesnt require you to hit the head ball. Personally, I like the rule anyway....makes for a faster paced game. <hr /></blockquote>
You never did have to hit the head ball.